Goblinworks Blog: Now I Understand the Supernova Scene


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Discussion thread for Goblinworks Blog: Now I Understand the Supernova Scene

Sovereign Court Goblin Squad Member

Is the video supposed to be the Q3 video we saw a while back?

Edit: ignore this. See Mike Hine's post.

Goblin Squad Member

Lots of improvements Goblinworks. Looks like you guys have been burning the midnight oil!!

Quote:
The footage you are going to see was captured in game while our staff adventured in the River Kingdoms. Nothing you are seeing was altered in post-production, and everything you see is in the game working exactly as you see it

Good choice.

Goblin Squad Member

YEAH!!!

Oh wait, cant watch that at work...

Goblinworks

Apparently the video can show up as the Q3 video in the browser due to cache issues, so you may need to refresh the blog page or restart your browser. Zeke had the same issue here, but it looks correct on mine and is set up correctly.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Pretties.

Goblin Squad Member

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Are you guys actually going to use that music for the live game? I guess i have already been conditioned to love it like Pavlov's dog and it would feel weird to hear something else.

Goblin Squad Member

It looks nice, especially the movement. Not a big fan of the placement of the health bars or the announcements of the achievements earned.

Goblin Squad Member

...and The Buggles (sorta) for a title. Sweet.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

I would like to see a version without compression, even if it is a large download.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Love it! I especially like the character models. I'm only bummed out on one thing... I was for sure today would be the day I could give money and become a backer!

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

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<sigh>. Now I really want to play a goblin!

Love the dolmen.

Goblin Squad Member

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Happiness is a Wednesday Blog post!

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Awesome blog post. That castle is amazing!

Goblin Squad Member

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Good looking video, but as Bluddwolf noted, the Health bars and Notifications on the screen are way to big. Are we going to be able to re-arrange the UI items? Still wondering about how movement is to be controlled. Will it be mouse controllable or will it be key-press only? would hope that it is both to allow all players to control action as they see fit. As for me, my hands are somewhat hampered, and it is much easier for me to be able to use one mouse button to control character facing and the other to control movement.

Goblin Squad Member

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It took Darkfall much longer to produce something this solid. I'm very happy with this progress, keep up the good work!

Goblin Squad Member

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Something I think would be nice to see is an indicator on the target that shows if they are in range of your primary weapon. I see the abilities themselves are sort of shaded out if you have something targeted that isn't in their range but I know I very infrequently even look at my skillbars if I have the hotkeys mapped out well enough.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Thanks guys - great to see the progress towards a minimum viable feature set.

Looks sweet.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

I Love The Lighting Effect Of The Torches/Lamps In The Castle Screenshot. With The Screen Not Actually Becoming Darker At Night, Lighting Effects Like Highlights And Shadows Will Go A Long Way In Differentiating Day From Night.

Note: The "Every Word Capitalized" Effect Comes From My Phone's Browser, Not My Typing.

Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:

I Love The Lighting Effect Of The Torches/Lamps In The Castle Screenshot. With The Screen Not Actually Becoming Darker At Night, Lighting Effects Like Highlights And Shadows Will Go A Long Way In Differentiating Day From Night.

Note: The "Every Word Capitalized" Effect Comes From My Phone's Browser, Not My Typing.

Weird effect reading it: "Camel Case".

I really like mobs in the vid: Goblins, Wolves (in the pic), Ogres and can never go wrong with Skeletons (they're an addition). Bit of PvP too!

Goblin Squad Member

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Achievement awarded: Elite Bandit Slayer 1

Goblin Squad Member

Actually, camelCase has an initial lowercase with subsequent words having an initial uppercase.

Goblin Squad Member

Looking good, would love to see some Dwarf love :-) Can't wait to get my hands on it.

Sovereign Court Goblin Squad Member

Just taking a few guesses on the UI:

*red = health
*blue = stamina
*yellow = power
*bottom row of 6 = attacks
*top row of 6 = expendables
*the other two groupings of keys correspond to utilities, consumables/wondrous, situationals, boot+glove
*the left icon of a sword etc is your main hand
*the right icon of a shield or dagger is your off hand (so the rogue with two daggers implies some form of dual wielding already exists)
*presumably the two circles above those would be for implements, though I'm not sure why the right one has the green in it.
*not sure what the green bar in the middle of the attacks bar is

Only the rogue(?) seemed to have a utility feat slotted. I didn't see any character use an expendable when the hotbars were visible, though some of the wizards had them. The cones were huge by mmo standards! Kudos to whoever saw all the other characters grouped up in town and aoe'd them ;)

Also, let me second the request for a downloadable higher resolution version.

Sovereign Court Goblin Squad Member

I'm glad you did not show optimized play. To many people think you are playing wrong if you don't 100% optimize. I'm a casual gamer so am glad you don't have to optimize to be able to play.

Goblinworks Game Designer

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Nihimon wrote:
Achievement awarded: Elite Bandit Slayer 1

Art may have reskinned some bandits as skeletons for the video :) . You'll certainly be an Elite Skeleton Slayer (re-slayer? smasher?) in the actual game when you kill enough skeletons.

Nightdrifter wrote:

Just taking a few guesses on the UI:

*red = health
*blue = stamina
*yellow = power
*bottom row of 6 = attacks
*top row of 6 = expendables
*the other two groupings of keys correspond to utilities, consumables/wondrous, situationals, boot+glove
*the left icon of a sword etc is your main hand
*the right icon of a shield or dagger is your off hand (so the rogue with two daggers implies some form of dual wielding already exists)
*presumably the two circles above those would be for implements, though I'm not sure why the right one has the green in it.
*not sure what the green bar in the middle of the attacks bar is

Only the rogue(?) seemed to have a utility feat slotted. I didn't see any character use an expendable when the hotbars were visible, though some of the wizards had them. The cones were huge by mmo standards! Kudos to whoever saw all the other characters grouped up in town and aoe'd them ;)

The Rogue has a Situational (Evasion). The Fighter has a Utility (Charge) but I don't know if that's visible in the video. We're a little light on non-attack feats at this point.

The visual cone size is currently probably a little enormous relative to the actual size they'll wind up. But exciting!

The green rectangle in between the weapons and the green circle next to the implement are the current way we're indicating whether you have your primary or secondary selected.

Goblin Squad Member

Stephen Cheney wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
Achievement awarded: Elite Bandit Slayer 1

Art may have reskinned some bandits as skeletons for the video :) . You'll certainly be an Elite Skeleton Slayer (re-slayer? smasher?) in the actual game when you kill enough skeletons.

Nightdrifter wrote:

Just taking a few guesses on the UI:

*red = health
*blue = stamina
*yellow = power
*bottom row of 6 = attacks
*top row of 6 = expendables
*the other two groupings of keys correspond to utilities, consumables/wondrous, situationals, boot+glove
*the left icon of a sword etc is your main hand
*the right icon of a shield or dagger is your off hand (so the rogue with two daggers implies some form of dual wielding already exists)
*presumably the two circles above those would be for implements, though I'm not sure why the right one has the green in it.
*not sure what the green bar in the middle of the attacks bar is

Only the rogue(?) seemed to have a utility feat slotted. I didn't see any character use an expendable when the hotbars were visible, though some of the wizards had them. The cones were huge by mmo standards! Kudos to whoever saw all the other characters grouped up in town and aoe'd them ;)

The Rogue has a Situational (Evasion). The Fighter has a Utility (Charge) but I don't know if that's visible in the video. We're a little light on non-attack feats at this point.

The visual cone size is currently probably a little enormous relative to the actual size they'll wind up. But exciting!

The green rectangle in between the weapons and the green circle next to the implement are the current way we're indicating whether you have your primary or secondary selected.

Hi Stephen! Any news on when we can give you guys money? :)

Goblin Squad Member

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Can't honestly say I'm thrilled by the town in the video but since this is even before Alpha is is completely understandable.

The only thing that I can see as a kind of negative is the combat system. I was looking forward to a more movement based system such as Gw2 (in between an action mmo and the standard WoW battle system), but it seems that position doesn't really matter that much for melee? Ranged looks fun, but melee just seems to be the standard stand still and hit what's in front of you sort of look. I understand there is a roll but regular movement should be able to avoid at least some hits while in melee. Such as circular movements around them.

Just my two cents I guess, I was just never really into how WoW did combat to be honest so I'm just a little biased against it.

One last thing I would like to bring up is that I'm not sure showing the enemies mana is really a great thing, it sort of takes away from the suspense of "What is he going to do next?" and replaces it with "His mana is low, so I can probably go in close and kill him" but to each there own. I like suspense a bit more.

Otherwise it's looking like it's coming along well and I'm still looking forward to it. Can't wait for the disguise stuff!

Sovereign Court Goblin Squad Member

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Thanks Stephen!

I thought I saw someone go across the screen in town really fast around the 2:24 mark (going from right to left on the screen), so that might be an example of charge in use.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Stephen Cheney wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
Achievement awarded: Elite Bandit Slayer 1
Art may have reskinned some bandits as skeletons for the video :) . You'll certainly be an Elite Skeleton Slayer (re-slayer? smasher?) in the actual game when you kill enough skeletons.

Is that the achievement for being elite at slaying bandits, or the achievement for killing elite bandits?

Goblinworks Founder

Hmm, so it is movement while casting. So is there chance of spell failures if you get hit while casting, or a lot of instant casts with the way it looked?

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
I would like to see a version without compression, even if it is a large download.

I would also like to see a high res video if possible -- please.

The demonstration of quite a few concepts are encapsulated within the video and it is promising to see some of the active actions, effects and interactions.

Goblin Squad Member

Nightdrifter wrote:

Just taking a few guesses on the UI:

*red = health
*blue = stamina
*yellow = power

I would think Blue = Power, Yellow = Stamina. But that's largely based on other games; I didn't notice the Yellow bar going down in any of the fights.

Quote:
*not sure what the green bar in the middle of the attacks bar is

I think that might be the Weapon Set, or something.

The Rogue seems to have a zig-zagging back-arrow that I assume is an Escape utility.

I'm curious what the two smaller circles are on each end of the top bar. There's a "?" on the left for the Wizard.

The Warrior has a bull-head in slot 9 that intrigues me as well.

Finally, it looks like most of the abilities have individual cooldowns, and it looks like the Blue bar refills at a near-constant rate rather than in one big bump every 6 seconds.

[Edit] Probably should've refreshed the page before posting after coming back from picking up my daughter...

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

On rewatching the video, I noticed a statue in town at about 1:58; a couple of PCs were fighting near it. Is this just "set decoration" or do such statues serve a purpose? (Note: I'm perfectly fine with purely decorative elements but am certain they'll get left out by min/maxing types if they cost anything and yet serve no "useful" function. So I'm hoping they are both.)

Sovereign Court Goblin Squad Member

I missed the bull head on the fighter. Based on what Stephen said above that'd most likely be a charge utility.

So:

7,8 -> situationals (eg. Evasion in slot 7 on the rogue)
9,0 -> utilities (eg. charge in slot 9 on the fighter)

This implies:

7,8 + modifier -> boot/glove
9,0 + modifier -> consumable/wondrous item

Goblin Squad Member

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The grip on that staff is too low. Looks awkward.

Environments look awesome.

CEO, Goblinworks

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The character models from the Tech Demo exist as statues in the current build. We might keep them around for the sake of the game's history, and you can expect other statues for other purposes later. (Statues are super easy and fun things to put into an MMO!)

CEO, Goblinworks

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The key thing about the combat system as it is currently envisioned is that your goal is to maximize the combos not worry about position and facing. You can see various indicators blinking on and off in the UI as the fights progress. What we want players to do is think about the various attack options they have to inflict a condition on a target or benefit from a condition on a target.

Instead of having a pre-programmed order that you use your attacks you should be choosing moment to moment what the most effective option is based on the conditions affecting you and your target, and your knowledge of what your allies can do based on what conditions you can inflict on a target.

So its more strategic and less tactical than WoW style "run the macro again" combat.

Goblin Squad Member

LostFox wrote:
One last thing I would like to bring up is that I'm not sure showing the enemies mana is really a great thing, it sort of takes away from the suspense of "What is he going to do next?" and replaces it with "His mana is low, so I can probably go in close and kill him" but to each there own. I like suspense a bit more.

Blue isn't mana, as the game doesn't have a mana system. It is most likely Stamina (see blog for more info). And it seems acceptable to me to know where your opponent's stamina is at; allows for people to throw in a big combo once their opponent's stamina is low and they can't counteract against it.

Goblin Squad Member

Hmm okay, that sounds a bit better. I'm willing to give it a shot for sure, it's just hard to get excited about it when just looking at it though. It just looks like WoW combat on the surface.

Only thing I suppose I am worried about is paying attention more to my hotbar than to my character on the screen.

In any case, I'm curious to try the combat and see how the play style works. Seems like it has the possibility of being engaging for sure.

-- Edit: Sorry, I forgot about mana not being in the game, it's been a while since I've looked through the blog. Been busy and what not. Yah stamina is fine, although it would be interesting if the enemy indicated its low stamina through animation, like heavy breathing, staggering, etc. Rather than just a bar. But that would probably cost too much to implement I guess.

Goblin Squad Member

A couple of things. For one, as a pre alpha it looks really good. More so since its actual in game footage and not video.

I know others probably wont like them, but I like the style of the icons for the abilities.

The health bars and such, I dont mind. Perhaps another stock option for people who dont like it. I would like something WoW icehud or DHUD3.

The attack animations I think dont seem to have oomf it feels like. It looked like all the attacks had the same speed and were the same basic swing (right to left mid body). Some more variation I think would be good.

Also that mace....seems a bit large for a one handed weapon.

Overall very nice, I look forward to the next vid.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

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I liked the running animation better this time, the slight jarring effect makes it look like they're touching the ground rather than scissoring their legs while gliding. It looks like a backpedal animation is yet to be developed, though.

I like that health & such are in more of a HUD position rather than stuck in a corner like the WoW default. I also like that they appear to be context-specific, so you don't need to see them unless you're in combat or the meters are less than full.

I appreciate the HUD-position of damage, condition, and achievement notices, but I hope those can also be configured to show up in a 'combat' tab of chat or something like that, so I can look back over them if the situation was too hectic or the background too busy for me to read them at the time.

I hope the chat font size, colours, and transparency are configurable.

The world is quite attractive: not gaudy like WoW but also not muddy & dingy looking like DDO could often be. Comparing it to other games I've played, I guess it's most like LotRO, though it may be better in some ways I can no longer see.

Power, energy, spell-points, whatever... juice that lets you do special stuff but doesn't necessarily mean death if it runs out will be 'mana' to me whatever the game may call it.

Speaking of magic, that is certainly a powerful halitosis, greater spell!

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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Speculation time: Based on the visible chat logs, figure out which of the known GW and/or Paizo employees use which handle.

Known GW employees:

Spoiler:

Rich Baker
Cole Brown
Andrew Carlston
Dyan Dancey
Dave Dawson
Connor Douthat
Esequiel "Zeke" Garcia
Taylor Hainlen
Lee Hammock
Mike Hines
Da Hsia
Mark Kalmes
Stephen Minkin
Andrew Richter
Bob Settles
Tork Shaw
Lisa Stevens
Michael Wallin
Kieran Yanner

All credit to the blog posts announcing their hiring. Errors or omissions mine alone.


Legible general channel chat:
Spoiler:
Darrrn has joined channel
The Blackwidomaker has left channel
Carleros has joined channel
Carleros has left channel
Ripper: NONE SHALL PASS!!!!
Ripper: GOBLINS MUST DIE
Ripper: Your foul deeds will be avenged sevenfold ogres!

- visible on Green Wizard's screen
Spoiler:

Sierra has joined channel
Saaaaaaasyl has joined channel

Sierra has left channel


- visible on gray fighter's screen
Spoiler:

Schwarma has joined channel
HERULKA has joined channel

- visible on red wizard's screen
Spoiler:

Sheneai has joined channel
Sassssy: psst: He Who Shall Not Be Named - I can totally see you
Carleros: hola
Carleros: me llamo carlereos
Hurlaka has joined channel
Hurlaka: Mike, I am in
Carleros has left channel
He Who Shall Not Be Named: Lisa- we are going to the skeletons first
Sassssy: COMPANIONS
Sassssy: I spie EVIL AFOOT!
Sassssy: LEEEEERY JEEEEEENKINS!!!!!!

- visible on red rogue's screen

List of apparent player characters observed, roughly in order of appearance: (Using predominant armor/clothing color and estimating class based on observed weapons or (Mace:Cleric::Staff:Wizard::Sword/shield:fighter::twin daggers:rogue)

Spoiler:

Blue cleric
Green Wizard
Red Rogue
Grey Fighter
Red Wizard
Blue Rogue
Brown-hooded fighter
Purple Wizard (Could be red wizard under different lighting)
Blue PvP rogue (drraan? looks similar to the blue rogue fighting alongside red wizard)
Bystander (blue cleric?)
Ambush observer (Bystander/blue cleric?)

Cold blast cut:
Green Wizard (cone of cold)
Red cleric (becomes red rogue! during cold blast)
4 indistinct characters
Red and blue wizard

Fire blast cut:
Red and Blue chainmail
Blue cleric (?)
five more indistinct characters, apparently the same group as in the previous cut

Short cold blast and flyover cut: No distinguishable characters

Overlook cuts: Red rogue (draws weapons during skeleton finale)

Skeleton Finale: 7 characters:
Green wizard
Red rogue
Green rogue
Gray fighter
and three more that I can't identify in the handful of frames they have.

At most seven characters appear in any scene, and I think I see exactly seven different armor meshes (although red rogue and blue rogue appear to be the same mesh with color changes) For the sake of sanity I'm going to assume that each mesh is one character.

And now we can get to the rampant speculation: Of the seven characters, one is played by Mike (Hines), one by Lisa (Stevens) {from chatter}. I bet Ryan Dancey is Red Rogue, because I think he's the one that set up the overlook cuts with that character just prior. (also, RHIP)
Based on the back-forth exchange, Lisa is Hurlaka, and Mike is He Who Shall Not Be Named. I figure Red Rogue is Sassssy (because the charge started when he arrived last because he was delayed getting the establishing shot of the stone from the battlement, and Sassssy also gave the cry of LRJ.), while HHSNBN is the green rogue

I figure Lee Hammock, Tork Shaw, and Stephen Cheney are also part of the seven in the finale, leaving one goblin uncredited by wild guessing.

Goblin Squad Member

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I understand the more round based, cooldown style combat, but the lack of twitch action for PvP is going to throw a bunch of folks off. After playing AoC and GW2 I'm trying not to be one of them.

It seems completely unnatural to all but stand in place and whack at each other while having different effects go off. I think I'll be able to handle the combat better if they add in things like ducking, dodging, parrying, blocking, stepping backward and thrusting forward. Basically just putting in the animations that make it seem like combat rather than slapping each other and watching different conditions.

Yes, I know how early this is in the development. I'm just putting this out there as an "I hope to see it" before Open Enrollment.

On a different note, it was cool to see someone stealthing. :)

Goblin Squad Member

@ Decious

Wow, I watch the video quite a few times but wasn't able to extrapolate (even if it turns out erroneously) nearly as much you did. Well done and you have my respect and appreciation.

Goblin Squad Member

Gotta agree with Ravenlute about the combat it feels very... whats that stupid game some teens do where you stand there take a punch then you punch till someone gives up. so definately hoping this is definately a case of early development.

On the bright side love the more centralized HUD, size and see through etc stuff can be always applied but having a good HUD from the get go is awesome.

Goblin Squad Member

Have more graphics instead of just standing there would be nice but from the beginning the Devs have stated combat wouldn't be twitched-based.

Which for PvP I think it is a good thing. Puts people on a level playing field when it comes to hand coordination. Some people are physically unable to match twitched-based action combat. Especially since it looks like the typical age group for EE will be 30+.

Sovereign Court Goblin Squad Member

Ravenlute wrote:
It seems completely unnatural to all but stand in place and whack at each other while having different effects go off. I think I'll be able to handle the combat better if they add in things like ducking, dodging, parrying, blocking, stepping backward and thrusting forward. Basically just putting in the animations that make it seem like combat rather than slapping each other and watching different conditions.

At the very least there may be cases where ducking out of melee range in a melee-on-melee fight is advantageous. An example would be when you've used up all your stamina and need to wait for it to replenish. Staying in melee while you can't attack is pretty pointless. How do we know this using up of stamina will occur? Simple: if you couldn't use up all your stamina in a round then stamina would be a pretty pointless mechanic. Sure you may only be ducking out of melee range for maybe 1-2 seconds to get back some stamina, but that saves you a hit against you.

Edit: don't do this against a fighter as it may provoke opportunity. Against other classes it should work though.

Goblin Squad Member

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They should NOT say "Achievement" (everyone else does it so it isn't special anymore) instead you should receive a "Feat Achieved" Message to remain consistent with tabletop experience, if anyone disagrees with me, your GM probably never really awarded you feats for things you've done, the only ones that you received were level based but the GMs are encouraged to award "Feats" to players who roleplay or do their job well, these feats should have a very minor impact on the game similar to the bestiary quests in Warhammer online (Rest in peace). Also look at Atelier Totori: The Adventurer of Arland for the Playstation 3, you gain License Level benefits as you progress which all have gameplay influence, it takes a little bit to get into but the game is fun. I hope That Pathfinder Online will stick closer to the overall feel of the tabletop game rather than compete with MMOs that are already terrible.

I don't play WoW, do I hate it? Only because I find it not enjoyable, I liked Warhammer Online, EVE, & the original Everquest.

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