Jascolich's page

In the recent poll that Goblinworks sent out, I listed "more engaging PVE content along the lines of dungeons" (or something like that) as the feature I would most like to see in the next 3 months. If more people put that in or some other derivative with similar intent, then we may see dungeons or something else interesting, coming sooner rather than later.

+1 for more engaging PVE content

- Jasc

The Empyrean Order has a number of NZ/OZ players (i'm from NZ) and I play regularly during the afternoons into the evenings and late into the wee hours. We are based out of Brighthaven and Keeper's Pass in the SE part of the map if you want to come and visit.

- Jasc Onine

only just fell into a hole beside a road...
relogged and falling through the sky...
relogged and falling through the sky back into my hole...
suicide, fixed beside a shrine

- Jasc

I heard some peeps have been exploiting in Marchmont, killing people in front of guards with no retaliation. This was an in-game conversation last night and apparently it happened on more than one occasion to different people.

Marchmont might be the new Rotter's Hole...

- Jasc

If you are being griefed, get the word out about who and where. If the griefers are exploiting the system, then direct your information to GW. Haters will hate, but GW have been clear that the intent is not to be a murder sim and the mighty smite-lifeban-hammer may be visited upon those who pursue deeds done dirt cheap.

There are champions of justice and fairplay aplenty in the world as well.

- Jasc

You talk to your friends and your company or go visit a safe auction house/mercantile establishment nearby.

There will be out-of-game mechanisms that will also allow people to trade their goods for items of need.

Standing on a street corner is the old fashioned way of achieving the same result - you selling your goods and buying the stuff you need.

- Jasc

Do we know if said wolves (and other lowbie mobs) are going to drop items in EE?

Recipes are meant to be much more common now (still very rare for me) than we may expect in EE, spells even moreso.

If GW are looking to have all items being crafted and having no basic items (swords, armour and the like) drop off mobs, then T0 is always going to have a degree of supply/demand due to death, theft and foulplay.

- Jasc

There is no problem - really.

MVP + feedback = continuous improvement.

I play a ranged fighter as my main with a longbow - I will not be nerfed. (*Disclaimer* This may change based on my experience with alpha.)

I also play a wizzy as my secondary - I will not be nerfed.

We are in alpha and I will test, try and adapt my style to better suit my intended outcomes. Changes are expected and I am here to have fun (and test while in alpha) so I am happy to actually see and try out these potential changes before I provide feedback. Theorising about possible negative impacts is all well and good for some, but I want to be doing the do so I can help provide actual feedback on what does work and what does not - informed commentary on changes and their impact from my perspective.

Will I be rooted while firing a bow or casting a spell? Who cares, i'm playing the game I love!

Let's stop throwing our hands up at the first sign of change... we all knew what we were getting when we signed up for alpha. Roll with it, provide feedback and try to crowdforge this thing into something better!

- Jasc the Seer

I was in... then logged out to change toons and cannot reconnect. Been like this for maybe 30mins.

ARGH!

There is nothing for fighters to fear. If you are a fighter, you are pure badass. If you are a wizard, you can wiggle your fingers and the world dies.

TL;DR: All roles will be balanced and viable for MVP with change expected for continuous improvement throughout the entire lifecycle of the game

Lots of balance to come. Lots of time to influence fighter design.

Fear should not drive design decisions.

There are write-ups on aggro that state fighters are likely to be the only class that can handle large groups well in PVE. Comments with numbers have been provided to a degree around ranged fighters. 95% of the community isn't even in-game yet, but even with the limited numbers, a lot of empirical information has been provided. Feats still need implementing, skills and interactions between systems are still being included every minute of every hour of every day. Fighters seem to do fine in PVP but have some deficiencies that the devs have outlined are going to be fixed if they haven't been already.

Scared you can't run as fast as a mage, play a mage. Otherwise, look at what tools to have at your disposal, try it and adapt it for your survival and playstyle. All roles are going to be viable. Min-maxers might show you a path to mage-godhood in theorycraftland, but we all make choices.

Not sure why alarm bells are going off now... or ever. We have information, we know things are changing, we know that we can influence the change, we will be receiving updated information with each playtest and can ask the alpha testers to confirm or validate aspects.

Fear, fear, fear. Sorry, I don't buy into fear, try next door.

- Jascolich, Master of Fear

1 - You can have 10000000 toons on the same account if you want.

2 - Correct. Current understanding and intent is to start your time in EE if you CHOOSE to start then. It has always been framed in that context since I enrolled for EE kickstarter or sometime very soon after.

- Jascolich

*Note to KC* Please leave the pointy metal implement at home next time.

- Signed: The cow with a missing tail MOOOOO!

The problem is a _perception_ that bow+arrow = instawin combat. 1 person can take down a camp of 5-6 mobs easily and without fear of death.

The reasons for this perceived imbalance have been stated and re-stated in this thread. GW are looking to fix them.

In PVP, there was a similar perception, but Nihimon has countered that argument somewhat (but he was a wizzy in cloth, point prolly still valid against heavy armour) and fighters are looking to have a number of new ways to counter kiting naked PVPers with the proposed changes that @Stephen has outlined.

I agree with @Lam that we are not the designers, but also with @archanjel that proactive feedback is a responsibility of alpha testers and again with @Decius that the "best" feedback is NOT how to fix things, but what things are broken and the context that they are broken in. Suggestions for options to fix things is also useful, but by clarifying the problem in the context allows designers to actually explore options for the immediate opportunity while still keeping the impact of changes and how they affect the entire system, in balance.

- Jascolich, undead designer and undead thinker

Time can heal all wounds, especially for humans who usually die before everyone else ;-)

I think Leperkhaun added a useful option (if the GWs don't all work out) in that you can look at the tiers of bow+arrow and reduced effectiveness if they are out of balance.

Another, much simpler option is to limit the availability of bows or make them more "costly" to craft. Bows can't be overpowered if no one has one, can they? ;-)

I think the "cost" aspect is going to be more important in the formative days because there is no set economy, so if you want to make some money and if bows+arrows are overpowered, then why not focus on providing these? Then they nerf arrows and greatswords become the height of fashion... and so on. Some folks will be crafting bows+arrows regardless (i'm looking at you pointy ears!) but the market and economy will influence how this all works out at the macro level. If folks have fun crafting bows+arrows, then they will do it regardless. If they can make money off it, then all power to them. There are a lot of mechanisms around to measure the flow and power of weapons, mainly your eyes when you are out and about. Does it work for you? Are you having fun? Oh noes, you can't be as effective in enchanting or crafting or the million other things to do! But you can hug your bow+arrows and pew-pew to your hearts content if that is what you want to do...

- Jascolich, arrows only hurt squishy fleshlings anyways

We're crowdforging = things can change.

We're in alpha = things can change.

No ammo = this will change.

AoO not in yet = this will change.

Dumb AI = this will change (leashed mobs.)

Kiting is easy = this is going to change.

Stamina is being played with = this is changing.

With so many things up in the air, allowing the devs to tweak things is probably the best we can hope for now to get a more balanced perspective on weapons and their usage.

The kiting camps thing would be directly related to dumb AI and is hopefully a temporary issue that GW are aware of and are looking to address somewhere down the track.

Ammo consumption by itself may not make bow+arrow more balanced, but the range of options that they are looking at is certainly moving in a useful direction.

At this point in time, it looks like bows are insta-win, but there are a lot of options that GW have (already thought about) to address this. It has been good to raise the point, discuss options, get official commentary on the opportunity and now we wait to see what the outcome will be in-game (and prolly here on the forums too.) It's all a big test before the flood gates open for EE which will be a big test for OE which will be a test for 1 year from now when Gunslingers, Alchemists and Inquisitors are introduced. Did I say that out aloud? YES!

- Jascolich, friend to the puppeteers you are hunting in alpha

Thank ya for the many, many notes... now off to bed with ye, both.

- Jascolich, late night scholar

I like that GW are consciously trying to break away from the trinity for good _reasons_. Tactics, learning, teamwork, options and opportunity abound for smart, sneaky and adaptable characters... profit is likely to follow ;-)

If you want to keep aggro on a character, let them build aggro first and have them actively manage their threat then communicate to their team mates (pre-arranged would be better) to support. I saw this today with the T7V team who were purposefully starting to build team experience with pulls, aggro, limits and skills. Lots of communication and experimenting with different methods, lots of death too. Having battles that aren't all about the pew-pew and button mashing, but something more tactical and adaptable where required (but still action packed and fun) could be what the genre has been crying out for. So even though the trinity might still be there in theory, how they do what they do needs to be more active and reactive (and engaging for everyone.) It might be more a duo-approach now with aggro-magnet + support team. As the AI gets better, new methods will need to be developed by us to deal with the increased NPC smarts.

Finally, I have seen a lot of things to like in the streams to date and nothing that is a dealbreaker. While there is a lot of room for improvement, that has always been the expectation with lean development practices. We still are NOT at MVP yet and that is awesome!

Happy hunting to all you alpha peeps!

- Jascolich

I challenge you to a weight loss competition. Let's see who the biggest loser is! (No exercise allowed on Mondays.)

- Jascolich, skin and bones

I got a "403 - access forbidden" message when I tried to download from the OP link.

Tried in FF and Chrome (latest.)

- Jascolich

I gots my eyes on you, CBD!

- Jascolich, the evil eye

I only see the "Offline" message for all the twitch channels. ARGH!

*calms down and stares at the blank screen in anticipation*

- Jasolich, making undead cool again

Better still, can trees hug us?

ARGH!

So much confuzzlement!

The tower game is only for a "short" period, possibly lasting until EE not almost certainly not past the start of EE.

Small groups still have a lot of freedom to explore, PVE and wander about as they see fit.

If small groups do secure a settlement, there is NO mechanism to remove them until after the start of EE or possibly further into the EE timeline when GW develop and roll out the next installment of _actual_ settlement warfare. DO NOT FEAR!

I would suggest we actually chill out, see what the lucky alpha testers have available and then start to make meaningful commentary on their experiences to help collectively crowdforge a better tomorrow. Yes, we can still influence the direction of the game to align more to how we would like to see it progress. Crowdforging has been in since day 1 of the kickstarter (I think.)

To address another concern, if you have 6 people in your settlement, you use tactics and strategy to keep the towers you _want_. You don't have to secure all 6 adjacent towers on day 1 or even day 50. You can _choose_ which towers you want to keep (if any). All your planning to date should still have value and relevance. Things will change, yes they will.

We are at ALPHA, which is before EE (not sure if EE or OE is MVP) and we can expect a LOT of change between now and then.

Observe, engage, experience... why not actually try it when you do the the opportunity? Fear and uncertainty don't seem to be helping clarify what the big concerns are. As a PVE carebear, I see no reason to be concerned by what GW has proposed to the extent that I do not want to engage. I will try it when I get the opportunity and see if it meets my expectations. If it does I will play and enjoy it. If it does not, I will voice my concerns to GW on the forums and try to find support for my point of view, because we will be able to influence the development (to a small degree) likely for the entire lifecyle of the game. MVP = lean = continuous improvement = adapting + prioritisation = change is gonna happen.

TL;DR: We, the community, can influence change on some aspects of this game if we exercise our voice and find sufficient support.

- Jascolich, thread necromancer and bonecarver

So the druid in the crumbling tower in the swamp made it into the game before everyone thought it would be possible and then the inquisitor, who lives in the tower on the hill decided to flay a kobold who gurgled witch-like incantations about the horse in the field. Then a zombie rose out of the ground... am I close?

- Jascolich, rezzing mindless zombies since '92

...but just because the effort is higher, does not mean that it will be implemented later. @Ryan has stated that we can lobby and crowdforge which classes come next, so feel free to wave the flag for the class you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY feel strongly for.

DRUID!

RAWR!

- Jascolich, undeath is a natural state for bones... innit?

Druid! RAWR! Druid... raw...r?

Pally > Sorc > Bard = Barbarian.

Not sure of the "cost" of each "new" class, but I do remember a few comments from GW around the effort required. I think Ryan quoted the effort required in one of the dev vids which saw barbarians as the least intensive and bards as the highest effort (out of the 4 new classes listed.)

Ranger, druid and monk all required significant effort over and beyond that of the 4 classes in the OP iirc.

I still have high hopes for a magnificent (or any) implementation of the inquisitor and gunslinger (in 3 years time.) In the meantime, I will keep refreshing @decius' twitch stream even though alpha is... not... quite... open... yet.

Yes,i'm looking at you Mr @decius! O_O

- Jascolich

Beware the omnipotent... feather of tickling!

*tickle, tickle*

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!

- Jascolich

I was scared >_<

The subject line made it sound like action was required immediately (once again, the wording did not match the intent methinks) but this was cleared up quickly after an email to support. Anything that has "Response needed..." usually gets my attention =D

Thanks for the clarification and looking forward to what the international postal system brings ;-)

- Jascolich

On the new map there are no letters for settlements.

Yes, there are a number of minor anomalies. The legend does have an icon, but no settlements are marked. Likely there is a layer that is not visible to us when they exported the map (but it is likely to be there.)

This all takes precious time, so quite easy to overlook something of this nature I would guess.

On another note... the scale of the new map is very, very large (and may not even be the "final").

This gives us a sense of the enormity that awaits us...

Thanks again to GW for the responsiveness and transparency in allowing us to see what the future may look like. (Yay for lean, yay for Agile)

Assumption: this big map (v1) is an earlier iteration of the mini-map(v2)? (some minor differences in icons and colouring and the mini-map has more detail)

Thanks @lee, lots of thinking to be done.

What's the icon that looks kinda like a bonfire (eg. in hex 00.11)?

Volcanoes maybe...?

A good update in terms of understanding the size of our EE world, thanks GW.

The range of terrain (even if it looks sparse for the MVP) is oozing with opportunity.

The tactics and strategy of the Great PFO Land Rush are going to be interesting (as others have mentioned.) The placement of the "open" settlement hexes will be a matter of thorough debate and I look forward to hearing how chartered companies, guilds and the like will be monopolising perceived hotspots (for resources and conflict.)

Good luck to all you Alpha peeps and keep us as informed as you are allowed... EE seems so tantalisingly close, yet cannot come soon enough ;-P

Clear, simple and concise response - thanks for that @ryan.

Ah, potentially very useful in that context. Complex too, but I can see the value there...

Raids, now there is something that could be a suggested topic in the Q&A for our developer friends to comment on =D

It was an explicit incentive offered to potential supporters for a limited time, lucky for some.

It was what it was and is exclusive, unfortunate for others.

It will no longer be offered, nothing more to see here.

Interesting concept, how would this be represented in-game as there would potentially need to be stacks of screen real estate to manage and visualise the depth + complexity?

What would the benefits be? (wider raid-like groups or some such)
- in-game communications could potentially be super confusing

Also wondering about flags... if the top-level group smacked down an innocent, that could have serious negative impacts on the nested parties.

I'd like to see where this goes...

As we progress through development and crowdforging towards MVP, the depth and breadth of effort versus the difficulty in implementation is becoming more apparent. I am not sure how to best contribute given the many unknowns, but I (and many others who are more active than I) are happy to provide considered constructively critical commentary on the complex and tough bits.

I do think that creating and living in the "now" of what we know and what is likely represents a clear challenge to those who are in alpha, EE and further into OE. The lean|agile development style of this sandbox will be challenging but as with most innovations, there needs to be an awareness that some things will be different and the initial expectations need to be tempered with a degree of adaptability.

@alexander - "Commoner" is perfect as it encapsulates the monotony of harvesting and gathering ;-) It isn't sexy though, but a very apt interpretation of a role that has roots in Pathfinder literature (or seems to as I do not play PF TT but there are many references to the commoner class for NPCs.)

As a commoner, I will also be taking "hide from bandits", "run really fast" and "bribe" as well as carrying a big nasty looking weapon of mass destruction to sow doubt in the minds of the lawless ;-)

The wait is... painful though. Bring on EE!

I still think a flexible-draft-tentative roadmap or timeline of what and when would be a good thing to inspire and focus thoughts on how to provide thoughtful suggestions and crowdforginess ;-)

#we-wont-hold-you-to-it #draft-roadmap-of-known-features #crowdforging-with-purpose

Thank you @lee @stephen.

I embrace you MVPness and continuous improvement process.

Rogue, cleric, fighter and wizard are good starter roles (love that commoner and expert are there for the non-fightey alternative types.) Barbarian, paladin, sorcerer and bard will add some interesting diversity when they come in.

So much tasty information to ponder. More meaningful commentary after breakfast here in NZ.

Tricksee,

There is the potential for many different types of security breaches, so increasing the scale globally increases the complexity and required security overheads (theoretically.)

Having a single "server" or server farm reduces complexity and overhead initially but does introduce a single-point-of-dependency which is inherently fragile.

I assume that they will provide the best security they can at the physical and network layers, look at some appropriate safeguards at the application layer and throw a beasty layer 3/5 firewall for the in-between.

I also assume that their code integrity would be the highest priority, followed by server availability with hacking or cheating down the priority list, but I have been known to be wrong in the past ;-)

Hard to say how they are handling it though as we have little information, but a useful conversation to explore options.

Meaningful... purposeful... human interaction within a community of passionate players supported by an emergent culture of organic growth and continuous improvement that is self-moderated to build a living and breathing world reflecting the progressive lore of Pathfinder.

TL;DR - For the HUGS!

A similar potential roadmap based on your 10 point system with 10 being high priority, high impact:

[10][MVP] (Primary--) secure authentication system
[10][MVP] (Primary--) terrain generation system
[10][MVP] (Primary--) combat system
[10][MVP] (Secondary) melee combat system
[10][MVP] (Secondary) magic combat system
[10][MVP] (Secondary) ranged combat system
[10][MVP] (Primary--) inventory management system
[10][MVP] (Primary--) skill impact system
[10][MVP] (Primary--) creature spawning system
[10][MVP] (Secondary) looting system
[09][EE-] (Primary--) character creation system
[09][EE-] (Secondary) character alignment system
[09][EE-] (Primary--) character grouping system
[09][EE-] (Primary--) in-game communication systems
[09][EE-] (Tertiary-) player-versus-player combat
[08][EE-] (Primary--) stand-and-deliver system
[08][EE-] (Primary--) economy management system
[08][EE-] (Secondary) creature escalation cycle
[07][EE-] (Primary--) settlement management system
[07][EE-] (Secondary) item crafting system
[07][EE-] (Tertiary-) character stealth system
[06][EE-] (Secondary) character traits system
[06][EE-] (Secondary) consumables system
[06][EE-] (Secondary) banking system
[06][EE-] (Secondary) guild support system
[04][OE-] (Primary--) environmental weather system
[04][OE-] (Primary--) fast travel system
[02][OE-] (Secondary) battle formations
[02][OE-] (Secondary) feuds
[01][OE-] (Secondary) day night cycle

Just some thoughts at this early stage...

*Hugs Steven in a manly and womanly fashion*

My heart is a-flutter!

Such auspicious news on a day of mundane skullduggery.

WE THE PLAYERS ARE THAT PENALTY or lack thereof.

There should not be "secure zones" with "Marshals".

WE THE PLAYERS ENFORCE WHICH ZONES ARE SECURE

WE THE PLAYERS ARE THE MARSHALS

I salute you sir and join you in your hunt of the lawless... but with all the chaos during EE, your ideal may be a way off.

Still, let us call the hounds to the hunt and effect a palpable fear in the stone-cold hearts of predators-of-man. Let us steal their toilet paper and laugh at their misfortune. A pox on their eyes, that we may dull their senses with ragwort. A pox on their liver, that we may relieve them of their amber diet. And a pox on the purses, that we replace coin with plastic facsimiles so that they are incarcerated for minor misdemeanors!

- In PoX we trust

Although I like the idea if injury points as a resource manage mechanic, I'm not sure if I'm keen for spike damage to be dropped for PvE. The visceral feeling of bit hits are what make combat interesting - both in MMOs and on the tabletop.

That said crits can be harder to balance against power levelling curves.

In PvP you could i) have some mechanic (purely for pvp) like fortification in DDO that stops crits or ii) force people like in Secret World to hybridise and add more HPs to their builds.

It was stated early on by Ryan (and possibly other devs) that spike damage like crits are not "meaningful" (or some other similar wording) and they were going to work on an alternative system. While we are still early on in the crowdforging part of the game, they will likely try a couple of things to see how they work - the injury system and reduced crit effects are likely experimental (but seem to be workable in theory.) So there is a bit more consideration and reduced-spike-damage-by-design than there may seem =D

While the whole game is a balancing act of juggling goblin balls, we need to actually try some of the systems to provide feedback to the devs on what actually works in practice. That means alpha and EE along with on-going commentary on what we see in the forums and blogs.

At the end of the day, the game needs to be fun (and engaging and enduring and more fun!)

The injury system sounds good in theory, I wonder how it is working in practice =D

Clerics being up-close-and-dirty is a good thing, touch-based heals are also good. It sounds like combat positioning (tank up front, mages in back) will be more tactical for parties which is also a good thing.

I wonder if there are other ways to deal with injuries apart from clerical spells (heal skill?)

The orison wand-styled system also sounds promising, but can we and how do we recharge them? O_o

Good coverage of some divine casting questions and general cleric abilities.

Thanks GW folks and look forward to the next blog... in 2 weeks >_<

Opportunity: We need a strong in-game presence to play the foil to the goodie-goods (provide a contrast) so that everyone (good, bad and ugly) has a place to play the way they want to without being griefed, abused and harrassed.

Current issues:
- some of the wording and comments around the "necessary evil" have been inflammatory, insensitive and outright hostile
- exploits, hacking, griefing and superficial emotion get rational people fired up
- this is meant to be a game, not real life
- GW have made their stance clear on many of these points and do not want a free-for-all grief-fest

...so...

How can we better present the reality of conflict within PFO to the wider community so that everyone understands the range of outcomes for in-game actions allowing them to make choices around how they play when confronted by potential conflict?

One option: Under specify, observe and take action where required

Benefit: Allows for organic growth and the establishment of balanced user-led guides that are self-policing and self-imposed (little administrative maintenance required)

Drawbacks: Can deteriorate into FFA-grief-fests and requires some level of oversight (moderate level of administrative overhead required)

Outcomes:
Benefits - happy world with an empowered happy community; minimal input needed from GW
Drawbacks - more rules imposed across the entire user-base by the administration to remove or disincentives negative actions

+1 grain of salt

MVP and EO blog is a good refresher as to what is soon to come, and I recommend it as it is applicable to Lee's question above.

"...Our intention is to make the roadmap very public so that everyone knows what is currently being worked on, in what order, and what the estimated delivery timeframes are..."

// In the lead-in to alpha and early enrollment, a roadmap would be helpful as it will give us some idea of what is coming up in the pipeline and how we can provide considered discussion around the crowdforged bits =D

// How soon after MVP can we expect to see guns and gunslingers? (12 months?)

// Will psionics ever make it into PFO?

// How will encumbrance affect speed? (lightly/moderately/heavily/over or just one cut-off point?)

// Can you please give us an approximate indication of how long IRL it would take to build a few structures given ideal conditions? (walls, crafting room, storeroom)

// Will character statistics and skills play a meaningful part in the PVE world?
-- Charisma skills: intimidation, diplomacy, bluff, etc
-- Intelligence skills: appraise, craft, knowledge, etc
-- Wisdom skills: heal, perception, survival, etc

// How can stats and skills be meaningfully incorporated into PVP and wider world happenings?

// How is inventory, storage and banking handled?
-- How much stuff can I carry?
-- Where can I put stuff that I don't need?
-- Is there any type of secure storage that cannot be stolen (or is very hard to steal from)?

More ideas:

// Gold neck chain (BLING)
// Shiny glass bauble (BAUBLE)
// A gift from the Don (FAVOUR)
// A Secret Sign (ASS - okay, that one might not be ideal as an acronym)
// Whispered Goblin Winks (WINKs)
// Bits'n'bobs (BOBs)
// Third Mark (3Ms)

@nevy - "End of discussion" usually means the end of the discussion ;-)

// Exchange of Services (XoS)

// Rune of Lesser Knowledge (RoLK)

If we were going with more conceptual thinking (like Skymetal bits):

// Leaf of Learning (LoL)

// Foremark (FMK)

// Bramblethorn Wine (BTW)

// Crafty Coins (CC)

I am not sure if we are coming up with viable concepts or just having fun, but we seem to be doing both so don't stop now ;-P