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I would just like to say that when I was dicking around with character creations, I managed to make something that could make ten attacks and move 800ft per round. The damage per shot was pretty good too.
this thread makes me wanna throw together a half-orc flame oracle/barb/rage prophet with lots and lots of movement.
I would just like to say that when I was dicking around with character creations, I managed to make something that could make ten attacks and move 800ft per round. The damage per shot was pretty good too.
Uhhhhhh.... Brain shut down on that one. Wanna put it up?
I would just like to say that when I was dicking around with character creations, I managed to make something that could make ten attacks and move 800ft per round. The damage per shot was pretty good too.
what, was it a dude with every type of natural attack (there was a guy here who made a similar build) who just charges around with speed increases, the run feat, and pounce?
This thread is in advice, not rules.Very fair point. Gotta give you that one. :)
I have been talking about how I would rule it, and my advice if you want to have a high movement speed is play a monk. Ultimately, as I stated in my original post I implied that the OP should ask his DM whether he will allow it to stack.I think myself and others were perhaps thrown off by how you said it. You said this is how you'd rule it, and framed your rationale as being an explanation of how the ruleset works. Had you more clearly identified your stance as being something of your own construction (i.e., "In my games I prefer to do things this way, and it's been working well for us" or some such) then you might not have had to explain yourself. ;) Often when people say "this is how I rule it", they're meaning "this is my interpretation of how the rules already work or were intended to work by default", so that's how it came across.
Sorry for the de-rail, folks.
Sorry that I failed to adequately explain my intentions. My fault. Sometimes it's hard to be very clear and precise when having discusion that are not in person because you cannot explain in real time what you mean.
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For those indicating that increases to "base speed" operate on the original speed, I believe the misunderstanding is one of seeking a definition for base speed vs. simply speed.
Your "Speed" is simply how fast you *can* move - that's clear.
Your Base speed is your movement rate prior to reduction due to armor, or multiplication due to taking a double move or running. It actually is defined in the book.
Your speed is determined by your race and your armor (see Table: Tactical Speed). Your speed while unarmored is your base land speed.
So the use of the term "base" for speed isn't intended as some fixed original number, simply the number prior to modifications.
This has several effects that restrict things from getting too crazy. Most particularly, increases to base speed are reduced by armor and encumbrance. (50' in med. armor = 35', 60' = 40', etc.) If this wasn't the case, then our 60' Oracular Traveling Barbarian could wear medium armor and still move 50'/round, making the difference between armored and unarmored rather meaningless. And the speeding velociraptor would still move close to 140'.
Without the rule snippet above, it can be very confusing why something would reference *base* speed instead of simply speed. It does sound very restrictive. And it is, just not in that way.
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Don't know if we agreed that a different race was better. Saw the tiefling fiendish sprinter alt race feature. My original idea was Catfolk with their Sprinter racial trait.
Also not sure if I saw it or not but I think a lot of builds were missing the Run feat. Or is it more economic to do the barbarian rage powers way for x6?
Also to Shfish, I think the assumption when someone posts a topic saying let's break X, the character created typically has no utility, at least in my experience. See the 20th level kobold with AC:81.
Congratulations to Joanna Swiftblade for her mind blowing display and quick facts.
I'd like to see the final say on what the max speed is for a 20th level character? Also what about the turning into a lightning bolt? Or why doesn't the druid turn into a cheetah?
Otherwise very interesting and good times for all :)
I kind of like the Longstrider spell. Sure, not a massive bonus, but lasts for 1 hour/level. Also, it is the 1st level domain spell for Travel.
But hey, nothing preventing a druid from going velociraptor with those mods on... I REALLY like the idea of a velociraptor outdistancing the cars on the highway.
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The old "The Flash as a PC" challenge.
Fastest 20-th level character I imagined had a Speed of 185 without magic items, temporary abilities or spell effects.
Elf, Cleric (Travel) 1/Oracle (Flame) 1/Monk 18
Feats : The whole Eldritch Heritage chain with either Elemental (Fire) or Efreeti + 6 times Fleet.
Elf: 30
Monk (Elf favored class option): +75
Other 2: +20
Eldritch Heritage (4 feat chain): +30
Fleet x6: +30
Total: 185
Thing is... it's in general a pretty useless thing to maximize. Even 60' gives you incredible mobility, generally you can choose exactly where you want to go on the battlefield and which squares to avoid on the way there. More than this doesn't really confer much in the way of additional benefits. You are probably better off aiming for a way to get flight with a good maneuverability.
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Well, there are some things you can do if you have that large amount of speed. If you obtain lunge and spring attack, you can have a large enough reach to strike anything. Moreover, if you get a weapon that can hinder an enemy's action, like the Dragon's Tail in the dragonslayer handbook, you can prove to be a formidable combatant.
I have set up a (pfs) character that can reach 85 movement speed with Spring Attack and Lunge. With the tail, he has a reach of 15 feet. Creatures can not asunder that weapon unless they have the Strike Back feat, so it makes it difficult to get a hold of him.
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If only there where a bonus to overrun or bullrush attempts if you move faster than 30' base. But this board is probably the reason why this doesn't happen :)
Atleast you could finish any chase before it started with anywhere between a +10 or +20. Since the highest roll I've seen in a chase is 25 (probably a 30 out there somewhere) you could take two squares per turn, as long as you don't roll a 1 :P
Check out Aerial assault - awesome concept, potentially impractical? for a build that gets >200' on Jumps. Someone posted an idea that could bump that to >300'.
I have a dwarf in desperate need of ground-to-air assault capability. >=)
While not plain speed, it is related.
/cevah
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Just found Shadow Dodge This now gives our super speed build a stupid high AC if I am understanding the feat correctly.
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Here is a sort of update to the Max Speed, sans Velociraptor.
Human Barbarian 1/Oracle (Flame or Metal) 1/Cleric (Travel Domain) 1/ Plains Druid 3/ Horizon Walker 3/ Ninja 2
Level 1:
Base - Tribal Scars (Raptorscale)
Race - Fleet
Class (Barbarian) - Fast Movement
Level 2:
Class (Oracle) - Cinder Dance/Dance of the Blades
Level 3:
Base - Fleet
Class (Cleric) - Travel Domain
Level 4:
Class (Druid)
Level 5:
Base - Fleet
Class (Druid)
Level 6:
Class (Druid) - Run Like the Wind
Level 7:
Base - Fleet
Class (Horizon Walker)
Level 8:
Class (Horizon Walker) - Terrain Mastery (Plains)
Level 9:
Base - Fleet
Class (Horizon Walker) - Terrain Dominance(Plains)
Level 10:
Class - Ninja
Level 11:
Class - Ninja - Ki Pool
Drink a Potion of Expedious Retreat and Potion/Wand of Slipstream.
30' Base
10' (Cinder Dance)
10' (Fast Movement)
10' (Travel Domain)
10' (Run Like the Wind)
30' (Expedious Retreat)
10' (Slipstream)
10' (Terrain Dominance)
30' (Fleet x6)
20' (Ki Point)
5' (Tribal Scars (Raptorscale))
175' Base Land Speed. 350' Charge. 1/hour - 700' Charge
To recharge your Ki, you can purchase a Wand of Replenish Ki.
Note to those who play Pathfinder Society, this is legal.
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Make them a dwarf (or another race with Slow and Steady), reduce the movement 10', give them Run (x5 speed) - and load up with 18 str, 17 dex. Pile on Dodge, Wind Stance, Lightning stance, and 300 lbs of valuables. Now you have the fastest, safest (basically invisible) transport service short of teleporting.
doesn't haste (or the boots of springing and striding) add movement speed as well, or does that not stack with one of your many sources?
I like the Pard from Bestiary 4. It has 120 move speed, and it can phase through objects (like a wall) and creatures if it moves fast enough. It can even set creatures on fire after phasing through them.
Okay let's try a build with a level 20 cap
Human - 30ft
1-18 Monk - +60ft Total - 90ft
19 Barbarian - +10ft Total - 100ft
20 Oracle - +10ft Total - 110ftThen add feats
Fleet x 7 - +35ft Total - 145ft
Skill focus(either planes or nature)
Eldrich Heritage, normal, Improved and greater in either elemental(fire) or Efreeti - +30ft Total - 175ftFinally have your party sorcere polymorph you into a raptor and cast haste giving you another 60ft - Total 235ft (255ft /w ki)
Optionaly you could go with the stormborn eldrich heritage instead of Elemental(fire) or Efreeti to get the ride the thuder ability (10x speed in a strait line as a full round action) at the cost of 30ft base speed.
EDIT: Took out the option of a second level of barbarian to get the sprint rage power as upon looking it up I find that it requires barb 4.
so it's speed is 46.6344 kilometers per hour. not bad, still a car is faster.
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When you move at better than 500'/round, you can run down the cliff faster than you can fall down.
/cevah
Someone said it already but Slyph can get base 35 with their Like The Wind alt racial. Plus there is a sylph racial trait following breezes that gives another five feet. so that's base 40 plus everything else.
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I played with a movement build and faced the "OK, I'm fast--now what?" problem. I played around with focusing on the Panther Style tree: when you provoke AoOs from moving through people's threatened area, you get a retaliatory unarmed strike.
Pick up Dodge and Mobility. Worship Rowdrosh and take Celestial Obedience for a +4 sacred bonus to AC vs movement-provoked AoOs. With +8 AC vs AoOs for moving through people's squares, you can suck up every AoO on the board, every round until they get smart enough to stop trying (but by then all your friends should be in place).
If you want to go Maneuver Master Monk, combine the Snake Style tree with Panther Style for free AoOs whenever an opponent misses you, or use the Snapping Turtle Style tree to get a free grapple attempt when someone misses you.
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Why not Tiefling with the alternate racial trait, Fiendish Sprinter
Fiendish Sprinter: Some tieflings have feet that are more bestial than human. Whether their feet resemble those of a clawed predator or are the cloven hooves common to many of their kind, tieflings with this trait gain a 10-foot racial bonus to their speed when using the charge, run, or withdraw actions. This racial trait replaces skilled.
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My bad. Didn't realise Monk speed was an enhancment bonus. Also the sprint rage ability requires barbarian 4 and taking certain arcane heritages, such as efreeti will work better than fleet.My bad. But the Monk levels give the same type of bonus as Haste or Expeditious Retreat, so it wouldn't stack.You took one too many levels of monk, you only need 18 to get +60ft, and you forgot the +30ft from either expeditious retreat or haste, so 275ft, sprinting 1530ft in 6 secondsLet's take it to the max...
Human 30ft
1: Travel Domain Cleric +10ft / Feat: Fleet x2 +10ft
2-20: Monk +60 ft / Feats Fleet x9 +45ft / Ki pool: +20ft movespeed
21: Barbarian +10ft / Feat: Fleet +5ft
22: Barbarian Rage Power: Sprint - x6 movespeed as a full round action.
23: Oracle Cinder Dance Revelation +10ft / Feat: Fleet +5ft
24-28: Druid Velociraptor +30ft / Feat: Fleet x2 +10ftTotaling that: Velociraptor (60) + Fleet x15 (+75) + Barbarian / Cleric / Oracle (+30ft) + Monk (60ft) + Ki pool (+20ft) = 245ft move speed.
He can sprint once a rage at 1350ft in 6 seconds (Out distancing a CL20 dimension door). This translates to 167.045 MPH. That's more that double your average highway speed. His jogging pace (a double move/charge) is 55.677 MPH, which nears highway speeds.
He could finish a marathon in a little over half an hour at a "brisk pace". He could get a speeding ticket for jogging down your average city road (though what cop is really going to have the balls pull over a velociraptor doing 55mph?). He could get from New York to LA in under a little over 50 hours, on foot. All this for a small, 28 level, investment. :P
Let's bring this up Beyond the impossible, Add to the board 6 more levels of barbarian for the swift foot rage powers wich are required for the special sprinting power, you can stack it 3 times to get a boost while raging. Also, have the character be Catfolk, why? Because of the Sprinter racial trait, which can be upgraded by catfolk exemplar. this alows that during a run, withdraw or charging action the catfolk can add 20ft to movement speed before it's multiplied.
So what I have is a
catfolk
Barb/8
druid/4 (wildshape)
Cleric/1
oracle/1
Monk/18 (minimum for max move speed)
Fleetx15
catfolk exemplar (sprint)
totaling Base 30 + raptor 30 + fleet 75 + monk 60 + Ki 20 + Cleric/oracle 20 + barb 10 + rage 15 = 260 + catfolk run/charge 20 = 280
Giving the raging catfolk raptor a charge range of 580 feet and a run speed of 1560 feet
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I've looked up some fun ways to make fast PCs. This one is my personal take on it, an alteration of a blogger's take on making Sonic the Hedgehog in Pathfinder.
Race: Human, 30 feet speed
1) Barbarian, +10 foot speed
Run and Fleet feats, 45 foot speed at level 1.
2) Unarmed Fighter
Dragon Style bonus feat
3-20) Martial Artist Monk
Fleet at every opportunity. Bonus feats in Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack to keep with the theme.
This is hardly the fastest build, but if offers a few fun things. I'd like to consider it a reliable compromise, and still a LOT faster than what a normal PC can manage.
- Rage is a great way to boost damage
- Dragon Style means you can run and charge through difficult terrain.
- Martial Artist Monk means you gain immunity to fatigue and exhaustion, allowing you to run for days and easily toggle Rage.
- Don't forget MAM's ability to ignore DR/hardness. Great for bursting through walls, AND extra useful in Season 6 of PFS.
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Here is a sort of update to the Max Speed (version 3), sans Velociraptor.
Human Barbarian 1/Oracle (Flame or Metal) 1/Cleric (Travel Domain) 1/ Plains Druid 3/ Horizon Walker 3/ Bloodrager 1/Unsworn Shaman 1
Level 1:
Base - Tribal Scars (Raptorscale)
Race - Fleet
Class (Barbarian) - Fast Movement
Level 2:
Class (Oracle) - Dance of the Blades
Level 3:
Base - Fleet
Class (Cleric) - Travel Domain
Level 4:
Class (Druid)
Level 5:
Base - Fleet
Class (Druid)
Level 6:
Class (Druid) - Run Like the Wind
Level 7:
Base - Fleet
Class (Horizon Walker)
Level 8:
Class (Horizon Walker) - Terrain Mastery (Plains)
Level 9:
Base - Fleet
Class (Horizon Walker) - Terrain Dominance(Plains)
Level 10:
Class (Bloodrager) - Fast Movement
Level 11:
Class (Shaman) 1 - Hex - Cinder Dance
Drink a Potion of Expedious Retreat and Potion/Wand of Slipstream.
30' Base
10' (Dance of the Blades)
10' (Cinder Dance)
10' (Barbarian Fast Movement)
10' (Bloodrager Fast Movement)
10' (Travel Domain)
10' (Run Like the Wind)
10' (Terrain Dominance)
30' (Fleet x6)
5' (Tribal Scars (Raptorscale))
30' (Expedious Retreat)
10' (Slipstream)
175' Base Land Speed. 350' Charge. 1/hour - 700' Charge or 1400' Run
This has a more overall stable Speed (Fast Movement/Cinder Dance), rather than a limited pool (Ninja's Ki Pool). Again, the 6 Feats for Fleet can be changed to your desire (My idea is to get Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and Lunge)
Again, to those who play Pathfinder Society, this is legal.
Zainale, you are a true necromancy addict. Are you perchance a lich?
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Wanderlust focuses on overland travel, which is nice. Unfortunately, it doesn't affect combat speed.
I had forgotten a spell that would assist in boosting a charge or retreat: Cheetah's Sprint.
This would result in a 3500' Charge. 1/hour - 7000' Charge or 14000' Run.
Let's break that sound barrier. =)
One of my current characters is an elf occultist whose background is as a courier. I've had combats where my turns have been Expeditious Retreat, Sudden Speed, move 90'. This is possible at level 1, though the combo only lasts a minute at that point. As an elf, I took the alt racial for Run and +2 initiative. There's something to be said about a level 1 character who can run a mile in slightly over a minute.
Wanderlust focuses on overland travel, which is nice. Unfortunately, it doesn't affect combat speed.
I had forgotten a spell that would assist in boosting a charge or retreat: Cheetah's Sprint.
This would result in a 3500' Charge. 1/hour - 7000' Charge or 14000' Run.
Let's break that sound barrier. =)
That is a 1st level spell that uses a swift to activate. Does you build leave you the swift? The ninja ki speed increase needs a swift so does not work with the spell. I don't know enough to read you build's requirements for resources.
/cevah
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So you guys have all missed perhaps the largest speed increase of all (though it is only for a limited amount of time per day).
A one level dip in occultist with the transmutation implement can give you access to the Sudden Speed power which increases your land speed by 30ft for 1 minute as a swift action.
Are we all just trying to make Sonic the Hedgehog?
What class is he?
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Wanderlust focuses on overland travel, which is nice. Unfortunately, it doesn't affect combat speed.
I had forgotten a spell that would assist in boosting a charge or retreat: Cheetah's Sprint.
This would result in a 3500' Charge. 1/hour - 7000' Charge or 14000' Run.
Let's break that sound barrier. =)
That is a 1st level spell that uses a swift to activate. Does you build leave you the swift? The ninja ki speed increase needs a swift so does not work with the spell. I don't know enough to read you build's requirements for resources.
/cevah
The build that I had on December 2nd swapped out the Ninja levels for something else (I think the Bloodrager/Shaman combo).
With the introduction of the Occult Adventures, Jurassic Pratt, it does indeed gives us another way to boost the speed of the character. Since it lasts for 1 minute per use, it is effective in combat (for Spring Attack or escaping the combat). We can swap out the 3 Levels of Horizon Walker (10 ft) for a Level in Occultist and 2 Levels of Alchemist (For Montsrous Graft, a +5 ft bonus)
Now let us say that we are going to for the Spring Attack Build:
Level 1:
Base - Tribal Scars (Raptorscale)
Race - Dodge
Class (Barbarian) - Fast Movement
Level 2:
Class (Oracle) - Dance of the Blades
Level 3:
Base - Mobility
Class (Cleric) - Travel Domain
Level 4:
Class (Druid)
Level 5:
Base - Fleet
Class (Druid)
Level 6:
Class (Druid) - Run Like the Wind
Level 7:
Base - Fleet
Class (Alchemist)
Level 8:
Class (Alchemist) - Discovery - Monstrous Graft
Level 9:
Base - Spring Attack
Class (Occultist) - Sudden Speed
Level 10:
Class (Bloodrager) - Fast Movement
Level 11:
Base - Fleet
Class (Shaman) 1 - Hex - Cinder Dance
Drink a Potion of Expedious Retreat and Potion/Wand of Slipstream.
30' Base
10' (Dance of the Blades)
10' (Cinder Dance)
10' (Barbarian Fast Movement)
10' (Bloodrager Fast Movement)
10' (Travel Domain)
10' (Run Like the Wind)
5' (Monstrous Graft)
15' (Fleet x3)
5' (Tribal Scars (Raptorscale))
30' (Sudden Speed)
30' (Expedious Retreat)
10' (Slipstream)
185' Base Land Speed. 370' Charge. 740' Run.
1/hour - 740' Charge or 1480' Run.
With Cheetah's Sprint - 3700' Charge. 7400' Run. 1/hour - 7400' Charge or 14800' Run
Sidenote: At Level 11, you will have a BAB of +4 and Base Saves of 14/4/11
Another alternative that you can use is Disregarding the Alchemist Levels, as well as a +0 BAB, +10 Speed class and go for swap the Barbarian for the Unchained Barbarian, grabbing the Swift Foot/Sprint Rage Powers.
The barbarian adds 1/2 her speed to the distance she can move when she runs or charges. A barbarian must have the swift foot rage power and be at least 4th level to select this rage power.
Level 1:
Base - Tribal Scars (Raptorscale)Race - Dodge
Class (Unchained Barbarian) - Fast Movement
Level 2:
Class (Unchained Barbarian) - Rage Power - Swift Foot
Level 3:
Base - Mobility
Class (Cleric) - Travel Domain
Level 4:
Class (Druid)
Level 5:
Base - Fleet
Class (Druid)
Level 6:
Class (Druid) - Run Like the Wind
Level 7:
Base - Spring Attack
Class (Unchained Barbarian)
Level 8:
Class (Unchained Barbarian) - Rage Power - Sprint
Level 9:
Base - Fleet
Class (Occultist) - Sudden Speed
Level 10:
Class (Bloodrager) - Fast Movement
Level 11:
Base - Fleet
Class (Shaman) 1 - Hex - Cinder Dance
30' Base
10' (Cinder Dance)
10' (Barbarian Fast Movement)
10' (Bloodrager Fast Movement)
10' (Travel Domain)
10' (Run Like the Wind)
15' (Fleet x3)
5' (Tribal Scars (Raptorscale))
30' (Sudden Speed)
30' (Expedious Retreat)
10' (Slipstream)
x1.5 When Charging/Running (Sprint)
170' Base Land Speed. 510' Charge. 1020' Run.
1/hour - 1020' Charge or 2040' Run
With Cheetah's Sprint - 5100' Charge. 1/hour - 5100' Charge or 20400' Run
Sidenote: With this build at Level 11, you will have a BAB of +7 and Base Saves of 13/2/10
An if you swap a Fleet with the Run feat, this can go to insane levels.
Rebuild #1:
900' Run.
1/hour - 1800' Run.
With Cheetah's Sprint - 9000' Run.
1/hour - 18000' Run
Rebuild #2:
1235' Run. (Rounded Down to nearest 5')
1/hour - 2475' Run
With Cheetah's Sprint - 12375' Run.
1/hour - 24750' Run
MageHunter, I don't think that even Sonic can run 4.6875 miles (the 24750' run) in 6 seconds. =)
And again, PFS Legal.
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For these, this is the setup:
Precombat - Cast Slipstream (10 min/CL, so 30 minutes)
Round 1 - Use Wand of Expeditious Retreat (Standard Action, Last 1 minute); Activate Occultist's Sudden Speed (Swift Action, Last 1 minute); Move up to 185' or 170' (180' or 165' with the Run Feat build, respectively)
Round 2 - Spring Attack to Base Land Speed, or Charge/Run (can activate Run like the Wind 1/hour ability and/or Cheetah's Sprint as a Swift)
Note: Cheetah's Sprint is a 5X speed increase not a 10X increase. It gives you 10X what you can do in a round, which is a double move (i.e. 2X base). Therefore, you get a 5X from it.
/cevah
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Note: Cheetah's Sprint is a 5X speed increase not a 10X increase. It gives you 10X what you can do in a round, which is a double move (i.e. 2X base). Therefore, you get a 5X from it.
/cevah
Ah, you are correct. Here are the adjustments:
Rebuild #1:
900' Run.
1/hour - 1800' Run.
With Cheetah's Sprint - 4500' Run.
1/hour - 9000' Run
Rebuild #2:
1235' Run. (Rounded Down to nearest 5')
1/hour - 2475' Run
With Cheetah's Sprint - 6180' Run. (Rounded Down to nearest 5')
1/hour - 12375' Run