Grizzly the Archer's page

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TarkXT wrote:
And I've been of the mind that players who understand tactics free a gm to make encounters genuinely dangerous and creative rather than the wave after wave of mindless mooks whose lives are encompassed in relatively few dice rolls.

I would love to see examples, in another thread I would think to not derail this one, on what those encounters would be and some possible solutions to them. Too many times have I been in games that have lesser creative encounters that are typically due to the parry pattern emerging as non-cooperarive or non-synergistic.

I actually went the way of the kitsune double life oracle. You do get 2 channel pools, so using them a lot is not an issue.

The only benefit I can see for Oracle 4 is for more life link connections and for the spell list and hex from whichever mystery you go with from spirit guide.

Ravingdork wrote:

Well, I'm not dead, and power seems to have returned to my humble abode. :D

Perfect Tommy wrote:
You can't UMD ring of revelation
What's that now? Did I attempt this on a particular character?

1. Glad to hear you're ok. My family and I also got hit by Irma. Luckily we are near Ft. Lauderdale so it wasn't as bad as it was supposed to be.

2. I think Tommy was referring to my mention of the Ring of Revelation use with UMD for the oracle. It's on the previous page to this.

I don't see why there would be that much issue with it. Your using UMD to emulate a class ability like normal. This has been brought up multiple times. So long as it's used for a revelation from a Mystery you don't have it should work.

As for official, there have been plenty of threads that have it FAQ'd, no response as of yet. Closest to official is this so far from what I've seen.

The Ring of Revelation can be used for a different mystery using the emulate class ability feature. Mark Seifter made a comment on this stions-Here#1802

Louise Bishop wrote:

My experience agrees with this. Usually, you need other abilities to shore up the difference. Life Link, SHield other, mitigation, ext.

The only channel builds that break things up is the Hang over builds for 30ft AoE stun locking to keep party members from taking as much damage.

What type of build is that? Never seen/heard of it before.

What about an oracle (spirit guide) with Life mystery? It seems like it would fit since they match up nicely.

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If you drop the ring of protection to a +3 and dropped the amulet of natural armor to a +3 you'll pick up 28k gp. The amulet of spirits life will cost you 18k gp (since it's slotted with the amulet), leaving you 10k gp. Spend 5k gp on a dusty rose prism for a +1 AC bonus and you have 5k gp left over.

You'll lose 1 AC, but will gain an extra 1d6 to all your channels, and have an extra 5k go to spend. It's not ideal but it's the best I could come up with within the money constraints while leaving everything else.

You can also then get a mithral breastplate (agile) instead of the armored coat. Which would only add 2.5 lbs, which is 5.5 lbs shy of your light load for encumberance purposes. You'll gain more AC this way and have more AC then before the changes.

Finally, you can put on the restless enchantment on the armor for 4500 gp. So now you can sleep in your armor without worrying about donning it.

That is the best I could come up with quickly looking over everything. And you'll have 200gp tender!

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Ravingdork wrote:

Cool concept, Tells! Looks like someone who could readily team up with Kujo or Paegin.

Grizzly the Archer wrote:
I think for the kitsune oracle you having an Amulet of Spirits would help out immensely. Your Life revelations and the spirit abilities from the wandering spirit would both go up 2 levels. Meaning your channels for both channel pools would go up another 1d6 and so forth. Great item for 12k gp.
Would it stack with her other items though? It says "This effect does not stack with other abilities that increase the effective level of mystery or spirit powers."

There's nothing to stack. The phylactery just gives a direct bonus to channeling. Not to the ability that provides it.

So far I see nothing that would increase the actual level of the abilities except this. As such, it works for both channel pools and anything else.

Now, if you wanted to, you could use UMD to emulate a revelation from another mystery, or from life, on a ring of revelation to gain the ability.

I think for the kitsune oracle you having an Amulet of Spirits would help out immensely. Your Life revelations and the spirit abilities from the wandering spirit would both go up 2 levels. Meaning your channels for both channel pools would go up another 1d6 and so forth. Great item for 12k gp.

George Blalock wrote:
Maybe the sails have an obscuring mist ability that cover the ship?

That could be fun. Just like the first Pirates of the Caribbean ship that had the smoke roll in in advance of the ship.

The ship, if its from a company that steals and trades in magical items, should have a smuggling hold of some sort.

Some ideas for the smuggle hold:
-invisible or at least camouflaged with the ship.
-it carries more on the inside than what would normally be allowed.

As for the ship as a whole:
-the ship can go underwater with the added capability of having an air bubble or area of effect of water breathing on the ship.
-a scope that van look at farther than normal. Perhaps a few miles out.
-a globe of the surrounding area showing weather patterns and possibly other islands, land masses.
-the ship can go faster if everyone does a profession sailor check. Even with no wind.

Since you swapped out kitsune magic for fox shape for Ovoridani you shouldn't have the 3/day dancing lights.

Also, I'm running a similar kitsune life oracle. Do you think picking up swift shapechanger and natural spell would work well for him? I wouldn't be getting them till early to mid teens though. Getting a familiar might also help with the damage spread, but I'm already stretched thin on feats.

Here's what I'm thinking:
1. Fey founding
3. Selective Channeling
5. Realistic likeness
7. Quicken channel
9. Skill focus: religion?
11. Eldritch heritage: arcane (which familiar? Thematically= fox, but...)
13. Swift kitsune shapechanger
15. Natural spell

I did think about quickdraw and weapon finesse but I don't know if It better to have those or to have the familiar. The crafting feat would be nice like your build but again, where?

The natural spell is for fox spellcasting, but I think a ring of eloquence might help for vocal. As for the somatic, no idea. Oracle's don't need a divine focus. And since the kitsune are going heavy in Disguise, you can now change into your other forms as a swift action instead of a standard.

Any thoughts?

Ascalaphus wrote:
Gisher wrote:

Additionally you get the following adjustments due to being Tiny...

• CMB: -2 Penalty (and use Dex Mod instead of Str Mod)
Why do you get Dex instead of Strenth to CMB again?

Tiny creatures and smaller use dex instead of str for CMB.

As well as for climb and for swim. It was in a faq. Here it is

Gisher wrote:
Grizzly the Archer wrote:
So at the end of it all what exactly would be the modifiers for everything?

Fox Shape acts like Beast Shape II so you get...

• +4 Size Bonus to Dexterity
• -2 Penalty to Strength
• +1 Natural Armor Bonus

Additionally you get the following adjustments due to being Tiny...
• CMB: -2 Penalty (and use Dex Mod instead of Str Mod)
• CMD: -2 Penalty
• AC: +2 Size Bonus
• Attack Rolls: +2 Size Bonus
• Fly Skill: +4 Size Bonus
• Stealth Skill: +8 Size bonus

Awesome. I'm also running a kitsune right now and I couldn't fully figure out his armor.

Isn't there something about armor for tiny creatures that's like half armor bonus. Could've sworn I read something about it.

So at the end of it all what exactly would be the modifiers for everything?

I've been looking through some guides and after this weeks battles I'm thinking of changing a few things. We're only level 2 still so I was getting the idea of going Oracle heavy Oradin. I was able to put up a buff on the party but after that I had to withdraw since I'm lacking in offense.

Also it ooks to me like a full double Life oracle even with all its goodies would still just be a giant HP battery and not too much else outside of a supporter. I'm ok with that but I'd rather be a bit more proactive in how I do things.

So I'm deciding between staying the full oracle or going paladin to become an Oradin. I was thinking of just taking 2 levels of paladin but 4 seems netter. Yet, if I do my oracle casting takes a hit and I'm 4 levels behind. If i go that route im not going to be a full caster and im fully accepting the that role. If howver I stay full oracle I can get spells earlier and morw of them and would be able to have more utility I guess. I'm really stuck on this as I'm trying to do as much as I can foe the party while still having a core concept and enjoying the character.

If you need a quick glimpse of each of the builds let me know.
Any advice?

I'm also having issues accessing the files.

meyerwilliam wrote:

Just remember. You cannot have an improved familiar take an archetype(like protector)

If you go kitsune, for flavor you can sit on a party members shoulders as a familiar. Channeling and other things can be done in fox shape.

Sounds like you will have a lot of fun

I was thinking an inevitable arbiter for the improved familiar. Otherwise for a normal one, no clue.

I guess I can channel in fox form. Not sure what else I can do in that form though besides scout. Never dealt with polymorph before.

The other thing is that since we have a druid, a paladin, and one other characyer who can heal himself somewhat in a couple of levels it dorsnt make a lot of sense to go heavy on healing. I'm taking on the primary healing role so the other characters van focus.mlre on other stuff, like killing the bad guys, smite, oyher spells, and so forth.

Since channeling is not wasting my spells I can use those spells to buff and support the party. Plus with me being kitsune with the fox shape bonus feat I can scout ahead, look around and get back to the party with many people not having a clue as to what I did.

Initially I wasn't planning on taking a familiar but because I can do the shared damage and other neat tricks with them I think I'l try it out. Not sure on the familiar though. The thematic choice would be fox, but that means I have no eye in the sky as it were and they can't use wands. For 3 feats: skill focus, eldritch heritage, and improved familiar I could get an inevitable arbiter, but then I would have to be LN and try to convince my DM to get it. On top of burning 3 feats vs 2.

So far I've been a bit more proactive then lazy. Also since I'm a main source for buffing and support that 1 level hurts, even my channeling will take a hit. I'm just trying to figure out if its worth it to be a level behind in revelations, spells, and channeling.

If that's the case I'll probably just stay oracle all the way and pick up a familiar later on.

meyerwilliam wrote:

Check out my thread.

I'm currently level 9, only had one tough fight, when I was stun locked. Soaking damage is easy

Interesting take on the character. Is the toad just for +3 HP for both of you? Also, losing an oracle level kind of hurts for the casting and the like. If I take medium it might be at later levels.

Which hexes, spells, and revelations did you use from each? Never saw slums before.

Whichever is best between the two. I hope to hit mid teens this time around with the character.

So far I'm only level 2. Kitsune life spirit guide oracle. At 3rd I can use the here that help me out. At 4th I'll either go life spirit or something else to help till I hit 7th.

I'm staying life oracle so the barkskin would come from somewhere else.

Also Oracle's get a smaller scale of spells than a cleric. I want to make sure I'm not taking up spots for spells that will only benefit me during a combat situation

@Louise: Nice! However is it worth it overall to use those spell known to keep those spells versus spending the money on getting the gear?

@grandlounge: animal companion? The druids you mean? Would I shield other on him? Or have him (druid) shield other on his companion?

If I do eldritch heritage I would gain 1 familiar via arcane bond. Not sure which, but thematically I would think a fox since I'm kitsune. I can make them bodyguard archetype and get in harm's way feat.

@ Louis: wow, that's pretty nice for AC then. I can mimic mich of this with magic items. However, if I have an amulet of natural armor, that's a +5 enhancement. Where do I get the other natural armor from based off what you showed the +7 Natural Armor?

I figure by level 12:
+10 base
+5 dex
+6 armor
+5 armor enhancement
+2 shield
+5 shield enhancement
+5 deflection bonus
+5 Natural armor
= 43 AC

@grandlounge: If I'm sure on sticking with the oracle what's the easiest way of getting the familiar, eldritch heritage? Which channeling abilities are you referring to to spread it around?

@Louis Bishop: how were you getting the AC that high and provoking AoO? Just walking through threatened squares?

After having a couple of sessions I've seen the party makeup and whatever lacking and ehat role I sorta need to fill. We have a paladin (he wants to use he's LoH primarily for smite), druid, alchemists poisoned, a large frontline guy, another melee warrior, and a swashbuckler.

We have besides me 2-3 other sub healers if they wanted to. I'm going to focus on buffing the party and helping when I can. I do agree with what some of you have said about channeling not being that effective at higher levels as it won't scale well. I would have to go full-time into that role to mitigate as much damage as I could.

So my current path options look to be as follows:

1. Stay as the full life oracle spirit guided with Life spirit. Focus on channels, buffing the party, doing support.

2. Pick up a familiar (2 feats needed to get this, skill focus and eldritch heritage). Allow my familiar to be a damage sponge. Anything else I can do with them? (Never had a familiar or animal companion before). Cast party buffs and help out the party best I can via casting.

Thus far I'm a Kitsune Oracle Level 2 with the Life Mystery.

I picked up a UMD trait, finding haleen for +1 To HP and skills, and blessed touch to gain +1 for healing.

Actual kitsune= base disguise
Fox= gets a +10 racial to look like a fox?
A specific human= +55
Any other human= ?
Any other race= +41

Seems about right.

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Looks good. When did you take the realistic likeness feat?

Also, I noticed you didn't take fey founding for the extra +2hp heal per die rolled when you heal. With all the channeling you'll do looks like a great feat.

Ravingdork wrote:
Grizzly the Archer wrote:
Can't you get fox shape from the kitsune race replacement for kitsune magic?

Ooh, good idea! Think I'll do that. The enchantment DC is nice, but fox shape is just SO thematic!

Grizzly the Archer wrote:
Also, how are you going from a +23 disguise to a +43 disguise with change shape when it's a +10 bonus? What am I missing here?

+10 circumstance bonus to appear as a specific humanoid from the Realistic Likeness feat. Technically, her own human form qualifies as a "specific humanoid" since there's only one of her.

You can see the full breakdown here.

No problem! I did the same thing and went fox shape. It really came i handy for doing some quick recon ahead. Quick question, since it's a standard action to change into fox What is it to cha he back to human or fox humanoid? Immediate, standard, ...?

I had my first session with my kitsune double life oracle and it worked amazingly. Almost died though from something else but as for combat it worked beautifully. In 3 channel use I healed party members up 5hp, and 2 of the channels was to deal with the undead that came shambling towards us. I took out 3 myself, and damage another enough for another party member to clean up. Glorious! Only issue i see for low levels is attacking with my Morningstar because I have a -8 Str and now at level 2, my full attack bonus is +0.

Also, how are you going from a +23 disguise to a +43 disguise with change shape when it's a +10 bonus? What am I missing here?

Can't you get fox shape from the kitsune race replacement for kitsune magic?

Is there any way to change the energy type (fire) from purifying channel into another energy type?

At level 4 I get back the spells I traded away. After that I have gained more but lost nothing. By taking quicken channel, I can channel as a move action and use my standard to cast spells.

There's no point to life link at level 1 I would only be able to use it for 1 use then cut it off before I possibly die myself. I can gain revelation oyher ways till I get it permanently at a higher level. It's use with shield other is really good.

It's a custom campaign where magic is a bit in the lower end or more scarce I think. We are a group of 6 or 7 players, so I think we will need the healing more, even if we have a few divine casters. However those casters, a ranger, paladin, and druid wont necessarily be buffing and only rarely healing if they need to.

For stats I'm thinking:

Str: 12 - 2 kitsune= 10
Dex: 12 + 2= 14
Con: 16
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 18 + 2 kitsune= 20

I'm assuming since I'll have a low strength I'm rarely going to use a weapon.

I can take 3 traits (1 drawback). I'm going to take Dangerously Curious to get UMD. I'm mot sure on the other 2 though.

As for feats:
1. Fey Foundling
3. Selective Channeling
5. Quicken Channeling
7. Beacon of hope
9. Reactive healing
11. Extra revelation: life link (Oracle's is better than the Spirit Guide version)

I'll switch out the kitsune magic so that I can become a fox as Beast Shape II, so I can recon or stealth somewhere if need be.

My only issue is picking spells known. I'm going to keep away from the cure spells because I can perhaps get a wand of CLW and bless hopefully. Plus with all the channeling, life link, and such I don't think I'll need the cure spells to be known

I'm looking for good spells to buff/debuff, help out the party though. Anything interesting?

andreww wrote:
One thing to bear in mind is that the bonus from Milani is a morale bonus so will not stack with heroism or good hope which are both pretty common buffs.

Ah. That's true. Good catch.

In that case am I better better off going for Pharasma and using those spells? Or Pharasma and still using thoae spells vut in a wand or scroll, freeing up spells known for other buffs/spells?

I think I might do a wand of bless instead of wasting a spell known since Oracle's get less spells known vs. A cleric which knows them all from their list.

Ectar wrote:

Go kitsune and pick up the wrecking mysticism curse. Let's you trade away your mystery spells (which you get anyway from the life wandering spirit) for magical tail feats for cool SLAs. Otherwise you end up with knowing the same list of extra spells known twice.

Do you have a chosen deity? If not, I propose either Pharasma or Milani for their awesome channel feats: Pharasma and Milani

More good feat choices: Bless Equipment, Improved, and Greater

I think I like the bonuses for Milani more than the reroll. As for bless weapon that's not bad but we have a large party. Even with all the extra channels I have from 2 pools of it I don't think I'll have enough for that as well.

As for kitsune, it's not get those spell like abilities but wouldnt it be better to have an extra feat earlier for going human or custom race?


After going back and forth over what type of character I wanted to play I decided on the the Spirit Guide double life oracle. I'm going to be buffing the party and taking on the main healing role. However, I'm stuck on what race to be. I can go human for the extra feat, elf for the Class bonus option, or kitsune for some extra SLA per day, or create my own race with about 11-12 points.

The feats I plan on taking would be fey foundling, selective channeling, quicken channeling. I'm unsure about reactive healing (for emergencies) and beacon of hope (to buff the party while I channel).

I want to be efficient and contribute as much as I can to the group. I figure getting quicken channel soon will allow me more extra action economy to buff the party and debuff enemies. I'm just not sure which race to take. The Human, kitsune, and custom race are the top choices. The only reason for the elf is because the DM masse some special plant version of them that can gain some abilities. I'm leaning towards human or the custom just so I can have an extra feat, but again, I'm unsure.

If anyone has any insight into a life oracle or tips please drop by and share it. The game is later tonight and I'm stuck on what to do. Thanks for your help.

Nice build but I do have a few questions.

1. Do the 2 sources of channel stack? I thought they don't.

2. how do they get back all the mystery spells? I seemed to have missed that part.

3. Is the only advantage of being kitsune is to gain the Spell-like abilities you get from the tails effectively for free? If so, would it be better to go another race?

@Darkbridger- we have a bomb thrower that's it. We also have a fighter finesse, a paladin smighter, a druid, a melee ranger, and one other. He preferred me in particular to not play an archer but I think in this case we need one or at least a long ranged character. Like a thrower even. I'll make the buffing bars but I'll also make an archer of some sort. He said there are 3 people playing possible secondary healers, but only 2 will actually do it if needed.

@Louise- sounds interesting. I'll have to take a look at it.

@possiblecabbage- wow. That does seem cool. No clue what i would use the feats for then. I'm not sure I'll get away with the kitsune but maybe. Do you happen to have build layer out for it by any chance so I can quickly send it as a rough copy to my DM for his approval?

I spoke to my DM. He says I can create the race to about 12 or 13 Race points. As for the character we agreed upon the buff bard, because the group could use it, but they don't have any large ranged character or a dedicated healer. I'll try to figure out a solution to those 2 issues. Thanks for all your help. I'll make a separate thread for the bard now.

Well by optimized for the group what I mean is they will pick some sort of idea or theme and go with whatever funky class works best for it. One of our players is going to be some hippie type healer who will even heal the enemy, another is going to be some pure vanilla fighter with a pitchfork or a sword even, but later with the sword. Another was going to be a TWF ranger and didn't care which type of weapon he used. So not the best builds, but we help each other out with suggestions, ideas, and item/spells to really amp up their characters. Some of us though tend to visit the boards here, look up optimized builds, and also the faq or errata whenever we can to help out the group. I'm typically one of those people so when I play archers it's never just for damage.

So my main build ideas now are:

1. The buff bard (need to see if the group need a it or if someone else is playing another buffer of sorts.

2. The stamina reach fighter.

3. The oracle/fighter rock thrower (if I can talk to my dm about race).

4. Evangelist. But with which base class?

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

For marshmallows fighter to work your DM has to use the stamina system. Worth considering.

You mentioned Zen archers, you might be interested to look at inquisitors and war priests for archery, a recent thread found that by level 10 they had a quite considerable lead in terms of damage and accuracy over other classes in archery.

War priests with Pharasma's obideince can make interesting thrown dagger users I believe. Add in the startoss line and you can basically AOE with thrown weapons now.

Do you happen to know the thread for the inquisitor and war priest archer?

I typically like playing archers but my dm has said he would prefer me not to play one this time around since I normally play them. Our group is pretty optimized in what they do, even if the character isn't an optimized option.

I tend to play powerful builds to help out the party wherever their lacking. Zen Archer when I was the only real ranged character, CAGM barbarian for when we needed another tank of sorts, trickshot archer fighter to help with maneuvers, etc.

I am partially interested in a bard buffer but not sure how to optimize him.

However, I've always been partial to the Horizon Walker, but I know it's not wonderful and I'm not sure how big a part terrain will come in.

Also, I've looked at evangelist PrC and I like what they get. Is there a good build with those? Zen archer/inquisitor/war priest?

It's seems like an interesting build so long as you know what combat feats you might want to gain temporarily from the feats. I'm not sure what I would take if I did a reach build for instance.

Warpriest is not bad but now that I think on it I'm not sure it would be great.

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master_marshmallow wrote:

Schrodinger's Fighter is a thing.

Most of the components are already covered in the guide:

human (or bastard, required for feat access)
lvl 1:[feat]; [bonus feat]; [bonus combat feat]; Combat Stamina
lvl 2:(Improved Bravery?); Bravery
lvl 3:[bonus combat feat]; Armor Training 1
lvl 4: Barroom Brawler
lvl 5: [feat that definitely isn't Advanced Weapon Training]; Weapon Training 1
lvl 6: [bonus combat feat]
lvl 7: [feat]; Armor Training 2/Advanced Armor Training
lvl 8: [bonus combat feat]
lvl 9: [feat]; Advanced Weapon Training: Abundant Tactics (choose Barroom Brawler
lvl 10: Quick Study (sidebar- here it is appropriate to start taking the feat Advanced Weapon Training for other options, unless you wanted to take it earlier and retrain out of it at 8th for free instead of paying for it here.)
lvl 11: [feat]; Armor Training 3/Advanced Armor Training
lvl 12: [bonus combat feat]; (retrain old feat to Advanced Weapon Training if you don;t want to pay for it)
lvl 13: [feat]; Advanced Weapon Training

The only items that you really need are the Gloves of Dueling and the Manual of War.

This is obviously just a skeleton build designed to make you versatile, there's a ton of new options and mix-matching with various VMCs can create insane characters.

This seems like a very interesting build. I only saw the guide for fighters. Is there a guide to how the build works? I assume it's strong in most weapon styles. Looking at reach.

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I've already done a pounce CAGM spell sunder barbarian. Twice. I would like to do another one if there was anything new to change about him in recent years. Anything good?

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avr wrote:

1. Decent but not feat-rich so it'd take a while to take off.

2. Doable.
3. You mean a stone oracle with rock throwing, a psychic telekinesis specialist, or a barbarian taking the hurling feats? Any of these is OK but I wouldn't call them the most powerful builds.
4. Bad idea IMO. It's so frustrating when they don't apply, and finishing at 12 you're not going to have instant enemy for most of the game.

Are you asking about other builds which would do similar things?

1. I saw some good reach builds but wasn't sure how to tackle it if they get within my reach.

3. The stone Oracle. I had made a rough build of it years back that allowed yhe rocks sinve they were fragile to have interesting effects.
4. There was a horizon walker/instant enemy build that allowed me to get my fav. Enemy most of the time and to give allies. I'm wondering if it's still viable.

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