maouse's page

Look up "holding a charge" in the Core Rulebook. page 165. You don't get more attacks, it simply applies to subsequent attacks made when and if you get to them.

If your BAB is +6, then you could do a full round attack action which would be at +6 and +1, and each one that hit would discharge a charge and do elemental damage as well as normal damage. If that is your question / wasn't exactly clear. If you have say 8 charges from chill touch because you are 8th level, you could make a +6 touch attack and a +1 touch attack to deliver it two charges in one round, yes. You don't get to deliver all 8 in one round. Next round you could do two more, or one touch attack and one weapon attack, then you'd have 4 or 5 charges left, etc...

Elemental touch, likewise, just "adds damage" on an unarmed strike attack for a number of rounds. If you don't have IUAS, you might be drawing AoO's from these strikes. So it says you get an unarmed attack (which means you don't draw an AoO since it is with the spell). So you can do the unarmed attack at +6 and not draw an AoO, then do a UAS (not Improved, probably, because you might be a mage class), BUT draw an AoO. It is a little hazy on "never apply to more than one weapon" since UAS and claws are technically not the same. Seems like it is a 1/round effect and you can't swap weapons. Meaning a second strike wouldn't get the added damage under that spell, but the next round's attack would/

There is also a Vigilante Ability "Returning Weapon" that works for Unlimited Ammo (thrown):

What they said is probably accurate... tldr. Save up 2.74m gp, make a ring of wishes that will grant a wish every round as a user activated item, and then you don't have to worry about the costs, bump all your stats 5 points, bring into being anything under 25k gold per round (the stat bump process indicates you could combine wish power for enhanced effects)... lol. Some realms have this much gold but simply lack the ambition.

As for crafting: wait until you are level 5 or so and take master craftsman (if allowed). Then you can craft everything using "peanut brittle maker" or "baker".

Skarm

P.S.: To be honest my ex-GM's "rule juggling" was often "countered" by the intervention of the other players who are *simply amazing* and have a much better...

Yeh, I had someone claim DR is doubled versus non-lethal attacks... I was like "WTF? Where in the world did you ever read that, because I've never seen nor heard of it." Suffice to say they could not provide a source that mattered. Something about a Barbarian archetype class ability... I still don't know as they just sort of trailed off... I love using my phone because I can bring things up at table with either google or Pathfinder app (offline) that has most of the important bits. Or, you know, bring up my PDFs and search them.

Point of this ability: You tumble past them, slicing an artery (swift action during a move acrobatics action). You still have an attack action left in the round. You can always turn that into a second move action (withdraw) and stealth back into the shadows. In theory, you would be able to attempt another tumble and slice UC&P... except you don't get two swift actions in a turn.

Combine this with Bullying blow, take a FREE ACTION intimidate, then throw in Twisting Fear (free action) for double the hidden strike damage. You're welcome.

LOL. This is the premise behind the "zapparoo" Sorcerer Magus build. You get a few feats and racial traits and traits that add to Shocking Grasp/CL (and reduce metamagic feat cost by 1). At first level you can do a 4d6+8 Shocking Grasp pretty easily. As you go up levels, you eventually are doing 10d6+20 with it, delivering it through a weapon for a x2 damage multiplier (20d6+40) and eventually empowering it (30d6+60) or maximizing it (160 damage, no save, 2x a round with one quickened). Yeh, it is pretty ugly for a no save first level touch spell... Oh, and can deliver the Sorcerer's as well as the Magus' pool of 1st level spells through your crit heavy weapon (15-20 with keen scabbard or spell). Dip a level(or 3) of Arcanist for a few more castings. Got a build with about 25/day (1st level slots), which is plenty for most days. Of course you will throw in elemental spell metamagic feat around level 5 so you aren't limited to just electric damage. Save your pennies for that quickened spell metamagic rod (or wait for spell perfection feat at level 15). lolz.

maouse wrote:

Any RAW/FAQ on it anywhere?

Yes. I quoted the 'Rules as Written' above.

Anything unclear?

Just the grey area between where I didn't do a normal attack (ok) and still hurt them somehow. OK. I think I can explain it as "not a normal attack" at the very least. Thanks.

technically yes... doing the math on it? ouch, it would probably be 16k or more for the +2. And I am presuming a home game (pfs wouldn't let you).

They are still invisible because they are not stone, because they are not flesh which is all that is affected by the spell.

Yeh, Ex ability - so it's not even a spell like ability or magical (SU) ability. But generally, when it acts like the spell and the spell says "1 round/level or 1 round" the level is the Class Levels instead of Caster Level (levels in Gunslinger, since it originates from that class). No, there isn't really RAW to cover this, per se, explicitly. Fortunately the Fear spell says "level" and not Caster Level... so there is that...

Any RAW/FAQ on it anywhere?

The rules are specific enough in that case. Overflow is lethal. Lethal is treated as hit point damage. So overflow non-lethal is eligible for power attack.

But how do you calculate if you hit in the first place? You do a power attack BEFORE your damage is calculated. Ergo, Power Attack applies to non-lethal attacks as well as lethal attacks. It is just a logical conclusion. You are not going to go back (no RAW FOR IT) and re-calculate the hit. Nor to re-calculate the damage. THUS, if non-lethal overflow happens, and is treated as HP damage, NON-LETHAL is AT FIRST treated as HP Damage when you do the calculation of Damage.

The statement about "effects that do not deal hit point damage" in the Power Attack description have already been pointed out as something completely different. This refers to spell effects that don't damage a target that still require an attack - such as non-hit point dealing touch attacks. ie. You can't take a -2 to hit and do 4 points of damage on a paralysis SU/SA or something that does only Stat damage, blinds, stuns, or otherwise doesn't deal hit point damage. The confusion with non-lethal is DA and your own. Nobody else is confused by this. You never adjust the roll after you declared the attack and calculated damage. No RAW for THAT.

maouse wrote:

avr wrote:

Stephen Ede wrote:

I thought Swarms can't occupy the same space.

swarm subtype wrote:

A swarm can occupy the same space as a creature of any size, since it crawls all over its prey. A swarm can move through squares occupied by enemies and vice versa without impediment, although the swarm provokes an attack of opportunity if it does so.

There's no exception for other swarms there. I think you can actually stack an infinite number of swarms in the same space.

See also the most potent magic item in the game: Pipes of the Sewer, 1150 gp. Take Rich Parents and one other money tree trait in a home game, buy them at first level. Be an Alchemist with 20 Int and Bombs. Summon rat swarms into a pit. 3 a day. Bomb them. You will be level 20 in 333 days (3/day). (Level 11 only takes a reasonable 2 weeks...) Downside: You will be penniless, unless they pay you to catch the rats, of course. Unfortunately, nowhere in RAW do you actually kill any rats when you knock swarms to zero hit points, so this might still be an issue. You could command them all into tiny cages and make them 1/8 HD rats and then bomb them, but I haven't done the math on that (300 per swarm, might work out better this way).

Summoned creatures grant no XP, you have to kill the person summoning them.

They are not summoned, they are attracted, my semantic error, sorry.

I've developed what I refer to as a "Quintessential Saver" build (for PFS) which is the following:

Stats str 10, dex 14, con 14, int 11, wis 14, cha 16

Paladin 2, Monk 2, Brawler 1, Slayer 1, Ranger 1, Gunslinger 1, Infiltrator 1, Shadowdancer 2, Swashbuckler 1, Bard 1, *Daredasher 1*, *Crimson Templar 1*, Champion of the Enlightened 1, Devoted Muse 1, Lantern Bearer 1, Student of Perfection 1,

Rogue 2, Justicator and Grand Marshal as perhaps the last two-four levels. As Daredasher and Crimson Templar take a different deity than Champion of the Enlightened.

Anyway, these combined with a Halfling, give ridiculous saves and a really versatile character with (hopefully) a +16 or better BAB. Throwing in Lucky Halfling and a few Lucky feats, as well as Twist Away and Iron Will or Lightning Reflexes (going to use Ref for Fort in times of need).

Also taking Lessons of Faith (to reroll failed save 1/day) and something to add +1 to Wil or Ref save for Traits.

Can anyone think of a class that I missed that would add nicely to this build? I was attempting not to sack BAB completely, and thus I realize it will have a slightly lower WIL save (24 w/o magic I think) in the end.

Monk bonus feats are dodge and combat reflexes. Looking to throw in toughness for HP boost (later). I think it worked out to a naked 15 AC or something low like that, but can armor up (obviously). I realize I could dump stat most of the other stats and go full CHA, but I didn't want to do that, and numerically it makes no difference to the saves (+5 total). So it eeks out some AC bonus from the monk and a few other things. 4 level points going into CHA and a CHA boost item, will send this to like 36,39,29 (feat dependent) saves. Reroll 1/day on fail, re-roll for friends within 30' 7/day, use dex as fort for evasion on fort saves.

Thoughts and advice on how I could improve this? If you need more information let me know. Things I am looking for are things that allow saves when you wouldn't otherwise get one, or that sort of thing - anything that might give SR? Does that allow a save even if SR fails to protect? Monster traits available to players?

You do not threaten any squares -with the whip- You still threaten normally if you have IU or are holding another melee weapon in the other hand (which is to say 10', not 30', and you can only make AoO with the threatening weapon(s)). I personally prefer a Medium character with a whip, lunge, and a cleave feat tree (less of a target).

I'm going to see if I can address these all.

You are right:
1) As written, you can't heal nonlethal damage. (But the book more often describes reducing nonlethal damage as being healed instead of removed. In fact, I believe that the statement in the next point is the only time nonlethal damage is described as being 'removed' in the CRB.)
2) "When a spell or ability cures hit point damage, it also removes an equal amount of nonlethal damage" does give the idea that they'e two different things. (But they had to somehow identify that you don't remove nonlethal when stat damage was healed.)
3) You do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points. (But nonlethal reduces the amount of lethal damage you can take before you pass out so nonlethal does have an effect on hit points.)
4) It is not referred to as hit point damage. (But again, we're aware that it reduces the amount of damage you can take before you pass out.)

Is there anything in this that you disagree with?

1) when real hit point damage is healed, you remove "real" (non-lethal) hit point damage in equal amounts. 2) This illustrates their similarities, not their difference. One real, one "real." Both healed with the same spell/healing. 3) This, again, is because non-lethal hit point damage is not "real" hit point damage. It is hit point damage. Just not real hit point damage. It is it's own pool. In quotes. Just like real damage, it is "real" in a sense of being hit point damage.

The only confusing part of this entire thing is that they use quotes. Failure to understand the statement "not "real" damage" is the entire cause of confusion. And thanks to rules lawyers, quotes apparently invalidates everything instead of delivering the meaning it is meant to confer. The meaning is quite clear to anyone who does not decide to ignore the "not "real" damage" statement. It means exactly that it is just like real damage, only recorded differently (added up instead of subtracted from). It IS hit point damage, of the not "real" type (non-lethal).

ability check(str roll, dex roll, con roll, int roll, wis roll, cha roll), or a skill check

doesn't say stat check, just check, so caster level check and concentration check would also be valid (up to GM, of course). Unless he mis-quoted it.

Rock Hurling: "The size of the range increment varies with the creature."

Hill Giant Entry: "Special Attacks rock throwing (120 ft.)" - Which basically means the base range for a Hill Giant's throw (1 range increment) is 120 feet. That's a tad better than 10'.

So if it says it, it gets it. If it doesn't (Storm Giant) it doesn't. Some Giants just aren't good with throwing things, some are (basically anything they can pick up becomes a rock once they ball it up).

Stephen Ede wrote:

I thought Swarms can't occupy the same space.

swarm subtype wrote:

A swarm can occupy the same space as a creature of any size, since it crawls all over its prey. A swarm can move through squares occupied by enemies and vice versa without impediment, although the swarm provokes an attack of opportunity if it does so.

There's no exception for other swarms there. I think you can actually stack an infinite number of swarms in the same space.

See also the most potent magic item in the game: Pipes of the Sewer, 1150 gp. Take Rich Parents and one other money tree trait in a home game, buy them at first level. Be an Alchemist with 20 Int and Bombs. Summon rat swarms into a pit. 3 a day. Bomb them. You will be level 20 in 333 days (3/day). (Level 11 only takes a reasonable 2 weeks...) Downside: You will be penniless, unless they pay you to catch the rats, of course. Unfortunately, nowhere in RAW do you actually kill any rats when you knock swarms to zero hit points, so this might still be an issue. You could command them all into tiny cages and make them 1/8 HD rats and then bomb them, but I haven't done the math on that (300 per swarm, might work out better this way).

Warped Savant wrote:

Okay, glad we were able to clear that up...

So, the rules kind of contradict themselves in that the game terms for healing doesn't work with the way that they define nonlethal damage. And since you can't technically heal nonlethal as written your stance is that this is proof that nonlethal doesn't count as hit point damage. Is that correct?
Plus the fact that the statement "When a spell or ability cures hit point damage, it also removes an equal amount of nonlethal damage" references both hit point damage and nonlethal damage as if they're two different things.

Forgive, there's been a lot quoting things back and forth which has lead to a couple of things being brought up for many pages now, all worded with slightly different arguments. Let me know if there's other points that I'm missing.

I don't believe nonlethal damage is hit point damage because hit point damage is defined as damage that reduces hit points. Nonlethal damage doesn't do this.

Also, nonlethal damage is never referred to as hit point damage. It is never treated as hit point damage. It interacts differently with mechanics than hit point damage.

The "Healing Nonlethal Damage" rule is only being discussed at length in the recent posts because of the point of regeneration. I was trying to say that nothing ever "heals" regeneration. However, I realized in posts discussing it that regeneration would qualify as "healing nonlethal" as per the second clause of the "healing nonlethal damage" rule.

In general, the way "healing nonlethal damage" interacts with the other rules has little-to-no impact on the overarching debate of whether or not nonlethal damage is hit point damage. The text of the healing nonlethal damage rule is evidence that they are different concepts, but not necessarily so. The rule can be logically consistent whether or not nonlethal damage is hit point damage.

Well... your VL and VC are going to tell you you are wrong. Every other GM at a Con is going to tell you you are wrong. Everyone on here is trying to tell you you are wrong. So the sooner you admit you are wrong, the better off you will be. It is ok to be wrong, by the way. It is called "learning." To continue to claim "it could be this" when it's been beat to death with 300+ posts (more on other threads) is just you being obtuse and refusing - intentionally - to learn the rules correctly. When the world says "NO" - the answer is probably no. Just the way it goes sometimes. Non-lethal is a kind of hit point damage. It just isn't the same kind as "real" (right out of the rules, they use "real" in quotes) hit point damage. The use of quotes indicates "as if the same, but not exactly." So you're wrong if you think it isn't hit point damage. It is "hit point damage." The same as before, just in quotes because it is non-lethal.

A Stalker Vigilante can take an ability which deals hidden strike damage as non-lethal fear damage if they succeed on an intimidate check and make the opponent(s) shaken.

Does DR/- or DR/x apply to this? It is not direct weapon damage. And DR applies to direct weapon attacks.

Here's the skinny on what's happening:

Dazzling Display: While wielding the weapon in which you have Weapon Focus, you can perform a bewildering show of prowess as a full-round action. Make an Intimidate check to demoralize all foes within 30 feet who can see your display.

Intimidate: Demoralize - You can use this skill to cause an opponent to become shaken for a number of rounds. This shaken condition doesn’t stack with other shaken conditions to make an affected creature frightened. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier.

Success: If you are successful, the target is shaken for one round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten an opponent this way if it is within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you. Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.

Fail: The opponent is not shaken.

Twisting Fear (Ex): Whenever the vigilante causes an opponent to gain the shaken, frightened, or panicked condition, that opponent takes an amount of nonlethal damage equal to the vigilante’s reduced hidden strike damage, as the stress wears upon its body. A creature can’t take damage from twisting fear more than once per round. Panicked creatures that take damage from twisting fear are too winded even to scream as they flee in terror. Only a stalker vigilante can select this talent.

So, does DR apply? You are not actually striking them, it is a mind-affecting effect (not a body one). So I wouldn't think so, even if the damage is "equal to" some damage their weapon does. And point of fact, you don't do weapon damage (thus wouldn't bypass DR/S,P,B, even if this was applied due to wielding a S,P,B weapon), just hidden strike damage. Thoughts?

(ps. the more I think about it the more absurd I think it would be to apply DR to a mind-affecting effect... like does it work against illusions? No. Then why would it work against this? Of course, the whole ability to damage people with intimidate and not hitting an AC is pretty absurd too, but also adding to not being weapon damage and subject to DR that way as well... sigh... )

It literally cannot be stopped by the current gaming mechanics, as stated no kingdom in the game settings could afford the antimagic field to protect itself constantly. So it's up to the GM, obviously, as most things are.

Shhhhh... don't tell the Mana Wasters or Southern Numerians (who don't like magic or tech).

"Don't shake your voodoo sticks at me! Get the (*&^ out of my house!" Seems an appropriate response from anyone. Is she DOING EVIL? Or are you just casting it on her to figure out that she does evil in her spare time? So do many people. What's the point of doing this? You are not catching her "red handed" doing something against the law. Are you just looking for people to murder? That seems sort of evil. Maybe SHE should report you to the authorities!

My approach is: Declare the attack. Roll a percentile. If it is under 50% don't bother rolling an attack. You missed.

You can do the even / odd die roll if you want. Or even toss a coin. But who doesn't like rolling 10 siders. They are fun and pointy!

(move step 3 to step 1... reduces rolls needed 50% of the time)

DR/xyz = "Damage Resistance except against XYZ"

The problem stems from listing something that you are not immune to. "I resist eating all food except cake." FOOD/cake. I take cake to the face - full force.

It got muddied along the way by mis-interpretations and mis-understandings and even a few rule re-writes which just made it work backwards (4.0?). Thankfully, it is easily understood once again.

If all else fails, tell them it works similar to regeneration. The monster regenerates from everything except what is listed after the /. the DR works against weapon damage except what is listed after the /. (and energy damage ignores DR)

You can check your players' wisdom scores by asking if they go to an airport to take a plane somewhere, do they arrive or depart? I mean, they are arriving at the airport, but they want to depart... (from "Big Trouble") If this makes them think about it for more than a minute, don't try explaining DR. Just do the calculations yourself. Sad how many people dumpstat Wisdom in real life.

For instance: Gandalf is supposed to be this divine super power but on screen all he does is cast some cantrips, some low level druid spells, and dual-wield a bastard sword and staff (I use the movies as reference because in the books he does even less!)

Don't forget, the b1tch also saved his "summon monster I/enlarge other combo" for when they were leaving Mordor, making it a 3 month trip in instead of a 30 minute flight. That @sshat Gandalf. Hell, he probably could have cast it more than once even (in and out) if he needed to. What a jerk.

Whenever I think of 20th level Rogue I always think of Autolycus from Xena / Hercules - The Prince of Thieves. Here we have a normal human that can swipe things from anyone, at any time, as easy as taking candy from a baby. Yes, Xena could go swipe for swipe with him because she was basically the star of the show and a bit of a rogue herself, but Hercules never managed the same. Nor did anyone else on the show(s). Palm a gem the size of his fist? No problem. Dance on clothes lines? No problem. Pick a lock without even looking? No problem. All without any magic or Godlike abilities.

A 20th level fighter can break the rules of reality in 20+ ways (Feats). he can conceivably hit everyone within 20' (maybe 25') every round, four times a round, forever. You get a some fireballs every day? I AM A FIREBALL.

So to sum it up: Bruce Campbell plays a 20th level Rogue in Xena and Hercules. He plays a high level fighter in Evil Dead (and Ash vs. Evil). "I said the words! I said the words!"

SteelGuts wrote:

I would rather be « screwed » in roleplay than by a Death Glyph and a 1 on the save roll.

I thought about this a bit more since I posted. My wife recently lost a elf rogue to a massive crit. Happily, her adopted dwarven brother had reincarnate handy. She came back as a dwarf, which decidedly NOT her vision for the character.

In that sense, I think it's not so much RP vs. sudden onset death syndrom. Rather, it's important to feel like you made a conscious choice that lead to the bad stuff.

Killing her once a day and reincarnating her is out of the question for some reason? Elf is 10% of the chart, take 10.

As a player, I HATE when 'cutscene time' takes away player agency. PCs have a myriad of ways they can affect the world in 6 seconds or less, they're (generally) there to be the big damn heroes. If I can't do anything about the BBEG monologuing at us for a minute then sacrificing the princess on the altar of evil right in front of us, because the powers-that-be decided that no, we HAVE to sit back and watch this happen, then I am going to be pissed.

Amen.

I prefer comedy to tragedy. Outright rofflestomping the party is not fun, nor is GM Fiat (the most annoying way to GM is to say "that doesn't apply in this instance because I'm trying to tell a story, shut up and let me do what I want to your characters!).

That said, story telling with tragic events is fine. Timmy fell down the well, can you go rescue him? OK. But annoying "you start out in a pit with all your equipment gone" is not only cliche' it is typically a major annoyance (esp. for higher level characters). Getting the players to the pit, and having the earth quake, forcing a Ref save is perfectly acceptable, IMHO. How tragic! Most of (if not all) the party joins Timmy in the pit!

Making the Ref save 60 so that nobody could possibly make it is not ok. I can only think of two modules that do this sort of thing (ice and fire, respectively) and the ice one still doesn't make much sense to me.

Some people like their coffee black. Some like some sugar and cream. Why do people do anything? Most would be classified as insane by others. People, what a bunch of bastards; Worshiping whomever they want to!

Why anyone would worship anything other than Unity is beyond me. It is easily provable that all of Golarion is a computer simulation/ mental construct of some sort.

Skull and Shackles has optional limb removal and wounding rules. I think the players guide (which has them) is even a free download.

Yep: PZO09000-10E Skull & Shackles Player's Guide. It is under the Peg Leg and Eye Patches on page 4.

It is always up to the GM what rules to use (home games). I would also say that anyone working with debilitating rules should work on a PERCENT of HP rather than a flat number. 50% of HP at level 1 is like 4 or 5. You get a near deadly wound, roll fortitude check to see if they cut anything off. At higher levels it becomes harder to chop things off you. This makes the most sense. (rather than having to kill a 1st level person 3x over just to get a finger off them)

This has the added benefit of making every combat dangerous and memorable. Remember when we started out and that sword gutted you aboard the Revenge? And the time the Fire Ball burnt all the hair off your back? Remember it? My back hair still hasn't grown back! And poor old Lucky still looks like a hell hound! Good times!

The way a certain class uses magic in a fantasy game isn't real enough for you?

^^ this ^^

Melf the Elf, was himself, an Elf.

(this was in 1983. Silly old elf with a golden toothpick that changed into a magic sword, started his own tree community and retired rich)

My Grey Paladin Guide Cardinal's method so far has been to activate the trap and take it to the face. So far, so good. Though she no longer touches anything with a face. Fool her once, and all. "Found another trap!" She says, all to often.

Ps. There's an inquisitor archetype that gets 2d6 sneak attack at 2nd level, which can get another d6 with the accomplished sneak attacker feat, but you need 6 hd. 2 level dip for 3d6 more sneak attack. Yes please.

Not being magical does not mean it does not fill the slot.

Cestus, Gauntlets and Dust Knuckles are all gloves. You could only wear one per hand.

Wrist Launchers pose no conflict.

RAW on that? The only place slots are even mentioned is under magic items. And this is just to limit people who want to do what this guy is doing with mundane items from doing it with magic ones too. 8 fingers? Why can't I wear 8 rings? YOU CAN! BUT ONLY 2 WILL WORK AT A TIME.

That said, the obvious limit is up to the GM. Make a ref check to use the wrist bow without setting off the spring loaded wrist sheath. Dc 30.{24}<wand bounces across the floor>

If this person were an Npc doing the same thing, what alignment would they be?

Pushing lawful obedience and getting the citizens addicted to enforce church attendance and self harm?
Most of our murder hobos would detect that LE Cleric a mile off the Chelish border! My devil has a contract for you to sign pastor John.

(These things seem exactly opposite CG)

I guess "cannot see" and "all activities that rely on vision automatically fail" do not actually say "immune". Ok. Whatever. Pedantic semantics. Blinded = immune to gaze. I guess you just choose not to see it. "Immune = automatic failure"... Nowhere does it say those exact words, but we all understand the meaning.

Gaze attacks state repeatedly they rely on visibility (vision). Ergo, blinded people are immune - unless your contention is now that they automatically fail their saves? After the obvious 50/50 total concealment roll, of course... Not. They are immune.

toastedamphibian wrote:

You don't need magic for that! You need a dead (or soon to be dead) elf maiden, a sewing kit, some knives, and a couple leatherwoking/disguise checks.Rember to cast gentle repose on a regular basis, unless you have a reliable supply of elf maidens.

(Might even be able to Sculpt Corpse on the fleshbag. You know, for variety.)

Hahaha! Well, Ill inform him. We're playing in Cheliax so for 50-100 gold and a trip to the local slave market, he's got his elf or halfling maiden supply.

there is a third party spell that adds meat back to a skeleton. Basically the reverse of the spell that strips it off the bones. Then shape as desired.

Your closest approximation would probably to look into the radiation around where the star fall happened. Lots of similar radiation stuff there. Numeria.

It is possible that these are what attacked the ship. It is generally implied that these are chthullu type critters and beings from beyond.

D20pfsrd has them described. Google em.pathfinderwiki Also has a section on the runestone in tianjing

maouse wrote:

Seems so. Not pfs legal, but home game fine. Home games also get improved invisibility potions since it's a 3rd level summoner spell somewhere.

Why would it not be Society legal?

potions use only 3 spell lists for being crafted in society. Since it doesn't appear on those lists at the "legal" level (3 or less) it can't be crafted (bought) in society play. Likewise this class would not supply society legal personal spells. Crafting in society play is very limited.

from the SRD:

The orc subtype is applied to orcs and creatures related to orcs, such as half-orcs. creatures with the orc subtype have darkvision 60 feet and light sensitivity (half-orcs do not have light sensitivity).

So only the abilities listed in the bloodline are the ones you get, because that's all there is to get from this subtype.

I guess I am looking at orc racial traits. The "including" doesn't seem like an exclusive term. "Including only" or not even saying it at all would be clearer. I do suppose not everyone has orcs of golarion... So just dv n lls. Ok. Thanks, I was just reading to much into it bc I had orcs of gol

Can empower be applied to non spell abilities? What do you add the +2 to to determine spell slot used?

Does the orc subtype from the sorcerer orc bloodline add the entire subtype - stat mods, weapons, etc.... Or just what is mentioned after "including"...

maouse wrote:

The 10 feet is from the "falling" section. Any time one falls 10 feet or more they are considered "falling" per RAW. You can, of course, fall 1 foot. Or 2 feet. But you don't gain the "falling" condition until 10 feet. Then the "falling" condition and rules apply to you. Otherwise, mid stride, falling 1 foot, or 2 feet, don't qualify as "falling" per RAW, even though technically you are "falling" per real life mechanics.

** spoiler omitted **

This is the falling section. No where does it say that a character must fall 10...

if you are falling you can't cast much. So it can be surmised that most movement doesn't apply the falling condition. ie. Less than 10 foot falls are not falling for purposes of game mechanics... Ie.per raw and game mechanics one does not "fall" less than 10 feet.

Seems fine to me. But then I'd just let you snap the thing without jumping at all to get the invisibility portion. We're all falling relative to something. : )

by this logic no spellcaster can ever cast anything other than featherfall/ immediate spells... Not on sound footing. :) anyway, I guess I'll just ask my gm. What I proposed would work as a last resort. Easier to climb 10 feet and drop to activate it.

Seems so. Not pfs legal, but home game fine. Home games also get improved invisibility potions since it's a 3rd level summoner spell somewhere.

So, you declare an attack. You choose to apply power attack. You take a -1 to hit. You roll damage with +2 added. But you missed by 1, So You decide to do non-lethal damage. You mysteriously loose the +2, and now recalculate the attack without the -1 to hit?

If you think this is how combat works you are being silly.

But the claim that you have to declare damage type (lethal or non-lethal) prior to damage resolution is just that. A silly, pedantic, vapid discussion. Consequently, using "order of operations" it is clear to the logical mind that you can use power attack on a melee attack, regardless of what kind of damage you choose to do at the damage resolution stage. What you can't do is take a -1 on your stunning fist and do 2 damage in addition to the stun (but you can add it to the melee strike).

Gallant Armor is just trolling this thread at this point. You do your attack, with power attack, as normal, even if you choose to do nonlethal damage. GA IS JUST BEING OBTUSE ON PURPOSE.

maouse wrote:

Have we bludgeoned this to death yet? Hit point damage can come in two varieties: lethal and non-lethal.

When an ability says "you can choose to do non-lethal damage instead" it doesn't change to some magical "non-HP" based damage system. It is still HP damage. It is just a different type (non-lethal).

So yes, you can use Feats that deal HP damage on non-lethal attacks. (unless it specifically says otherwise). Remember the rule of generality we used to have? More general = accepted. Generally, lethal and non-lethal attacks both do HP damage, unless specified otherwise.

If you completely ignore the text defining hit point damage that makes sense I suppose.

So you are intentionally being obtuse about this? It is not a hard concept. You have HP. Weapons deal damage, it is resolved in HP. If you CHOOSE to do non-lethal, then the damage to the HP goes to a "separate pool of HP" (ie. your non-lethal HP pool). It doesn't turn into magical mystery damage beyond the pale. It is still damage to HP (albeit a non-lethal HP pool). It isn't rocket science.

You don't "completely ignore" anything. You APPLY what you learned from the definition of the Loss of Hit Point section to the "special occasion" when you do non-lethal damage to someone, and thus read the rules for THAT section INCLUDING what you learned from the Loss of Hit Point entry.

"The most common way that your character gets hurt is to take lethal damage and lose hit points" - notice, it states that lethal damage is the most common way to get hurt. Not the only way. And note: damage is pre-typed with "lethal"... and then lose HP (there is no such thing as HP damage, it is lethal or non-lethal damage which reduces HP or stacks up to "fill" a pool of "non-lethal HP"). ...so maybe, if you aren't obtuse, you will also suppose an uncommon way to get hurt is to take non-lethal damage and gain points (to "fill" a non-lethal hp pool). Not rocket science.

Add this:" Nonlethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Lethal Damage:
You can use a melee weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage instead, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll.
Lethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Nonlethal Damage: You can use a weapon that deals nonlethal damage, including an unarmed strike, to deal lethal damage instead, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll."

The two are interchangeable at a character's whim. So explain to me again how they are not the same and simply applied to different HP pools as defined under the OPTION of doing non-lethal damage? Damage is done, then HP are resolved according to the type (lethal or non-lethal).

And the claim that it wouldn't apply to non-lethal attacks falls on it's face when you consider that non-lethal is treated like lethal if it exceeds total max HP. What? Do you roll damage, take out all the modifiers for power attack (including the roll to hit negative), then resolve it, see if you did enough damage to ADD IN the power attack damage as lethal, re-check to see if they actually missed entirely because of the -1, and then apply the power attack damage as lethal damage IF they did hit with the new calculations, because they exceeded the max HP only before the power attack damage was added? Silly stupidity. Quite obtuse.