Can a synthesist/fighter use Boon Companion to achieve a Base Attack Bonus higher than his hit dice?
So, a Synthesist 1/Fighter 4 would normally have a +5 BAB when fused. Does that same character, with Boon Companion, have a +8 BAB when Fused? (+4 from a 5th-level eidolon, +4 from a 4th-level fighter)
Boon Companion
Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class ability.The summoner has neither the animal companion or familiar class ability and thus cannot take the feat boon companion.
I'm playing a synthesist with a medium biped eidolon.
If I choose to spend 2 points to 2 replace 'claw' (d4) attacks with 'slam' (d8) attacks can I then take the Improved Damage evolution with my slams to increase them to 2d6 slams? Is this one purchase of I.D. or two (because I have two claw attacks)?
DJF
Yes, the slam attack should at 2d6 but you only have 1 of them per limbs (arms) evo. So switching the claws from the base form to slam takes you from 2 1d4 attacks to a single 1d8 (or 2d6 w/ ID) attack.
Ahhhh I see now. Thanks for the clarification Mycerious. I have no clue why I didn't put together the idea that slam is a two handed attack. Too bad it doesn't do time-and-a-half strength bonus damage like a two handed weapon.
DJF
But You will get strength-and-a-half as long as it's your only natural attack. That's why it actually costs you EV points to remove your claws for the slam.
Does a synthesist with four legs wielding a lance on a charge do double damage?
I was just thinking of building this same thing, follow up question, can he wield that lance one handed as well?
I looked up the centaur in the bestiary to see if they had any race specific lance rules, as that's the concept eidolon I'm using. Sadly no such ruling listed there either.
So the question still stands, 4 legged synth with a lance, double damage and one handed?
Does the human alternative racial trait "eye for talent" apply to a summoner's eidolon?
You don't get your racial bonus on physical ability scores. Your +2 to strength from being human raises your base from 7 to 9, which is then replaced by the eidolon's score.
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Yep; the best starting strength you can get would be 18, and only by spending two evolution points for the ability increase.
You should note, dumping con on a synthesist WILL kill you. When you fall unconscious, your con will drop from 13+ to 8, resulting in a loss of 2+ hp / level. This can equate to instant death once you have a few levels.
Your con will be more important than your charisma, after all, you won't be casting many spells where DR matters.
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The con gambit isn't a bad one per se; after all you have far higher hp fused than would take to kill a standard PC, and your AC should be untouchable.
I'd use it if I wanted to have lots of skill points (high int) for whatever reason.
Otherwise dumping Int/Str/Dex should be enough on any point buy :).
There again, the monk 1/synth X with 20 Chr/ Wis would be awfully tempting :).
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Well, look at it this way; level 1 summoner. In Eidilon suit, 8 + 1 (con) hp = 9, Eidilon has 6. So 9 + 6 temp hp. You need to be hit for 15 for Eidilon to dismiss, at which point you're at -2. If you are blown in for 21, you're dead; but so are many PCs.
It's not that big of a gambit, and is a bigger gambit late than early (where "if you fall you die"). There again, by level 10 you should be batting 160 hp with AC 38; anyone who can take that out deserves to kill you :).
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No, you have a 13 con "in suit", 8 out (assuming Str/int/Dex 7 con 8 Wis/Chr 20 mega-Lon).
So you have 8 hp (class) + 1 (con) in suit; 8 - 1 out
Eidil has 6.
So if you take 14 damage, you have 1 hp left. So you get to use the 15; no illusion there.
The 14 Con wiz usually has 9 hp; dead @ 23 damage. Not much difference.
Now, my favorite build doesn't do that; I love the dwarven synth, who has a 16 Con. But even that is a bad build once you get size huge (you still end up "lose suit = death").
The wiz is also significantly easier to do damage to; though rarely presents himself as a target. Still, it's a heck of a crit with a *3 weapon that will kill you.
I read the first page, and before I read anymore, I just want to know if any of these questions are ever "officially" answered by paizo.
thanks.
And my question would be, if my constitution is higher than Eidolons, once I summon the eidolon around me, would MY hit points decrease?
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Yes
But you would regain the lost hit points if anything happened to your Eidolon.
Your Con = 16
Eidolon Con = 14
At 10th level you get hit, dropping your eidolon to 1 hp and dropping you to -5 hp. You go unconcious and your eidolon disappears. Your Con immediately goes back back to normal, raising your hp total to +5.
Now that I have read through most of this I still have 2 questions. Mostly trying to visualize how it works.
they both deal with me having a potion of CLW on my person.
So then I fuse with my eidolon and for some reason I decide on serpentine form with no limbs(arms) evolutions. Now I get injured and instead of losing tempory-eidolon-HP I use fused link to sacrifice my own hit points. And now I want to use my potion of CLW. It says I can use my gear, but HOW am I administering this potion to myself?
Do I use my own arms within the serpentine-eidlon suit to retrieve the potion from my body and drink it? And if I can use my hands to retreive and drink a potion, why cant I use those same hands to cast a spell?
Or if I want to give a party member a potion or any other piece of my gear, does it just magically pop out of my eidilon suit? Or does all my gear somehow reside outside the eidolon suit once fused?
Or do we just "hand wave" the details of using gear, and only really think about the mechanics when it comes to spell casting?
Well... Grumpus, if you read all of this monstrosity of a thread, you might see that I (and others) have already asked those questions.
And sadly, we never got any official answers to those, or some others.
There was basically a mexican stand-off between SKR and Ravingdork, which I quoted on the last page (last year, actually), and up until now, RD has been right... No further help/FAQing/clarification whatsoever.
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I've got an Aasimar Summoner(Synthesist) [finally] for my 8th pfs character. raises a few questions that i don't believe have been brought up, b/c now the type of the summoner isn't Humanoid, its Outsider(native)?
Does he keep the access to Daylight, and Resitances to Electricity, Cold, and Acid while in his Eidolon suit?
Can he now cast enlarge person on himself (his eidolon) to be a medium aasimar in a large eidolon suit? ( as an outsider, the Aasimar normally wouldn't qualify... but the eidolon entry states "A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider)," per the FAQ.
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I've got an Aasimar Summoner(Synthesist) [finally] for my 8th pfs character. raises a few questions that i don't believe have been brought up, b/c now the type of the summoner isn't Humanoid, its Outsider(native)?
Does he keep the access to Daylight, and Resitances to Electricity, Cold, and Acid while in his Eidolon suit?
Can he now cast enlarge person on himself (his eidolon) to be a medium aasimar in a large eidolon suit? ( as an outsider, the Aasimar normally wouldn't qualify... but the eidolon entry states "A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider)," per the FAQ.
Neat loophole! I like.
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I've got an Aasimar Summoner(Synthesist) [finally] for my 8th pfs character. raises a few questions that i don't believe have been brought up, b/c now the type of the summoner isn't Humanoid, its Outsider(native)?
Does he keep the access to Daylight, and Resitances to Electricity, Cold, and Acid while in his Eidolon suit?
Can he now cast enlarge person on himself (his eidolon) to be a medium aasimar in a large eidolon suit? ( as an outsider, the Aasimar normally wouldn't qualify... but the eidolon entry states "A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider)," per the FAQ.
While fused, the synthesist loses the benefits of his armor. He counts both as his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist.
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While fused, the synthesist counts as both his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesis.
That rule is stated in 2 places in the Fused Eidolon ability description. So my opinion is that you count as a Outsider(Native) and a Outsider but not as a humanoid as neither of your types is humanoid.
I don't see any reasons why you couldn't use your spell like abilities.
Unrelated: why did noone correct me when I mentioned that mexican stand-off thing? Of course it was between SKR and Seraphimpunk (why did I get you mixed up with RD?).
Related: Diego is right on this one. Original type / outsider.
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I've been absentee for a few months, resettling after moving. so i'm sure the mexican standoff went ignored. There was also the update that came out to Ultimate Magic.
One fun thing I noticed last night which raises a new question for me:
original printing text for fused eidolon from UM:
paragraph 2: "While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon's physical ability scores (strength, dexterity, and constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (intelligence, wisdom, and charisma)."
paizo.com/prd text:
makes no mention of using the eidolon's ability scores. it does say: " The synthesist uses the eidolon's base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon's armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. "
i checked the update document, and don't see the update that effects the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph. So i'm confused at the difference between the original printing, the update, and the one presented on paizo.com/prd which usually incorporates all the update data.
Does this mean they updated the Synthesist to work like the retooled polymorph rules? Or did the old text just get lost by accident?
I really really hope they finally fixed Synthesists to work as the new polymorph rules =)
( and yes, i still disagree with the healing shennanigance, i'm glad to see that they fixed the fast healing evolution to effect the summoner instead of being patently useless to synthesists ).
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oh, and diego, i'm not talking about the synthesist counts as both his original type and outsider, whichever is worse. i'm talking about the eidolon rules, which from the faq remain unchanged. on pg 58 of the APG.
Share Spells (ex): The summoner may cast a spell with a target of "you" on his eidolon (as a spell with the range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner's spell list.
This gets around the outsider type restriction on certain spells.
Yes
But you would regain the lost hit points if anything happened to your Eidolon.
Example:
Your Con = 16
Eidolon Con = 14At 10th level you get hit, dropping your eidolon to 1 hp and dropping you to -5 hp. You go unconcious and your eidolon disappears. Your Con immediately goes back back to normal, raising your hp total to +5.
But how could that ever happen? Your eidolon is supposed to lose all of its hit points before you take any damage if you are a synthesist.
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Yes
But you would regain the lost hit points if anything happened to your Eidolon.
Example:
Your Con = 16
Eidolon Con = 14At 10th level you get hit, dropping your eidolon to 1 hp and dropping you to -5 hp. You go unconcious and your eidolon disappears. Your Con immediately goes back back to normal, raising your hp total to +5.
But how could that ever happen? Your eidolon is supposed to lose all of its hit points before you take any damage if you are a synthesist.
better case is probably you get hit while you're at 1hp and your eidolon is at 1 temporary hp ( due to sharing the damage around with your life link ). you take another 3 points of damage, dismissing your eidolon, and reducing you to -1hp. But because your con is 16 and your eidolon's con is 14, you gain 10 hp due to your eidolon vanaishing, really leaving you at 9 hp?
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hmmh. or are you still at -1, since you wouldn't "gain" hit points, just gain a higher "max hp" value, and be less in danger of dying from blood loss...
just like someone who's at -1 getting bear's endurance cast on them.... ?
( i'm fuzzy on this situation so i'm postulating here )
if you're at full hp, and get an enhancement to con, you don't have to wait around to regain up to your new max hp. you just get a bump in hp. b/c 100% healed is still 100% healed. But what happens when you cast it on someone that's partially healed? do they immediately gain those bonus hp? or do they just gain the Max hp cap, and require healing to fill them up?
thoughts?
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better case is probably you get hit while you're at 1hp and your eidolon is at 1 temporary hp ( due to sharing the damage around with your life link ). you take another 3 points of damage, dismissing your eidolon, and reducing you to -1hp. But because your con is 16 and your eidolon's con is 14, you gain 10 hp due to your eidolon vanaishing, really leaving you at 9 hp?Yes
But you would regain the lost hit points if anything happened to your Eidolon.
Example:
Your Con = 16
Eidolon Con = 14At 10th level you get hit, dropping your eidolon to 1 hp and dropping you to -5 hp. You go unconcious and your eidolon disappears. Your Con immediately goes back back to normal, raising your hp total to +5.
But how could that ever happen? Your eidolon is supposed to lose all of its hit points before you take any damage if you are a synthesist.
That's exactly it. It leaves you conscious and able to take a full withdraw, or able to cast summon eidolon. In fact, with gloves of storing and a lesser rod of quicken, you could cast it as a swift action and continue the fight.
hmmh. or are you still at -1, since you wouldn't "gain" hit points, just gain a higher "max hp" value, and be less in danger of dying from blood loss...
just like someone who's at -1 getting bull's endurance cast on them.... ?
( i'm fuzzy on this situation so i'm postulating here )
For the same reason that casting bear's endurance on an ally gives them an extra 2 hit points per hit die (rather than merely giving them extra max hit points without actually filling them), and for the same reason that a barbarian who gets knocked unconscious while raging will sometimes die instantly, the synthesist can gain hit points from his eidolon being dispelled should his own constitution score be higher than his eidolon's.
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but does it give them an extra 2 hp / hit die? that's the bump they get when fully healed, and i could see their cap going up. i typically bear's endurance allies when they're already fully healed. idk if i've ever done it in game when they're injured, and whether i've given them that 2hp/hit die bonus. they're not temporary hp. a barbarian going unconscious while raging is having his max hp total reduced, because the rage's bonus to con isn't temporary hit points which are lost first, he's losing an additional 2hp/hit die, and going from just unconscious to dead.
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nvm its vague. works either way depending on what you want out of it. when the barb rages and his con goes up, he does gain 2hp/hd right on the spot as a free action. so i guess the spell and the eidolon vanishing function the same: enhancement to con or con increase suddenly gained wouldn't leave you floundering at -1 hp, you'd gain the difference.
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hmmh. or are you still at -1, since you wouldn't "gain" hit points, just gain a higher "max hp" value, and be less in danger of dying from blood loss...
thoughts?
If a character's Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character's hit points also increase or decrease accordingly.
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In fact, with gloves of storing and a lesser rod of quicken, you could cast it as a swift action and continue the fight.
Except that would drop your Con back down, rendering you unconscious ... again. Unless, of course, you had augment summoning.
Ooops, good call.
Hey, Augment Summoning is not a bad feat for a summoner if he can spare it anyway.
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i'm still wondering:
original printing text for fused eidolon from UM:
paragraph 2: "While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon's physical ability scores (strength, dexterity, and constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (intelligence, wisdom, and charisma)."
paizo.com/prd text:
makes no mention of using the eidolon's ability scores. it does say:" The synthesist uses the eidolon's base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon's armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. "
i checked the update document, and don't see the update that effects the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph. So i'm confused at the difference between the original printing, the update, and the one presented on paizo.com/prd which usually incorporates all the update data.
Does this mean they updated the Synthesist to work like the retooled polymorph rules? Or did the old text just get lost by accident?
ie. a synthesist doesn't gain the eidolon's Str, Dex, Con anymore, it just gains the Str/Dex bonus listed on the Eidolon Base Statistics table ?
Seems more confusing now.
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oh, and diego, i'm not talking about the synthesist counts as both his original type and outsider, whichever is worse. i'm talking about the eidolon rules, which from the faq remain unchanged. on pg 58 of the APG.
Share Spells (ex): The summoner may cast a spell with a target of "you" on his eidolon (as a spell with the range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner's spell list.
This gets around the outsider type restriction on certain spells.
Actually you asked:
I've got an Aasimar Summoner(Synthesist) [finally] for my 8th pfs character. raises a few questions that i don't believe have been brought up, b/c now the type of the summoner isn't Humanoid, its Outsider(native)?
...
Can he now cast enlarge person on himself (his eidolon) to be a medium aasimar in a large eidolon suit? ( as an outsider, the Aasimar normally wouldn't qualify... but the eidolon entry states "A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider)," per the FAQ.
An my reply was that you can't as you count as an outsider and the eidolon count as an outsider and Enlarge person target line say: "Target one humanoid creature".
The line you cite has no bearing whatsoever as Enlarge person don't have a target of "you", while what I cited is very pertinent as the fused eidolon count as an Outsider and as the summoner type.To circumvent the limitation the spell need to have "you" under the Target line, like Shield.
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To circumvent the limitation the spell need to have "you" under the Target line, like Shield.
its the second part that's important:
A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider).
Since the synthesist is now the summoner, he can cast enlarge person on himself, even though the eidolon's type is Outsider.
Its in the FAQ plain and simple:
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9obd
though there may be a FAQ forthcoming on using Enlarge Person on your Eidolon.
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For everyone who chose a base form for their synthesist: You LOSE Eidolon Ability picking up the fused eidolon ability which does not grant you a base form. So the base stats for the fused eidolon is 10's and at first level you need to spend 2 to get limbs.
The Fused Eidolon class feature is exactly the same as the Eidolon class feature except where explicitly different. It even counts as the Eidolon class feature when qualifying for feats.
For a reference, look here. It is a very nice post by SKR that explains the reasons behind the logic instead of just saying "make it so."