One Synthesist Summoner Thread to rule them all


Rules Questions

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*Brandishes Holy Symbol*

"Back! Back to the pit with you foul undead monstrosity!"

*chuckle*

To answer your question though, honestly I do not know. At a home game I would let enlarge work but that is simply a knee-jerk call, as I tend to like saying "yes" to my players.

Wish I could be more help.


KalEl el Vigilante wrote:

Greetings:

Here's my question. A synthesist aasimar: can he cast Enlarge Person on himself while suited-up on his Eidolon?

First off, Enlarge Person does not work on Aasimars since they are outsiders. So no, without some feat or trait that will allow you to be treated as human, you can't use enlarge person on yourself.

Scarab Sages

KalEl el Vigilante wrote:

Greetings:

Here's my question. A synthesist aasimar: can he cast Enlarge Person on himself while suited-up on his Eidolon?

Share Spells would allow for the Eidolon's outsider type to ignore the "humanoid" target recquisite. But the Synthesist "He counts both as his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist" and his other type also being Outsider would prevent Share Spells for working at all.

Is it so? Or would Share Spells override Fused Link?

Share Spells wrote:
The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.

Share Spells appears to remove the type restriction entirely, allowing spells that would not normally affect an outsider to do so. An assimar summoner (not a synthesist) would be able to cast Enlarge Person on his eidolon. This does not appear to change when the eidolon is fused.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Incendax74 wrote:
They are limbs, and so are legs. There is also no logical reason for them to issue Errata on a subject that would require further clarification from a prior document almost two years older. If the Errata intended it to be limited to arms, it would say arms instead.

Devs have stated that no FAQ conflicts and in every case they have removed or altered the conflicts.

That statement coupled with the fact they have altered and removed FAQ in the past does invalidate your point. Age doesn't matter, the FAQ is still in full effect.


Artanthos wrote:
An assimar summoner (not a synthesist) would be able to cast Enlarge Person on his eidolon. This does not appear to change when the eidolon is fused.

Thank you Arthanthos (and all before him): the struggling point is a regular summoner (not a synthesist) doesn't have the following line in the description of his base power (Fused Eidolon): "He counts both as his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist."

That's what makes me think an Aasimar Synthesist (he counts as Humanoid because of Share Spells but counts as "whichever is worse", that is Outsider as Aasimar) can't cast Enlarge Person on himself but a Human Synthesist (Humanoid in both cases) would be able.

The same way, a Human Synthesist would be vulnerable to Hold Person (Outsider on one side, Humanoid on the other: the worst is Humanoid) while a Aasimar Synthesist wouldn't (Outsider/Outsider).


But if you pick whatever is worse, then you don't count as a humanoid when targeted by enlarge person?


That's exactly the point of my doubt, Rikkan: wether the Fused Eidolon "counts as worse" archetype trait makes the Eidolon's "Share Spell" moot in the case of an outsider summoner casting Enlarge Person on himself, or not?


Synthesist wrote:
He counts both as his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist. [...] Neither the synthesist nor his eidolon can be targeted separately, as they are fused into one creature
Share spells wrote:
The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list. This ability does not allow the eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells.

You can't target yourself or the eidolon seperatly; share spells affects spells cast on the eidolon, thus share spells does not function for a synthesist. (though RAI it probably should)

Scarab Sages

Rikkan wrote:
Synthesist wrote:
He counts both as his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist. [...] Neither the synthesist nor his eidolon can be targeted separately, as they are fused into one creature
Share spells wrote:
The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list. This ability does not allow the eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells.
You can't target yourself or the eidolon seperatly; share spells affects spells cast on the eidolon, thus share spells does not function for a synthesist. (though RAI it probably should)

FAQ

Not only can the synthesist target himself using Share Spells, the ability removes the type restriction from spells he targets himself with.


Thank you very much, Artanthos. It's a very interesting take, and with a lot of weight to settle the question. Although, because of the wording of the answer, I don't know if it takes into account the possibility of the base summoner NOT being humanoid.

But in the meantime, if nothing else appears, I think we'll play it that way.

Liberty's Edge

Ok, so the question came up, the book says when fused you use the Eidolons stats for Str, Dex and Con and the casters for the Mental stats as the character is fused and the Eidolon is effectively controlled by the caster using its physical stats, but what if the Caster has a higher stat physically than the Eidolon, would you use the higher stat or would that only be applicable as a house rule?

thanks and sorry for the Necro, I just couldn't find an answer elsewhere.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The class says uses the Str, Con and Dex so there is no option the Eidolon supplies those stats. Otherwise a high con would be awesome and probably mandatory for a synthesist.

Magic items that increase your physical abilities still work as you share the effect with the eidolon. Just be careful of the timing when you are casting boosting spells.


Hey guys my GM is telling me that I don't gain evasion and dark vision has a sinthesyst because the synthesist replaces me the eidolon ability and it only gives me strictly the listed abilities in the synthesist archetype, since they don't mention evasion and dark vision I lose these abilieties, is he right?


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No. The synthesist writeup actually DOES mention these abilities, indirectly. "The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon’s special abilities and the eidolon’s evolutions." Special abilities include darkvision and evasion.

Liberty's Edge

Psi51 wrote:

The class says uses the Str, Con and Dex so there is no option the Eidolon supplies those stats. Otherwise a high con would be awesome and probably mandatory for a synthesist.

Magic items that increase your physical abilities still work as you share the effect with the eidolon. Just be careful of the timing when you are casting boosting spells.

ah we may house rule that then, so people are less inclined to create dump stats, and if the caster was tougher (con) than the eidolon he would suddenly become weaker in a manner of speaking.

Shadow Lodge

Been a while, but was wondering if we got clarification on the summoner cap stone ability twin eidolon as a synthesist. Is it just a redundant ability at that point.?


"The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon’s special abilities and the eidolon’s evolutions"
Does this mean that a humanoid Summoner, when fused with his quadruped Eidolon becomes a centaur with 3 pairs of legs and one pair of arms?


No.

And thank you for necroing one of my favorite threads.


Sorry for the necro but I have a question and this seems to be the best place to have it addressed. I am playing a lvl 6 synth in an iron gods campaign and I would like to become a vampire. My question is how would the abilities of the vampire template affect me while I'm fused. Does the eidolon get access to the defensive and offensive abilities and stat increases?

Scarab Sages

Mental stats would increase, physical stats are still replaced by the eidolon.

Eidolon temp hp are determined by CON, character hp are determined by CHA

Character abilities are still usable, just as they were before becoming a vampire. Weaknesses, like sunlight vulnerability, also apply while fused.

Your fast healing will not recover your eidolon’s temp hp.


Artanthos wrote:

Mental stats would increase, physical stats are still replaced by the eidolon.

Eidolon temp hp are determined by CON, character hp are determined by CHA

Character abilities are still usable, just as they were before becoming a vampire. Weaknesses, like sunlight vulnerability, also apply while fused.

Your fast healing will not recover your eidolon’s temp hp.

Ok all of that makes sense the defensive abilities are still confusing me though, would the DR still apply considering my eidiolon would be getting hit and not me? Also what about the weakness to running water?


TheDarkPrince6 wrote:
Artanthos wrote:

Mental stats would increase, physical stats are still replaced by the eidolon.

Eidolon temp hp are determined by CON, character hp are determined by CHA

Character abilities are still usable, just as they were before becoming a vampire. Weaknesses, like sunlight vulnerability, also apply while fused.

Your fast healing will not recover your eidolon’s temp hp.

Ok all of that makes sense the defensive abilities are still confusing me though, would the DR still apply considering my eidiolon would be getting hit and not me? Also what about the weakness to running water?

All special abilities and weaknesses would apply.


Volkard Abendroth wrote:
TheDarkPrince6 wrote:
Artanthos wrote:

Mental stats would increase, physical stats are still replaced by the eidolon.

Eidolon temp hp are determined by CON, character hp are determined by CHA

Character abilities are still usable, just as they were before becoming a vampire. Weaknesses, like sunlight vulnerability, also apply while fused.

Your fast healing will not recover your eidolon’s temp hp.

Ok all of that makes sense the defensive abilities are still confusing me though, would the DR still apply considering my eidiolon would be getting hit and not me? Also what about the weakness to running water?
All special abilities and weaknesses would apply.

Sounds good, thanks


One more question, I was looking at the fused link vs life link abilities. From my understanding the point of life link is to be able to transfer health as an immediate action whenever the eidolon takes enough damage to be killed. Fused link looks to have the same purpose but has the limitation of being a free action but can only be used when the eidolon would be dropped to 0hp. If someone was to hit me and drop my hp to 0 I would not be able to transfer HP as it is not my turn. But if the ability can not be used till my hp would reach 0 how would I ever be able to use this for anything other than something that does damage at the start of my turn?


"Whenever the temporary hit points from his eidolon would be reduced to 0, the summoner can, as a free action, sacrifice any number of his own hit points."

The ability can be used off your turn, because it specifies "Whenever". It's specific vs general. You can't perform most free actions off your turn, but you can perform this one.


Melkiador wrote:

"Whenever the temporary hit points from his eidolon would be reduced to 0, the summoner can, as a free action, sacrifice any number of his own hit points."

The ability can be used off your turn, because it specifies "Whenever". It's specific vs general. You can't perform most free actions off your turn, but you can perform this one.

Awesome thank you all

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