One Synthesist Summoner Thread to rule them all


Rules Questions

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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Toughness feat and the fused synthesist/eidolon's hit point/temp hp total?

I know this was discussed a few pages (and weeks) back, and as it was being debated I remember agreeing with the idea that the feat only affected the summoner's actual hp, not the eidolon's temp total, because toughness grants bonus hp, not bonus temp hp.

But then I got to thinking about it again....

An eidolon's con bonus also grants hp, not temp hp yet, we still use those to calculate its temp hp total, so why not the Toughness feat also?

In terms of 'double dipping' aren't we doing that with con bonus' already? What makes the Toughness bonus unique? If its a special exception I haven't seen it called out specifically.

Thoughts?

P.S. If this topic was already revisited and clarified I apologize in advance, its getting harder to skim all 850+ posts...

Good gaming to all,

DJF


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Also,

Because the synthesist gains the eidolon's special abities and evolutions, does this mean he gets the evasion and darkvision of the eidolon?

DJF


Yes.

Liberty's Edge

Can a synthesist/fighter use Boon Companion to achieve a Base Attack Bonus higher than his hit dice?

So, a Synthesist 1/Fighter 4 would normally have a +5 BAB when fused. Does that same character, with Boon Companion, have a +8 BAB when Fused? (+4 from a 5th-level eidolon, +4 from a 4th-level fighter)


Axebeard wrote:

Can a synthesist/fighter use Boon Companion to achieve a Base Attack Bonus higher than his hit dice?

So, a Synthesist 1/Fighter 4 would normally have a +5 BAB when fused. Does that same character, with Boon Companion, have a +8 BAB when Fused? (+4 from a 5th-level eidolon, +4 from a 4th-level fighter)

Boon Companion

Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class ability.

The summoner has neither the animal companion or familiar class ability and thus cannot take the feat boon companion.

Liberty's Edge

Does a synthesist with four legs wielding a lance on a charge do double damage?


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I'm playing a synthesist with a medium biped eidolon.

If I choose to spend 2 points to 2 replace 'claw' (d4) attacks with 'slam' (d8) attacks can I then take the Improved Damage evolution with my slams to increase them to 2d6 slams? Is this one purchase of I.D. or two (because I have two claw attacks)?

DJF


Dr. Johnny Fever wrote:

I'm playing a synthesist with a medium biped eidolon.

If I choose to spend 2 points to 2 replace 'claw' (d4) attacks with 'slam' (d8) attacks can I then take the Improved Damage evolution with my slams to increase them to 2d6 slams? Is this one purchase of I.D. or two (because I have two claw attacks)?

DJF

Yes, the slam attack should at 2d6 but you only have 1 of them per limbs (arms) evo. So switching the claws from the base form to slam takes you from 2 1d4 attacks to a single 1d8 (or 2d6 w/ ID) attack.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
mycerius wrote:


Yes, the slam attack should at 2d6 but you only have 1 of them per limbs (arms) evo. So switching the claws from the base form to slam takes you from 2 1d4 attacks to a single 1d8 (or 2d6 w/ ID) attack.

Ahhhh I see now. Thanks for the clarification Mycerious. I have no clue why I didn't put together the idea that slam is a two handed attack. Too bad it doesn't do time-and-a-half strength bonus damage like a two handed weapon.

DJF


Dr. Johnny Fever wrote:

Ahhhh I see now. Thanks for the clarification Mycerious. I have no clue why I didn't put together the idea that slam is a two handed attack. Too bad it doesn't do time-and-a-half strength bonus damage like a two handed weapon.

DJF

But You will get strength-and-a-half as long as it's your only natural attack. That's why it actually costs you EV points to remove your claws for the slam.

Grand Lodge

I have looked all through the FAQ, and I've read this exceptionally long post, but I'm still confused.
So a 4 armed synthesist eidolon with bite and with BAB +11 and +13 from str (+24 total) (large) wielding 2 longswords.
1. How would his attacks play out?
2. Since in PFS we can't use multiweapon can he take TWF and ITWF?
3. Does multiattack reduce the -5 on his natural attacks to -2?

spoiler:
I see a large eidolon wielding dual normal sized Longswords with ITWF: +22/+22/+17/+17/+12
Then natural weapons (4 arms with 2 wielding longswords)
claw/claw/bite: +22/+22/+22
(if you could manage 7 limbs you'd get all 5 natural attacks at +22) They are secondary, but multiattack reduces penalty from -5 to -2.

How's my math?


Calypsopoxta wrote:
There's some great open design feats for big E to use a single enormous weapon that's just hilariously hard hitting, but that's all I see in an optimized build for weapon using big E's really.

Any Suggestions? I'm contemplating a silly RAI Titan Mauler/Huge Evolved Synthesist character if my current character dies in my local game (Thinking of going Titan Mauler 6th to use a Colossal Heavy Pick on a Huge Evolved Fused Eidolon for Crit goodness).


Jelani wrote:
Does a synthesist with four legs wielding a lance on a charge do double damage?

I was just thinking of building this same thing, follow up question, can he wield that lance one handed as well?

I looked up the centaur in the bestiary to see if they had any race specific lance rules, as that's the concept eidolon I'm using. Sadly no such ruling listed there either.

So the question still stands, 4 legged synth with a lance, double damage and one handed?


Does the human alternative racial trait "eye for talent" apply to a summoner's eidolon?


Apologies if I'm beating a dead horse or necroing a thread that annoys people...but I'm confused as hell on the basic fundamentals of a synth summoner's ability scores. I understand just about everything else...so here is my issue:

I'm basically considering starting a level 1 synth/summoner. Human.

If I dump my physical stats:

IE:

Str - 7
dex - 7
Con - 8
Wis - 16
Int - 16
Cha - 16

This should be a 20 point setup.

I choose biped, which when fused, looks like this (With human bonus going to str.)

str - 7 (16) (18 - total)
dex - 7 (12)
con - 8 (13)
wis - 16
Int - 16
Cha - 16

Now, if that is correct, what are my actual saves/penalties from my ability scores when fused?

Do I take a -4 to my final Str/Dex and a -2 to my final con?

I'm planning on using a melee weapon, so I'm curious because I don't want to have a 0 bonus score, etc.

Thanks in advance.


You don't get your racial bonus on physical ability scores. Your +2 to strength from being human raises your base from 7 to 9, which is then replaced by the eidolon's score.

Scarab Sages

Yep; the best starting strength you can get would be 18, and only by spending two evolution points for the ability increase.

You should note, dumping con on a synthesist WILL kill you. When you fall unconscious, your con will drop from 13+ to 8, resulting in a loss of 2+ hp / level. This can equate to instant death once you have a few levels.

Your con will be more important than your charisma, after all, you won't be casting many spells where DR matters.


OK, here is a question I haven't seen answered yet:

As a synthesist I used Fused Link ability and channels my own real HP into the eidolon to keep it from dying. Can we then be targeted by a curing effect to restore my own real HP? (Not the temp HP from the Eidolon)


pensivetoast wrote:

OK, here is a question I haven't seen answered yet:

As a synthesist I used Fused Link ability and channels my own real HP into the eidolon to keep it from dying. Can we then be targeted by a curing effect to restore my own real HP? (Not the temp HP from the Eidolon)

Yes. Healing spells work on any living creature including outsiders, the problem is that they don't heal temp hp.

Dark Archive

The con gambit isn't a bad one per se; after all you have far higher hp fused than would take to kill a standard PC, and your AC should be untouchable.

I'd use it if I wanted to have lots of skill points (high int) for whatever reason.

Otherwise dumping Int/Str/Dex should be enough on any point buy :).

There again, the monk 1/synth X with 20 Chr/ Wis would be awfully tempting :).


Thalin wrote:

The con gambit isn't a bad one per se; after all you have far higher hp fused than would take to kill a standard PC, and your AC should be untouchable.

I'd use it if I wanted to have lots of skill points (high int) for whatever reason.

Otherwise dumping Int/Str/Dex should be enough on any point buy :).

There again, the monk 1/synth X with 20 Chr/ Wis would be awfully tempting :).

It is a pretty big gambit, especially if you are starting from first level and your GM likes slow leveling. Any random crits and you are basically killing yourself.

This will likely happen between levels 1 - 3, past that you should be able to survive the errant crit.

I was just in a game where my synthesist got his suit popped due to a crit with a x3 weapon. Double nat 20 by the GM. Luckily I didn't dump con or it was reroll time.

Dark Archive

Well, look at it this way; level 1 summoner. In Eidilon suit, 8 + 1 (con) hp = 9, Eidilon has 6. So 9 + 6 temp hp. You need to be hit for 15 for Eidilon to dismiss, at which point you're at -2. If you are blown in for 21, you're dead; but so are many PCs.

It's not that big of a gambit, and is a bigger gambit late than early (where "if you fall you die"). There again, by level 10 you should be batting 160 hp with AC 38; anyone who can take that out deserves to kill you :).


Thalin wrote:

Well, look at it this way; level 1 summoner. In Eidilon suit, 8 + 1 (con) hp = 9, Eidilon has 6. So 9 + 6 temp hp. You need to be hit for 15 for Eidilon to dismiss, at which point you're at -2. If you are blown in for 21, you're dead; but so are many PCs.

It's not that big of a gambit, and is a bigger gambit late than early (where "if you fall you die"). There again, by level 10 you should be batting 160 hp with AC 38; anyone who can take that out deserves to kill you :).

At level 1 it is only 14 points to pop your suit and if you dumped con to 8 or 7, you'll instantly be disabled. The 15 points is an illusion because when your summoner is down to 1 hp you have to pop the suit.

Say you dumped con to 8. 14 points will pop your suit and bring you down to -1. So you only need another 7 points to kill for a total of 21 points.

If you dumped it to 7, losing 14 hps will pop your suit and bring you down to -2, only 5 more points to kill you. So only 19 points total damage.

At level 1 even sorcerers/wizards with 12 con will as tough as the synth that dumped con to 7. Sorcs/wizs with 14 con will actually be tougher to kill than synths that dump con to 8 or 9.

Dark Archive

No, you have a 13 con "in suit", 8 out (assuming Str/int/Dex 7 con 8 Wis/Chr 20 mega-Lon).

So you have 8 hp (class) + 1 (con) in suit; 8 - 1 out

Eidil has 6.

So if you take 14 damage, you have 1 hp left. So you get to use the 15; no illusion there.

The 14 Con wiz usually has 9 hp; dead @ 23 damage. Not much difference.

Now, my favorite build doesn't do that; I love the dwarven synth, who has a 16 Con. But even that is a bad build once you get size huge (you still end up "lose suit = death").

The wiz is also significantly easier to do damage to; though rarely presents himself as a target. Still, it's a heck of a crit with a *3 weapon that will kill you.


Thalin wrote:

No, you have a 13 con "in suit", 8 out (assuming Str/int/Dex 7 con 8 Wis/Chr 20 mega-Lon).

So you have 8 hp (class) + 1 (con) in suit; 8 - 1 out

Eidil has 6.

So if you take 14 damage, you have 1 hp left. So you get to use the 15; no illusion there.

The 14 Con wiz usually has 9 hp; dead @ 23 damage. Not much difference.

Now, my favorite build doesn't do that; I love the dwarven synth, who has a 16 Con. But even that is a bad build once you get size huge (you still end up "lose suit = death").

The wiz is also significantly easier to do damage to; though rarely presents himself as a target. Still, it's a heck of a crit with a *3 weapon that will kill you.

Once your suit pop you lose hp = con bonus x level. Going from a +1 to a -1 means you lose two hps at level 1. So once the suit pops after you take 14 hps you will instantly be at -1. So yeah the 15 hps is an illusion.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

I read the first page, and before I read anymore, I just want to know if any of these questions are ever "officially" answered by paizo.

thanks.

And my question would be, if my constitution is higher than Eidolons, once I summon the eidolon around me, would MY hit points decrease?

Scarab Sages

Yes

But you would regain the lost hit points if anything happened to your Eidolon.

Example:

Your Con = 16
Eidolon Con = 14

At 10th level you get hit, dropping your eidolon to 1 hp and dropping you to -5 hp. You go unconcious and your eidolon disappears. Your Con immediately goes back back to normal, raising your hp total to +5.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

Now that I have read through most of this I still have 2 questions. Mostly trying to visualize how it works.

they both deal with me having a potion of CLW on my person.

So then I fuse with my eidolon and for some reason I decide on serpentine form with no limbs(arms) evolutions. Now I get injured and instead of losing tempory-eidolon-HP I use fused link to sacrifice my own hit points. And now I want to use my potion of CLW. It says I can use my gear, but HOW am I administering this potion to myself?
Do I use my own arms within the serpentine-eidlon suit to retrieve the potion from my body and drink it? And if I can use my hands to retreive and drink a potion, why cant I use those same hands to cast a spell?

Or if I want to give a party member a potion or any other piece of my gear, does it just magically pop out of my eidilon suit? Or does all my gear somehow reside outside the eidolon suit once fused?

Or do we just "hand wave" the details of using gear, and only really think about the mechanics when it comes to spell casting?


Well... Grumpus, if you read all of this monstrosity of a thread, you might see that I (and others) have already asked those questions.

And sadly, we never got any official answers to those, or some others.

There was basically a mexican stand-off between SKR and Ravingdork, which I quoted on the last page (last year, actually), and up until now, RD has been right... No further help/FAQing/clarification whatsoever.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I've got an Aasimar Summoner(Synthesist) [finally] for my 8th pfs character. raises a few questions that i don't believe have been brought up, b/c now the type of the summoner isn't Humanoid, its Outsider(native)?

Does he keep the access to Daylight, and Resitances to Electricity, Cold, and Acid while in his Eidolon suit?

Can he now cast enlarge person on himself (his eidolon) to be a medium aasimar in a large eidolon suit? ( as an outsider, the Aasimar normally wouldn't qualify... but the eidolon entry states "A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider)," per the FAQ.

Dark Archive

Seraphimpunk wrote:

I've got an Aasimar Summoner(Synthesist) [finally] for my 8th pfs character. raises a few questions that i don't believe have been brought up, b/c now the type of the summoner isn't Humanoid, its Outsider(native)?

Does he keep the access to Daylight, and Resitances to Electricity, Cold, and Acid while in his Eidolon suit?

Can he now cast enlarge person on himself (his eidolon) to be a medium aasimar in a large eidolon suit? ( as an outsider, the Aasimar normally wouldn't qualify... but the eidolon entry states "A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider)," per the FAQ.

Neat loophole! I like.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Seraphimpunk wrote:

I've got an Aasimar Summoner(Synthesist) [finally] for my 8th pfs character. raises a few questions that i don't believe have been brought up, b/c now the type of the summoner isn't Humanoid, its Outsider(native)?

Does he keep the access to Daylight, and Resitances to Electricity, Cold, and Acid while in his Eidolon suit?

Can he now cast enlarge person on himself (his eidolon) to be a medium aasimar in a large eidolon suit? ( as an outsider, the Aasimar normally wouldn't qualify... but the eidolon entry states "A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider)," per the FAQ.

PRD wrote:

While fused, the synthesist loses the benefits of his armor. He counts both as his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist.

....
While fused, the synthesist counts as both his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesis.

That rule is stated in 2 places in the Fused Eidolon ability description. So my opinion is that you count as a Outsider(Native) and a Outsider but not as a humanoid as neither of your types is humanoid.

I don't see any reasons why you couldn't use your spell like abilities.


Unrelated: why did noone correct me when I mentioned that mexican stand-off thing? Of course it was between SKR and Seraphimpunk (why did I get you mixed up with RD?).

Related: Diego is right on this one. Original type / outsider.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I've been absentee for a few months, resettling after moving. so i'm sure the mexican standoff went ignored. There was also the update that came out to Ultimate Magic.

One fun thing I noticed last night which raises a new question for me:

original printing text for fused eidolon from UM:
paragraph 2: "While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon's physical ability scores (strength, dexterity, and constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (intelligence, wisdom, and charisma)."

paizo.com/prd text:
makes no mention of using the eidolon's ability scores. it does say: " The synthesist uses the eidolon's base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon's armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. "

i checked the update document, and don't see the update that effects the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph. So i'm confused at the difference between the original printing, the update, and the one presented on paizo.com/prd which usually incorporates all the update data.

Does this mean they updated the Synthesist to work like the retooled polymorph rules? Or did the old text just get lost by accident?
I really really hope they finally fixed Synthesists to work as the new polymorph rules =)

( and yes, i still disagree with the healing shennanigance, i'm glad to see that they fixed the fast healing evolution to effect the summoner instead of being patently useless to synthesists ).

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

oh, and diego, i'm not talking about the synthesist counts as both his original type and outsider, whichever is worse. i'm talking about the eidolon rules, which from the faq remain unchanged. on pg 58 of the APG.

Share Spells (ex): The summoner may cast a spell with a target of "you" on his eidolon (as a spell with the range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner's spell list.

This gets around the outsider type restriction on certain spells.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Artanthos wrote:

Yes

But you would regain the lost hit points if anything happened to your Eidolon.

Example:

Your Con = 16
Eidolon Con = 14

At 10th level you get hit, dropping your eidolon to 1 hp and dropping you to -5 hp. You go unconcious and your eidolon disappears. Your Con immediately goes back back to normal, raising your hp total to +5.

But how could that ever happen? Your eidolon is supposed to lose all of its hit points before you take any damage if you are a synthesist.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
David knott 242 wrote:
Artanthos wrote:

Yes

But you would regain the lost hit points if anything happened to your Eidolon.

Example:

Your Con = 16
Eidolon Con = 14

At 10th level you get hit, dropping your eidolon to 1 hp and dropping you to -5 hp. You go unconcious and your eidolon disappears. Your Con immediately goes back back to normal, raising your hp total to +5.

But how could that ever happen? Your eidolon is supposed to lose all of its hit points before you take any damage if you are a synthesist.

better case is probably you get hit while you're at 1hp and your eidolon is at 1 temporary hp ( due to sharing the damage around with your life link ). you take another 3 points of damage, dismissing your eidolon, and reducing you to -1hp. But because your con is 16 and your eidolon's con is 14, you gain 10 hp due to your eidolon vanaishing, really leaving you at 9 hp?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

hmmh. or are you still at -1, since you wouldn't "gain" hit points, just gain a higher "max hp" value, and be less in danger of dying from blood loss...

just like someone who's at -1 getting bear's endurance cast on them.... ?
( i'm fuzzy on this situation so i'm postulating here )

if you're at full hp, and get an enhancement to con, you don't have to wait around to regain up to your new max hp. you just get a bump in hp. b/c 100% healed is still 100% healed. But what happens when you cast it on someone that's partially healed? do they immediately gain those bonus hp? or do they just gain the Max hp cap, and require healing to fill them up?

thoughts?

Dark Archive

Seraphimpunk wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
Artanthos wrote:

Yes

But you would regain the lost hit points if anything happened to your Eidolon.

Example:

Your Con = 16
Eidolon Con = 14

At 10th level you get hit, dropping your eidolon to 1 hp and dropping you to -5 hp. You go unconcious and your eidolon disappears. Your Con immediately goes back back to normal, raising your hp total to +5.

But how could that ever happen? Your eidolon is supposed to lose all of its hit points before you take any damage if you are a synthesist.

better case is probably you get hit while you're at 1hp and your eidolon is at 1 temporary hp ( due to sharing the damage around with your life link ). you take another 3 points of damage, dismissing your eidolon, and reducing you to -1hp. But because your con is 16 and your eidolon's con is 14, you gain 10 hp due to your eidolon vanaishing, really leaving you at 9 hp?

That's exactly it. It leaves you conscious and able to take a full withdraw, or able to cast summon eidolon. In fact, with gloves of storing and a lesser rod of quicken, you could cast it as a swift action and continue the fight.

Seraphimpunk wrote:

hmmh. or are you still at -1, since you wouldn't "gain" hit points, just gain a higher "max hp" value, and be less in danger of dying from blood loss...

just like someone who's at -1 getting bull's endurance cast on them.... ?
( i'm fuzzy on this situation so i'm postulating here )

For the same reason that casting bear's endurance on an ally gives them an extra 2 hit points per hit die (rather than merely giving them extra max hit points without actually filling them), and for the same reason that a barbarian who gets knocked unconscious while raging will sometimes die instantly, the synthesist can gain hit points from his eidolon being dispelled should his own constitution score be higher than his eidolon's.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

but does it give them an extra 2 hp / hit die? that's the bump they get when fully healed, and i could see their cap going up. i typically bear's endurance allies when they're already fully healed. idk if i've ever done it in game when they're injured, and whether i've given them that 2hp/hit die bonus. they're not temporary hp. a barbarian going unconscious while raging is having his max hp total reduced, because the rage's bonus to con isn't temporary hit points which are lost first, he's losing an additional 2hp/hit die, and going from just unconscious to dead.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

nvm its vague. works either way depending on what you want out of it. when the barb rages and his con goes up, he does gain 2hp/hd right on the spot as a free action. so i guess the spell and the eidolon vanishing function the same: enhancement to con or con increase suddenly gained wouldn't leave you floundering at -1 hp, you'd gain the difference.

Scarab Sages

Mergy wrote:

In fact, with gloves of storing and a lesser rod of quicken, you could cast it as a swift action and continue the fight.

Except that would drop your Con back down, rendering you unconscious ... again. Unless, of course, you had augment summoning.

Scarab Sages

David knott 242 wrote:


But how could that ever happen? Your eidolon is supposed to lose all of its hit points before you take any damage if you are a synthesist.

Life Link

Scarab Sages

Seraphimpunk wrote:

hmmh. or are you still at -1, since you wouldn't "gain" hit points, just gain a higher "max hp" value, and be less in danger of dying from blood loss...

thoughts?

Constitution

Quote:
If a character's Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character's hit points also increase or decrease accordingly.

Dark Archive

Artanthos wrote:
Mergy wrote:

In fact, with gloves of storing and a lesser rod of quicken, you could cast it as a swift action and continue the fight.

Except that would drop your Con back down, rendering you unconscious ... again. Unless, of course, you had augment summoning.

Ooops, good call.

Hey, Augment Summoning is not a bad feat for a summoner if he can spare it anyway.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

i'm still wondering:

original printing text for fused eidolon from UM:

Quote:


paragraph 2: "While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon's physical ability scores (strength, dexterity, and constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (intelligence, wisdom, and charisma)."

paizo.com/prd text:

makes no mention of using the eidolon's ability scores. it does say:
Quote:

" The synthesist uses the eidolon's base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon's armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. "

i checked the update document, and don't see the update that effects the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph. So i'm confused at the difference between the original printing, the update, and the one presented on paizo.com/prd which usually incorporates all the update data.

Does this mean they updated the Synthesist to work like the retooled polymorph rules? Or did the old text just get lost by accident?

ie. a synthesist doesn't gain the eidolon's Str, Dex, Con anymore, it just gains the Str/Dex bonus listed on the Eidolon Base Statistics table ?

Seems more confusing now.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Seraphimpunk wrote:

oh, and diego, i'm not talking about the synthesist counts as both his original type and outsider, whichever is worse. i'm talking about the eidolon rules, which from the faq remain unchanged. on pg 58 of the APG.

Share Spells (ex): The summoner may cast a spell with a target of "you" on his eidolon (as a spell with the range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner's spell list.

This gets around the outsider type restriction on certain spells.

Actually you asked:

Seraphimpunk wrote:

I've got an Aasimar Summoner(Synthesist) [finally] for my 8th pfs character. raises a few questions that i don't believe have been brought up, b/c now the type of the summoner isn't Humanoid, its Outsider(native)?

...
Can he now cast enlarge person on himself (his eidolon) to be a medium aasimar in a large eidolon suit? ( as an outsider, the Aasimar normally wouldn't qualify... but the eidolon entry states "A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider)," per the FAQ.

An my reply was that you can't as you count as an outsider and the eidolon count as an outsider and Enlarge person target line say: "Target one humanoid creature".

The line you cite has no bearing whatsoever as Enlarge person don't have a target of "you", while what I cited is very pertinent as the fused eidolon count as an Outsider and as the summoner type.

To circumvent the limitation the spell need to have "you" under the Target line, like Shield.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Diego Rossi wrote:


To circumvent the limitation the spell need to have "you" under the Target line, like Shield.

its the second part that's important:

Quote:
A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider).

Since the synthesist is now the summoner, he can cast enlarge person on himself, even though the eidolon's type is Outsider.

Its in the FAQ plain and simple:
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9obd

though there may be a FAQ forthcoming on using Enlarge Person on your Eidolon.


For everyone who chose a base form for their synthesist: You LOSE Eidolon Ability picking up the fused eidolon ability which does not grant you a base form. So the base stats for the fused eidolon is 10's and at first level you need to spend 2 to get limbs.

Scarab Sages

Diasent wrote:
For everyone who chose a base form for their synthesist: You LOSE Eidolon Ability picking up the fused eidolon ability which does not grant you a base form. So the base stats for the fused eidolon is 10's and at first level you need to spend 2 to get limbs.

The Fused Eidolon class feature is exactly the same as the Eidolon class feature except where explicitly different. It even counts as the Eidolon class feature when qualifying for feats.

For a reference, look here. It is a very nice post by SKR that explains the reasons behind the logic instead of just saying "make it so."

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