Pathfinder & 4th Edition


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Carlson wrote:
My personal hope is that just enough players locally drop 3.5E for 4E that I can pick up a bunch of 3.5E stuff second-hand cheap.

A buddy of mine related a story of trying to unload his 3.0 core books at a local Half-Price Books. Under no circumstances would anyone there take the books even for trade as they'd already received piles of them that they knew they wouldn't be able to resell.

- Chris Shadowens

Liberty's Edge

Jason Grubiak wrote:
True...but I still hope they stay 3.5

I'm sure they will for a while, but let's face it.... A lot of people will switch to 4e, new people coming into the game will start with 4e, the only smart choice is to support the then current edition of the game.

But, trust me, I'm none too keen on this 4e crap. It's far too soon for my tastes.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Perhaps for a while they'll add conversion notes for 4th to the Pathfinders after May, then gradually shift over into 4th addition.

They'll have to one day - it's good business sense. As much as it pains some of us 3.5 will fade away and those that don't follow will fail. I have a feeling that Paizo has a plan, and I don't think it'll involve a sudden shift in to 4th gear.


A little of/topic maybe.
But this move explains why some of the latest 3.5 rule books from WotC were so bad, as if made in a rush.
(As Drow of the Underdark for me as a positive exception.)

Liberty's Edge

If anything, I predict Paizo will do a better job of transitioning to the new material than WotC will do with their own products.

Liberty's Edge

Lori B wrote:
If anything, I predict Paizo will do a better job of transitioning to the new material than WotC will do with their own products.

Probably. There's far more of a "human touch" with Paizo that's distinctly missing from WotC.

Scarab Sages

DangerDwarf wrote:
3.5 or 4.0, doesn't matter to me. I'll be running my Pathfinder campaigns using C&C. I have to convert either way, so its all good.

What's C&C?

Liberty's Edge

Castles and Crusades.


I can't afford to buy a whole new edition. The current edition hasn't even finished updating from 3.0. If I entertained the thought of buying into a new edition, how many years would I have to wait to see all my favorite monsters updated?

And then, 2-3 year later, get stuck with 4.5?

I'm done. My remaining purchases will be 3.0 and 3.5 products I haven't yet got (at the top being Magic Item Compendium and Castle Greyhawk).

If I were to invest in a whole new system, I might as well go with Warhammer or Runequest.

Liberty's Edge

fray wrote:
DangerDwarf wrote:
3.5 or 4.0, doesn't matter to me. I'll be running my Pathfinder campaigns using C&C. I have to convert either way, so its all good.
What's C&C?

A music factory? ;)

Scarab Sages

Gurubabaramalamaswami wrote:
I might as well go with Warhammer or Runequest.

My buddy is huge RQ nerd. He loves the new stuff and the fact that they are making so much for it.

I've only played a few times, but I did like it.


fray wrote:
Gurubabaramalamaswami wrote:
I might as well go with Warhammer or Runequest.

My buddy is huge RQ nerd. He loves the new stuff and the fact that they are making so much for it.

I've only played a few times, but I did like it.

It's a nice niche system that's driven by its background. If you don't play in Glorantha, you might as well not play.

Only problem? I've been waiting since AD&D 1st edition for the Runequest guys to do a Griffon Mountain reprint/update. Now that the system is set in Glorantha's Second Age, I can give up waiting.

Runequest was the first system I ever played with rules for decapitation and limb severing.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

I run the APs because I don't have the time available to dedicate to prep my game that I once had. If I have to convert the adventure to suit a differnt rule set then that doesn't really save me any time. so if Paizo moves Pathfinder to 4th ed then I'll switch to the dreaded 4th ed. But if WotC thinks I'm going to pour money into every supplement they churn out as I have over the years then they have another thing coming. WotC may get my core rulebook money but I had already decided that Paizo would be getting most of my other RPG money, this just cinches it.

*as an aside: What then is the point of the WotC's 3.5 Rules Compendium that is due out in October?


Locke1520 wrote:
*as an aside: What then is the point of the WotC's 3.5 Rules Compendium that is due out in October?

Quite a point you got there.

Or maybe there are some conversion rules in there too.
Blow me down
(as a matter of fact please don't)

Liberty's Edge

Locke1520 wrote:
*as an aside: What then is the point of the WotC's 3.5 Rules Compendium that is due out in October?

A parting gift to those that decide not to migrate to 4e?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Paizo are being ominously quiet about this....


Azzy wrote:
fray wrote:
DangerDwarf wrote:
3.5 or 4.0, doesn't matter to me. I'll be running my Pathfinder campaigns using C&C. I have to convert either way, so its all good.
What's C&C?
A music factory? ;)

you're dating yourself with that one.

Scarab Sages

Byron Zibeck wrote:
Paizo are being ominously quiet about this....
Mike McArtor on the second page of this thread wrote:
Not allowed at the moment. Sorry. :\

Scarab Sages

Azzy wrote:
fray wrote:
DangerDwarf wrote:
3.5 or 4.0, doesn't matter to me. I'll be running my Pathfinder campaigns using C&C. I have to convert either way, so its all good.
What's C&C?
A music factory? ;)

Things that make you go hmmmmmm...


Byron Zibeck wrote:
Paizo are being ominously quiet about this....

My guess is they don't want to be sued by Hasbro...Though I bet Sebastian could put them in touch with a good lawyer.

The Exchange

Blackdragon wrote:
Byron Zibeck wrote:
Paizo are being ominously quiet about this....
My guess is they don't want to be sued by Hasbro...Though I bet Sebastian could put them in touch with a good lawyer.

Isn't "good lawyer" an oxymoron. Like "military intelligence".

The Exchange

Blackdragon wrote:
Azzy wrote:
fray wrote:
DangerDwarf wrote:
3.5 or 4.0, doesn't matter to me. I'll be running my Pathfinder campaigns using C&C. I have to convert either way, so its all good.
What's C&C?
A music factory? ;)
you're dating yourself with that one.

Alright, pause.....

Scarab Sages

Blackdragon wrote:
Byron Zibeck wrote:
Paizo are being ominously quiet about this....
My guess is they don't want to be sued by Hasbro...Though I bet Sebastian could put them in touch with a good lawyer.

Plus right now everybody's at a big conference being all busy showing off all their new stuff. And, as Mike said elsewhere, they probably couldn't say anything right now, anyway.

( NDA and all that )

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Byron Zibeck wrote:
Paizo are being ominously quiet about this....

Keep in mind that most of the Paizo staff is busy at GenCon.


Its funny....Im more concerned about the fate of Pathfinder possibly converting (please dont) than I am WotC books converting.

I hope the Paizo people can speak up about the whats going to happen with their products immediatly after WotC gives its offical announcement today after that countdown clock hits Zero on their site.


Jason Grubiak wrote:
Its funny....Im more concerned about the fate of Pathfinder possibly converting (please dont) than I am WotC books converting.

I'm right there with you. I'm not converting to 4th Edition. Just not doing it. I've already invested too much money in 4 (or 3 and a half, but let's be honest) editions of D&D. I like 3.5. It works, and it makes sense to me. I'll continue to buy up old 3.5 material. And I'll continue to support Paizo and Pathfinder as long as they produce 3.5 material. But when they convert, I'm pretty much out the door.


I must admit that I'm curious to see if streamlined rules translates to a "dumbed down" version. There are a few rules that could use a revamp but a drastic dumbing down of the rules would definitly turn me off, as I could always do that on my own. I enjoy rules that work on a principle of common sense and are just complicated enough to add realism to the game. I also wonder who the authors behind the new rule books will be? Will those responsible with the excellent vision behind 3.X edition lead the way into fourth edition, thus repairing flaws to their previous work?

Silver Crusade

if anything hopefully wizards will come out with a 3.5 to 4 conversion book, even if you have to pay for the darn thing. I love D&D & I've liked 3./.5 version of D&D, heck it's what got me back into rpging, minis, the world of gaming again back in 00, but if I'm just gonna sit on a giant stack of books with Wizards of the Coast wording on them, then I for sure am not gonna follow through with 4e.

I may pick up the PH, but that just so I can play in a game as a player, & maybe, I may pick up a DMG so I can DM Paizo adventures (if they convert, which as a earlier post mentions, makes good buisiness sense, you don't see companies releasing anything for 1st or 2nd ed D&D these days, even thou there still a following for them, same with other game related companies), but I for sure will not buy the books like I've done with 3.0/.5 (pretty all of them except for when the FR setting started just becoming super adventures + the new Undermountain book), just a waste of cash if you ask me.

not that gotta have the latest version of D&D is what's important, mind you just the thought of all that anyone puts into a edition, then a couple years later--BAM here comes the newest version (I think Warhammer mini fans can related to that chain)

then again, with the release of 4e, & myself not wanting to fully plunge into right now, that means more cash for miniatures & such, hmmmmmmm might now be a bad trade off afterall, ha ha

RM

Liberty's Edge

Haldir wrote:

if anything hopefully wizards will come out with a 3.5 to 4 conversion book, even if you have to pay for the darn thing. I love D&D & I've liked 3./.5 version of D&D, heck it's what got me back into rpging, minis, the world of gaming again back in 00, but if I'm just gonna sit on a giant stack of books with Wizards of the Coast wording on them, then I for sure am not gonna follow through with 4e.

Didn't they have 3.0->3.5 conversion notes on the website at one point?

Liberty's Edge

Blackdragon wrote:
Azzy wrote:
fray wrote:
DangerDwarf wrote:
3.5 or 4.0, doesn't matter to me. I'll be running my Pathfinder campaigns using C&C. I have to convert either way, so its all good.
What's C&C?
A music factory? ;)
you're dating yourself with that one.

Well, I prefer to date the very best.... Oh, you mean.... ah, never mind. :D


I think I'll let Paizo lead and follow them:

If they decide to pick up 4e, I'll pick up 4e. Maybe the FR books, too, because I like the FR.

If they decide to stick to 3.5, I won't bother with 4e, either.


Heathansson wrote:
Castles and Crusades.

Castles and Crusades is availble here at Paizo. It's fairly rules light, reminded me a lot of 1st edition. In fact it's veryeasy to convert 1e adventures into it. 3rd edition stuff seems a bit more complex, but I haven't converted one so I can't really say.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

If they go with 4th E then I'm gone. I've enough 3.5 and my ideas, to last a good long time. Especially if 4 is closed content.


So 4e is streamlining 3.5 to 1E dropping feats and skills no doubt character sheets will be stat cards and miniature products that can be sold in toys r us, Wal mart and Target. Keep on the borderlands playsets $79.95+ add ons!

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

"dungeon- and adventure-building tools for Dungeon Masters, online magazine content, and a digital game table that lets you play 24/7 on the internet — the perfect option for anyone who can't find time to get together."

I do like this about the upcoming 4e, having more time for PbP than FtF nowadays. Seems They are wanting to cash in on Blizzard's lucrative online trade.

Dark Archive

Festivus wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
Castles and Crusades.

Castles and Crusades is availble here at Paizo. It's fairly rules light, reminded me a lot of 1st edition. In fact it's veryeasy to convert 1e adventures into it. 3rd edition stuff seems a bit more complex, but I haven't converted one so I can't really say.

Its not heard to convert d20 stuff at all to C&C. Ignore the feats and skills and maybe adjust the HP's after level 10. Other then that you can use it straight out of the book.


I have play every addition of the game. I am not quite so old as to have started with Greyhawk. My first setting was the Forgotten Realms. I still have the 1e and 2e box sets with the gazetteers.

When the change from 3.0 to 3.5 happened, I stopped bying Frogotten Realm supplements. In fact, I only jumped to 3.5 three years ago when I started running my planescape campaign. I started using the SRD and finally decided to update because a lot of problems I had with 3.0 got fixed. A few new problems were created, but I like 3.5 overall.

I even picked up Eberron because I like the mix of lost world, steampunk-like tech, and pulp feel.

Now, I am looking forward to Pathfinder. Let's face it, if 4.0 is OGL, Paizo would be dumb to not consider the eventual jump to 4.0. If they do, I will probably get the core rulebooks. That will be all WOTC will get from me though. Pathfinder promises new takes on monsters, new feats, new gods, etc. I don't see why I should spend my money elsewhere. There are enough of us on the boards that are waiting for submission guidelines to offer monsters, races, and the like to populate the world. I look forward to this possibility.

However, part of me fears they will dumb the game down. The new Star Wars rules come to mind. I like the new system for Star Wars because it captures fast action better, but no for D&D. Nevertheless I am hopeful and plan to stick with Piazo and see what happens.


Mactaka wrote:

"dungeon- and adventure-building tools for Dungeon Masters, online magazine content, and a digital game table that lets you play 24/7 on the internet — the perfect option for anyone who can't find time to get together."

I do like this about the upcoming 4e, having more time for PbP than FtF nowadays. Seems They are wanting to cash in on Blizzard's lucrative online trade.

Yea this (the virtual tabletop) is the only reason I would consider the 4E change. If Pazio switches and I don't I will more then likely keep buying the Pathfinder (and Pathfinder chronicles) books just because I like their delicious brains.


Any idea when we will get an unofficial-official word from Eric or James on all this? After the Con?

Liberty's Edge

I think we broke there site....


Look at the Pathfinder blog


Bloody Root wrote:
Any idea when we will get an unofficial-official word from Eric or James on all this? After the Con?

Im guessing once that countdown clock runs down (should be about now) and the 4th edition scoop is official then the folks at Paizo can tell us what is going to happen to Pathfinder and GameMastery moduals.


If the 4e licensing will work like it looks like it might work, then you can bet there'll be a schism in the gaming community. And if that happens, I suspect I'll be staying OGL, and I can only hope I'll be following Paizo's lead in doing so.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I personally would be surprised if Paizo wouldn't switch to 4.0 at the earliest moment, if they have a legal way to do so (licensing issues whatnot).


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

This is how I think Pathfinder will play out.

Pathfinder AP 1 & 2 will be 3.5. No surprises there because 4E isn't completely out until July.

I think Pathfinder AP 3 & 4 will have conversions notes so it can be run under either 3.5 or 4.0. It would be smart for Paizo to cover their bases until the dust from the shake up the the new version settles and there is some sense of who embraces the new version and who becomes 3.5 curmudgeons.

Pathfinder 5 onwards is the undiscovered country. 4.0 will have been out a year at this point and there will be a real sense of what the market will be like at that point because most people will have already decided to either remain with 3.5 or embraced 4.0 by this point. Paizo may have to make a hard decision at this point whether to support both 3.5 / 4.0 or come down what one side or the other for future Pathfinders. You can only do support for both version for so long because the pages dedicated to conversion information takes away from other content.

That is what my crystal ball tells me.


Mactaka wrote:

"dungeon- and adventure-building tools for Dungeon Masters, online magazine content, and a digital game table that lets you play 24/7 on the internet — the perfect option for anyone who can't find time to get together."

I do like this about the upcoming 4e, having more time for PbP than FtF nowadays. Seems They are wanting to cash in on Blizzard's lucrative online trade.

ahh but do you like the idea of a 10 to 12 dollar amonth fee to have access to that digital table..only as long as you keep paying? Thats where i start to get very worried.


I like the idea of 4th edition, I left 3/3.5 behind a couple of years ago, I grew to dislike the system so much that I had quit gaming altogether, then I stumble across Castles and Crusades and it bought me back into active gaming. (Plus it was easy to convert any edition of D&D over to C&C). I'll probably run Pathfinder (a great setting/campaign can easily be adapted no matter what the system) using C&C.

I'll take a look at 4E when it comes out and see if it will fit better with my group, I'll convert if not I can keep using C&C. As long as Pathfinder stays top notch I don't care what system Paizo uses.

I know I won't be buying the dozens and dozens of complete class/race/element/setting books that WotC will throw out, PHB, MM, and DMG will be about it, and any adventures if they look decent.


Mike McArtor wrote:
Marc Radle 81 wrote:

So, Mike - can you give us any more info, now that it looks like 4TH ED is officially coming? I guess it's safe to assume that this is the reason they took Dragon and Dungeon? Did they give you guys any specific idea why they didn't want the mags to continue and herald in 4TH ED like it did all the others?

I know we all have theories - I'm just curious if Mike or any Paizoians can share anything concrete. Of course, they may not be ALLOWED to ...

Not allowed at the moment. Sorry. :\

THANK YOU for the apology, and you are very much forgiven. You people were put in a position I strongly oppose (forced to lie), and the rest of us were flat out lied to (to quote a dear friend).

/d

Liberty's Edge

Poor Paizo staffers … just when it looked like things were calming down for them a bit … they were no longer having to work double shifts on Dungeon/Dragon AND Pathfinder/Gamesmastery – now this! I think they’ll have their work cut out for them (again) in the coming year (or three) sorting this out, whichever path they go.

Well, whatever they decide (and personally I’d hope for keeping with 3.5 for as long as it makes any sort of sense to do so), I know they’ll be keeping up the very good work and high standards we’ve come to expect from them. Thanks guys. [/fanboy]


If Paizo is taking a poll at this time, then I am in the 3.5 wagon.

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