Pathfinder & 4th Edition


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Dark Archive Contributor

Dances With Worgs wrote:
Any idea yet if you folks are staying 3.5 or plan on going 4, now that its apparently a go?

We don't know yet. I'm hoping my fellow Paizonians find out more in Indy (and let me know before they announce it to the world, heh). :)


Mike McArtor wrote:
Dances With Worgs wrote:
Any idea yet if you folks are staying 3.5 or plan on going 4, now that its apparently a go?
We don't know yet. I'm hoping my fellow Paizonians find out more in Indy (and let me know before they announce it to the world, heh). :)

I feel for you being the sentry on this one Mike . . .

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Mike McArtor wrote:
Dances With Worgs wrote:
Any idea yet if you folks are staying 3.5 or plan on going 4, now that its apparently a go?
We don't know yet. I'm hoping my fellow Paizonians find out more in Indy (and let me know before they announce it to the world, heh). :)

4.0 or 40.0, we're with you Mike!

I'll keep buying Paizo products as long as you guys keep pumping 'em out.

Dark Archive Contributor

Thanks guys. ^_^


I just checked all the info I could, and the cat got let out of the bag early, special note: screenshot at enworld http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3702448&postcount=217

And from what I see over at WoTC's site, it's not fake. I'm peeved, especially since Dragon & Dungeon didn't have "ramp up" articles for it, like from 2e to 3e (SOMEONE wasn't paying attention).

/d


Mike McArtor wrote:
Thanks guys. ^_^

You deserve it.

/d


Eyebite wrote:


I'll keep buying Paizo products as long as you guys keep pumping 'em out.

What he said.


Kruelaid wrote:
Eyebite wrote:


I'll keep buying Paizo products as long as you guys keep pumping 'em out.
What he said.

They'll take my subscriber status when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.


From The Miniatures Page (http://theminiaturespage.com/news/519193)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
August 16, 2007 (Renton, WA) – Whether you storm a mad wizard's tower every week or haven't delved into a dungeon since you had a mullet and a mean pair of parachute pants, one thing is certain - millions of D&D players worldwide have anticipated the coming of 4th Edition for many years. Today, Wizards of the Coast confirms that the new edition will launch in May 2008 with the release of the D&D Player's Handbook. A pop culture icon, Dungeons & Dragons is the #1 tabletop roleplaying game in the world, and is revered by legions of gamers of all ages.

The 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons game includes elements familiar to current D&D players, including illustrated rulebooks and pre-painted plastic miniatures. Also releasing next year will be new web-based tools and online community forums through the brand-new Dungeons & Dragons Insider (D&D Insider) digital offering. D&D Insider lowers the barriers of entry for new players while simultaneously offering the depth of play that appeals to veteran players.

The 4th Edition rules emphasize faster game play, offer exciting new character options, and reduce the amount of "prep time" needed to run the game. D&D Insider includes a character creator that lets players design and equip their D&D characters, dungeon- and adventure-building tools for Dungeon Masters, online magazine content, and a digital game table that lets you play 24/7 on the internet — the perfect option for anyone who can't find time to get together.

"We've been gathering player feedback for eight years," said Bill Slavicsek, R&D Director of Roleplaying and Miniatures Games at Wizards of the Coast. "Fourth Edition streamlines parts of the D&D game that are too complex, while enhancing the overall play experience. At its heart, it's still a tabletop game experience. However, D&D Insider makes it easier for players to create characters, run their games, and interact with the rest of the D&D community."

Wizards of the Coast will release two 4th Edition preview books in December and January — Wizards Presents: Classes and Races and Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters. The first live demos of 4th Edition will happen at the D&D Experience gaming convention in Washington D.C. in February 2008. The full scope of 4th Edition books, miniatures, and adventures will be available in the spring and summer of 2008.

Since its first release in 1974, the fantasy roleplaying game Dungeons & Dragons has taken millions of players on imaginary adventures of epic scale. Today, D&D is universally regarded as the original game that created the roleplaying game category, and the inspiration for generations of game designers. D&D is enjoyed by millions of players worldwide, while countless more remember it with fond nostalgia.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Seems like they've published a Press Release early (it happens - someone got screenshots of Eccleston as The Doctor early and the BBC went wild). So it's May 2008 when the 3.5e grognards are born...


Mike, I will continue to support Paizo for however long you are playing CoH. ~grins~ Ah, Hell. Even if you do not play CoH, I will keep supporting you guys (and the girls too)!


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Actually, the release date for the first two manuals appears to be December 18th 2007...
They're already available at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Wizards-Presents-Classes-Michele-Carter/dp/0786948019 /ref=sr_1_1/102-6363971-3121762?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187252782& sr=8-1

Liberty's Edge

Aidan wrote:

Actually, the release date for the first two manuals appears to be December 18th 2007...

They're already available at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Wizards-Presents-Classes-Michele-Carter/dp/0786948019 /ref=sr_1_1/102-6363971-3121762?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187252782& sr=8-1

I would trust a press release before I believe Amazon.

Grand Lodge

And it's down again.

Scarab Sages

As Paizo goes, so go I.

Sovereign Court

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Heathansson wrote:
Now I need a drink.

I'll drink to that...

Dark Archive

3.5 or 4.0, doesn't matter to me. I'll be running my Pathfinder campaigns using C&C. I have to convert either way, so its all good.


Never posted here but here goes...

I have so much 3rd Edition material that there is no way I will be converting to 4th Edition.

What I would really love to see is GameMastery Moduals and Pathfinder remaining 3.5.

I wouldnt be getting any more Wizards of the Coast books but I would still have Paizo's stuff to look foward to.

Whats the chance of that happening?

Dark Archive

It is 100% official. The PHB for 4th edition will be released in May 2008 with the DMG and monster manual following in June and July. Preview manuals "Races and Classes" and "Monsters and Worlds" will be released in December and January. The preview manuals are already available for preorder on Amazon.


Jason Grubiak wrote:
Whats the chance of that happening?

I would say better now that Dungeon is missing. Dragon and Dungeon were big pushers for d20. Most people would probably still be playing 2nd edition if Dungeon had continued releasing modules for it (not that I think one is better than the other, mind you).


Taking Pathfinder and Gamemastery OGL was a very smart move. It gives Paizo the flexibility to stick with 3.5 for as long as its profitable and to move to 4e when they feel it is advantageous to them rather than at WotC's whim.

Now for me, personally, I hope they stick with 3.5/OGL for as long as they profitably can. Their stuff strikes closer to my preferred genre of swords-n-sorcery than anything WotC put out (I prefer not to play the genre of "D&D Fantasy") and it's the content quality that I care about - the adventure plots, setting info, maps, articles, etc. Since I run an OGL game rather than standard D&D, some conversion will always be necessary for me anyway.

Here's hoping that Pathfinder and Gamemastery adventures are a resounding success and Paizo can do what it wants to do as opposed to what if feels it has to do.

BPorter


It's all hogwash and poppycock.
Bah!
Humbug!


sigh i'm going to be sick :(

as I said on the D&D forums I have heard before that 4e was well a ways off, I was hoping that would be at least more than a year

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD 3.5 IS ONL LIKE 4 YEARS OLD! good lord!

3.0 came out in like 2000 didnt it? something like that. I WANT AT LEAST A DECADE OUT OF MY BOOKS BEFORE NEEDING TO UPDATE!


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Fox_Reeveheart wrote:

sigh i'm going to be sick :(

as I said on the D&D forums I have heard before that 4e was well a ways off, I was hoping that would be at least more than a year

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD 3.5 IS ONL LIKE 4 YEARS OLD! good lord!

3.0 came out in like 2000 didnt it? something like that. I WANT AT LEAST A DECADE OUT OF MY BOOKS BEFORE NEEDING TO UPDATE!

Stop with the whining, please...

Actually I don't think your books will stop working. Neither is the D&D police coming to your house to confiscate them, and you won't even have to throw them away. I'm certain you can easily use them for a few more years.

There's adventures enough in old Dungeon issues and at least two upcoming Pathfinder Adventure paths and probaly about a dozen more GamesMastery Modules to last you long enough even if no one will ever make another 3E adventure once 4E is released.

Also, there is this thing called imagination.

Really.

Liberty's Edge

Didn't you hear? The 3.5 books will automatically erase themselves with 4e is released.

Dark Archive Contributor

Darkmeer wrote:
I'm peeved, especially since Dragon & Dungeon didn't have "ramp up" articles for it, like from 2e to 3e (SOMEONE wasn't paying attention).

Yeah, we were kinda hoping to get to do something like that before the end, but Wizards of the Coast wasn't in position to announce anything until now. Alas.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Mike McArtor wrote:
Darkmeer wrote:
I'm peeved, especially since Dragon & Dungeon didn't have "ramp up" articles for it, like from 2e to 3e (SOMEONE wasn't paying attention).
Yeah, we were kinda hoping to get to do something like that before the end, but Wizards of the Coast wasn't in position to announce anything until now. Alas.

So you guys kind of knew this was happening? Which means you are kind of prepared, right?


Mike, does that mean that Paizo wasn't completely taken by surprise at the announcement? I'm not as concerned about who knew what when as I am about the decision to go OGL if that doesn't include the latest edition of the rules....

Liberty's Edge

So, Mike - can you give us any more info, now that it looks like 4TH ED is officially coming? I guess it's safe to assume that this is the reason they took Dragon and Dungeon? Did they give you guys any specific idea why they didn't want the mags to continue and herald in 4TH ED like it did all the others?

I know we all have theories - I'm just curious if Mike or any Paizoians can share anything concrete. Of course, they may not be ALLOWED to ...


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

lol . . .and a whole new can of worms is opened ladies and gents!


DangerDwarf wrote:
3.5 or 4.0, doesn't matter to me. I'll be running my Pathfinder campaigns using C&C. I have to convert either way, so its all good.

Same here. We never switched to 3.0 or 3.5 and still play 2E. I've gotten to the point I can do the conversions in my head. I can't imagin 4.0 (And I'm sure 6 months later 4.5) will be any harder.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens Subscriber

I think we can safely assume that the paizoans, even if they knew about 4e beforehand (which seems plausible given the close contact they have wth the Wizards), they

1. were not allowed to say a thing.
2. probably didn´t know any details.
3. have prepared for 4e as good as they could.

As 4e will be out in May-July next year, this gives plenty of time to prepare for it. I would guess that the second Pathfinder will be all 3.5, as it should be starting in February, if I can count right, and would run to July. Then, with 4e all new and shiny, Paizo happens to start a new Pathfinder campaign using 4e in August.

Stefan


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Stebehil wrote:

I think we can safely assume that the paizoans, even if they knew about 4e beforehand (which seems plausible given the close contact they have wth the Wizards), they

1. were not allowed to say a thing.
2. probably didn´t know any details.
3. have prepared for 4e as good as they could.

As 4e will be out in May-July next year, this gives plenty of time to prepare for it. I would guess that the second Pathfinder will be all 3.5, as it should be starting in February, if I can count right, and would run to July. Then, with 4e all new and shiny, Paizo happens to start a new Pathfinder campaign using 4e in August.

Stefan

Sounds about right to me.


Stebehil wrote:
As 4e will be out in May-July next year, this gives plenty of time to prepare for it. I would guess that the second Pathfinder will be all 3.5, as it should be starting in February, if I can count right, and would run to July. Then, with 4e all new and shiny, Paizo happens to start a new Pathfinder campaign using 4e in August.

I think folks may be missing something here. Now, I'm not up on the OGL and D20 licensing, but I don't think WotC is under any obligation to update the SRDs to 4E. It's entirely possible that WotC will not extend the OGL to 4E.

This would explain WotC pulling in their product licensing. It would also explain Paizo going the OGL route with Gamemastery and Pathfinder, since they can continue publishing material for D&D.


Stebehil wrote:

As 4e will be out in May-July next year, this gives plenty of time to prepare for it. I would guess that the second Pathfinder will be all 3.5, as it should be starting in February, if I can count right, and would run to July. Then, with 4e all new and shiny, Paizo happens to start a new Pathfinder campaign using 4e in August.

Stefan

Yes it is rather convenient don't you think, especially if the rumors are true that the final core book (the Monster Manual) will be coming out in July. I would also think, if WotC isn't the evil Lords of Darkness many think them to be, they would have given Paizo some warning, as the Paizo staff makes a living from this stuff and many of them are friends with those at WotC. My guess is that some of the Paizo staff had an inclination (but not all of them) and they were left out of the details.


Odds are the good folks at Paizo are under gag order to not say anything until the official announcement, so they can't say anything, mo matter what they know. I'm sure there will be a lot of information come tonight...or tomorrow.

I'lkl stick with paizo as long as they stick with 3.5 and OGL. I will not buy into another Edition. I've been through 3, and each time I had a craplopad of material to get rid of. Not gonna happen again.

*sits down on the front porch in his rocking chair, picks up his 3.5E DMG that he still hasn't read entirely, and sips his fine, single-malt scotch*


Well I just read an article that said 4th edition would still be OGL. Having said that, unless they release the OGL before they release the new Core Books, there will be some lag between where companies like paizo and others switch over.

I image this is going to cause a bit of a headache for other companies in the coming year, as alot of players will stop purchasing anything related to 3.5 in the worry that it will not be compatible with 4th edition.

Liberty's Edge

We gotta come up with a catchphrase/nickname for all us "oldsters" sitting on the porch.


Carlson wrote:

I think folks may be missing something here. Now, I'm not up on the OGL and D20 licensing, but I don't think WotC is under any obligation to update the SRDs to 4E. It's entirely possible that WotC will not extend the OGL to 4E.

This would explain WotC pulling in their product licensing. It would also explain Paizo going the OGL route with Gamemastery and Pathfinder, since they can continue publishing material for D&D.

And this is what Im really hoping for the most personally. Since I dont plan on gettign 4th edition I dont want to see Pathfinder, GameMastery (or Dungeon Crawl Classics by Goodman Games for that matter) convert.

Please stay 3.5!!!


Anyway I thought us "oldsters" were called Grognards..Or is that reserved for 1st Edition oldsters?


Heathansson wrote:
We gotta come up with a catchphrase/nickname for all us "oldsters" sitting on the porch.

I think the term you're looking for is "grognard". :)

-The Gneech

Scarab Sages

And my ignorance shines through. I've only heard the term once, it was used to refer to a guy who spent alot of time sitting on his front porch.

I deleted my post, and I apologize for any offense I might have given.

Paizo Employee Senior Software Developer

[inadvertent offensive term and related posts have been removed]


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Carlson wrote:


I think folks may be missing something here. Now, I'm not up on the OGL and D20 licensing, but I don't think WotC is under any obligation to update the SRDs to 4E. It's entirely possible that WotC will not extend the OGL to 4E.

This would explain WotC pulling in their product licensing. It would also explain Paizo going the OGL route with Gamemastery and Pathfinder, since they can continue publishing material for D&D.

Please refer to: http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/11123.html

It seems like 4th Edition will have some sort of OGL: "The Open Gaming License will continue as it has in the past, allowing the use of the rules in other publishers' games."


pres_man wrote:

Well I just read an article that said 4th edition would still be OGL. Having said that, unless they release the OGL before they release the new Core Books, there will be some lag between where companies like paizo and others switch over.

I image this is going to cause a bit of a headache for other companies in the coming year, as alot of players will stop purchasing anything related to 3.5 in the worry that it will not be compatible with 4th edition.

If it's going to be anything like 3.0 Wizards will probably provide the SRD (or even the full rules) to most of the 3rd party publishers before the core books are released. This way 3rd party publishers don't get shafted completely and can start making 4th edition books ready for publishing when the core books come out.

Dark Archive Contributor

Marc Radle 81 wrote:

So, Mike - can you give us any more info, now that it looks like 4TH ED is officially coming? I guess it's safe to assume that this is the reason they took Dragon and Dungeon? Did they give you guys any specific idea why they didn't want the mags to continue and herald in 4TH ED like it did all the others?

I know we all have theories - I'm just curious if Mike or any Paizoians can share anything concrete. Of course, they may not be ALLOWED to ...

Not allowed at the moment. Sorry. :\


One potential positive: as it stands, the last of the 4e core rulebooks releases in July '08, which happens to coincide with the end of the second Pathfinder arc. So, if an SRD is available to Paizo beforehand, they may be able to start the third arc in August '08 on the verge of the next GenCon in the first full month when everyone has all three new core books. A very strong selling point for Paizo, if they can do it!


Mike McArtor wrote:
Not allowed at the moment. Sorry. :\

Whe don't want you whipped Mike.

But please listen to your readers.
But that should be fine (i hope)does it.


Kettite wrote:
One potential positive: as it stands, the last of the 4e core rulebooks releases in July '08, which happens to coincide with the end of the second Pathfinder arc. So, if an SRD is available to Paizo beforehand, they may be able to start the third arc in August '08 on the verge of the next GenCon in the first full month when everyone has all three new core books. A very strong selling point for Paizo, if they can do it!

True...but I still hope they stay 3.5


Kettite wrote:
...in the first full month when everyone has all three new core books. A very strong selling point for Paizo, if they can do it!

Sorry, but not "everyone" will have the 4E cores. Personally, I think Paizo will alienate more players than they'll gain by upgrading to 4E.

3.5E is the fourth edition of the game I've owned (went straight from 2E to 3.5E), as well as the last. My personal hope is that just enough players locally drop 3.5E for 4E that I can pick up a bunch of 3.5E stuff second-hand cheap.


Jason Grubiak wrote:


Anyway I thought us "oldsters" were called Grognards..Or is that reserved for 1st Edition oldsters?

So we're going with the Napoleonic origin of the name (with an RPG twist, of course)? Sweet!

- Chris Shadowens

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