Pathfinder & 4th Edition


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

Really the wrong thread for this question, but it segues from the last post--is there anyone who absolutely only plays with the three core books? No supplements whatsoever? I suppose you could even play without the MM, so long as you understand how to create your own monsters and don't plan on playing published modules.

Liberty's Edge

Chris Perry wrote:

Oh and just in case the glumsters didn't say it yet, I will:

"4e is to WotC what Vista is to Microsoft."

There, my 5-second moment of shared fellowship is done. Back to my previous stance.

I'm hoping it's more like Leopard...

Liberty's Edge

Andrew Turner wrote:
Really the wrong thread for this question, but it segues from the last post--is there anyone who absolutely only plays with the three core books? No supplements whatsoever? I suppose you could even play without the MM, so long as you understand how to create your own monsters and don't plan on playing published modules.

Our group did until we added MIC

Liberty's Edge

JPSTOD wrote:
Our group did until we added MIC

Is that Magic of Incarnum?


Andrew Turner wrote:
JPSTOD wrote:
Our group did until we added MIC
Is that Magic of Incarnum?

Magic Item Compendium

Liberty's Edge

Bray Abbitt wrote:
Andrew Turner wrote:
JPSTOD wrote:
Our group did until we added MIC
Is that Magic of Incarnum?
Magic Item Compendium

Ahhh...

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Ok.

Aside from Mike McArtor, who has been doing a GREAT job holding down the fort in this thread, just about everyone from Paizo is at Gen Con working like dogs during the exhibitor hall hours selling Pathfinder and Planet Stories and GameMastery and etc. After hall hours we've been going to major events like the ENnies, socializing with industry folks, and catching up with old friends. That has not, unfortunately, left us a lot of time to scan the messageboards.

But we've been keeping our ears open, and we've learned a lot about 4th edition.

I am optimistic.

I have reason to believe that, if anything, the 4e OGL will be _more_ permissive than the existing one.

I have reason to believe that the game will experience some fairly necessary streamlining and that I might personally like many of the changes.

I work on Mac computers at home and at work, and have no intention of switching, ever. I've heard some aspects of the Digital Initiative won't work on Macs, so I'm looking at what I know about the game system itself, rather than all of the newfangled electronical doohickeys, which I probably won't get to use anyway.

I'm not all that interested in the new versions of Dragon and Dungeon. YMMV.

I am optimistic.

Optimistic as can be without seeing a final draft of the SRD, and without seeing even a preliminary draft of the rules system itself.

Until both of those factors change, it would be foolish and irresponsible for me to make a decision about whether or not Pathfinder will convert to fourth edition.

I can echo Mike's earlier statement that Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne will be 100% 3.5. As will all GameMastery Modules at least up until May, 2008. I suppose it is possible that we might eventually release 4e "conversions" for the pre-4e material and for the GameMastery Modules, but as I haven't seen the 4e rules yet, I have no idea how onerous conversion will be, and how much staff time it will require. And I'm not sure we're converting (see above).

All of our announced products for the first quarter of 2008 are "rules-light" and should not be adversely affected by the change in edition whether we convert or not. We will be making no significant changes to the announced product schedule.

I'm aware that many Paizo customers will not be converting to 4e. Honestly, before I heard some of the things I've heard at this show, I wasn't sure I wanted to convert either. So I sympathize.

Pathfinder currently plans to support officially sanctioned conversions for Castles & Crusades and True 20, so assuming we DO convert, I suspect it is very likely that we (or some affiliated partner) will provide 3.5 conversion guidelines.

Or we might stick with 3.5. We haven't seen the rules yet, and can't make the decision until we do.

One thing I can say for sure: As a gamer I would be a lot happier with a game that doesn't require two hours of prep-time for four hours of play. I have heard that the new system addresses this problem, and that strikes me as excellent.

If Wizards of the Coast can streamline the rules without robbing the game of its variety and complexity, I will be very impressed.

So far, I am optimistic.

--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing, LLC


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Well said Erik. Thanks for taking the time to give us the feedback. Regardless of the edition change, I am sure Paizo will keep its loyal customers in mind and do good by us.

I appreciate that a great deal.


Thanks for the post, Erik. Some of my players are complaining about 4e already, but I'm not making any decisions until I have more information about the rules.

This part of your post got me particularly excited:

Erik Mona wrote:
Pathfinder currently plans to support officially sanctioned conversions for Castles & Crusades and True 20, so assuming we DO convert, I suspect it is very likely that we (or some affiliated partner) will provide 3.5 conversion guidelines.

...because I had already been considering running Rise of the Runelords with True20 rather than d20. If there is a conversion available, I will be even more likely to do it. Very cool.

Randy


Erik Mona wrote:

Or we might stick with 3.5. We haven't seen the rules yet, and can't make the decision until we do.

One thing I can say for sure: As a gamer I would be a lot happier with a game that doesn't require two hours of prep-time for four hours of play. I have heard that the new system addresses this problem, and that strikes me as excellent.

If Wizards of the Coast can streamline the rules without robbing the game of its variety and complexity, I will be very impressed.

Thank you very much for the update!


Appreciate the update!

One request to consider going forward tho.
Please please don't switch mid adventure path. IF and when it happens make it at a the start of a new series. Heck polling all your subscribers to get some feedback to see who's on board and who's not isn't a bad idea mid 2008.

Such a weird thing I just came back to paizo and Dnd after a long break subbing to Pathfinder then wham! 4e heh should have known something was gonna happen :)

Dark Archive

Erik Mona wrote:
Pathfinder currently plans to support officially sanctioned conversions for Castles & Crusades and True 20

Best

News

Evar!!!


Erik Mona wrote:
As a gamer I would be a lot happier with a game that doesn't require two hours of prep-time for four hours of play.

LOL... a 1:2 ratio would seem like a vast improvement to me!! I must be doing something wrong...

Dark Archive

Erik Mona wrote:
Pathfinder currently plans to support officially sanctioned conversions for Castles & Crusades and True 20

Now that my initial burst of excitement is over. I have a few questions regarding that statement.

1. Are the conversions something you are just considering at this point or is it quite likely to happen?

2. Assuming the conversions do happen, what form will they take? I can wish for actual print versions but thats probably not very likely.

3. And finally. When can we C&C fans expect to see these conversions?

Sovereign Court

Andrew Turner wrote:
Really the wrong thread for this question, but it segues from the last post--is there anyone who absolutely only plays with the three core books? No supplements whatsoever? I suppose you could even play without the MM, so long as you understand how to create your own monsters and don't plan on playing published modules.

I'd say I'm pretty close. We play with the core 3.0 books + 2 prestige classes from the splat books (arcane trickster, knight of the chalice).

In my game with my family we actually punted on the full rules and went with Microlite20.

I have borrowed some of the other books from the King County library (www.kcls.org) (Can I just mention that if you live in the Seattle area, you should sign up and use www.kcls.org. It's like having a free amazon.com - and they deliver it to your local library!)

So I read up on the "warlock" and "scout" and all that other "stuff" and I just never saw the need. Seemed like just variations on the same themes. Same went for the magazines. I subscribed to Dungeon (used tons from there!) but never to Dragon (more rules? I got enough rules already...)

Btw, this was mostly just a matter of time/interest vs. money. The group I mainly play with are all professionals with kids, so it's hard enough to get them together, let alone expect them to buy/read a bunch of supplements. The core books have enough rules on their own for those guys to track.

And we looked at the 3.5 books at the store and just didn't see that much different to warrant a change.

I for one will be very interested in 4e since it sounds like it simplifies the *right* things like Saga did for our Star Wars campaign. I just spent a night and rebuilt everybody's character from the ground up. It was pretty easy actually.

Playing the game is supposed to be about having fun and an excuse to get together with your buddies, not the latest min/max character class/book. IMHO.

Lantern Lodge

4e won't be fully MAC compatible?!

That's crap. Whatever, who needs their stupid digital media! ;) lol


Chris Perry wrote:

Oh and just in case the glumsters didn't say it yet, I will:

"4e is to WotC what Vista is to Microsoft."

There, my 5-second moment of shared fellowship is done. Back to my previous stance.

Yes, and I'll never switch to Vista. XP forever baby! Yay !

Dark Archive Contributor

Thanks Erik, now I have another nugget to work with. I can't wait until you guys get back so I can give you the third degree. ;D


Well, I want to once again thank you Mike, as well as everyone else at Paizo, for keeping us well informed. You're not trying to keep us complacent, you're actively trying to keep us informed about the future, your position, and the state of our money. As a subscriber that's been burned many times before by other companies, it truly does mean a lot to me. Even more so with the struggle it's been recently for me to keep the money for the payment set aside. You guys are great. From a happy consumer and aspiring gaming writer to all of you...

Thanks.


trellian wrote:
Chris Perry wrote:

Oh and just in case the glumsters didn't say it yet, I will:

"4e is to WotC what Vista is to Microsoft."

There, my 5-second moment of shared fellowship is done. Back to my previous stance.

Yes, and I'll never switch to Vista. XP forever baby! Yay !

Heh, it's more like the difference between 32-bit and 64-bit. I went Vista Ultimate with the new laptop, it emulates most 32-bit programs fine (NWN2) but some things (e-Tools) go poof. It's my job to move forward as I'm a tech but XP works well enough for what I need.

But seguing (sp?) back to the game side, if (as Erik says) the next incarnation cuts down on the prep work it'll be impressive. The older I get the less time I have for that. Sometimes finding time just to crack open a gamebook is a victory in itself. :(

---Selvarin (aka Chris Perry)

The Exchange

JPSTOD wrote:
Andrew Turner wrote:
Really the wrong thread for this question, but it segues from the last post--is there anyone who absolutely only plays with the three core books? No supplements whatsoever? I suppose you could even play without the MM, so long as you understand how to create your own monsters and don't plan on playing published modules.
Our group did until we added MIC

My group contains three beginners (in their thirties) and two ex-first/second edition players returning to the game.

We just use the first three for simplicity. Although I may add bits from various sources as they get a handle on the rules. That may take years though at the rate we play.

I am running thru a converted Temple of Elemental Evil campaign which makes things a lot of fun.

Cheers


Andrew Turner wrote:
Really the wrong thread for this question, but it segues from the last post--is there anyone who absolutely only plays with the three core books? No supplements whatsoever?

Yes, my group does just that - unless you count the irreplaceable Dragon and Dungeon magazines from Paizo! I've told my players that I'll consider prestige classes or the suchlike from other supplements on a case-by-case basis, but it hasn't come to that so far.

Erik Mona wrote:

I am optimistic.

Optimistic as can be without seeing a final draft of the SRD, and without seeing even a preliminary draft of the rules system itself.

Until both of those factors change, it would be foolish and irresponsible for me to make a decision about whether or not Pathfinder will convert to fourth edition.

Thanks, Erik - this is exactly how I feel. Really, we have too little information at this point to make any sensible decisions or deductions about 4E. Back during the build-up to 3E, people were making all sorts of wild assumptions based on tidbits of information, which proved unfounded when we saw the whole picture.

I'm cautiously optimistic, and interested to see what 4E offers.


Mike McArtor wrote:
JTStorm wrote:


In the 'mini-download' for us old-timers, have the 3rd level Wizard stated up with 3.5 version stats. Is that even a possibility?
To be completely honest, JTStorm, I don't know. Until we've had a chance to look at 4e we won't know how hard a conversion would be. Sorry it's not much of an answer, but it's also not a cop-out. We just honestly don't know.

Thanks Mike for the answer. I appreciate the honesty. Just please, keep the idea in mind for when the time comes. The main reason I'm getting both Pathfinder and Gamemastery modules is because I love the idea of a new game world from the ground up. The fact that Paizo is doing it makes it that much more appealing.

As I said previously, I'll probably keep doing Pathfinder for those reasons alone. As long as there is enough fluff for the game world, I'll be in.

Dark Archive

Official conversion for C&C and True20 are more exciting news to me than the announcement of 4th edition. Especially True20 because I planned on converting it anyway. Please let us know more.

Dark Archive Contributor

JTStorm wrote:
Thanks Mike for the answer. I appreciate the honesty. Just please, keep the idea in mind for when the time comes.

Will do! We have discussed it a little bit already, but like I said, we don't know any hard facts yet.


Keep us as informed as you guys/galls are doing now, then everybody will stay as happy as can be in the given situation.

(sounds pretty dramatic eh, that last sentence:)


NSTR wrote:
Official conversion for C&C and True20 are more exciting news to me than the announcement of 4th edition.

Me, too; I don't care about 4E at all. However, I run C&C and OD&D(1974), so news of a C&C conversion is great. I hadn't intended to buy Pathfinder, but a C&C conversion may just hook me.


NSTR wrote:
Official conversion for C&C and True20 are more exciting news to me than the announcement of 4th edition. Especially True20 because I planned on converting it anyway. Please let us know more.

I love Castles & Crusades and this official conversion is super news, because I'm very likely to run any future campaigns using C&C instead of 3.5....unless 4E is all that it's hyped to be about streamlining.


Erik Mona wrote:
Pathfinder currently plans to support officially sanctioned conversions for Castles & Crusades and True 20, so assuming we DO convert, I suspect it is very likely that we (or some affiliated partner) will provide 3.5 conversion guidelines.

Some of the best news I've heard in the last few days!

I had very little interest in Pathfinder (sorry) until I read the above and now, knowing that one of my favorite games will be supported within its pages, I will most definitely be purchasing/subscribing!

Fantastic news!

~Scott

Liberty's Edge

Snorter wrote:

What I really wanted, and expected, when I heard of the D&D Minis idea, was that we would finally get figs for the game-specific copyrighted creatures, such as beholders, mind flayers, umber hulks and am baffled why many of the creatures from even the first Monster Manual have yet to be touched upon, or have made a 'blink and you miss it' cameo, before disappearing into deletion.

I also disagree with the random packaging and rarity distribution. A gaming group does not need multiples of hero types from the Good factions, but requires many copies of monsters, especially the goons, thugs and common, social creatures. A lone kobold is no use to anyone; they should be available in packs of a dozen (4 leaders, + 8 warriors, maybe with a split of weapons?)?. Anyone else agree?

Yes. And How. With bells on.

My biggest complaint about the D&D minis is that they're random, blind packaged. I want to know exactly what I'm getting, but furthermore I'd just like to be able to buy a box of hobgoblins, kobolds, etc.

Other complaints is the cheap, rubber plastic used (I'm hip to plastic, but something a little more solid). Bleh! And their prepaintedness (I could get over this if they're easy to strip).

But really, the big thing is the blind, random packaging. No thanks, WotC!

Dark Archive Contributor

Ogma wrote:
I had very little interest in Pathfinder (sorry) until I read the above and now, knowing that one of my favorite games will be supported within its pages, I will most definitely be purchasing/subscribing!

I don't think the support for True20 and C&C will be "within its pages," technically, but rather as a web supplement of some sort. I imagine Green Ronin and Troll Lords will have a hand in the conversions, respectively, since they are the experts. :)

Liberty's Edge

Andrew Turner wrote:
Chris Perry wrote:
... I plan on getting the "Core 4" ...
What's the 4th book?

Psionics, of course. ;)

Liberty's Edge

trellian wrote:
Chris Perry wrote:

Oh and just in case the glumsters didn't say it yet, I will:

"4e is to WotC what Vista is to Microsoft."

Yes, and I'll never switch to Vista. XP forever baby! Yay !

Meh, I'm dual-booting XP Pro and the Xandros distro of Linux. I'll not take the Vista route, myself--if anything I'll just upgrade the Linux side.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Mike McArtor wrote:
William Pall wrote:
I do know that From now until May, the only gaming products I'm going to buy are from Paizo.

YAY!!! :D

You get a cookie!

Heh Well for me it's Paizo, then Green Ronin for the freeport stuff.

Scarab Sages

Ross Byers wrote:

The fact that Hobby store sell things at discount is irrelevant: The discount comes out of their share of the sale, not Paizo's. Paizo is just happy thet the product sold. And they wouldn't sell it to the hobby shop at a price that leaves them losing money on it.

hell i still know peopel who play 1st ed


Mike McArtor wrote:
I don't think the support for True20 and C&C will be "within its pages," technically, but rather as a web supplement of some sort. I imagine Green Ronin and Troll Lords will have a hand in the conversions, respectively, since they are the experts. :)

Consider this another hooray for the conversions...sounds like a good, solid business decision too. Folks can use the crunch they like with the Paizo adventures and plots.

Dark Archive

That's what I was hoping to hear - first two APs will be 3.5 and then Paizo will see whether they want to do the third on in 4.0

Seems like the best and fairest way to do it. Thanks for the info.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
DitheringFool wrote:
know you aren't calling me a WotC-hater, but I readily admit that they are pretty low on my buddy scale.

Glad that you didn't misunderstand me 'cause I wasn't talking to anyone in particular when I used this phrase.

I'm not the biggest WotC-friend either. And it's quite probable that I won't convert to 4E for a long time (I'm DMing two online campaigns which won't most probably finish before 2010; same goes for my home campaign (STAP). Besides, I'll stick with Paizo, and if they decide to stay 3.5, I might do the same. I like 3.5 very much so I understand that not all people have to be happy about this announcement. But "not to be happy" and "to be belligerent/insulting" are two different things for me.

I should preface the following remarks with the statement, that I read and write on several boards so I do not necessarily connect my thoughts to the Paizo-Community which I consider to be one of the best communities I ever had the honor to be a part of.

I read a lot of posts from people stating that they absolutely don't care about the recently published 3.5 books. The Mantra is: Don't need it, don't want it and besides it's a load of crap anyway. I cannot understand why such people should feel offended by the thought of a new edition. Given their own statement, they aren't even customers, so if they decide not to give a shot to 4E nothing changes. But chances are, 4E contains the things they missed in 3.5 (if they missed anything, that is).

The fact (or at least my opinion) is, that WotC published quite some quality products in 2006 and 2007. Fiendish Codex I, Complete Scoundrel, Tome of Magic, to name some, but I also like most of the Eberron stuff. You may not need these products, but that doesn't say anything about their quality. So I see no reason to assume that WotC has forgotten how to make good products. Which goes for 4E as well.

What really pisses me off is that some people seem to dislike the fact that WotC tries to broaden its customer base, especially with respect to MMORPGs. Between the lines you can find a lot of contempt for potentially new customers based on the obvious opinion that those people aren't worthy to step into the ring with us D&D-Veterans (I'm not allowed to call myself a grognard, I think , so veteran it is ;) )
I play MMORPGS (WoW to be exact) and yeah, there are idiots. But I also play Pen&Paper-Games for more than twenty years now, and I have learned that there are idiots , too.
Apart from that, I have met a lot of excellent roleplayers in WoW (age from 13 to 50+)and other MMORPGs, and all those people would make a fine addition to our tables. If you can convince them to join us.

So I see it exactly as Sebastian has already said. I have absolutely no idea if those people can be won over to our hobby. The WOW-RPG was a first step, and I know some people who have bought it to enrich their WoW-characters though they had not the slightest idea what D20/DnD is all about. Electronic Gadgets may be the next step and streamlined rules (if well made) may be another.

But at least, it's worth the try.

Lantern Lodge

WormysQueue wrote:
DitheringFool wrote:
know you aren't calling me a WotC-hater, but I readily admit that they are pretty low on my buddy scale.

Glad that you didn't misunderstand me 'cause I wasn't talking to anyone in particular when I used this phrase.

I'm not the biggest WotC-friend either. And it's quite probable that I won't convert to 4E for a long time (I'm DMing two online campaigns which won't most probably finish before 2010; same goes for my home campaign (STAP). Besides, I'll stick with Paizo, and if they decide to stay 3.5, I might do the same. I like 3.5 very much so I understand that not all people have to be happy about this announcement. But "not to be happy" and "to be belligerent/insulting" are two different things for me.

I should preface the following remarks with the statement, that I read and write on several boards so I do not necessarily connect my thoughts to the Paizo-Community which I consider to be one of the best communities I ever had the honor to be a part of.

I read a lot of posts from people stating that they absolutely don't care about the recently published 3.5 books. The Mantra is: Don't need it, don't want it and besides it's a load of crap anyway. I cannot understand why such people should feel offended by the thought of a new edition. Given their own statement, they aren't even customers, so if they decide not to give a shot to 4E nothing changes. But chances are, 4E contains the things they missed in 3.5 (if they missed anything, that is).

The fact (or at least my opinion) is, that WotC published quite some quality products in 2006 and 2007. Fiendish Codex I, Complete Scoundrel, Tome of Magic, to name some, but I also like most of the Eberron stuff. You may not need these products, but that doesn't say anything about their quality. So I see no reason to assume that WotC has forgotten how to make good products. Which goes for 4E as well.

What really pisses me off is that some people seem to dislike the fact that WotC tries to broaden its customer base, especially...

They have and still do produce quality. They have a great writing staff. It is not with those folk where my issue lays.

I am all for progress, but windows only media is not progress. It actually will exclude many of WotC's target market and existing customers.

And it is this fact that has me seriously considering elusively purchasing material from WotC's competitors, and not not from WotC.


NSTR wrote:
Official conversion for C&C and True20 are more exciting news to me than the announcement of 4th edition. Especially True20 because I planned on converting it anyway. Please let us know more.

Awesome! As I fan of C&C I'd love to see material that could be used for that game within the pages of Pathfinder.

Even better, I'd love to see Green Ronin, Troll Lord Games, Paizo and Goodman Games work together to create a d20 game that would blow 4th edition out of the water.

Come on... how cool would that be?!?!? Why take scraps from WotC's table when you can create your own feast? I'd much rather play a game created by companies with a passion for D&D and its ROOTS than for by a company that seeks to "evolve" D&D into a WoW clone in order to draw the MMORPG set and other video gamers into the fold.


Well, given that comparisons for 4e have been made to the new Star Wars saga system, I can pretty much agree that conversions will not be smooth.

When I picked up Saga, I converted one of the Jedi NPCs from my game. It was a complete rebuild (similar to converting a 2e multiclassed character to 3e).

I will admit that some aspects of 4e sound interesting. However, I will not likely convert until the game is out for at least a year. I remember the errata that cropped up with 3.0 and lead to 3.5. I will wait and see. Besides, I have a couple of steady game groups that like the 3.5 system. I just wrapped up a 3 year planescape campaign and I am currently running Age of Worms and a d20 modern game. After that, I may do Iron heroes or one of the other APs.

At some point I will get 4e, but not when it comes out. I have to much invested in 3.5 to just give it up. Nonetheless, I still plan to get Pathfinder. It may not be as useful to me under 4e without a lot of conversion work, but I have done that before and can do so again.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lex Talinis wrote:
I am all for progress, but windows only media is not progress. It actually will exclude many of WotC's target market and existing customers.

I'm not quite sure about this argument, since most players I do know tend to use Microsoft products anyway. But as I heard the DI won't be Windows exclusive. At least there will be some parts usable for Mac-users. Don't know anything about UNIX-based systems anyway.

But seeing the german news right at the moment my strong feelings about 4E have suddenly vanished. Seems that tonight some xenophobic idiots have attacked and blistered some foreign fellows under the applause of the local residents. 70 police officers were needed to save those unlucky people.

I'm so sick of it.

Liberty's Edge

Lex Talinis wrote:
I am all for progress, but windows only media is not progress.

"Platform compatability? Starting with PC, because there are more."

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Azzy wrote:
Lex Talinis wrote:
I am all for progress, but windows only media is not progress.

"Platform compatability? Starting with PC, because there are more."

I hope they are thinking of the compatability issues while building these things then.


mwbeeler wrote:
Announcing that 4th edition is coming in 6 months or a year would be a terrific way to flush all 3.5 edition product sales into the toilet. On the other hand, that might be the idea. Leashing in a too popular magazine wasn't enough; we had better drop the big one....! Cripes I hope they don�t choose Eberron as the Core setting, oiy.

WOC.com says its coming in 2008

The Exchange

Erik Mona wrote:

One thing I can say for sure: As a gamer I would be a lot happier with a game that doesn't require two hours of prep-time for four hours of play. I have heard that the new system addresses this problem, and that strikes me as excellent.

If Wizards of the Coast can streamline the rules without robbing the game of its variety and complexity, I will be very impressed.

Me too. I guess that is the holy grail. 3.5 is a wonderful system for its flexibility, but the prep time is a real headache, as I am sure we are all aware. But what I don't want is a dumbed-down version that loses the flexibility to do pretty much what you want with monsters, PCs and so on.

The Exchange

Erik Mona wrote:

Ok.

I'm aware that many Paizo customers will not be converting to 4e. Honestly, before I heard some of the things I've heard at this show, I wasn't sure I wanted to convert either. So I sympathize.

My two groups have decided that there is more than enough out there to continue with 3.5 indefinitely. You spend a thousand dollars or more to get the books and Hasbro brings in the greed factor mid stride. It doesn't matter how 'streamlined' it is, we stay 3.5.

As a gamer I would be a lot happier with a game that doesn't require two hours of prep-time for four hours of play. I have heard that the new system addresses this problem, and that strikes me as excellent.

Hmmm, what am I doing wrong? I only spend about 20 minutes or so prepping for a game.


John Karns 57 wrote:


Hmmm, what am I doing wrong? I only spend about 20 minutes or so prepping for a game.

I doubt you're doing anything wrong. Even for pre-published adventures I put all the monsters on stat cards beforehand and that counts as prep time for me, because it helps make the game move faster. If you're comfortable doing what you're doing, there's no need to fix anything.


Count me as another vote (of appreciation) for the idea of providing conversion notes to 3.5 in the eventuality that Pathfinder/Gamemastery move over to 4e. Solid, thorough conversion notes will keep me as a subscriber. A lack of them will not. Either way, a big thumbs-up to Paizo for being straight with us right from the outset. Top of the tree as always, guys :-)


John Karns 57 wrote:
Hmmm, what am I doing wrong? I only spend about 20 minutes or so prepping for a game.

My computer is set up by the game table. As such, my prep time is usually not that bad. At most I might spend a couple of hours putting together the stats on a new monster or major NPC.

Thanks to the ability of my players to pull a "plot turn left" on my adventures, I tend to work off of outlines. I have done entire dungeon crawls with little more that a list of key encounters, a rough map, and mental notes on how the final goal encounter is going to run. Half the time I retroactively connect loose story elements, making it look like I had events planned out months in advance (a lot of it drawn from conclusion the players make). It is often the only way for me to keep up with my players when they decide to go off the map.

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