Pathfinder Player Core 2

Gisher wrote:

Right now the tags represent a weird blend of two different concepts: how common are these options in the 'default' Golarion region and how restricted they should be because of power concerns.

Just trying to head off this missconception. Uncommon and Rare options aren't more powerful than common options. Everything is bound to the same Level Math. What they can be is really unpredictable in how they affect the game. Many divination spells are uncommon because of how they can easily blindside a GM who hasn't thought through all the implications to his puzzles and mysteries. Likewise Antimagic Field is Rare not because it's more powerful than other 8th level spells but because the ability to shut down all magic can radically change the dynamics of encounters and not necessarilly to the party's benefit because of all their magic items and such shutting off.

Yes, that's a better way of describing the second set of criteria.

With more details on the Versatile Heritages in Player Core today, I am feeling increasingly we're looking at a draconic one as the newcomer here. It just feels right with the other options here.

Given that one comment on Wyvarans, I wonder if "magically spliced with Drakes" might be one flavor of many for them, similar to how Geniekin and Nephilim are fairly broad umbrellas?

I remind Draconic scion was in BZA Dragons from RFC, but there was no option for new arcane/divine dragons due to release date

Occult? didn't see that category in blog.

Why is the title not something like "Player Core Plus"?

Judging from all those concerns for future introductees' confusion on which books contain the PCs' gameplay actions, it would be nice to also indicate that this one contains core "choices" only, not the detailed explanations on how to use always available "buttons" you can press...

I think the new VH is gonna be the mixed ancestry they've mentioned.

Why is the title not something like "Player Core Plus"?

Judging from all those concerns for future introductees' confusion on which books contain the PCs' gameplay actions, it would be nice to also indicate that this one contains core "choices" only, not the detailed explanations on how to use always available "buttons" you can press...

Player Core 2 does the job.

And the indication given in the description is pretty clear : "The ideal character option resource for players looking to move beyond the Pathfinder Player Core."

Could have been Player Core Beyond, come to think of it.

Or maybe they will keep that one for Mythic rules, where we will finally be able to play the Beyonder.

I think the new VH is gonna be the mixed ancestry they've mentioned.

No, it was confirmed the Mixed Ancestry VH would be in Player Core 1, since its unique feats will still be from the Half-Orc/Half-Elf options, and they want all the Orc and Elf options to be in a single book.

Applied_People wrote:

I predict no more easy dipping into Champion for heavy armor and the champion's reaction.

We really need a better way to add heavy armor proficiency to a character than "getting religion" anyway.

"I'm born again, time to strap on my Jesus Armor and smite some heathens!"

Unexpectedly, the tail end of the Remaster preview panel at GenCon mentioned that a frog-people ancestry called the trypki (spelling might be off) are also in this, which are presumably a renamed grippli.
(Gnolls were still called that instead of kholo but I'm unsure whether that's a slip-up or if they've managed to find a way to hold onto the name.)

No news on what the new versatile heritage is, or anything else about the book though.

Note that mixed ancestries exists as heritage.

I wonder what will happen with the classes that aren't getting a revision in either player core 1 or 2, like Thaumaturges, the psionic ones and such.

I also wonder if they intend to release other bestiaries in the future, I always love me some monsters, I can never have enought bestiaries.

For the moment, AFAIK, there's no plans to remaster the other classes. There will be errata for the classes that need it (Magus definitely will), but not a remaster. There might be more Monster Cores though, because they can't publish everything they can keep from Monster Cores 1 through 3 in one book.

A reminder that, before the OGL instability occurred we announced semi-annual errata updates. The remaster disturbed our patterns and schedules, but other things might be remastered in this way, and then reprinted eventually.

Since gnolls are getting renamed to kholos and gripplis to tripki, are catfolk, lizardfolk and ratfolk gonna be renamed to what they call themselves in universe too, ie, amurrun, iruxi and ysoki (ysoki would be great especially with starfinder 2e coming up around the corner...)

I don’t see why not.

I tend to avoid terms like catfolk, lizardfolk, or ratfolk (or for that matter "common") where things have an in-game name that is (more or less) commonly known.

So this book, advertised as a core rulebook and including revised class options from the Core Rulebook, will also feature eight ancestries, none of which were Common rarity before. Are they going to be Common rarity now? Is Paizo doing away with rarity-based gating for ancestries?

Or are players going to read those options at the back of the book, get excited about playing a catfolk or a hobgoblin or a kobold (just like their fellow players excited for an elf or a dwarf or a gnome), only to find that they still need to negotiate, bribe, catch-the-GM-on-a-good-day, etc., when their fellow player can just pick elf or dwarf and legitimately not expect to have to defend that choice?

Has this ever actually happened? Is there some draconian GM out there saying "no you cannot have fun with your build grumble grumble"?

Tectorman wrote:

So this book, advertised as a core rulebook and including revised class options from the Core Rulebook, will also feature eight ancestries, none of which were Common rarity before. Are they going to be Common rarity now? Is Paizo doing away with rarity-based gating for ancestries?

Or are players going to read those options at the back of the book, get excited about playing a catfolk or a hobgoblin or a kobold (just like their fellow players excited for an elf or a dwarf or a gnome), only to find that they still need to negotiate, bribe, catch-the-GM-on-a-good-day, etc., when their fellow player can just pick elf or dwarf and legitimately not expect to have to defend that choice?

Has this ever actually happened? Is there some draconian GM out there saying "no you cannot have fun with your build grumble grumble"?

This question should only matter for organized play, but I would be surprised if too many GMs handled this particular issue differently. If ancestries that were not in the original Core Rulebook were added to this book (which basically replaces the old Core Rulebook), it would only make sense for them to be Common and freely available. I trust they did not remove or make Uncommon/Rare any ancestries from the original Core Rulebook? That would be far more of an issue.

God I really hope the Assassin archetype gets a fix in this book. It has several major flaws and could really use some love.

Especially the fact that, the way it's written, you essentially can't use it at early levels of Free Archetype Variant without locking yourself out of two FA feats.

How so, Fly? I don't see the problem.

Thebazilly wrote:

Jason S wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Curious what this version of Champion looks like with Alignment gone. I do hope what we would’ve called Neutral Champions can still sneak in somehow; a very classic LN-style “Judge” is definitely missing.

Oh damn, I kind of liked how the different champions had different powers, although LG was much better than the rest.

I expect there will still be a "Paladin," "Redeemer," and "Liberator" cause with the same exact tenets. The PC just won't have "Lawful Good" written on their sheet to go with it.

I have a strong suspicion that their tenets and anathema will be updated to put a semi-lock on the player's disposition in the same way alignment was intended to.

I'd rather not have Paladins stuck into a "lawful stupid" gameplay style, thank you VERY much.

God I really hope the Assassin archetype gets a fix in this book. It has several major flaws and could really use some love.

Especially the fact that, the way it's written, you essentially can't use it at early levels of Free Archetype Variant without locking yourself out of two FA feats.

Can you explain what you mean by that?

FlySkyHigh wrote:

God I really hope the Assassin archetype gets a fix in this book. It has several major flaws and could really use some love.

Especially the fact that, the way it's written, you essentially can't use it at early levels of Free Archetype Variant without locking yourself out of two FA feats.

Can you explain what you mean by that?

Yeah, I'm not sure what they mean? It has 3 common level 4 feats. Sure, Expert Backstabber isn't that good, but Poison Resistance is and Surprise Attack is ok; none of them are dead feats though. Level 6 you've got Poison Weapon and Sneak Attacker so even if you're a rogue, you can still grab Poison Weapon and then you're done with the archetype if you don't want any more feats from it. Go take some other dedication at 8, take one of its feats at 10 if you want, then come back at 12 if you really want Assassinate. Its perfectly fine with the number of feats it has at various levels.

If you want an example of an archetype that doesn't work that well at low levels due to feat slots, its Talisman Dabbler. It has the dedication at 2, 1 feat at 4, 1 feat at 8, and 1 feat at 14 so you definitely lose out at level 6 with literally no feat you can take.

Anyone waiting for fix when using Inventor class or Free Archetype with Scrounger Archetype at level 2 combo?

FlySkyHigh wrote:

God I really hope the Assassin archetype gets a fix in this book. It has several major flaws and could really use some love.

Especially the fact that, the way it's written, you essentially can't use it at early levels of Free Archetype Variant without locking yourself out of two FA feats.

Can you explain what you mean by that?

I can explain. FlySkyHigh made that comment the same day NoNat1s published a video talking about how bad the Assassin archetype is, labeled "The WORST ARCHETYPE in Pathfinder2e".

I honestly don't agree with NoNat on that, given a lot of grievances would be alleviated if you get off "Mark for Death" before initiative starts. Which you could probably do, given you're an Assassin, and you'd want to be Sneaking around before a fight.

And while "Assassinate" only works when you're undetected... you kinda WANT to be undetected, 'cause again, that's the archetype's theme. Mark for Death well before the time and date before you'd attempt to attack the target, go in undetected, and then Assassinate as the first move of the fight to do a massive first hit and potentially kill a Party-Level-or-Less creature. Sounds like an Assassin to me!

Oh hey! Paizo LIVE showed off the final cover of Player Core 2! Seoni is transformed into a Conspirator Dragon, and being ridden by Fumbus and is carrying with her legs Jirelle! And they're all fighting a big ol' Cyclops!

HERE's the screenshot from the stream of the final cover!

Does this make it more likely the third heritage is dragon-linked?

Does this make it more likely the third heritage is dragon-linked?

Not really, each of the core books has featured one of the new dragons, one from each tradition!

Sorry if i am being silly. What is the difference between Player Core and Player core 2?

The difference is what is in both books. Core 1 has more rules, leaving core 2 room for more options, but both are player option books with classes, feats, and ancestries to play.

The blurb on this page goes into more detail.

Sorry if i am being silly. What is the difference between Player Core and Player core 2?

Player Core 1

Player Core 2
Classes: Alchemist, Barbarian, Champion, Investigator, Monk, Oracle, Sorcerer, Swashbuckler
Ancestries: Catfolk, Hobgoblin, Lizardfolk, Kholo, Kobold, Tengu, Grippli, Ysoki
Versatile Heritages: Dhampir, Duskwalker, Unknown Third Heritage

Yasha Vienne wrote:

Sorry if i am being silly. What is the difference between Player Core and Player core 2?

Player Core 1

Classes: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Witch, Wizard
Ancestries: Human, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Leshy, Orc
Versatile Heritages: Changling, Nephelim, Mixed Ancestries

Player Core 2
Classes: Alchemist, Barbarian, Champion, Investigator, Monk, Oracle, Sorcerer, Swashbuckler
Ancestries: Catfolk, Hobgoblin, Lizardfolk, Kholo, Kobold, Tengu, Grippli, Ysoki
Versatile Heritages: Dhampir, Duskwalker, Unknown Third Heritage

Player Core 2 also contains some non-class archetypes, but which ones haven’t been revealed. Probably the ones originally from the APG such as Acrobat, Dandy, Scroll Trickster, etc.

The APG had 42 archetypes, two of which were the multi class archetypes for Investigator and Witch. My suspicion is we will see reprinted the 40 archetypes plus the eight multiclass archetypes. A few seem possible for name changes, but I don't think we'll see any new archetypes.

Yasha Vienne wrote:

Sorry if i am being silly. What is the difference between Player Core and Player core 2?

Player Core 1

Classes: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Witch, Wizard
Ancestries: Human, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Leshy, Orc
Versatile Heritages: Changling, Nephelim, Mixed Ancestries

Player Core 2
Classes: Alchemist, Barbarian, Champion, Investigator, Monk, Oracle, Sorcerer, Swashbuckler
Ancestries: Catfolk, Hobgoblin, Lizardfolk, Kholo, Kobold, Tengu, Grippli, Ysoki
Versatile Heritages: Dhampir, Duskwalker, Unknown Third Heritage

Side Note: The Grippli have been renamed to the Tripkee now!

The APG had 42 archetypes, two of which were the multi class archetypes for Investigator and Witch. My suspicion is we will see reprinted the 40 archetypes plus the eight multiclass archetypes. A few seem possible for name changes, but I don't think we'll see any new archetypes.

Swashbuckler and Oracle didn't have multiclass archetypes? :p

SenahBirdR wrote:

The APG had 42 archetypes, two of which were the multi class archetypes for Investigator and Witch. My suspicion is we will see reprinted the 40 archetypes plus the eight multiclass archetypes. A few seem possible for name changes, but I don't think we'll see any new archetypes.

Swashbuckler and Oracle didn't have multiclass archetypes? :p

They did.

SenahBirdR wrote:

The APG had 42 archetypes, two of which were the multi class archetypes for Investigator and Witch. My suspicion is we will see reprinted the 40 archetypes plus the eight multiclass archetypes. A few seem possible for name changes, but I don't think we'll see any new archetypes.

Swashbuckler and Oracle didn't have multiclass archetypes? :p

Oops! Yes, 44 Archetypes. Four of which were multiclass archetypes.

Side Note: The Grippli have been renamed to the Tripkee now!

I heard that, but had no idea how to spell it. Also not sure if Catfolk and Lizardfolk will use their own names.

Ezekieru wrote:

Side Note: The Grippli have been renamed to the Tripkee now!

I heard that, but had no idea how to spell it. Also not sure if Catfolk and Lizardfolk will use their own names.

Lizardfolk: Iruxi and Ikeshti

Ezekieru wrote:

Side Note: The Grippli have been renamed to the Tripkee now!

I heard that, but had no idea how to spell it. Also not sure if Catfolk and Lizardfolk will use their own names.

Luis Loza confirmed the spelling on Discord, I double-checked.

As for Catfolk/Ratfolk/Lizardfolk, I believe it was said those names would stay the same, as their people's names (Amurruns, Ysoki, and Iruxi) would be too difficult for new players to parse.

Too difficult? Pfui.

Too difficult? Pfui.

Gesundheit

So no Summoner in PC2? Anyone heard any rumors if we're getting a revised one down the road? PC3?

So no Summoner in PC2? Anyone heard any rumors if we're getting a revised one down the road? PC3?

More like "So no remaster compatible errata for Summoner in PC2?", as it was SoM class.

I don't think there are any plans to remaster classes outside of CRB and APG.

So I am going to have to wait 8 (probably closer to 9 or 10) months (becuase I live in restoftheworld) in order to get to have my Sorcerer updated.. doin me a disappointment guys.

So I am going to have to wait 8 (probably closer to 9 or 10) months (becuase I live in restoftheworld) in order to get to have my Sorcerer updated.. doin me a disappointment guys.

In order to remaster the sorcerer and barbarian the designers first needed to remaster the dragons. Thus Monster Core releases in March and Player Core 2 releases at Gen Con 2024 in August.

We continue to work on streamlining with our international distribution partners every month.

Thanks for playing Pathfinder!

Expected schedule of Gen Con is here

Thank you for sharing the cover. Me likes!

Since it's that time of the year I'll write a letter with my wishes for the player core 2 to Old Mage Jatembe:

- hope to see 3 tenets for the champion: holy, unholy and neither (also maybe a new cause based on keeping the balance?)
- draconic bloodline for the sorcerer that lets you choose one between all four traditions (since the new dragons are tied to them)
- elemental bloodline that gives different spells based on the element chosen (like the genie one does)
- mysteries that grant some more spells to the oracle repertoire and not only 1 cantrip.

Bonus point: magus with both class and spell DCs that scale up to master (like ranger, monk and champion do)