Starfinder Starship Operations Manual

Please, no. Firstly, mechas aren't starships and thus do not belong in this book (maybe in a potential Vehicle Operations Manual one day). But secondly, mechas are a singularly stupid concept. There is a reason why tanks are built like tanks.

1) Mecha are awesome.

2) this is fantasy.

I disagree with number 1. Mechas are ridiculous.

If you say so. I and others disagree.

Mechas are definitely an unnecessary complication if they fight on a scale intermediate between PCs and spaceships. They might be interesting if they become the counterpart of mounts in a Pathfinder campaign.

We have Kaiju in Starfinder already though.

There's huge and gargantuan power armor if you need something like that.

Power Armor =/= Mecha

There's huge and gargantuan power armor if you need something like that.

Yeah, but that isn't until level 11+. The gargantuan power armor is a level 19 weapon, and can't fly in space like mecha a la Gundam Wing.

I think the Dogfights concept is a stepping stone to mecha, but I'm still disappointed that it doesn't seem to be included in this book. With no softcover splatbooks being produced by Paizo, I doubt we'll get anything close to this for another couple years--which sucks for a feature people have been asking about at conventions and on messageboards for the past two years.

Xenocrat wrote:

There's huge and gargantuan power armor if you need something like that.

Yeah, but that isn't until level 11+. The gargantuan power armor is a level 19 weapon, and can't fly in space like mecha a la Gundam Wing.

I think the Dogfights concept is a stepping stone to mecha, but I'm still disappointed that it doesn't seem to be included in this book. With no softcover splatbooks being produced by Paizo, I doubt we'll get anything close to this for another couple years--which sucks for a feature people have been asking about at conventions and on messageboards for the past two years.

I don’t think this product description is supposed to be final. One of the developers has already talked about a starship racing system in the book (hosted by Zo!!) that wasn’t mentioned up there. It’s probably too early to confidently say what’s in and what’s not. That said, I’d like to second the request for dogfights. Starfinder is too cool not to have barrel rolling Arwing skirmishes.

Sweet can't wait for this to come out.

I also third the request for dogfights, or the idea of PCs piloting a squad of tiny starfighters against enemy starfighters.

I can't wait for this to release! If this has even half the things I hope it will, I am definitely going to run a Starfox-style campaign with it.

Dogfights probably wouldn’t be difficult to implement. The only real problem facing it is PC’s tiny starships getting blown up, which would be relatively easy, given how few hit points they’d have. Star Fox can probably inform a good solution here, by defining a clear threshold of damage PCs are allowed to take (and can be reduced to by an enemy strike in one round) before they must retreat, or risk death. Alternatively, if dropped below one hit point, PC ships can have an emergency deflector shield come on (perhaps projected from the shield points of the party’s primary starship), that can protect PCs against attacks for one round, giving them a chance to make it back to the safety of their ship.

Advantages to dogfighting can allow teamwork benefits (like flanking or cover fire) in addition to giving individual dogfighters traditional starship roles, like science officer or captain maneuvers, which would not need to be dependent on a player’s physical location inside a starship.

And as an alternative to powering up a primary starship, parties can invest their build points into making a set of dogfighters more powerful, diversifying available starship playstyles.

That’s how I’d like to see this play out, anyway.

I can't wait for this to release! If this has even half the things I hope it will, I am definitely going to run a Starfox-style campaign with it.

No sweet, Fox!

Things are going to be pretty exciting for Starfinder with this and Grimmerspace hitting in the same month.

Please, for the love of Triune, tell me this book will finally include the rules for mecha.

...the rules for mecha already exist in the Power Armor section.

If you're talking about starship-type mecha, then you can just use the regular sharship rules for nearly all of it.

The only thing that I'd really want extra to make space mecha would be melee attacks, and I'm pretty sure this book is going to have ramming stuff that could be adapted.

I’m very excited to be getting an entire book about creating romantic pairings between characters with the Icon background.

bananahell wrote:

Please, for the love of Triune, tell me this book will finally include the rules for mecha.

...the rules for mecha already exist in the Power Armor section.

If you're talking about starship-type mecha, then you can just use the regular sharship rules for nearly all of it.

The only thing that I'd really want extra to make space mecha would be melee attacks, and I'm pretty sure this book is going to have ramming stuff that could be adapted.

I hope you're not referring to the two or three suits of power armor that are size Huge because those are certainly not mecha. I'm talking giant robots you pilot that are hundreds of feet tall. Something like a cross between starships and power armor is what I would expect rules-wise.

I'd think mechas would be vehicles actually.

Kinda like tripod, but humanoid (and maybe magical golem robots :p)

I hope you're not referring to the two or three suits of power armor that are size Huge because those are certainly not mecha. I'm talking giant robots you pilot that are hundreds of feet tall. Something like a cross between starships and power armor is what I would expect rules-wise.

Well that is something you should clarify, because "mecha" is a broad term that can mean anything from a humble suit of power armor to the giant robot maid that sucked the atmosphere of Druidia in Spaceballs.

"Mecha" isn't just the robo they trot out to fight Godzilla.

bananahell wrote:

I hope you're not referring to the two or three suits of power armor that are size Huge because those are certainly not mecha. I'm talking giant robots you pilot that are hundreds of feet tall. Something like a cross between starships and power armor is what I would expect rules-wise.

Well that is something you should clarify, because "mecha" is a broad term that can mean anything from a humble suit of power armor to the giant robot maid that sucked the atmosphere of Druidia in Spaceballs.

"Mecha" isn't just the robo they trot out to fight Godzilla.

I disagree. Even the wiki articles says, "the term mecha may refer to both scientific ideas and science fiction genres that center on giant robots or machines (mechs) controlled by people."

Either way, mecha isn't power armor; Paizo has already made mention at past conventions that mecha are coming in the future. I just hope they're in this book.

I think one issue with mecha is that not all mechas flie at all or fly in space :P There are multiple different type of mecha series so WHICH one are they adapting?

I think one issue with mecha is that not all mechas flie at all or fly in space :P There are multiple different type of mecha series so WHICH one are they adapting?

Why not all?? :D I imagine they could adopt something akin to Upgrade Slots, where some can give the mecha flight capabilities and others tank treads or something.

Dracomicron wrote:

bananahell wrote:

I hope you're not referring to the two or three suits of power armor that are size Huge because those are certainly not mecha. I'm talking giant robots you pilot that are hundreds of feet tall. Something like a cross between starships and power armor is what I would expect rules-wise.

Well that is something you should clarify, because "mecha" is a broad term that can mean anything from a humble suit of power armor to the giant robot maid that sucked the atmosphere of Druidia in Spaceballs.

"Mecha" isn't just the robo they trot out to fight Godzilla.

I disagree. Even the wiki articles says, "the term mecha may refer to both scientific ideas and science fiction genres that center on giant robots or machines (mechs) controlled by people."

Either way, mecha isn't power armor; Paizo has already made mention at past conventions that mecha are coming in the future. I just hope they're in this book.

I'm having difficulty seeing the difference between the two if they are meant to be different. If a 60' high Gundam and a 60' high powered armor stood next to each other, what's their distinction? What would make someone say "yeah, that Gundam is clearly a mech and the powered armor clearly isn't." Is it because some of us don't agree with their mechanics? Because their mechanics and what they are intended to model aren't always going to be the same or what you expect.

bananahell wrote:

Dracomicron wrote:

bananahell wrote:

I hope you're not referring to the two or three suits of power armor that are size Huge because those are certainly not mecha. I'm talking giant robots you pilot that are hundreds of feet tall. Something like a cross between starships and power armor is what I would expect rules-wise.

Well that is something you should clarify, because "mecha" is a broad term that can mean anything from a humble suit of power armor to the giant robot maid that sucked the atmosphere of Druidia in Spaceballs.

"Mecha" isn't just the robo they trot out to fight Godzilla.

I disagree. Even the wiki articles says, "the term mecha may refer to both scientific ideas and science fiction genres that center on giant robots or machines (mechs) controlled by people."

Either way, mecha isn't power armor; Paizo has already made mention at past conventions that mecha are coming in the future. I just hope they're in this book.

I'm having difficulty seeing the difference between the two if they are meant to be different. If a 60' high Gundam and a 60' high powered armor stood next to each other, what's their distinction? What would make someone say "yeah, that Gundam is clearly a mech and the powered armor clearly isn't." Is it because some of us don't agree with their mechanics? Because their mechanics and what they are intended to model aren't always going to be the same or what you expect.

Well, for starters, a 60ft Power Armor is not anywhere near statted out, and will more than likely be too high of level to give access to a party in a Gundam-esque campaign. Point in case, the Warmaster's Harness is the largest power armor and item level 19. Unless you're going to start introducing Colossal power armor to level 3s, a new ruleset will be needed.

Plus many mecha properties out there have mechs that require more than one crew member (Pacific Rim for instance, which is namedropped in the CRB and was mentioned by Paizo on various occasions), which is not something you can really do with power armor as-is either.

Sauce987654321 wrote:

bananahell wrote:

Dracomicron wrote:

bananahell wrote:

I hope you're not referring to the two or three suits of power armor that are size Huge because those are certainly not mecha. I'm talking giant robots you pilot that are hundreds of feet tall. Something like a cross between starships and power armor is what I would expect rules-wise.

Well that is something you should clarify, because "mecha" is a broad term that can mean anything from a humble suit of power armor to the giant robot maid that sucked the atmosphere of Druidia in Spaceballs.

"Mecha" isn't just the robo they trot out to fight Godzilla.

I disagree. Even the wiki articles says, "the term mecha may refer to both scientific ideas and science fiction genres that center on giant robots or machines (mechs) controlled by people."

Either way, mecha isn't power armor; Paizo has already made mention at past conventions that mecha are coming in the future. I just hope they're in this book.

I'm having difficulty seeing the difference between the two if they are meant to be different. If a 60' high Gundam and a 60' high powered armor stood next to each other, what's their distinction? What would make someone say "yeah, that Gundam is clearly a mech and the powered armor clearly isn't." Is it because some of us don't agree with their mechanics? Because their mechanics and what they are intended to model aren't always going to be the same or what you expect.

Well, for starters, a 60ft Power Armor is not anywhere near statted out, and will more than likely be too high of level to give access to a party in a Gundam-esque campaign. Point in case, the Warmaster's Harness is the largest power armor and item level 19. Unless you're going to start introducing Colossal power armor to level 3s, a new ruleset will be needed.

Warmaster's harness is gargantuan, which is 32-64' high, so yes it can be 60' high. Powered Armor, like monsters and other objects, can be any size category, including colossal, nor is the size limited by what level it is, for the most part. Even the highest level armor is only medium, and you can technically have colossal powered armor that's as low as, for example, level 12. The size has nothing to do with the stats they yield, mostly.

In any case, I don't feel like this addresses my point at all, or what powered armor has to do with giving low level parties ridiculously OP items to wear. It doesn't matter if mechs are statted as powered armor, vehicles, or even creatures if giving low level players access to them is a concern to you.

Plus many mecha properties out there have mechs that require more than one crew member (Pacific Rim for instance, which is namedropped in the CRB and was mentioned by Paizo on various occasions), which is not something you can really do with power armor as-is either.

Let's not forget the Megazord or Voltron either. Oh man! A mecha that can break into starfighters? That would be sweet.

I'm having difficulty seeing the difference between the two if they are meant to be different. If a 60' high Gundam and a 60' high powered armor stood next to each other, what's their distinction? What would make someone say "yeah, that Gundam is clearly a mech and the powered armor clearly isn't." Is it because some of us don't agree with their mechanics? Because their mechanics and what they are intended to model aren't always going to be the same or what you expect.

I suppose the difference is one is a suit of armor you wear, that respond perfectly to your movements, and the other is a vehicle with a cockpit that you pilot.

Close to a lack of understanding of what makes a mecha a mecha.

While the starship rules (and some of the new options in this book) are conducive to flight-based mech combat, specialized mech rules do not appear in this book.

If folks are interested in discussing what they'd want to see in a hypothetical mech-facing book and/or system, that'd be a great topic for a dedicated thread in Starfinder General Discussion. For now, I recommend keeping this product thread to discussing the Starship Operations Manual.

At the very least does this book have rules for 5 small ships that combine into one big ship?

At the very least does this book have rules for 5 small ships that combine into one big ship?

That's in Pact Worlds.

I can't wait for this one and a vehicle operations manual as well.

I've been wanting to run a starship race campaign a-la the Great Race of Oban. Will this have anything useful for that kind of thing?

I read "Starship Race" and my brain went to Sentient, Playable Starship

Not Nascar style.

I've been wanting to run a starship race campaign a-la the Great Race of Oban. Will this have anything useful for that kind of thing?

Starship Operations Manual includes exciting material for telling all sorts of stories that involve starships, and I look forward to sharing preview material a few months from now. For now it's best that I nod knowingly and say "That does sound like a fun idea, doesn't it?"

Brew Bird wrote:

I've been wanting to run a starship race campaign a-la the Great Race of Oban. Will this have anything useful for that kind of thing?

Starship Operations Manual includes exciting material for telling all sorts of stories that involve starships, and I look forward to sharing preview material a few months from now. For now it's best that I nod knowingly and say "That does sound like a fun idea, doesn't it?"

I've been doing a lot of sailing in real life and have been day-dreaming about a Starfinder regatta for solar-sail starships. I've literally not peaked at what is inside the SOM yet, that's just my hope at this point. In real life, non-combat ship roles are important.

John Compton wrote:

Brew Bird wrote:

I've been wanting to run a starship race campaign a-la the Great Race of Oban. Will this have anything useful for that kind of thing?

Starship Operations Manual includes exciting material for telling all sorts of stories that involve starships, and I look forward to sharing preview material a few months from now. For now it's best that I nod knowingly and say "That does sound like a fun idea, doesn't it?"

I've been doing a lot of sailing in real life and have been day-dreaming about a Starfinder regatta for solar-sail starships. I've literally not peaked at what is inside the SOM yet, that's just my hope at this point.

1000% vibing with this sentiment. Also, the more Treasure Planet in my Starfinder campaigns, the better.

Captain Amelia, Pahtra space captain? check!
Doctor Doppler, Vlaka doctor? check!
Mr. Arrow, Oread first mate? check!
Morph, Prog companion? check!
Scroop, Jinsul antagonist? check!
Space pirates? Double check!

Just need a solar-sail starship.

Captain Amelia, Pahtra space captain? check!

Doctor Doppler, Vlaka doctor? check!
Mr. Arrow, Oread first mate? check!
Morph, Prog companion? check!
Scroop, Jinsul antagonist? check!
Space pirates? Double check!

Just need a solar-sail starship.

There is the Redshift Pleasure Sail from Pact Worlds. Verthani culture seems to still be into old-fashioned starships, seeing as how they were building them before almost anyone else.

So, wouldn’t mind seeing more Vercite-made starships. Them and Sanjaval cruisers are my favorites so far.

I'm hoping for more atmospheric combat rules

Page updated to show off that beautiful final cover art! :D

Ooo

Earlier today I just visited this page and asked myself if that was the final cover. It seems like it wasn't, and here it is! I liked it.

I'd personally love to see:

More starship frames based on spaceborne creatures, such as the oma & vermelith.

Detailed rules for creating new starship frames as well as customizing existing frames (i.e. adding/removing weapon mounts, adding/removing expansion bay slots, etc.), including rules for creating space stations (because why should Absalom Station, the Idari, and Conquerer's Forge have all the fun?).

New drive systems, including options for drives capable of time travel and inter-dimensional travel.

New rules for starship combat, including tactics such as orbital bombardment.

Really hoping this might also include more options and rules for ground/aquatic/atmospheric vehicles.

Starship Operations Manual includes exciting material for telling all sorts of stories that involve starships, and I look forward to sharing preview material a few months from now.

As a 30+ year, life-long DM/GM, I am super excited about this book... but where is the preview you promised us "in a few months?" It's almost time for the book to come out! All my finger nails have been bitten off already!

Oh so nice to see cover art!

Hmm

John Compton wrote:

Starship Operations Manual includes exciting material for telling all sorts of stories that involve starships, and I look forward to sharing preview material a few months from now.

As a 30+ year, life-long DM/GM, I am super excited about this book... but where is the preview you promised us "in a few months?" It's almost time for the book to come out! All my finger nails have been bitten off already!

The material was previewed at PaizoCon. Presumably, we'll get more once it's down to a month, but if you'd like to mitigate the nail-biting, the Paizo Twitch channel and YouTube have the PaizoCon recordings.