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Metaphysician wrote:
2. Double Tap? Double tap says you use double the ammo. Biohacks are not ammo. Using the Double Tap feat would have you doing a single attack, that may apply a biohack if you choose, but it only uses a single biohack usage. . . because it is a single usage of that ability. The doubled needle ammo usage is what pays for the DT bonuses. The same would apply with stuff like Overcharge Weapon or any other ability that effects an attack. Double Tap enhances an attack, it doesn't make it two attacks.

I agree it uses up 2 usages worth of your battery.

I yield that mechanically, it doesn't matter what you load into it, it just uses up two uses of whatever ammo it's using and does it's thing.

However In the case of Biohacks (or really any situation where it matters what ammo you use) doubletap consuming twice the ammo can make some questions happen.

This is going off topic a bit now, but lets say you loaded up a Needler Pistol with 6 doses Blue Whinnis poison and the used double tap with it. Are you completely wasting one of your doses of Blue Whinnis? Or do they get exposed twice upon a hit? Would it make more sense to load every other needle in the gun with the poison if you're going to Double Tap?


So the new Small Arm Caustoject series is an EAC targeting Injection weapon, Nice!

It has the description of the following:

Quote:
Much of the design of this pistol-like weapon is based off the biological systems of the disintegration lash class of small arms (Armory 36), though a caustoject’s more traditional appearance is in stark contrast to its techno-organic inspiration. Caustojects create an injectable field that transforms ordinary matter into an acidic compound, disintegrating their targets from the inside. Syringes can be loaded into these weapons, allowing other materials to be quickly injected instead of an acidic discharge (in which case only the injection effect occurs—no acid damage is dealt).

So if a Biohacker wanted to use an Inhibitor (or any poison/medicine/drug that can be used with an injection weapon) while firing this weapon, it would deal no weapon damage? That is unfortunate.

Does it still target EAC, even though it's not dealing any Energy damage when used in this way?

What if you doubletapped with it, one ammo firing the desired injection, one firing the Acid?

And then following up is its cousin, the Caustolance:

Quote:
Drawing upon the same design and inspirations as the caustoject, this larger weapon is designed to resemble an assault rifle rather than a pistol. As with its smaller cousin, a caustolance uses its battery to generate an acidic field to inject directly into its targets, but it can also handle and discharge other substances that are poured into a special tank that is attached to the weapon’s barrel.

This doesn't state that it doesn't deal Acid damage when used with an inject-able item. We can infer that it probably shouldn't if the ject doesn't, but it doesn't state that.


Quote:

Sudden Shift (Ex)

LANGUAGE-DEPENDENT MIND-AFFECTING SENSE-DEPENDENT
As a reaction, whenever you or an ally deal damage to an opponent within 60 feet of you, you and all allies within 60 feet of the opponent can take a guarded step as a reaction. All of the characters who took a guarded step using this improvisation have their speed reduced by 5 feet until the end of their next turn.

So I love this new ability for Envoys. It's got some great potential for a lot of good positioning shenanigans and can be extremely useful for getting out of sticky situations.

However, if you spend your reaction to activate the ability, you no longer have your reaction to "Take a guarded step as a reaction".

Is this intentional? Feels kind of awkward to include the envoy themselves as being granted the ability to move as well when they only way they could actually use it is if they were part Vanguard.


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Bombard fusion is really your main option if you want to be a grenadier.

Larger initial investment, but you never 'spend' any resources to use it, outside of the once/day thing.

Being the Grenadier solider option helps also (free grenade every 10 minutes you spend building one, one at a time).


It would certainly make Riot shields a lot more appealing.


I can't believe that they intended Soulfire to not work with a Solar Flare.

I assume it just means you can't put a Melee Only fusion (like Defending) on a weapon crystal and then apply it to your Solar Flare instead of the Solar Weapon.

Though I agree the wording, if taken as strictly RAW, would mean that you cannot, since you couldn't apply Soulfire directly to a small arm.


Hawk Kriegsman wrote:
The biggest one I use is redefined ready action trigger rules. In my opinion the RAW makes ready actions almost useless.

Ah right, I forgot about this one.

Triggering a readied action doesn't change your initiative.

It makes readying actions worthwhile compared to holding your action. If I wanted to shoot "the first bad guy that rounds that corner", I don't think it should change my combat initiative position. I can kind of see the point of not doing it, but as long as the players aren't abusing it too much, it makes it a tactically feasible choice and is fun to work around.


Quickdraw feat letting you draw for a TA. (Otherwise quickdraw is almost worthless)

Chugging a potion is a standard action (even if it's not in your hand). Cuts down on bickering about holding things and smooths it out.

Get'em works on swarms. Because why not?

Nat 20 on Aid another gives +4, nat 1 gives -2, failing the DC 10 gives -1. Gives a risk to trying to Aid, not just always trying it for the hell of it.

Nat 20 on space combat just deals double damage. 'Crits' are fairly underwhelming in space combat, and in my experience are slow enough already. Some more damage in there isn't a bad thing, and makes it more exciting.

Various others I can't think of at the moment, but generally I try to be lenient for what 'makes sense' rather than hard rules as written interpretations.


I don't see any reason why not for these questions, I'd just like some backup and reassurance on this topic.

Is there anything preventing me from putting a Bombarding fusion on a grenade, and then effectively pretend to throw it, with a mystic version of whatever grenade I loaded into it flinging off to explode baddies?

I like the idea of having a bandoleer of once-a-day grenades of various sorts on my person.

Being able to put them on grenades not only would thematically look cooler, it would be half as much credits for the fusions themselves (and cheaper base items...) as carrying around a bunch of light bulk small arms.

And also... on a level 10+ grenade, can you put two (or more!) Bombarding fusions on it, load it up with two (or more!) grenades? ... can I full attack with that one grenade, firing off both stored grenades in it?

I always loved the idea of a specialized grenade user, but the consumable cost thing always bothered me. I love the bombarding fusion, just want to squeeze out as much mileage as possible.


My group is very excited about this book.

I have someone that's playing a vanguard, and someone playing a witchwarper, but another that's very interested in Biohacker but doesn't want to invest before its 'final form' as it were.

I hope it delivers on what we're all waiting for, more fun and interesting character options!


Hawk Kriegsman wrote:

Interesting find.

I would suspect that there is a typo / omission on page 335.

I will be sticking to the wording on page 330 until a FAQ changes that.

To me a 10th level mystic or technomacher will cast a 0 or 1st level spell better/farther/wider....etc., than will a 1st level technomancer or mystic/9th level (insert any non casting class here) combo.

It just make sense to me to rule it that way.

The indicated wording on 335 would indicate that a level 5 Technomancer / Level 5 Mystic would cast all spells at caster level 5, since both casting classes are at level 5.

A mystic 1 / soldier 9 with this wording would cast at level 1, as it should be. But a Mystic 1 / Technomancer 2 / Soldier 9 would cast mystic spells at caster level 1 and Technomancer spells at caster level 2, instead of both at level 3 like when reading the rules on 330.

I do agree that page 330 makes a lot more sense, and am pretty sure it was an oversight. Or just not a lot of thought put into multiclassing, like in a lot of places in the CRB.


Also make sure to assume that any items the PCs likely won't want or won't use you value at 10%.

Your PC killing 5 CR 1 mooks with them all having Azimuth Laser Pistols, knifes and Second Skins aren't going to contribute 4k credits to the total value of the encounter. It should be figured to be worth about 400, what they'd get for selling it all.

As most things when you're designing it yourself, feel free to be more generous or stingy depending, or design a group of encounters with a large reward in mind. At the end of an abandoned manufacturing facility after fighting through 8 encounters, none of them really dropping anything worth mentioning, it's good for the PCs to find some really fancy stuff locked away, factoring in all the 'accumulated' wealth per encounter they didn't get from the malfunctioning robots they broke.


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David knott 242 wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
If the feat you get at 3rd doesn't count as a prerequisite for Versatile Specialization, then literally everyone is doing it wrong.

Except for the Paizo folks making their example builds in the Core Rulebook. They have people taking the Weapon Specialization feat when they would already qualify for Versatile Specialization from being counted as having Weapon Specialization at 3rd level.

It would still be valid for them to pick specialization for a specific weapon instead of versatile.

Stupid, but valid.


Dracomicron wrote:
According to the CRB: "You gain Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat for each weapon type for which this class grants you proficiency."

That's how I read it. Says specifically that it grants them as bonus feats.

It's not like weapon/armor proficiency that classes grant, which are definitely not feats.

Very likely not intended, but who am I to question what the book explicitly states? And yes, not really broken anyway.


I think the errata now is "Just put the pool of shield points however you want".

At least that's how I GM it anyway.


I see the language issue but that's really parsing out the words in an unfavorable way.

I can't interpret it in any other way besides letting you use Zenith revelations for an RP.

And if you really want to get picky, the Zenith revelations don't say you can't use them without being fully attuned, they just don't do anything unless you are.


Consider him Deafened at all times while wearing them.

Deafened
You can’t hear. You take a –4 penalty to initiative checks
and opposed Perception checks, and you automatically fail
Perception checks based on sound.


I would say yes on your question, you'd both get to smack them.

A follow up question though, if you're riding your drone and the drone leaves a threatened square, who does the enemy get to AoO? The rider, drone, the enemy's choice?


The BP system all an abstraction of starship building.

More of an abstraction than usual. It's up to the GM to decide how much effort it takes to obtain said ship, said parts, whatever given their BP budget.

But players get that full BP budget.

As stated before, under your interpretation there is no way a party could ever recover 'lost' BP. Your players would be woefully under prepared for anything higher levels, because they would effectively lose pretty much all of their 'starter' BP.

I don't think you'll find anyone to agree with your interpretation of the rules. It just breaks mechanically.

If you don't want to let your players rebuild it from scratch every level, fine. Don't. Impose a rule that they only get 2-3 upgrades while they're at a port. Make them improvise, and decide on specific upgrades they need, and what will fit on their current ship.

Do not deny them BP.


Stranded in an area of space without drift travel. Cut off from civilization. Unknown horrors, forcing players to get crafty. UPBs are a rare commodity since they're not easily accessible on their own.

Just weird, hostile alien life of any sort really.


Yes, you get the retroactive skill points. Effectively getting another +1 modifier to your int instantly grants you a number of skill points = to your character level.

Also any time you have skill points you can distribute how you see fit.

So even if your solarian was in the middle of level 12, and you plug in a mk 1 int enhancer, you can shove all 12 of your newly acquired points into culture, put 1 in 12 different skills, or however you want to do it, as long as none of your skill ranks go over 12 in this case.


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I find them incredibly underwhelming and had to really force myself to make a character concept that could make use of any of them.

And even then, so many of the classes feel like you're missing out on so much of what makes that class 'that class' with magic hacks, operative tricks, improvs, etc going away, that you feel so much like a gutting your character in order to get some rather lame-by-comparison abilities that often times aren't very interesting.

Solider is one of the few classes that can feel fine applying an archetype to, since they don't lose hardly any of their flavor (which is just being good at shooting/hitting things), since they can do that just dandy without the tons of extra feats they give up when applying an archetype.

If archetypes had some more 'oomph' to them, gave me more of a reason to pick them, I can definitely see them. But even if they were notably more powerful than they are now, they certainly seem like a harsh penalty when applying them to most classes. And I just don't like it.


Arguments for it targeting EAC:
-It is assuredly not a physical, kinetic force of damage from the weapon, based on the description.
-EAC targeting rules specifically call out 'exotic untyped damage' as a valid energy damage, where KAC targeting rules do not.

Arguments for it targeting KAC:
-The weapon does not specifically call out the weapon targeting EAC, as stated that it should on 240.

Arguments for it targeting neither EAC or KAC:
-The weapon description itself says it is neither a physical projectile or energy damage.

More clarification is definitely needed, I concede. From a logical standpoint, it definitely should target EAC. And as there is no clear-cut winner in my mind rules-wise, I'd personally rule it that way until more clarity rolls around.

I could even see the argument that it doesn't even need an attack roll, if it works similar to an Area of Effect Mind Thrust in damage typing (which can't miss). Armor/Dex doesn't help you prevent getting hit from a Mind Thrust, why would it help against something that deals the same kind of mental damage? Obviously it is still an attack and thus needs an attack roll, plus there's no save DC listed nor rules for what a success/fail would be on that save, so that isn't the case.


Quote:
If the weapon deals only energy damage, the attack targets EAC. Energy damage generally includes acid, cold, electricity, fire,and sonic damage, though it also potentially includes magical or exotic untyped energies.
Quote:
If the weapon deals only kinetic damage, or if it deals both energy and kinetic damage, the attack targets KAC. Kinetic damage generally comes from attacks that deal bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, as well as damage from crushing, constriction, or the impact from falling.

Source: CRB 169, TARGETING ARMOR CLASS

Okay. So.

The crux of the question is to figure out what kind of damage this weapon is dealing.

The psychic wave cannon is dealing a currently a rarely-if-ever-used-in-a-weapon untyped damage. So we now look to see what how how we can define what this untyped damage is, and if it's Energy damage or Kinetic damage.

Looking at what Kinetic damage is defined as: "Kinetic damage generally comes from attacks that deal bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, as well as damage from crushing, constriction, or the impact from falling."

It doesn't seem like this damage from the wave cannon really matches any of those descriptions.

Now, looking at what Energy damage is defined as: "...generally includes acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic damage, though it also potentially includes magical or exotic untyped energies."

It seems clear that Energy Damage's description is specifically calling out untyped energies (which is what this gun is projecting) as Energy damage, regardless of if it's one of the 5 more common types.

It targets EAC, in my interpretation.


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It's a neat ability, to be sure. But as others have pointed out, it removes your ability to do damage, and is very cost-intensive.

Burning your RP like to get 25 temp HP is pretty dangerous when RP is your lifeline when you get downed, especially since you won't be helping to take down that baddie nearly as much.

At a certain point it's much better to take the stamina hits, use your RP a lot more efficiently by resting later, while actually shooting it.

And as for the other aspects of the force field, I'm currently having a specifics argument with a player I have as well about what a force field does and doesn't do.

I told him straight up all it is is temporary HP. It's no different than any other kind of vitality value, like stamina or HP. I've made a ruling that makes sense to me that if the field is not penetrated it can prevent certain things (Like bleed, getting diseased/poisoned) as the shield fully blocked the attack and didn't really hit him.

But in a similar topic and idea, Stamina Points are also supposed to represent 'not really getting hit' in a meaningful way. I made sure to make it clear to him that the shield protecting him from certain things is as far as I'll go with this 'mechanics vs sense' back and forth.


Venti5 wrote:

um I read that as you can nested for any and all systems such as 2 for skin, hand, throat. usually you can only have 1 per system in any part, you’re able to adjust your modifications to fit

alongside one another, you can use more augmentations at
once than other creatures can. Ie put an extra along side any other.
Quote:
You can install one additional augmentation into one system that already has an augmentation.

It is definitely not an additional augmentation into all slots.

And for personal upgrades, PG 212 of the Core rulebook:

Quote:
Personal upgrades are a special class of augmentation that do not follow the normal system-limitation rules.

Since they do not follow the normal rules of augmentations, they are not subject to other things that affect augmentations, unless it states specifically that it affects personal upgrades (which is incredibly unlikely).

I get that archetypes are a bit underwhelming, but no way should the Augmented archetype be that good.


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Jasque wrote:
The recycling system is the size of a cargo bay, and it can convert "almost all" the waste generated on a starship into UPBs

I can envision certain people (like myself) being immensely amused by yesterday's biologically processed food being turned into a laser pistol.

Any quite a few others being rather horrified at the idea of their shirt being made of the same stuff.


If you don't want to add more encounters, and don't want to fudge XP rewards arbitrarily, just pretend there are 4 people when figuring out how much XP the party gets.

I'm running Dead Suns with 6 people, and doing a combination of adding in extra creatures into encounters, along with some slight fudging of story XP to get them where they should be at the right times.

They don't know the difference, and it's a lot less of a headache for me!


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DM_Blake wrote:


That's not really how language works though. Specifically, that's not how the word "Additionally" works.

The word "Additionally" means "In addition to the thing I previously said". It does not mean "Instead of the thing I previously said.

I might say "This glass is full of water. Additionally, you may drink its contents." If you drink it, you would expect water. If it's milk, you would (at the very least) wonder why I said "Additionally".

When Paizo used "Additionally", they're literally saying "it's a swift action AND you can use it as part of an attack action in this special case."

I don't think they meant it that way. Neither do you. But they said it that way.

And if it said "Alternatively" there would be someone that argues that you only get one of the two abilities when you pick up the feat, or it loses the ability to grant you swift action draws if you use it this other way, or some other weird interpretation focusing on that single word.

I definitely read it as it's an additional ability the feat confers. It seems apparent that it is intended to let thrown weapon characters get 2-4 attacks with weapons they are not currently holding.


My players almost turned tail and ran after busting the door down without resting (I was probably going to have Hatchbuster bust in on their rest anyway if they rested in the storeroom). They were all bunched up at the door, so the shock grenade that rolled an 8 hit 4 (out of 6) PCs, 3 of which failed, knocking one to 8 HP (after being shot) and one down to 1 HP.

They stabilized the door kicker, they started booking it out of the place, with two other PCs providing covering fire (effectively) before the Solarian (who was raiding the bar till at the time) came swaggering into the stock room, took on Hatchbuster toe to toe, the mechanic and operative taking pot shots at him, wore him down and then Ferani was easily dealt with afterwards.

I took the solarian player aside afterwards and thanked him for just gunning it, since my mind was racing trying to figure out what I was going to do if they actually did fully run away.

As an aside, I had Ferani have a Explorer Hancoil. Pretty damn good loot I felt. Everyone in the party is pretty new to RPGs, so was giving them something that was a good weapon, and the electrical damage would be incredibly useful in the next few parts of the AP.

Aaaaaand they sold it because its range was too low. Now I won't feel bad if they die!


Thanks Hammer, I figured they might have followed a generic tech rule like that, but a player of mine read a force field and assumed it was a one time use, and I questioned myself, lol.


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I may be completely blind, but what are the rules for recharging your personal force field armor upgrade? Brown, purple, black, etc.

Are they intended to be recharged? Can you recharge them in the same way as a space suits environmental capacity (I.E. free at any place of civilization)? Does it cost credits like recharging batteries for guns?

... are they one time use upgrades?

Just want to clarification in case I'm just really bad at finding rules.


Wonder why the fusion upgrade cost doesn't just state that you'd have to pay the cost for each level you're bumping up a weapon fusion.

Example, if you were bumping from 5 to 9, you'd have to pay 520+780+1150+1300 = 3750 Credits, which would cost more than what it would take to just get a new one.

It would prevent players from doing this weird dance of creating a level 1 fusion on a level 1 weapon then transferring it to a higher level item, which is purely a game mechanics trick rather than anything that makes in-universe sense, but also retain the ability to keep moving your fusion when you get a new weapon (it would still cheaper to upgrade if you keep it within 1-2 levels).

Guess if they still haven't changed this rule, they mean it to act this way?


Yeah, it's certainly not an optimal build, hell he's a Melee technomancer Junkbear. Nothing about that is optimal.

... but it should be fun!

Thanks for the insight everyone.


As long as you keep that free hand free it doesn't have the Unwieldy trait, so it should be free to Trick attack with.

I'm not sure why you'd need quickload? It has 6 rounds in it before needing to be reloaded. It would be useful after your 6th attack, but before then you should be able to use it as normal without penalty. Unless I'm really missing something.


I want to make a character that is extremely frugal, and really loves hoarding and using Junk.

Can you create some Junk Armor (light), and then cast the spell again to upgrade it to heavy? Spell is from Pact Worlds book.

RAW I don't see why not, the light junk armor seems to be a valid target to upgrade.

Also, the junk doesn't vanish or anything after it's used, right? My guy can just keep it all with him in his growing hoard of junk and recast the spell (twice) in the morning to protect himself again with the same junk?

I'd actually just have him constantly carting around 3 bulk worth of junk to cast Junk Armor and Junk Sword.


Your equipped armor likely has an armor check penalty of -1, which is being applied to your Athletics. Otherwise you have the right of it.


I figured that was probably the case, but it the rules didn't really state precisely, so I wanted some backup.

Thank you, guys.


While bonded with your Eidolon as a Synthesis Summoner, do you use the Eidolon's speed for movement, or the summoners?