Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Belkzen, Hold of the Orc Hordes (PFRPG)

Well, if you look at Belkzen, it's surrounded by vastly different countries. Lastwall, Realms of the Mammoth Lords, Varisia, Ustalav, and I believe I'm missing one or two. So it may not be just Lastwall vs. Belkzen, because as James Jacobs stated in his Ask thread, when a truly charismatic leader shows up and rallies the tribes, it could take a large alliance to put them back down. I could definitely see Dwarves getting in on it to retake their Citadel, or they'd miss a huge opportunity to showcase a classic story.

Heck, it could even be the Dwarves starting the whole thing and their success provoking the Orcs into banding together against a common enemy.

Also, kidnapped half-orcs as casters and strategists are some-what common ideas among Orcs, giving them some extra diversity. If they're making an Belkzen AP, they'd probably at least keep Orcs visible, probably mix up encounters with them and other beasties. It would also be a prime opportunity for more of the troop unit types from Reign of Winter at higher levels.

Orcs could have monstrous allies, could have an alliance with a casty race, could have dangerous waaugh machines, or beasts of burden, could have half-orcs, half-trolls and half-dragons.

Fighting the horde could work, especially if they has Dragon pals.

Perhaps the orcs are allied with the giants hinted at in the upcoming Giant Slayer's Handbook?

Well, if you look at Belkzen, it's surrounded by vastly different countries. Lastwall, Realms of the Mammoth Lords, Varisia, Ustalav, and I believe I'm missing one or two. So it may not be just Lastwall vs. Belkzen, because as James Jacobs stated in his Ask thread, when a truly charismatic leader shows up and rallies the tribes, it could take a large alliance to put them back down. I could definitely see Dwarves getting in on it to retake their Citadel, or they'd miss a huge opportunity to showcase a classic story.

Heck, it could even be the Dwarves starting the whole thing and their success provoking the Orcs into banding together against a common enemy.

Also, kidnapped half-orcs as casters and strategists are some-what common ideas among Orcs, giving them some extra diversity. If they're making an Belkzen AP, they'd probably at least keep Orcs visible, probably mix up encounters with them and other beasties. It would also be a prime opportunity for more of the troop unit types from Reign of Winter at higher levels.

I actually wonder if this isn't going to be the Dwarf AP that has been talked about. Maybe the dwarves are trying to reclaim the Sky citadel in Belkzen.

There is a runelord under Belkzen ?

I actually wonder if this isn't going to be the Dwarf AP that has been talked about. Maybe the dwarves are trying to reclaim the Sky citadel in Belkzen.

If it is, that means we'll have a better chance of having it 6 months earlier since it'll be a Rob AP :D

Edit: Runelords are Varisian, don't believe any moved further than that.

Edit: Runelords are Varisian, don't believe any moved further than that.

Wasn't the area covered by Belkzen (or most of it) part of the Thassilonian empire (specifically the part of the domain of the Runelord of Gluttony, at least) in the past?

Just wondering...

Kairos Dawnfury wrote:

Edit: Runelords are Varisian, don't believe any moved further than that.

Wasn't the area covered by Belkzen (or most of it) part of the Thassilonian empire (specifically the part of the domain of the Runelord of Gluttony, at least) in the past?

Just wondering...

Western Belkzen was Gastash, yes

And there's that black obelisk where it's believed the Runelord of Gluttony rests, where Tar-Baphon stayed for a bit of time, probably just sucking up powers and doing a ton of research. That is also in Belkzen.

And there's that black obelisk where it's believed the Runelord of Gluttony rests, where Tar-Baphon stayed for a bit of time, probably just sucking up powers and doing a ton of research. That is also in Belkzen.

The Cenotaph.

An Orc AP would be awesome. An Orc and Dwarf AP would be even better >.>

Someone please tell me that there will be at least Orcish weapons, melee, ranged, or siege (melee preferred) that utilize the Orc weapon quality, and maybe some distinctly Orc magic weapon qualities, like some sort of once per day death blow type of deal or a super charged Vicious, and some distinct Orc rage powers.

Someone please tell me that there will be at least Orcish weapons, melee, ranged, or siege (melee preferred) that utilize the Orc weapon quality, and maybe some distinctly Orc magic weapon qualities, like some sort of once per day death blow type of deal or a super charged Vicious, and some distinct Orc rage powers.

Ooh, Orcish / Gorumite rage powers...

Cold Iron Rage (Ex): When you damage a creature with a cold iron weapon while raging, slivers of cold iron embed themselves in the wound, forcing an arcane spellcaster to make a concentration check (DC 10 + damage dealt from all relevant blows + spell level) to cast any arcane spells for 1 round.

Someone please tell me that there will be at least Orcish weapons, melee, ranged, or siege (melee preferred) that utilize the Orc weapon quality, and maybe some distinctly Orc magic weapon qualities, like some sort of once per day death blow type of deal or a super charged Vicious, and some distinct Orc rage powers.

My guess...and just a guess mind you...is you really won't see a lot of mechanics in this book like you want. I am basing that guess of how the other books like this are typically laid out.

I don't need a LOT of mechanics, I just need some. Some of these books do have them, some don't.

I don't think location-based books like this normally have mechanics beyond ones based on environments or bestiaries, from what I recall. In general, they tend to cover several occupied settlements, talk a bit about each, who's there, significant figures, a few plot hooks, cover several areas, same deal, possibly an encounter table or environmental dangers, have a bestiary, etc. The ones that have more mechanics tend to be more general, such as Inner Sea Combat, Inner Sea Magic, the various Books of the Damned and Chronicle of the Righteous, and so on and so forth. Personally, I wouldn't get your hopes up too much in regards to mechanics, based on the campaign setting materials we've gotten so far that are focused on a specific location.

Kairos Dawnfury wrote:

Edit: Runelords are Varisian, don't believe any moved further than that.

Wasn't the area covered by Belkzen (or most of it) part of the Thassilonian empire (specifically the part of the domain of the Runelord of Gluttony, at least) in the past?

Just wondering...

Ooo, this is one of those times I enjoy being wrong! Necromancer stirring up the Orcs...

Ooo, this is one of those times I enjoy being wrong! Necromancer stirring up the Orcs...

Between occupying the ruins of Gastash, and having more recently served as the footsoldiers to Tar-Baphon, I think it should be safe to assume that the orcs of the Hold of Belkzen are up to their clavicles in necromancy.

Add in some lingering ties to the land of the necromantically-potent Black Blood, from whence they came oh-so-long ago, and it should be all necromancer-palooza in that nation.

Add in some lingering ties to the land of the necromantically-potent Black Blood, from whence they came oh-so-long ago...

Is that canon? Or something you made up? I always figured orcs evolved/originated in Sekamina.

Set wrote:

Add in some lingering ties to the land of the necromantically-potent Black Blood, from whence they came oh-so-long ago...

Is that canon? Or something you made up? I always figured orcs evolved/originated in Sekamina.

P. 47 of Into the Darklands has a sentence that could be read to either state that the orcs, or the megafauna used by the orcs in Belkzen (or both?) come from Deep Tolguth, in Orv.

I haven't noticed another possible Darklands origin place for the orcs (although the Quest for Sky writeup for the dwarves makes it sound like the dwarves started out below the orcs, and drove them upwards before them).

P. 47 of Into the Darklands has a sentence that could be read to either state that the orcs, or the megafauna used by the orcs in Belkzen (or both?) come from Deep Tolguth, in Orv.

Ah okay, I thought you meant the Land of Black Blood instead of Orv in general. Deep Tolguth I could see - LoBB not so much.

** spoiler omitted **

Sounds more like prattchet than Tolkien

Just saw this. Congrats, Mikaze.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Sounds more like prattchet than Tolkien

That's a feature, not a bug :-)

Oh my, oh my! I've been wishing for a Belkzen module and AP for a long time! This is amazing! =)

And Mikaze is one of the authors? Congratulations, M! :)

Curse you, Paizo for giving Mikaze a lucrative foothold into the industry and taking his happy shiny face away from the boards while he's hard at work on it :(

Random (conversational) necromantic thoughts;

in an AP where Orcs are the primary antagonists, you're going to be fighting a lot of Orcs who are, naturally, going to be PC classed. This means is going to, usually, be locked into a certain role with very little in the way of options they can use in combat.

I mean, the Orc has a penalty to Wisdom, Intelligence and Charisma, so if you used the standard stat array for NPCs of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8, then their highest starting casting stat would be 13. Even if they put their worst stat, an 8, into Strength, they'd end up with a 12 strength, nearly as high as their casting stat.

Some sort of 'elite' orcs who have no penalty to Wisdom might make them a bit more usable for something other than melee fodder (and be good for orc clerics, druids, rangers, etc.). They'd just be a version of orc like the 'dread corby' or wikiwak bugbears or color-scaled kobolds, not anything that the orc NPC would have to buy with a feat or racial ability trade-off.

Perhaps a racial 'old blooded' trait that gives them a +2 Cha for the purposes of a particular Sorcerer Bloodline (similar to the Tiefling Fiendish Sorcery racial thingie?) could also open up Sorcerer (and Bloodrager) a bit more (Orc, Undead (cause of ties to Gastash, Black Blood and / or Tar-Baphon), etc. Bloodlines seem most appropriate, although Aberrant, Abyssal, Deep Earth and Shadow are also good choices, as well as a theoretical Jotun Bloodline based on giantish relations). That 'Orcish Sorcery' trait could replace weapon familiarity or ferocity.

These are just patches for the issue, of the orc being designed mostly as a menace and not something more versatile and useful for any other type of encounter, but should serve to allow them to function without throwing a bunch of non-orcs into the spellcasting / leader roles.

Random (conversational) necromantic thoughts;

Tels wrote:

in an AP where Orcs are the primary antagonists, you're going to be fighting a lot of Orcs who are, naturally, going to be PC classed. This means is going to, usually, be locked into a certain role with very little in the way of options they can use in combat.

I mean, the Orc has a penalty to Wisdom, Intelligence and Charisma, so if you used the standard stat array for NPCs of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8, then their highest starting casting stat would be 13. Even if they put their worst stat, an 8, into Strength, they'd end up with a 12 strength, nearly as high as their casting stat.

Some sort of 'elite' orcs who have no penalty to Wisdom might make them a bit more usable for something other than melee fodder (and be good for orc clerics, druids, rangers, etc.). They'd just be a version of orc like the 'dread corby' or wikiwak bugbears or color-scaled kobolds, not anything that the orc NPC would have to buy with a feat or racial ability trade-off.

Perhaps a racial 'old blooded' trait that gives them a +2 Cha for the purposes of a particular Sorcerer Bloodline (similar to the Tiefling Fiendish Sorcery racial thingie?) could also open up Sorcerer (and Bloodrager) a bit more (Orc, Undead (cause of ties to Gastash, Black Blood and / or Tar-Baphon), etc. Bloodlines seem most appropriate, although Aberrant, Abyssal, Deep Earth and Shadow are also good choices, as well as a theoretical Jotun Bloodline based on giantish relations). That 'Orcish Sorcery' trait could replace weapon familiarity.

These are just patches for the issue, of the orc being designed mostly as a menace and not something more versatile and useful for any other type of encounter, but should serve to allow them to function without throwing a bunch of non-orcs into the spellcasting / leader roles.

I imagine some sort of alternate racial features, like with the Aasimar or Tiefling, might be best. Possibly swapping the racial stats to something different.

For example, giving a -2 penalty to strength, dex, and con, in exchange for a +4 to charisma would pair nicely with an Orc bloodline Orc Sorcerer.

No way. These are Orcs, and they're made to fight and win.
We don't need none of these pansy Aasimar and Tiefling alternate racial traits!

I kind of like the idea of something like the black orcs from Tome of Horrors, a sort of badass more disciplined subrace of orc, analogous to the Uruk Hai of Tolkien. I kind of wish Paizo would create something like that...after all there are something like 6 types of goblinoid statted up, but orcs only get one.

I kind of like the idea of something like the black orcs from Tome of Horrors, a sort of badass more disciplined subrace of orc, analogous to the Uruk Hai of Tolkien. I kind of wish Paizo would create something like that...after all there are something like 6 types of goblinoid statted up, but orcs only get one.

The Orcs probably killed all of the others is why.

[Edit] Tweaked quote from one of my favorite animes.
Master: Orcs, when used incorrectly, can kill your opponents!
Student: Then why do we use them?
Master: Because Orcs, when used correctly, can kill your opponents!

I kind of like the idea of something like the black orcs from Tome of Horrors, a sort of badass more disciplined subrace of orc, analogous to the Uruk Hai of Tolkien. I kind of wish Paizo would create something like that... after all there are something like 6 types of goblinoid statted up, but orcs only get one.

Most of the Tome of Horrors Orcs, IIRC, were just kind of generally awesome. (Net +8 to attributes, DR 1/-, etc. for the Black Orcs, best of the best. Yikes!)

If the average PC race has a net +2 to attributes, an Orc 'elite' group with a net +0 (+4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha, Orcish Sorcery *or* +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha, Orcish Sorcery) would still be an upgrade from the current net -2, and help make them not kind of suck as much at *all* spellcasting classes, and still not be 'as good' as the net +2 an elf, dwarf, human, half-elf, half-orc or Halfling has.

The age of Men is over. The time of the Orc has come!

WAAAAAGH!!!!!!

WAAAAAGH!!!!!!

Pathfinder's Orcs are so awesome, their WAAAGH gets extra A's.

This sums up my feelings on a Belkzen book.

I love Orcs.
I can't wait for this book to come out.
Day 1 purchase.

I figure I should post here once a month until it gets closer to release, just to keep people talking and wondering about this book.

I'm so friggin pumped for it too, you have no idea.

WAAAAAGH!!!!!

I could so easily do something similar to Shadow of Mordor using this book. Have an army of unique and different Orcs that the players have to contend with.

I might just be coming off a post Shadow of Mordor high though.

Interesting, a couple months ago I finished a campaign that was primarily located in Belkzen. Should be a good read to see what I could have done better, and what I got right.

Grask Uldeath better get an article, he's one interesting Orc.

Spells for orc shamans, please.

Interesting, a couple months ago I finished a campaign that was primarily located in Belkzen. Should be a good read to see what I could have done better, and what I got right.

Grask Uldeath better get an article, he's one interesting Orc.

Oh, there should be quite a bit about Grask.

What about the second most powerful warlord, Hundux half Mann? A lot of questions remain about his actual power, influence, and parentage thanks to towns of golarion.

What about the second most powerful warlord, Hundux half Mann? A lot of questions remain about his actual power, influence, and parentage thanks to towns of golarion.

Hundux Half-Man, the lord of Wyvernsting? You'll learn about him as well.

Remember that the Hold of Belkzen is a pretty large place, and I was only able to go into so much detail about each of the places. The format of this book (as far as I know) is very similar to the Campaign Setting books on Numeria, the Worldwound, and Osirion that preceded it, so you can expect a similar level of detail about any particular place or person (i.e. a lot more than has been published up to now, but not nearly as much detail as you get in an AP article about a location or in a book like "Towns of the Inner Sea").

Ok, been about a month, cause it's December, so I'm keeping my promise of posting here once a month to keep interest up.

Anyway, I'm still pumped for this, and the Monster Codex helped keep my interest up, though I still wish that book had a new archetype for Orcs. Still, it was awesome.

At any rate WAAAAAAAGH!!!

I hope we get military statistics (for ultimate campaign rules). Like in MERP RPG old sourcebooks.

I hope we get military statistics (for ultimate campaign rules). Like in MERP RPG old sourcebooks.

Paizo tends to leave these kinds of statistics to individual GMs, so that they may tailor them to suit their own campaigns. The only time you'll see army rosters is when they appear as part of an adventure.

An Orc AP would be awesome. An Orc and Dwarf AP would be even better >.>

I agree!

I don't think Paizo would do a full Orc AP because of the level of evil acts it would probably involve, tho I would buy it in a heartbeat.

I don't think Paizo would do a full Orc AP because of the level of evil acts it would probably involve, tho I would buy it in a heartbeat.

Well we got the Worldwound AP, which is focused on demons. Which are way worse than orcs.

No no no, I mean Orcs as PC's type of AP.
Maybe they'd do an adventure of median level, similar to the We Be Goblins series.

Actually, if Paizo would let Richard Pett do with Orcs, what he managed to pull off with Goblins in We be Goblins I would squee.

SQUEE I SAY!!!!

I guess I will just have to see what they pull off with Daughters of Fury...