GM redeux's page

Remember that making mistakes is natural. Learning from them makes you a great GM.

Exactly. I still make mistakes. Best we can do is learn from them. There's always something I think I can do better, whether it was a mistake or just something I didn't handle as well as I would've liked.

As far as hero points go, one thing that really helps me when I run (live) games is have a stenopad (Basically smaller notepad). It's usually organized something like this:

- very top is labelled TB (treasure bundles) and has 10 check boxes.
- below that is labelled HP (hero points) and has 6 check boxes. I know some people use a phone timer or similar to track when to give these out. I just try to watch the time and look here to see if I need to give one out. I also check after each section on the scenario as a reminder in case time flies by.
- next 6 lines I reserve for player info. Steno pads are split down the middle so on the left when players make their character introductions I write down their PC names, phonetic pronunciation if I need it, and PC pronouns. on the right side of these lines I save for later in the session and write a note down about something they did or said for personalized chronicle notes.
- below that I outline any skill challenges+thresholds, or other mechanics that need success tracking. I just do tallies for most success tracking but check boxes for complex ones. So last weekend I ran a chase scene so I had listed the player names again and used check boxes for each round so I knew if they went. (I had set up some flip tiles for different elements of the chase scene so I didn't want to track rounds visually on a map like i normally do).
- and then below that is any other notes I want to remember for the scenario or just leave blank for stuff to write down in session.

With that, then I just need to mostly check boxes for TB/HP and then follow my skill challenge outlines. For PbP I do something similar but its in a google spreadsheet so I'm not counting on keeping a piece of paper for several weeks.

Of course other GM's have different systems that work best for them so experiment with different things to see what works for you.

Plaguestone wasn't too bad running, I'd just caution against overcommiting since you're probably looking at 4-8 months or more depending on the pace of the group. I don't know if you have a number of 'slots'/ tables you've found to be your max you can handle but this basically would take one 'slot' for several months. It's doable, just plan ahead with what you're offering and make sure to keep it within your limits.

That said, longer adventures like the standalone adventures or adventure paths are some of the most rewarding stuff to run IMO. I really enjoy being able to have continuity with the same group over a period of time and see the connections they make and stories they tell.

If you have a druid character that has both an animal companion and a pet (from the Pet feat), can the pet be used in combat in place of the animal companion if the situation requires it?

yes, keyword 'in place of' since you would have to choose which one to count towards your pawn limit. If the pet stays in your PCs grid then it might be able to count under the 'creatures that don't count towards your pawn limit.'

rule reference: Pawns

On a separate note -- why was Q12 (Putrid Seeds) retired as a PFS quest?

this is all we have. Anything more would be speculation so consider it a great secret like the mystery of the gap.

Hello wonderful players, gamemasters, and community members.

I am trying to pull together some thoughts about what we do in our lodges (the result is hopefully going to become something like a mission statement for our lodges here on the forums, or at least what the VO team is trying to do), and would like to collect any ideas you want to share before I even sit down to start sketching out ideas. If there is anything you would like to share for the forums VO team to think about, please let any of us know. You are welcome to post in any of the lodge discussion threads, send any of us a PM here on the forums, or contact any of us on Discord or by email. My email is on the domain orgplayonline.com and has the same username that I use here without the GM prefix.

Thank you in advance for any thoughts or ideas you send.

Once we have something written up, we will be asking for your input again. We have an amazing community here, and I want to come up with something that can help us get even better as well as celebrating what we have.

I echo what GM Blake said, but I would also add:

REMINDER TO OUTPOST VIII GMS

For those GMs wanting scenario support for their Outpost VIII games, please note you need to register by Monday, Feb 3.

Registration information can be found at this link.

bumping to new page

Watery Soup wrote:

GM Redelia wrote:

It would be dishonest and manipulative to pretend this in optional until someone decides not to do it. That's also one of the easiest ways to generate a lot of ill will. One of the worst feelings in the world is when someone asks you to do something in a way that makes it feel optional, you choose not to do it, and then they tell you it's actually required. I'm not going to do that to this community; I have too much respect to everyone here to play such games.

I do agree that there are times where just bringing down the hammer up front makes it easier. For example, telling people that filing taxes is required. Or, telling people that safety glasses are required. Times when there are serious consequences for not doing something.

GMing a game is not one of those. The barrier for entry is high and the barrier for walking away is low.

This lodge is part of Paizo Organized Play. In order to GM inPaizo Organized Play, adherence to certain rules is required. To GM in this lodge, adherence to our rule to use one of the two approved methods to let us know about the game is required.

I've tried to put this more nicely, but evidently that has led you to believe this is optional. We really hope to not have to do this, and are not looking for people who break the rules, but if we become aware that a GM refuses to adhere to the rule even after we remind them, that GM will not be permitted to GM from this lodge anymore. That is why I have been saying that this is a requirement, not just something a GM should do.

fwiw i dont think anyone here is arguing that the data tracking form is optional. watery soup seems to think you attract more flies with honey than vinegar (i agree); and i am saying since it is a separate step it cant be guaranteed to be done (i.e. forgotten).

Regardless, I don't see any reason to keep the data tracking form around for all the reasons I listed above. Im aware some GMs like myself have personal events with several hundred sessions but if I have a choice between giving bonus AcP to players or reporting under my own event, the choice is pretty clear to me.

I hope PbP leadership reconsiders their stance as it seems to be against everyone's best interest and to the detriment of reporting numbers which, ironically, is what the whole data tracking form was to solve. GM's will forget the data tracking form, unintentionally, regardless of how it is framed. Whereas streamlining to just the shared event system would solve the original data issue while benefiting everyone involved. Such as, GM's would continue to be able to report games as they do today (just under a shared event), and the entire table gets bonus AcP.

GM redeux wrote:

Given the ability to report under the lodge event directly is the more guaranteed way to get someone to record a lodge session, i would think if the short campaign info is pressed for space then the event number is more important than the data tracking link.

And for clarity, if a GM reports under the lodge event they don't need to fill out the data tracking form since it is already captured in the lodge event?

[...] Returning to the first question, I do not think either way is any more 'guaranteed' than the other. And a GM who uses the shared event can look up that number in the long campaign description, can look it up on a previous chronicle sheet, or see it in their list of campaigns to report to. A GM who uses our form instead needs access to that link for every game.

Alright, I'll lay out my thinking then. The Data Tracking Link exists because Paizo isnt capable of updating their reporting system so that it can inherently track reporting for an individual lodge and/or region. It can only track the 'event'. So when VO's were asked to give numbers for their lodges and regions then they needed to count those games manually.

This means the Data Tracking Link exists to save VO's the time and effort of manually tracking games run in their lodge. That's understandable, but lets be honest, there is no way you can guarantee someone will fill that out. it is in addition to the reporting.

Now, you have a shared event that you can add GM's to. This is great as it allows GM's and their players bonus achievement points. Moreover, it will inherently remove the need to fill out the data tracking link. So yes, this makes it more guaranteed to get your numbers. It is baked in.

While I haven't GM'ed a PbP game here in 2 years or so, and I stepped down from being a VO last year, I still am an admin over at Cayden's Keg. We've been doing a shared event since our lodge started back in 2020. I am really excited to see the rest of the PbP region starting to take to this too as it gives bonuses to your GMs/players and gives better data.

And for this reason, IMO, you should be promoting the event number in the short bio if you think 3 lines is too much space. It is better for players(bonus AcP), better for GMs (bonus AcP, no additional step to fill out a separate form, more respectful of their time by not requiring clicks for info that should be easily accessible), and better for VOs/OPF (Better/more reliable data).

I know it may seem like a small thing, but given how the shared event benefits everyone involved while streamlining the process, I believe it deserves prominent placement in the short bio.

Given the ability to report under the lodge event directly is the more guaranteed way to get someone to record a lodge session, i would think if the short campaign info is pressed for space then the event number is more important than the data tracking link.

And for clarity, if a GM reports under the lodge event they don't need to fill out the data tracking form since it is already captured in the lodge event?

PFS Tracker does not seem to have season 5 or 6. What's up with that? Is there an alternative out there for tracking 2e games you have played?

It's a volunteer-led website and the initial owner no longer plays PFS. There was an update given here (click)

I keep track in a spreadsheet and just add in the scenarios I played and with which character. When I want to play something if it's not listed in my spreadsheet then I know I haven't played it yet.

Well if we're on the topic of 7-10 scenarios, I have 05-06 (Ukuja, The First Wall) ready as well.

03-19 is the last of a 4-part thread:

03-01 - Intro (1-4)
03-06 - Struck by Shadows (3-6)
03-17 - Dreams of a Dustbound Isle (5-8)
03-19 - Mean Streets of Shadow Absalom (7-10)

I've played the first 2 but not the last 2...

i'd throw my name into the hat for 3-17 and 3-19 if that happens. I have a level 7 kayal/fetchling swashbuckler who has done all/most of the season 3 metaplot except 3-17 and 3-19 (though 3-19 would be a replay since i did play it out of order with another char)

after gameday i could bring a lvl 11 rogue

Could I trouble someone to link how to get a refund for a boon, please. Been looking and can't seem to find it. Thank you.

see the rebuilding section here. Just share why (remaster rebuild/bought in error/etc) and the requested info.

GM redeux wrote:

That would still presume a GM would have access to the rules they are supposed to enforce.

Or should GMs also take a break?

They are on Demiplane.

Demiplane is not an official source. The core assumption for using options is that ownership is not required as long as the rules are referenced from the official SRD (AoN). see Character options -> Using Options from the Core Sources

But my initial message is that I can't imagine a GM faulting a player for not having access to the most recent text when the SRD hasn't been updated. I am advocating for having some understanding that while the rules say one thing, it is not the most beneficial stance for organized play to be a hellknight here. Yes, the rules are available on demiplane but then you're just ignoring a different rule. GM's need to be able to look the rules up in the official SRD if players do not provide ownership with relevant pages.

I sincerely hope that the VO's are not advocating for benching players while waiting for AoN to update, and instead I think Pirate Rob has the right of it

We had this same problem with Player Core 1.

The general solution at the time was effectively allowing but not requiring "errata" since there was no way to actually access the always available rules. I can't imagine doing anything else currently.

That would still presume a GM would have access to the rules they are supposed to enforce.

Or should GMs also take a break?

It's not exactly a requirement that all characters switch to remastered. Your old characters can still use the original version of most things, but if the remastered books have used the same name for something, it's treated as errata and you have to use the new version. There are a few examples, such as oracle, where this makes a character pretty close to unplayable depending on the options you picked, so they need to update to remaster rules.

A character builder is probably the best tool right now. Here are a few ideas to get access to the book text while waiting for Nethys:

-you could purchase the PDF. (nice, because it helps support Paizo, but not an option for everyone)

-you could look over a friend's copy, or see if a local library has a copy of the book

-if it's just a few pages you need, you could look at a local gaming story at those pages

If none of those work for you, and you really need to see the rules more than your character builder has before playing the character, you unfortunately might need to use other characters for a little while while waiting for Nethys.

I think it is important for us to reference the guide when talking about the rules.

Remastered Classes and Other Remastered Options

Remaster Rebuilding and Removal of Pathfinder Training

and Errata Rebuilds

What I take away from this is that you can keep playing your existing class and can optionally rebuild the character. For other non-class options then you'd need to use the most current option, at which point I have a hard time imagining any GM is going to fault a player for not having the most recent text when the official SRD hasn't been updated.

No one should be benching their characters.

Warah wrote:

I'm imagining a party with an awakened elephant who acts as an interpreter for their very quiet friend, an awakened dust mite.

Yeah it would be fun roleplaying it, I'll be a sorcerer so I can cast cantrips to amplify my voice, as far as combat, the DM can say well they see you because the equipment you're carrying glows or they see you for some other means.

Unless Paizo says no to being a microscopic bug in Pathfinder Society, I'm going to be one when I get Awakened Animal. Every locked door I'm going to ask the DM if the bottom is sealed or if there is a millimeter gap underneath. If there is a battle in the kitchen, I'll ask the DM is there any crumbs on the floor not sweep up, the crumb would only have to be a millimeter high for me to take cover.
Megaphragma mymaripenne is a flying insect 0.181 and 0.224 millimeters.
More Millimeter bugs.

Awakened Animal ancestry has the size entry of "Choose the size appropriate to your animal: Tiny, Small, Medium, or Large"

So even if you pick microscopic bug then the smallest you could be would be Tiny, which has its own advantages and disadvantages. In other words, no, you can't mechanically be microscopic in Society.

You could try to sell that to a home-AP game but honestly unless everyone else is a microscopic bug then it sounds like the sort of idea where the entire game would be revolving around you which is the antithesis of a collaborative story telling game IMHO

Similarly, i would encourage players to not spend so much time trying to figure out how to "beat" a cooperative and collaborative game like this. There are single player RPG's for that.

It's under the Character Options page, Secrets of Magic sanctioning info:

Eidolons: Eidolons are not PCs, so they do not count as PCs for effects that scale based on the number of PCs or players.

Eidolons and summoners share a pool of actions. As a result, for Victory Point/success counting systems that allow each PC a limited number of chances to roll, either the summoner or the eidolon can attempt each check. The summoner's player chooses for each attempt which of the two rolls. Any direct consequences of failure apply to whichever creature rolled the check.

This rule does not mean that in general only one of the summoner or eidolon need to roll to deal with adverse situations. If everyone in a room needs to attempt a saving throw against a hazard, both the eidolon and the summoner need to attempt that saving throw. If every PC needs to overcome a particular obstacle in order to continue (such as crossing a chasm), the eidolon and summoner both need to get past the obstacle.

GM redeux wrote:

Quote:

I remember hearing they had slightly different rules to a regular scenario.

Not only that, but slightly different rules depending on the special. Here's the repeatability breakdown per special:

Multi-table specials
2-00 (tiers 1-2, 3-6, & 7-8, once each tier)
3-99 (tiers 1-4, & 5-8, once each tier)
3-98 (tiers 1-4, & 3-6, can be played twice & each playthrough can be in any tier)
4-99 (subtiers 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, fully repeatable)

The above is just for playing, if you GM you can get a separate chronicle still. So for example 2-00 you can get up to 6 chronicles if you played and GM'ed every tier.

Thanks for the info redeux.

A follow up question: are you able to play the same special with the same character but on a different tier? Or must you be playing with a different character than the first play through?

You cannot. They are still treated as the same adventure for that purpose so it needs to be a different character each time you play/GM.

I remember hearing they had slightly different rules to a regular scenario.

Not only that, but slightly different rules depending on the special. Here's the repeatability breakdown per special:

Multi-table specials
2-00 (tiers 1-2, 3-6, & 7-8, once each tier)
3-99 (tiers 1-4, & 5-8, once each tier)
3-98 (tiers 1-4, & 3-6, can be played twice & each playthrough can be in any tier)
4-99 (subtiers 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, fully repeatable)

The above is just for playing, if you GM you can get a separate chronicle still. So for example 2-00 you can get up to 6 chronicles if you played and GM'ed every tier.

Question: Is there a reason that the Outpost no longer posts the games here and use Google Maps? I really don't want to have to download/learn 3-4 new programs to play a game when it doesn't seem to be a reason why.

There is no requirement for GM's to do one thing or another in those areas, and what you are seeing is that GM's are free to choose what they want.

This includes games run during a convention and outside of a convention. GM's can choose to offer to run their games here or any of the Play-by-Post lodges. Similarly they can use google slides or some other tool/app, there is no requirement there either.

Scenario Support ends on Feb 05, but GM's can continue to add games throughout the con so long as it can be finished before end of con. So yeah, register soon if you need scenario support.

Hey community,

I need a snap of prejen Ezren @ 3rd (preferably encoded for the site already) to use in an alias.

Anyone got a copy?

here you go

You can also find this in the cottonseed campaign description by going to "PbP Lodges and Guides" and then there is a slide with the "PbP Pregens BB Code" which has them for all systems.

I know Gen-Con is far away and they haven't asked volunteers yet, but I'm asking cause 2024 might actually be the first year I get to go since I now have a friend in my location that also plays Paizo games. I'm going off of previous blogs.

IDK about Origins but for Gencon---

7 Blocks Housing: It says 2 Gms per room. Question is where is the housing?

Does the 2nd GM also have to gm 7 blocks?

Yes

Say I want to bring a friend with me. I have to GM 7 blocks and my friend has to GM 7 blocks?

Correct

3-7 Blocks Player Badge: Do I only get 1 player badge regardless of how many blocks I GM. Again this is the, give a player badge to my friend question.

The player badge has your name on it and can't be given to a friend. You should be wearing your badge at all times while at the convention and this is ESPECIALLY enforced while you are running/playing paizo games. Gen Con Staff does check tables to make sure badges are out, and the Paizo con organizers will also be checking so they don't get in trouble when too many people don't have their badge on.

You didn't ask, but I'll offer my advice. If you are GM'ing enough blocks to get a hotel then you will be living and breathing in the Sagamore ballroom. You will have very few to no slots to spend with your friend unless they happened to sit at your table as a player. I'm not saying don't do it, I've had some great times at Gen Con running 7+ blocks, but I also was arranging for my SO to play at my table so we could spend time together. Otherwise My morning and afternoons were running games and in the evening I had a few hours with her to get food, explore expo hall and/or find other games to play before I needed to get to bed and do it all over again. This would be further complicated if your friend is also running games and may have a different schedule than you.

Same type of questions for Origins in Columbus.

IDK about origins but I imagine it is pretty similar

Here's the post about it along with links to some archived PDF's for interim use:

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43w6c?OPF-WebsiteGuide-Outage

I think this discussion has run its course and we probably should move on. At this point I don't think anyone's mind is going to be changed, the rules have been cited, and GM's/VO's are free to enforce the rules as they see fit. We don't have to see eye to eye on the purpose or method of auditing ownership resources or characters, and that's okay.

The ownership rules and what qualifies as proof of ownership can be found under the character options page. See "using options from other sources" which details the different methods that qualify as proof of ownership.

-------------

RE: PFS scenarios.

Lets not get too worried about PFS scenarios. I'm going to point out the absence of a rule here, and it is very intentional-- There is no requirement to own pfs scenarios in the guide or character options page (this is because many physical locations the scenarios are owned by the store, and loaned out to GM's). Obviously you'll need to have access to the scenario to run it, and for online that would mean buying it. But it isn't something anyone is going to audit you on.

Correct. The org play guide doesn't change that game rule.

lets move this discussion to the discussion

From recruitment

GM Watery Soup wrote:

2. Regarding the boon, meh. It's been a while since I've played a game (convention or not) where we didn't have enough GM glyphs to cover the table, although I'll admit I play in a GM-rich (and author-rich) region. I played this with my -2001 and I haven't used it in 7+ levels. *shrug*

I don't see anything on the boon that says you can't use it along side the GM glyph hero point. You can have a maximum of 3. Is there a post I missed that says you can't have both?

The org play guide only places a restriction on the max number of hero points gained through GM glyphs. You can still get additional hero points through other things like the boon in question or campaign coins. For example in Paizocon 2020 I played 1-20 with a group of 6 that ended up with 17 hero points at the start due to gm glyphs/boons/campaign coins.

In the past I emailed customer service (listed at bottom of every web page). I don't think there is any other way

quoting the OPO discord announcement in case these links/resources weren't posted earlier

The War of Immortals class playtest for Pathfinder 2 begins now! From now until October 2nd, test out the new Animist and Exemplar classes in Pathfinder Society.

Playtest documents: http://www.pathfinderplaytest.com/
Blog post: https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sie7?Welcome-to-the-War-of-Immort als-Playtest
Rules governing play in PFS2: https://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/Lorespire/pfs2guide._.Playtest-Rule s
Note that the Exemplar, despite being a Rare class, is fully available to all PFS2 players during this playtest, and most important of all GMs must opt-in for playtest characters to be used at their tables. Please make sure that you consult the GM prior to game!

Other useful resources
Foundry module: https://foundryvtt.com/packages/pf2e-playtest-data
Pathfinder Nexus character creator (free to build playtest classes): https://resources.demiplane.com/nexus/pathfinder/war-of-immortals-class-pla ytest

But to answer your question, if a GM opts into allowing the playtest, and the PC is built using the rules from the guide, then yeah that all checks out.

Specifically for PbP, when Tyranius was VC he had asked about whether or not PbP games needed to be completed by the end of the playtest period. At the time the answer was that you could run the game at your normal pace and still get credit, just make sure the playtest surveys are filled out before the end of the playtest period so your feedback reaches the devs.

Even though bounties are adventure mode, They still require pfs characters. The org play guide does contain rules for pf2e playtest but not starfinder field-test (which is smaller and less formal than a playtest) so we couldn't use the field test on a pfs character.

So no, i don't believe we could use field test for bounties or other adventures that require a pfs character. You could, however, use them for something else in adventure mode as long as the adventure doesn't require pregens (see link for general rules and an adventures sanctioning for exceptions). Notably the beginner box or one-shot product line would make great shorter adventures for this purpose. Or you can just run bounties/whatever for no pfs credit

I'll also add that when the online region was founded, it was done so with the idea of open and accessible games for all. Unfortunately for paid games this can naturally exclude players when payment is required. This is in part because we serve a worldwide player base where personal financial situations vary, some regions do not commonly use credit cards, poor currency conversions, etc.

Personally, I don't have a problem with paid games in general, and I support GM's who want to offer their services in this way, but it just can't be done within one of our lodges. StartPlaying is not an OPO lodge so paid games can advertise there. Same with Warhorn. Warhorn is not an OPO lodge, and paid games can be advertised there. Games can be advertised online as long as it is not an OPO lodge.

When this topic comes up in my lodges I do give caution that the surplus of society content being run for free can make it difficult to charge for society games. Not impossible, as you can see, but more difficult. Generally speaking I think charging for longer form adventures are where you'll find more success, like the single book modules or multi-book adventure paths. Though I do not have much experience with PF1 so perhaps that changes things.

I like math.

As for ACP, I've noticed, lately, that ACP doesn't seem to be given out when a non-repeatable session is GMed twice - at least not according to my spreadsheet. I'm not sure if that's a Paizo 'bug' or what, but that is what is appearing to happen. So if your ACP totals have dropped a bit in the last few months, that may be why.

This is a known bug and is in queue to be fixed

There are no GenCon PbP games of any sort, as far as I know.

IMO that is a good thing because GenCon has both an convention badge you need to buy, and then individual event tickets. Personally I'd rather see no online paid society games and particularly with PbP where they take up a large amount of time I think it's better to have games run outside of that.

When I was a PbP card game VO we had 4 conventions a year (3 for all systems and 1 for card game only). This felt like "always a convention" at times. When our Box Runners (aka GM's) were running games for conventions the majority of the year we saw less games being added spontaneously. While there are advantages to conventions having a lot of signups to accommodate new players there are also downsides. When there are 52 weeks out of the year and most games were being recruited within 1 month period per convention, we're talking about 2/3 of the year games just weren't being recruited for the card game, and new players would have to wait for a convention or hope someone spontaneously chose to start a new game.

The systems aren't exactly similar so it isnt a perfect analogy, but personally I think it is good to have some balance between conventions and non-convention games, particularly in PbP where the conventions last so long and GM free time to run/offer games is a finite resource. Add a paid conventions to the mix and things get muddied further, now you have chunks of time where players need to sign up within a specific window, but also they need to pay to play which isn't a great thing.

In short, IMO it is better to have relatively few PbP conventions, and that these conventions be free. This keeps games accessible to new player and those who for some reason or another cannot do paid games (such as no access to credit card, financial situations, relative strength of local currency, etc). This is actually why the Organized Play Online region normally requires games advertised in our lodges to be free. The notable exceptions to this are the paizo-sponsored conventions (paizocon and gencon).

could there be Gen Con pbp specials? is it possible? for 1ed, 2ed and SF?

I'm not sure it is really all that great to have a PbP Gen Con game anyway. One month later typically is when Gameday starts. That isn't enough time for a PbP game and having overlapping PbP conventions would be problematic (characters being locked in, for one)

#4-99: Blessings of the Forest debuts at Gen Con and the note on the product descriiption says it will be available for conventions to request after Gen Con. Historically I think Gameday in September-Novemberish will be able to run it, but this is just my guess since I'm not a PbP VO.

Neither.
1 XP quest = 2 days of downtime
2 XP quest = 4 days of downtime

Scenarios and Quests grant two days of downtime per XP earned.

-Downtime

This blog also covers the rewards a bit more in detail. I would expect the org play guide to distinguish between the 1xp and 2xp quests soon enough.

So long as you do not run anything prior to the public release date. In this case that is April 26 so you could recruit but not start until it is available for purchase on the paizo site.

I believe you could use Divine access to select Desna (who happens to be part of your The Path of the Heavens pantheon) and gain access to Fly that way.

to be clear, i'm not a PbP VO so these are just my thoughts as someone who knows some things but has no authority here

Super Zero wrote:

GM Tiger wrote:

not sure how readily the reporting form can be modified, but it might be easier to have a drop down or a checkbox to indicate where the game was played.

It would be a very long list.

Not really. If they're just asking for games played on the Paizo forums, all you really need is a checkbox that says whether it was played on the Paizo forums. The Discord lodges have their own reporting number so it's easy to track that.

Worth noting that this problem is not a unique to forums problem. Every lodge has needed to do reporting based on games run in their lodge. A drop down list would need to include all of these lodges.

Is Cottonseed lobbying for AcP multipliers or something? Sure, I'd do something to make that happen. The form seems OK, but whenever data is gathered two ways, there's going to be discrepancies that need to be ironed out. Maybe we could all create separate events and Cottonseed can claim multiple event numbers. I have "Watery Soup PbP" that's all Cottonseed, I could even create a new event called "Watery Soup PbP, brought to you by the Cottonseed Lodge." That work sounds proportional to the benefit.

The AcP multiplier would involve needing a new event code every three months and it would need to be a single event for the entire lodge. Would you (and other) GM's give up your personal event codes in favor of an AcP multiplier? This would remove the need to do any additional form for table counting, you get extra AcP, at the cost of your personal event code and needing to get a new code every 3 months (could be displayed on campaign header or some other prominent place).

Genuine question. I think people should share this with the decision makers regardless of what side you sit on.

For my VTT lodges we already have everyone reporting under a single event so we just switched it to a quarterly event in exchange for AcP. This does also require someone being added as a reporter the first time they GM, and then every 3 months the VO's need to spend a few minutes copying everyone over as a reporter for the new event.

Completely separately, I think from a data perspective the question needs to be asked, what is the goal here? If the goal is to get 100% accurate data about what is run in the online region then that is impossible. It is never going to happen without Paizo's support. Instead this gets put on VO's to gather data. For me personally and my VA's (again, not PbP) this means my lodges will do our best, reasonable effort to get the data and gather it in a consistent manner so it can be reasonably trusted. For my lodges that meant having a single event code for the GM's willing to use it. Most of our GM's used our single event already, and most continue to do so. I didn't want to implement anything in my lodges that involved unreasonable amount of effort to my VAs, or offloading responsibility to GM's. Instead my lodges are just rewarding GM's for what they already did. If GM's are willing to give up their personal event codes for a communal one that is changed every 3 months then this "how do I (VO's) get/gather reporting data" becomes a much easier question IMO.

Thanks for everything you have done for the PbP community Tyranius. It was great to work alongside you back when I was a PbP VA for the card game. I always appreciated how inclusive you were in involving the card game community. We have also seen PbD really take off during your time as VC. I wish you the best in your future endeavors and look forward to seeing you at the table in the future.

And congratulations Bigrin!

PFS Blog response to CRB v4 Errata/clarifications

Pathfinder Core Rulebook Errata

Earlier this week, the Rules & Lore team announced a new errata policy, as well as posting some new changes to the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. Obviously these changes are going to affect Pathfinder Society play, so here’s how to handle them:

All new rule changes in the 4th printing of the Core Rulebook are in effect immediately*.

Dust of disappearance has been made uncommon. Any character who previously purchased the item may keep it. It will be added to the Avid Collector - Core Rulebook boon for future purchases and characters.

The horse animal companion rules have been updated, and apply immediately. Any character who no longer wants a horse animal companion may freely change their animal companion to a new animal. Retraining out of an animal companion entirely follows the normal rules for retraining.

The alchemist class updates provide a number of changes and upgrades. Any alchemists built under the old rules can freely retrain their research field and any feats except those that specifically prohibit doing so (such as lineage feats). Any items purchased with gold can be sold back for the full purchase price. Retraining out of the alchemist class entirely can only be done with the normal retraining rules.

The Core Rulebook now allows all characters to take two free ability boosts instead of the printed options for their ancestry. Newly created characters in Pathfinder Society may use this rule; previously built characters may not unless they rebuild the character from scratch with a boon.

However, to retain the legality of numerous existing characters, the Pathfinder Society campaign will continue to offer the Voluntary Flaws optional ruleset and retain the text within the Guide to Organized Play.
Once again, these changes go into effect immediately*. Please let us know if you have any questions or if we missed any updates that you’re not sure how to handle!

*Immediately in PbP would be at the end of your current game as Tyranius mentions above.

Errata doesn't effect characters who are currently in games until they're done, right?

Although I think only one of those changes matters to one of my characters right now.

The PFS2 Guide says: "Errata: Changes to rules via errata go into effect at the next game played by the character. " - (Rule Changes)

For PbP I think this would mean after your current game, but I'm not a PbP VO.

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Also, there will be more direction for PFS characters coming in Thursday's blog so stay tuned for that.

That doesn't actually work the way you think.

11 bounties = 11 xp, 44 gp (vs. 3 scenarios 42 gp, a gain of 2 gp)
Play a scenario = 15 xp + 14 gp = 58 gp (vs. 4 scenarios 64 gp, a loss of 6 gp)
Play 2 more scenarios = 23 xp +44 gp = 102 gp (vs. 6 scenarios 108 gp, a loss of 6 pg)
Play a scenario = 27 xp +22 gp = 124 gp (vs. 7 scenarios 146 gp, a loss of 22 gp)

So riding on 3 XP is actually a detriment.
Better to do 12 bounties and get 48 gp (gain of 6 gp).

That isn't right. I don't enjoy these conversations on how to min-max stuff but I don't think it's right to leave something like this out there giving wrong info.

If you play 11xp worth of scenarios/bounties, and then finish with another scenario you will end up at 15xp earning level 1 gold before leveling up. For level 1 - Lets say 11 bounties + 1 scenario comes out to (44gp + 14gp) 58gp compared to if you just did 12 bounties which comes out to 48gp. A difference in this example of 10gp.

Then if you play 3 scenarios at each level, and never anything other than a scenario, then you will always be 3 xp ahead of someone else, which amounts to 3xp of level 1 gold. Continuing the example- For level 2 - both PC's can play 3 scenarios at level 2, earning 66gp total each. They earned the same amount of gold this level, and the min-maxer still comes out 10gp ahead from the level 1 shenanigans)

The issue is, however, if you ever play anything other than a scenario in this situation (like a quest) then you won't be able to play 3 scenarios at that level, and you will actually end up "losing out" on gold than if you had never tried to do this maximize xp/gold shenanigans. Continuing our example - at level 3- let's say the PC that did level 1 shenanigans plays a level 3 quest. Now they can only play that 1 quest and 2 scenarios before leveling up. They will earn (9.5gp + 76p) 85.5gp, compared to a normal level 3 PC who plays that quest but can still play 3 scenarios before leveling up earning (9.5gp + 114gp) 123.5gp. Now the first PC started out 10gp ahead and now they fall 28gp behind.

I don't advise going around trying maximize your gold in this way, since long-term that lvl 1 gold is pretty negligible and you'll be shorting yourself gold in the future if you ever do anything other than scenarios. Also, quests exist. And someone who isn't trying to do this 11 bounty + scenario thing would be able to come out ahead by playing a single quest at lvl 4 or higher. That is of course also just ignoring the amount of complexity being added to the game for such little reward (imo) compared to just playing normally and not trying to min-max gold. Gold will be roughly the same for everyone without needing to spend any time/energy on this.

discussion from recruitment thread

That does make sense with most scenarios granting 4 xp.

Scenarios grant 4 XP

Generally though you don't need to think about this too much. Just follow what is on your chronicle sheets and level up every 12 XP-- remembering not to reset XP to 0.

I'll respond in the discussion thread. Let's keep this thread focused on game recruitment. Thanks!

Don't characters become level 2 at 10 XP. How is it your characters are level 1 with 11 xp? Or is it 11 xp split between the two of them?

It is 12 XP to level up, and note that you do not reset XP to zero when you level up (link to guide). So there is nothing wrong with anyone having 11 XP or even 73 XP.

Watery Soup wrote:

The PFS characters would still have to be Level 1, but if they're up for an APL+8 combat, sure.

Man, bounties are super weird. Why not just have them use standard PFS rules rather than allow adjustments at all?

Bounties are meant to be separate from PFS so the PFS sanctioning has been tacked on, gone through several iterations, and yeah, is pretty weird. Originally they weren't run in adventure mode and were run like a normal scenario. But then we had some bounties where parties were TPK'ing and the society rules "run as written" left GMs with no choice but to slaughter parties. The move to adventure mode has added quite a bit of weirdness (particularly since it still requires PFS characters), but at least GMs can make adjustments to make bounties a fun and enjoyable experience.

Full adventure mode would not be without its downsides- since then every bounty GMs and players would need to work together to determine what characters are ok to bring and what are the rules to make those characters. The PFS characters in adventure mode is, IMO, the best of both worlds for these short sessions. Players and GMs have an understanding of what characters can be brought, and GMs are still empowered to make adjustments.

There isn't a boon for it on the AcP store boon page last I checked so it isnt something you can buy access to. Which means it would need to either come from a scenario boon, or from a charity boon (more likely). But of the charity boons that have been released so far, none of them have been for that option.

I believe you're out of luck