Cottonseed PFS PbP (2E)

Game Master Michael Hallet

A part of the Flaxseed Pathfinder Lodge for the Pathfinder 2E.

Important links
Society Guide for second edition

Pregens formatted for use in a BBC code forum like this one.


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Dark Archive

Venture-Captain PBP Scenario and AP Tracker

Indeed Thanks Doug!


DungeonMaster

So, Thaumaturge says I can only choose a one-handed weapon as an implement. If I chose Katana the 1-handed/2-handed weapon or anything similar, I can legally do it right? I just won't get the IMPLEMENT’S INTERRUPTION benefit if I wield it 2-handed.

Grand Archive

DoubleGold wrote:
So, Thaumaturge says I can only choose a one-handed weapon as an implement. If I chose Katana the 1-handed/2-handed weapon or anything similar, I can legally do it right? I just won't get the IMPLEMENT’S INTERRUPTION benefit if I wield it 2-handed.
Interesting question. I know you won't get Implement's Empowerment:
Dark Archive wrote:
"You don't gain the benefit of implement's empowerment if you are holding anything in either hand other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica, and you must be holding at least one implement to gain the benefit."

Since you're holding a single implement in both hands, your "other hand" won't have a single one-handed weapon nor will it have "other implements" since its the same implement.

As for Implement's Interruption, it sure seems like you'd get to use it while wielding it two-handed.

Dark Archive wrote:
"Requirements You're holding your weapon implement and are benefiting from Exploit Vulnerability against a creature. The creature must be within your reach if you're wielding a melee weapon, or within 10 feet if you're wielding a ranged weapon."
And choosing your weapon implement is just
Dark Archive wrote:
"You can choose only a one-handed weapon as an implement".

You've chosen your katana as your weapon implement; it doesn't stop being your weapon implement if you hold it with two hands and you still meet all the requirements of Interruption.

In my opinion, I'd almost say that you can't pick a weapon with the "two-hand trait" to be your weapon implement because its not exclusively a one-handed weapon; its essentially both a one-handed and two-handed weapon equally.

Grand Lodge

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He/Him

A one-handed weapon is a one-handed weapon, regardless of which traits it has. If the only requirement is that it be a one-handed weapon, then you could absolutely choose it. As you surmised, while wielding it in two hands it becomes a two-handed weapon, but that would be true if you for some reason decided to wield a dagger in two hands too (per this post from Mike Sayre, one of the designers).

Mike Sayre wrote:
That's not how it works. Handedness in PF2 is determined by the number of hands being used to wield the weapon. So if you're using a jezail in two hands, it's a two-handed weapon and you can't use any options that require you to be using a firearm one-handed until you're back to wielding it in one hand. If you use a dagger in two hands, it's a two-handed weapon for the purposes of feats and abilities that require a two-handed weapon, as laid out on pages 279-280 of the CRB. When determining the handedness of a weapon, the two questions are just "What's the minimum number of hands required to wield this" and "How many hands am I currently using to wield it?"
Mike Sayre wrote:
Yeah, that's the key clause there. You can wield a dagger in two hands, but it only requires one. Shifting looks at the minimum requirements rather than the active state.

Grand Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
He/Him

So the TL;DR of that is:

  • A katana is a 1-handed weapon, regardless of its traits. You can choose it for something that requires you to choose a one-handed weapon (provided you have access to it, since it's Uncommon).
  • When you wield a katana with two hands, it becomes a two-handed weapon. You lose any benefits you would gain while wielding a one-handed weapon until such time you return to wielding it as a one-handed weapon.

    The dev ruling aligns with common sense. Let's not make this more complicated than it needs to be.

  • Grand Archive

    It feels pretty exploitative to have a class feature require the selection of a one-handed weapon, only for you to use it as a two-handed weapon with no drawback.


    This would be a good discussion for the Rules Discussion forum.

    Grand Lodge

    3 people marked this as a favorite.
    He/Him
    NovelEnigma wrote:
    It feels pretty exploitative to have a class feature require the selection of a one-handed weapon, only for you to use it as a two-handed weapon with no drawback.

    The drawback is you don't get any of the class feature benefits that require a one-handed weapon while using it two handed.

    Grand Archive

    There aren't any

    Grand Lodge

    He/Him

    I'm not understanding the problem you're seeing. You don't get some exploitative stacking benefit, since you wouldn't get any of the class feature benefits while using it two-handed.

    Grand Archive

    Dennis Muldoon wrote:
    I'm not understanding the problem you're seeing. You don't get some exploitative stacking benefit, since you wouldn't get any of the class feature benefits while using it two-handed.

    My problem is that there isn't a single class feature or benefit you lose from using it two-handed other than Implement's Empowerment which is irrelevant to the discussion of the benefits of Weapon Implement. You're getting all the features and benefits of weapon implement when you wield your weapon two handed even though you couldn't select a two handed implement in the first place. However, none of the weapon implement features require or even mention a one handed weapon at all.


    DungeonMaster
    NovelEnigma wrote:
    Dennis Muldoon wrote:
    I'm not understanding the problem you're seeing. You don't get some exploitative stacking benefit, since you wouldn't get any of the class feature benefits while using it two-handed.
    My problem is that there isn't a single class feature or benefit you lose from using it two-handed other than Implement's Empowerment which is irrelevant to the discussion of the benefits of Weapon Implement. You're getting all the features and benefits of weapon implement when you wield your weapon two handed even though you couldn't select a two handed implement in the first place. However, none of the weapon implement features require or even mention a one handed weapon at all.

    That's not how it works. Handedness in PF2 is determined by the number of hands being used to wield the weapon. So if you're using a jezail in two hands, it's a two-handed weapon and you can't use any options that require you to be using a firearm one-handed until you're back to wielding it in one hand. If you use a dagger in two hands, it's a two-handed weapon for the purposes of feats and abilities that require a two-handed weapon, as laid out on pages 279-280 of the CRB. When determining the handedness of a weapon, the two questions are just "What's the minimum number of hands required to wield this" and "How many hands am I currently using to wield it?"

    As it is now a two-handed weapon, the implement powers will no longer work. Anyway, I made a post in rules discussion Thaumaterge questions.

    Grand Archive

    DoubleGold wrote:
    NovelEnigma wrote:
    Dennis Muldoon wrote:
    I'm not understanding the problem you're seeing. You don't get some exploitative stacking benefit, since you wouldn't get any of the class feature benefits while using it two-handed.
    My problem is that there isn't a single class feature or benefit you lose from using it two-handed other than Implement's Empowerment which is irrelevant to the discussion of the benefits of Weapon Implement. You're getting all the features and benefits of weapon implement when you wield your weapon two handed even though you couldn't select a two handed implement in the first place. However, none of the weapon implement features require or even mention a one handed weapon at all.

    That's not how it works. Handedness in PF2 is determined by the number of hands being used to wield the weapon. So if you're using a jezail in two hands, it's a two-handed weapon and you can't use any options that require you to be using a firearm one-handed until you're back to wielding it in one hand. If you use a dagger in two hands, it's a two-handed weapon for the purposes of feats and abilities that require a two-handed weapon, as laid out on pages 279-280 of the CRB. When determining the handedness of a weapon, the two questions are just "What's the minimum number of hands required to wield this" and "How many hands am I currently using to wield it?"

    As it is now a two-handed weapon, the implement powers will no longer work. Anyway, I made a post in rules discussion Thaumaterge questions.
    I disagree with this as the rule about handedness seems irrelevant in this case. When you gain the Weapon Implement class feature:
    Dark Archive wrote:
    "Your implement is a special object of symbolic importance: your badge as you treat with the supernatural and a powerful tool if things turn violent. Choose an implement from the options to which you have access. You begin play with a mundane item of that type"

    That specific weapon is your implement regardless of you hold it in your hand, two hands, or with your feet. It never stops being your implement unless you choose a new one. Because none of the weapon implement class features actually require you to be wielding it one handed, you don't lose anything for wielding it two handed other than the generic class benefit of implement's empowerment as normal.

    Grand Lodge

    He/Him Human

    How is that exploitative?

    Grand Lodge

    He/Him

    You lose benefit based on the general implement rules:

    Implement Empowerment wrote:
    The power of your implement can also be turned to the more common task of combat, its power adding to and amplifying the effects of runes and other magical empowerments. When you Strike, you can trace mystic patterns with an implement you're holding to empower the Strike, causing it to deal 2 additional damage per weapon damage die. Channeling the power requires full use of your hands. You don't gain the benefit of implement's empowerment if you are holding anything in either hand other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica, and you must be holding at least one implement to gain the benefit.

    If you are wielding your implement in two hands, it no longer meets the bolded requirements in there.

    I'm curious what other benefit you think should be lost?

    Grand Lodge

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    He/Him

    Another thing to think about: by wielding that katana in two hands, you are going from d6 to d10, gaining an average of 2 damage per die. By doing so, you forgo Implement Empowerment, which costs you...2 damage per die. You get no net benefit from wielding it two-handed. It's almost like the designers foresaw this issue and designed to mitigate it...

    Grand Archive

    Dennis Muldoon wrote:

    You lose benefit based on the general implement rules:

    Implement Empowerment wrote:
    The power of your implement can also be turned to the more common task of combat, its power adding to and amplifying the effects of runes and other magical empowerments. When you Strike, you can trace mystic patterns with an implement you're holding to empower the Strike, causing it to deal 2 additional damage per weapon damage die. Channeling the power requires full use of your hands. You don't gain the benefit of implement's empowerment if you are holding anything in either hand other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica, and you must be holding at least one implement to gain the benefit.

    If you are wielding your implement in two hands, it no longer meets the bolded requirements in there.

    I'm curious what other benefit you think should be lost?

    Like I've already said, you definitely lose Implement's Empowerment, no question about that, but that has nothing to do with Weapon Implement. The thing you should lose is anything requiring your weapon implement, in this case it would be Implements Interruption. The issue is that despite having to pick a one handed weapon to be your weapon implement, Implements Interruption doesn't reference handedness at all.

    Why would you need to pick a one handed weapon for Weapon Implement if it literally doesn't matter?

    Silver Crusade

    3 people marked this as a favorite.
    Female Human Level 5 Homemaker
    BretI wrote:

    This would be a good discussion for the Rules Discussion forum.

    Seconded with a smile. :)

    Grand Lodge

    He/Him
    NovelEnigma wrote:
    Why would you need to pick a one handed weapon for Weapon Implement if it literally doesn't matter?

    It does matter, for Implement Empowerment. Why are you ignoring that completely? Class features don't exist in isolation, they exist in context of the class as a whole. Just because there's nothing within the weapon implement specifically doesn't mean you aren't losing something by losing IE. In fact, the amount of damage you lose is exactly equal to the amount you would gain by wielding it two-handed, as I said above. You're getting no net benefit, so why are you so determined that you need to lose something else?

    Grand Lodge

    He/Him

    Anyway, as others have said this should go to the rules forum. The fact of the matter here is that picking a katana (if you have access), a bastard sword, or any other 1-handed weapon with the 2-handed trait is within the rules. You don't have to like it, but this is PFS not your home game.


    B19 Grim Tidings ||

    On the topic of bounties: So they have to be PFS characters, but the GM can adjust the scenario. Does that mean one could run a level 1 bounty as a level 9 by adjusting the creatures and skill check DCs up to match?


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    The PFS characters would still have to be Level 1, but if they're up for an APL+8 combat, sure.


    B19 Grim Tidings ||
    Watery Soup wrote:
    The PFS characters would still have to be Level 1, but if they're up for an APL+8 combat, sure.

    Man, bounties are super weird. Why not just have them use standard PFS rules rather than allow adjustments at all?

    Liberty's Edge

    The main difference AFAIK is that what happens to PCs during a bounty isn't permanent. If you TPK, you don't have to report all the PCs as dead, for example.


    B19 Grim Tidings ||
    Michael Hallet wrote:
    The main difference AFAIK is that what happens to PCs during a bounty isn't permanent. If you TPK, you don't have to report all the PCs as dead, for example.

    Well, I suppose that is a nice benefit


    A few of the early Bounties had some tough combat encounters that weren't very new player friendly, it is very nice to have the freedom to adjust the scenario downward.

    The One-Shots are played in campaign mode and can be upscaled as you proposed to adjust for characters of other levels, for PFS credit.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    I run the early bounties with additional low level creatures instead of adding the elite template to the already strong bosses, it's been a much more enjoyable experience.

    Radiant Oath

    Nice thing about the bounties is you can also adjust how you run them. Like getting multiple rounds of skill checks done in one go -- makes it less repetitive and tedious...

    Dark Archive

    Venture-Captain PBP Scenario and AP Tracker
    GM Tiger wrote:
    Nice thing about the bounties is you can also adjust how you run them. Like getting multiple rounds of skill checks done in one go -- makes it less repetitive and tedious...

    that is also just part of trying to make PbP as efficient and timely as possible.


    4 people marked this as a favorite.
    VL, Online VTT| Map: -- | -- | ◆ ◇ ↺ |
    GM NovelEnigma wrote:
    Watery Soup wrote:
    The PFS characters would still have to be Level 1, but if they're up for an APL+8 combat, sure.
    Man, bounties are super weird. Why not just have them use standard PFS rules rather than allow adjustments at all?

    Bounties are meant to be separate from PFS so the PFS sanctioning has been tacked on, gone through several iterations, and yeah, is pretty weird. Originally they weren't run in adventure mode and were run like a normal scenario. But then we had some bounties where parties were TPK'ing and the society rules "run as written" left GMs with no choice but to slaughter parties. The move to adventure mode has added quite a bit of weirdness (particularly since it still requires PFS characters), but at least GMs can make adjustments to make bounties a fun and enjoyable experience.

    Full adventure mode would not be without its downsides- since then every bounty GMs and players would need to work together to determine what characters are ok to bring and what are the rules to make those characters. The PFS characters in adventure mode is, IMO, the best of both worlds for these short sessions. Players and GMs have an understanding of what characters can be brought, and GMs are still empowered to make adjustments.


    B19 Grim Tidings ||

    Thank you for the detailed insight into the matter


    Having finished my first bounty, I have no idea how to find another game. So I will throw myself on the mercy of the Cottonseed Lodge. I'd most like to join an AP on the longer side, if possible. Would anyone happen to be running one?


    AtAT | url=| | Extinction | url=

    APs are generally recruited on the main Recruiting forum. Cottonseed is primarily for PFS recruiting, so PFS scenarios, bounties, and sometimes modules.


    Personally, I cross-post in this Lodge when I recruit for Adventures. Thre are three specific reasons for doing that: (1) I have the intention of claiming PFS credit when I run (so arguably it's relevant to PFS and very little work for me to hand out player Chronicles), (2) I run all my public games more or less according to PFS rules anyway so people who have a beef with PFS aren't going to be happy with my GMing (sorry edgelords), and (3) bluntly, I'm not going to commit to running a year-long campaign with unknowns, so I'm giving PbP PFS people first dibs anyway because they have an auditable history.

    I haven't GMed an Adventure Path on PbP, but if I ever do, I'd absolutely cross-post here as well.

    Radiant Oath

    Alastriona Eyes wrote:
    Having finished my first bounty, I have no idea how to find another game. So I will throw myself on the mercy of the Cottonseed Lodge. I'd most like to join an AP on the longer side, if possible. Would anyone happen to be running one?

    I just had a seat open up in a Bounty I'll be running for Gameday if you want to join.


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    I think I took that spot. Alastriona, I'm happy to give it to you if you'd like to play the Bounty!


    Venture-Agent, Play-by-Post

    Currently all tables for the PFS2 3-98 multi-table special for Gameday XI are full. We have one waitlisted player for levels 1-2 and one standby GM.

    If others are interested in playing in this special please go to the sign up sheet and place yourself on the waitlist so our GM has time to properly prepare the table if we are going to add one.

    Radiant Oath

    I once heard that the special is repeatable to a certain extent. Is it tier-based (i.e. I can play the 1-4 and the 5-8)? Is this still true?


    AtAT | url=| | Extinction | url=

    Yes. There are two tiers for playing 3-98, 1-4 and 3-6, if I recall correctly, and you can get credit once for each tier.
    But you can't play both tiers at the same time at the same convention.


    4 people marked this as a favorite.
    3-98 Expedition into Pallid Peril
    GM Blake wrote:

    Yes. There are two tiers for playing 3-98, 1-4 and 3-6, if I recall correctly, and you can get credit once for each tier.

    But you can't play both tiers at the same time at the same convention.

    The rules got simplified for that, as listed on the 3-98 product page.

    Quote:
    This adventure can be played for credit twice, each time with a different PC, regardless of level range. Likewise, a GM can apply credit for running this adventure up to two times to a different PC in a level range of their choice.

    Radiant Oath

    Had a read through of 04-01. Looks like heaps fun. I’ll run a table once one or 2 of my gdxi tables finish. :)

    Silver Crusade

    Human Male | VA | New Zealand | UTC+12 | PFS1e 1-47 | pbp(Discord): SFS 5-02 FtP(884); PFS2e 3-19 RfC(597)

    Is it Gamesday 9 (IX) or Gamesday 11 (XI). I've seen it both ways now.

    @GM Tiger: If you do, I'd be in.


    Venture-Agent, Play-by-Post
    phaeton_nz wrote:

    Is it Gamesday 9 (IX) or Gamesday 11 (XI). I've seen it both ways now.

    @GM Tiger: If you do, I'd be in.

    Gameday XI (11) though it's an easy typo to make.

    Radiant Oath

    @phaeton_nz sure thing.


    Venture-Agent, Play-by-Post

    For the three players wait-listed for PFS2 3-98, you have now been moved to a table on this spreadsheet. Your table has been added to the bottom of the list. Please complete your relevant information as soon as you can. Your GM will have the table links added as soon as they can.

    This is a level 1-2 table that could use an extra player or two if anyone is interested. Use the link to sign up.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.
    Venture-Agent, Play-by-Post

    Gameday XI has officially begun!

    GMs, if you haven't already fired up your games, you may do so now. Remember to have fun and don't forget to Explore, Report, and Cooperate!

    Dark Archive

    7 people marked this as a favorite.
    Venture-Captain PBP Scenario and AP Tracker

    Over the past two years, the Find the Path Discord Lodge has been growing and we have welcomed more members into this awesome community you have all have all shaped and fomented. We have currently 1,400 members and have run over 222 PbD games in the last 6 months! That's 900 tables of Society and Non-Society games since this lodge's creation!

    With so much growth, it has become necessary for us to up our game and increase our venture officers for this lodge.

    It is with great pleasure that I announce the second venture agent to help out with this. Give a shout out and welcome in EagleKing to the VO fold as he gave his blood pact last night.

    Eagleking64#5320

    Silver Crusade

    Human Male | VA | New Zealand | UTC+12 | PFS1e 1-47 | pbp(Discord): SFS 5-02 FtP(884); PFS2e 3-19 RfC(597)

    Congrats EagleKing

    About these Dark Archive Casefile adventures ...

    Are they equivalent to Bounties? And does one get Chronicles from them?


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    They are more like 2-3 hours each, and give 2xp and other rewards appropriate to that amount.


    Someone to run them, please?

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