The Godsrain Prophecies Part Ten

Wednesday, April 10, 2024

Despite my apprehension at reading about the deaths of so many of Golarion’s gods and my continuing belief that these Godsrain Prophecies cannot be taken at their word, I still feel a bit wistful about reaching the end of my analysis. While it is certainly possible that there are other prophecies in this vein, this is the last that I will read before delivering the collection to my Lady.

I am not sure why I feel so hesitant to put this work aside. Of course, there is something satisfying about feeling like you are a part of important research, even if the experience of it is less than pleasant. (I think here of those who have documented the beliefs of faiths that are somewhat more difficult to understand, as in To Scream Is Divine: My Year at a Nidalese Temple and its somewhat more uneven follow-up, Kuthite Lullabies.) Beyond that, though, I believe I will miss the gods themselves—or at least the insights into them that these texts have given me, even when I don’t believe a word that I am reading.

After reviewing the entirety of the Godsrain Prophecies, I am confident in one thing and one thing only: that the author has been made privy, whether through prophecy or otherwise, to the fact that one of Golarion’s gods will die. The preoccupation with the subject of a dead god, accuracy of some of the smaller details, and feeling of anticipation throughout are compelling evidence in favor of my theory. With all the contradictions and confusions in the text, though, I do not believe that the author knows which god, how they die, or why.

Unfortunately, this is where my certainty ends, as there are several different reasons why the author may have taken this information and used it to create the prophecies. It is possible that they feared what might happen and wrote these prophecies as a warning, attempting to prevent the dangers they dreamed up. It is also possible that they hope the death will be a destabilizing event, and that they intended for these prophecies to weaken faith and trust in the gods, making them easier to abandon in the aftermath of a catastrophe. There is no way to know, as I will admit to my Lady; I hope that in her wisdom, she can discern the truth.

If nothing else, as with all futures, only time will tell.

–Yivali




The “Death” of Rovagug

The chant starts as a whisper—an idle piece of pillow talk on nights Sarenrae cannot sleep, her fingertips gone marching on the canvas that is Shelyn’s back, her hands casting surging shadows onto Desna’s resting arm. She weaves a tale of how to win the battle that she hungers for, imagining alliances that span across the Great Beyond and speaking life to victory until the passion of her dream becomes a shared ambition. All three lovers make mention of it, idly, to those who share their interests, pitched in a tone and timbre meant to echo in the listener’s chest. The message drums with nostalgia tinged with rage and thirst for justice long delayed, and it is passed along from ear to ear until it finally circles back, a call to action with the deadly urgency of war.

Imprisonment is not enough. Rovagug must die.

There are more gods now than there were when Rovagug was sealed away, and many sign up for the quest to kill the Great Destroyer, to stand alongside Abadar and Gozreh and Calistria. Some do so to show their mettle, some to gather bragging rights, and some to reassure themselves that if there is something to gain, they won’t leave empty-handed. Sarenrae worries, privately, that many do not understand the danger they’ve signed up for, but she takes the names and notes the skills and hands the roles out all the same—rear guard to those who fear but fight, support for those who dwell in hope, melee for those who want to feel the blood beneath their fingers.

At first, it seems too easy. Asmodeus unlocks the seal that leads into the Dead Vault and gods pour through in something like a line. Wrackworms turn from feasting on the Rough Beast’s flesh to face them, but fall to sword and spell and scythe as if they were an afterthought, slicking the ground around themselves with remnants of their dying. After the cheers and murmurs fade, a gnawing silence fills the air, thick and dank and hungry, and for a moment, no one moves, a huddled mass of godhood waiting for something to happen.

Then Rovagug is everywhere—suddenly, impossibly. Rending, clawing, tearing open, shoveling exalted flesh into his waiting mouths. Apsu’s wing is torn asunder. Hei Feng’s feathers fall like rain. Grandmother Spider holds her own, her arms a whirling blur of blades, but watches as Thamir falls still, body crushed beneath a claw, and Hanspur drowns a second time, awash in his own blood. But Rovagug, despite his power, cannot overcome them all, and soon the tide of battle changes, rattling the prison’s walls as gods press their advantages, slamming his body side to side—an endless, rhythmic dying.

With each impact on the Dead Vault’s walls, Golarion is shaken. Buildings tumble into streets. Rivers shift to find new banks. Old trees flatten forests. Volcanoes long thought dormant, from Taldor to the Five Kings Mountains, spit dense ash into the sky, blanketing the life around them and blocking out the sun. The Eye of Abendego expands twofold, turning the Mwangi Expanse into newly Sodden Lands. When Rovagug is finally still, Sarenrae standing by his head with her arms held high in victory, the gods emerge from the Dead Vault to find a world that thinks the end has come.

After all the dead are mourned, no one agrees on what comes next. The aftermath grows tense and bitter, victory turned vicious. With Rovagug no threat to them, godly alliances feel heavier, a burden to be shrugged off or set down and ignored. How to rebuild a ruined land becomes the stuff of smaller wars—Abadar feuds with Erastil, Irori shuns Iomedae, Sarenrae feels the weight of blame hurled at her from every corner, and Norgorber sides with anyone who might advance his cause. But while they bicker here and now, the gods may yet unite again, as deep in Avistani soil, disturbed by distant tremors, the worst of Rovagug’s spawn have felt their prison falter and ready for destruction that would make their sire proud.

An array of 20 portraits depicting the gods of the Pathfinder setting. Asmodeus, Cayden Cailean, Desna, Erastil, Irori, Nethys, Pharasma, Rovagug, Urgathoa, and Zon-Kuthon’s portraits have been marked “safe.”

While imprisoned, Rovagug maintains the peace between the gods, but in his absence, what prevents war between the immortals?





That is certainly one way to end things. If I am being honest, the idea of Rovagug trapped within the bowels of Golarion has always made me a bit nervous, but it seems it may be better than the alternative! Which gives me one final idea as to why these prophecies exist—perhaps they argue against change and tell those who read them that, even for those gods whom you might fear or hate, the status quo is better than anything new that you might long for—a desperate version of a wish that, no matter what they have seen coming, it would be best for things to continue as they are. Sadly for the author, change, I believe, is inevitable. I hope only that we are ready and that we meet it, heads held high and wings outstretched, however and whenever it comes.


Don’t miss our exciting livestream on Tuesday, April 16 at 4:00 PM Pacific at twitch.tv/officialpaizo, where members of the Pathfinder team will announce who among the remaining deities is the unfortunate victim presaged in these prophecies. In addition to revealing which major deity is going to die in the War of Immortals event, we’ll also lay out the entire slate of War of Immortals tie-in products coming in the second half of 2024. Make your final predictions and join us in just under a week.

About the Author

Erin Roberts has been thrilled to be able to contribute a few small threads to the fabric of Golarion in the pages of books like Lost Omens Firebrands, Lost Omens Highhelm, and Lost Omens Travel Guide. In addition to her work for Paizo, she freelances across the TTRPG world (and was selected as a Diana Jones Award Emerging Designer Program Winner in 2023), has had fiction published in magazines including Asimov’s, Clarkesworld, and The Dark, and talks about writing every week on the Writing Excuses podcast. Catch up with her latest at linktr.ee/erinroberts.

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2 people marked this as a favorite.

Kind of a flat ending, but still a really interesting series overall. Excited for War of Immortals, even if I think this story kind of misses.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Calliope5431 wrote:
Ridge wrote:

Well I called this one wrong.

Poor Sarenrae, don't folks realize you can't make a safer omelet without utterly obliterating the fetid yolk of evil that was in the center of the world egg?

err or something like that.

But Rovagug is on the Safe list now, and instead of speculating on his death, dozens of fan fiction writers will instead debate whether or not the Dead Vault allows Conjugal visits and from whom! :)

I admit I was surprised that Sarenrae believes that "Imprisonment is not enough. Rovagug must die." given her status as goddess of redemption rather than, er, capital punishment.

Also given the LAST time she decided to personally punish things related to Rovagug rather than try a softer approach. Pit of Gormuz and all that.

Not that I think Rovagug actually could have been redeemed, it's just surprising given Sarenrae's history with the Beast.

Deities not being up to par has been a common thread throughout these prophecies.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

11 people marked this as a favorite.
Saedar wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

I was hoping Rovagug would be dead already when they opened the vault. But the story was good.

I need Paizo to give us "Kuthite Lullabies" now though.

+1

I really want them to include lore snippets from the docs previewed in these prophecies. Maybe like chapter art in some Book of the Dead-esque project. "To Scream Is Divine: My Year at a Nidalese Temple" sounds bananas.

We currently have no plans to explore the specific in-world titles Yivali cited in this story, but I for one welcome all interpretations of such that the community can come up with on Pathfinder Infinite.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Shelynite Songbird wrote:
Nintendogeek01 wrote:
I will be happy if Shelyn is not the one to die next week. I mean sure there are others I could be bummed about dying but... please don't be Shelyn...

Unliking and re-liking this just so I can like it twice. Shelyn was the first love/beauty deity I ever saw in a major setting who wasn't overtly sexualized and who was unequivocally pro-queerness and beauty outside of accepted standards.

I will be ever so sad if we lose her

I once again beat my "PR suicide" drum on Shelyn dying precisely because of that. I've got a whole nine course meal of hats lined up if I'm wrong, of course.

(I think it's possible she dies and merges with her brother, or he takes up her mantle and becomes some sort of off-the-wall crazy love-and-pain composite queer deity, but it's a lot less likely than him dying and the reverse happening was)

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Saedar wrote:
Interesting reference to the super-dangerous Rova-Spawn. Wonder if this is the same creature that hunted Erastil in his prophecy.

I thought that was just reference to Tarrasque in his post ogl can't refer by name glory


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jonathan Morgantini wrote:
BookBird wrote:

A very cool prophecy to cap it off! I never quite settled on whether it was possible they'd be willing to kill Rovagug, but I suppose this settles that. But it's an interesting future this offers; he can be killed, he can be beaten. Even if doing so would be catastrophic for the Cage he inhabits.

A few of the gods haven't been mentioned at all in the prophecies thus far. Gozreh, Lamashtu and I think Calistria have so far been unmentioned. Though I don't think this has any bearing on anything. No mentions of Dark Tapestry stuff here either, which is what I was thinking based on the previous prophecy. Unless you count Rovagug himself as lovecraftian enough. Anyway, is it too insane of a theory that some of the non-core deities mentioned here might be in danger in War of Immortals? Apsu, Hanspur, Grandmother Spider, Hei Feng, Thamir. Though I seriously doubt they'd kill Hei Feng only a few months after the Tian Xia World Guide comes out, and even more so Grandmother Spider.

...And the prophecies end with my two favourite core 20 gods on the chopping block. John Paizo, I will pay you two whole dollarydoos if you kill literally anyone except Lamashtu. It can be all nine of the rest, I'm willing to do that. Now let's keep this hush-hush.

I was summoned, but am as yet unbribeable.

So you're saying there's a chance.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Raven Black wrote:
Calliope5431 wrote:
Ridge wrote:

Well I called this one wrong.

Poor Sarenrae, don't folks realize you can't make a safer omelet without utterly obliterating the fetid yolk of evil that was in the center of the world egg?

err or something like that.

But Rovagug is on the Safe list now, and instead of speculating on his death, dozens of fan fiction writers will instead debate whether or not the Dead Vault allows Conjugal visits and from whom! :)

I admit I was surprised that Sarenrae believes that "Imprisonment is not enough. Rovagug must die." given her status as goddess of redemption rather than, er, capital punishment.

Also given the LAST time she decided to personally punish things related to Rovagug rather than try a softer approach. Pit of Gormuz and all that.

Not that I think Rovagug actually could have been redeemed, it's just surprising given Sarenrae's history with the Beast.

Deities not being up to par as been a common thread throughout these prophecies.

You know that's honestly fair. And hey. Sometimes you just need:

VENGEANCE SHALL BE BROUGHT UPON THE GUILTY! THERE SHALL BE NO EXCUSES! A CLEANSING FIRE WILL BURN THEM!

in your life. It's very liberating.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I've said it before, and I would be shocked if it proves to be the case, but the only acceptable death for Lamashtu would be to die birthing the most world-threatening monster Golarion has ever seen, and for the "Godsrain" to be the afterbirth, warping the flesh of all it touches, given them powers which will be the only hope for stopping the monster. Otherwise, hands of Lamashtu!!!!


The Raven Black wrote:
Prismatic “Mat” Gay wrote:
visc wrote:
BookBird wrote:

A very cool prophecy to cap it off! I never quite settled on whether it was possible they'd be willing to kill Rovagug, but I suppose this settles that. But it's an interesting future this offers; he can be killed, he can be beaten. Even if doing so would be catastrophic for the Cage he inhabits.

A few of the gods haven't been mentioned at all in the prophecies thus far. Gozreh, Lamashtu and I think Calistria have so far been unmentioned. Though I don't think this has any bearing on anything. No mentions of Dark Tapestry stuff here either, which is what I was thinking based on the previous prophecy. Unless you count Rovagug himself as lovecraftian enough. Anyway, is it too insane of a theory that some of the non-core deities mentioned here might be in danger in War of Immortals? Apsu, Hanspur, Grandmother Spider, Hei Feng, Thamir. Though I seriously doubt they'd kill Hei Feng only a few months after the Tian Xia World Guide comes out, and even more so Grandmother Spider.

...And the prophecies end with my two favourite core 20 gods on the chopping block. John Paizo, I will pay you two whole dollarydoos if you kill literally anyone except Lamashtu. It can be all nine of the rest, I'm willing to do that. Now let's keep this hush-hush.

Yes but Calistria and Gozreh were suddenly mentioned here on the tenth prophecy leaving Lamashtu as the only unmentioned god. Too much of a coincidence imho. I betcha someone on Paizo thinks its clever to secretly hint at the dead god by having them as the only unmentioned one. Plus it technically makes sense since, if the main subject of every prophecy is 'guaranteed safe' then the one and only unmentioned god is the 'guaranteed dead'. Too much of a coincidence here imho
Don't know how likely I think that is, but that would be a very fun and clever loophole-adjacent thing

I think Paizo thought of this too and they purposefully mislead us thusly.

Unless they thought we would...

Prophecy 9 mentioned to look for commonalities so there probably HAS to be a common linking thread to the dead god. It's just a matter of identifying the right one.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Calliope5431 wrote:
Shelynite Songbird wrote:
Nintendogeek01 wrote:
I will be happy if Shelyn is not the one to die next week. I mean sure there are others I could be bummed about dying but... please don't be Shelyn...

Unliking and re-liking this just so I can like it twice. Shelyn was the first love/beauty deity I ever saw in a major setting who wasn't overtly sexualized and who was unequivocally pro-queerness and beauty outside of accepted standards.

I will be ever so sad if we lose her

I once again beat my "PR suicide" drum on Shelyn dying precisely because of that. I've got a whole nine course meal of hats lined up if I'm wrong, of course.

(I think it's possible she dies and merges with her brother, or he takes up her mantle and becomes some sort of off-the-wall crazy love-and-pain composite queer deity, but it's a lot less likely than him dying and the reverse happening)

I think if she dies, Zon-Kuthon will be angry. Only he is allowed to play with his sister-toy. Only he can decide when to break her and make her sing sweet agonies of despair. Something has taken what passes for pleasure from him. And that something will face the most grotesque punishment the Midnight Sun can create.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Unicore wrote:
I've said it before, and I would be shocked if it proves to be the case, but the only acceptable death for Lamashtu would be to die birthing the most world-threatening monster Golarion has ever seen, and for the "Godsrain" to be the afterbirth, warping the flesh of all it touches, given them powers which will be the only hope for stopping the monster. Otherwise, hands of Lamashtu!!!!

That is a very interesting idea ngl. A central theme across the prophecies is that the death of a god causes widespread chaos so my prediction is that Lamashtu foresaw this and decided to kill herself to inflict as much pain as possible to the rest of Golarion. And then a new AP will be released to deal with the aftermath.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Unicore wrote:
I've said it before, and I would be shocked if it proves to be the case, but the only acceptable death for Lamashtu would be to die birthing the most world-threatening monster Golarion has ever seen, and for the "Godsrain" to be the afterbirth, warping the flesh of all it touches, given them powers which will be the only hope for stopping the monster. Otherwise, hands of Lamashtu!!!!

...Acceptable.

(Now I wonder whether the god split in twain mentioned by the Exemplar is someone that's not from the core 20)

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Calliope5431 wrote:
Ridge wrote:

Well I called this one wrong.

Poor Sarenrae, don't folks realize you can't make a safer omelet without utterly obliterating the fetid yolk of evil that was in the center of the world egg?

err or something like that.

But Rovagug is on the Safe list now, and instead of speculating on his death, dozens of fan fiction writers will instead debate whether or not the Dead Vault allows Conjugal visits and from whom! :)

I admit I was surprised that Sarenrae believes that "Imprisonment is not enough. Rovagug must die." given her status as goddess of redemption rather than, er, capital punishment.

Also given the LAST time she decided to personally punish things related to Rovagug rather than try a softer approach. Pit of Gormuz and all that.

Not that I think Rovagug actually could have been redeemed, it's just surprising given Sarenrae's history with the Beast. Good thing for all concerned it turned out a little better than last time...

I don't think it's particularly surprising, personally - she has an anathema of "fail to strike down evil", and has always been a deity focused on the possibility of redemption for those who are repentant and seek it, and the use of her scimitar and fire against those who reject the possibility of doing better and continue to harm innocents. Rovagug seems to fit the second category well - if she had the option to permanently kill Rovagug without risking the lives of those fighting him or on Golarion, I feel she happily would.


Huh. So, was honestly expecting Rovagug to bite it, but thinking on it...not surprised. He's the Ultimate Evil. You don't beat that easily without wondering "oh BLEEP, maybe it wasn't worth it".

Still, yeah, I'm wondering if this is an indication it's Abadar after all - because as Yivali notes, the big theme is change. Abadar falling is going to be an Alea Iacta Est moment; as shown here, killing Rovagug didn't stop the concept of disaster at all.

(Also, yeah, Shelyn deserves to live.)


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Calliope5431 wrote:
Shelynite Songbird wrote:
Nintendogeek01 wrote:
I will be happy if Shelyn is not the one to die next week. I mean sure there are others I could be bummed about dying but... please don't be Shelyn...

Unliking and re-liking this just so I can like it twice. Shelyn was the first love/beauty deity I ever saw in a major setting who wasn't overtly sexualized and who was unequivocally pro-queerness and beauty outside of accepted standards.

I will be ever so sad if we lose her

I once again beat my "PR suicide" drum on Shelyn dying precisely because of that. I've got a whole nine course meal of hats lined up if I'm wrong, of course.

(I think it's possible she dies and merges with her brother, or he takes up her mantle and becomes some sort of off-the-wall crazy love-and-pain composite queer deity, but it's a lot less likely than him dying and the reverse happening was)

Did you save the receipts for those hats in the event we're correct and my worst fear comes to pass?

And in the event that we are, happily, wrong did you want salt or pepper with those?


Arcaian wrote:
Calliope5431 wrote:
Ridge wrote:

Well I called this one wrong.

Poor Sarenrae, don't folks realize you can't make a safer omelet without utterly obliterating the fetid yolk of evil that was in the center of the world egg?

err or something like that.

But Rovagug is on the Safe list now, and instead of speculating on his death, dozens of fan fiction writers will instead debate whether or not the Dead Vault allows Conjugal visits and from whom! :)

I admit I was surprised that Sarenrae believes that "Imprisonment is not enough. Rovagug must die." given her status as goddess of redemption rather than, er, capital punishment.

Also given the LAST time she decided to personally punish things related to Rovagug rather than try a softer approach. Pit of Gormuz and all that.

Not that I think Rovagug actually could have been redeemed, it's just surprising given Sarenrae's history with the Beast. Good thing for all concerned it turned out a little better than last time...

I don't think it's particularly surprising, personally - she has an anathema of "fail to strike down evil", and has always been a deity focused on the possibility of redemption for those who are repentant and seek it, and the use of her scimitar and fire against those who reject the possibility of doing better and continue to harm innocents. Rovagug seems to fit the second category well - if she had the option to permanently kill Rovagug without risking the lives of those fighting him or on Golarion, I feel she happily would.

I suppose that's fair. It was just interesting because one of her primary motivations for being focused on redemption was the fallout from blowing up Gormuz. So I'd have expected a little more care.


Evan Tarlton wrote:
Jonathan Morgantini wrote:
I was summoned, but am as yet unbribeable.
So you're saying there's a chance.

Everyone has their price!


9 people marked this as a favorite.
Calliope5431 wrote:
Arcaian wrote:
Calliope5431 wrote:
Ridge wrote:

Well I called this one wrong.

Poor Sarenrae, don't folks realize you can't make a safer omelet without utterly obliterating the fetid yolk of evil that was in the center of the world egg?

err or something like that.

But Rovagug is on the Safe list now, and instead of speculating on his death, dozens of fan fiction writers will instead debate whether or not the Dead Vault allows Conjugal visits and from whom! :)

I admit I was surprised that Sarenrae believes that "Imprisonment is not enough. Rovagug must die." given her status as goddess of redemption rather than, er, capital punishment.

Also given the LAST time she decided to personally punish things related to Rovagug rather than try a softer approach. Pit of Gormuz and all that.

Not that I think Rovagug actually could have been redeemed, it's just surprising given Sarenrae's history with the Beast. Good thing for all concerned it turned out a little better than last time...

I don't think it's particularly surprising, personally - she has an anathema of "fail to strike down evil", and has always been a deity focused on the possibility of redemption for those who are repentant and seek it, and the use of her scimitar and fire against those who reject the possibility of doing better and continue to harm innocents. Rovagug seems to fit the second category well - if she had the option to permanently kill Rovagug without risking the lives of those fighting him or on Golarion, I feel she happily would.
I suppose that's fair. It was just interesting because one of her primary motivations for being focused on redemption was the fallout from blowing up Gormuz. So I'd have expected a little more care.

I continue to feel the author of these prophecies is also warning the gods to caretake their domains and not succumb to pettiness. So it's a "hey sun lady? You hate the big evil bug, and I get it, but it's best to remember why you looked at Gormuz and declared 'never again', 'kay?"


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm keeping my "probably not one of Team Badguy" marker in place.

And my wingnut dead pool bet remains Calistria.

Not surprised at all that Rover's gonna stick around.

Thanks, Erin, for ten fun fictions!


9 people marked this as a favorite.

I still feel like 'failure' or a god losing sight of their purpose is a big part of their

Erastil is out-hunted. His followers then fail to track down the beast that killed him.

Cayden loses his confidence, then is betrayed by his own friends and followers.

Pharasma, the god most tied to prophecy, crumbles under it and notably her systems and psychopomps are basically useless in maintaining any order without her.

Asmodeus' entire system is brought down and repudiated by his death.

Zon-Kuthon falls, but even beyond that we then see Dou-bral abandon his station and Shelyn destroy artistic creativity in the aftermath.

Even Urgathoa, who sort of 'wins' I think is notable in that she does more to further the cause of spreading undeath and upending Pharasma's order by dying than she ever did by unliving. Doubly ironic given that Urgathoa's existence is sort of an act of defiance against that unmaking. Urgathoa's assassin also essentially fails here, in that undeath runs rampant because of it.

... Even in this story: Obviously, the gods somewhat fail to protect Golarion, but Rovagug here fails utterly at being a reality-ending threat. The battle is described as intense, but the being who was supposed to devour all of reality failing to even destroy the single world his final battle takes place on is somewhat pathetic, don't you think?

etc.

One notable connection is also the idea of a god falling in part because they've stepped away from their original purpose.

Desna is specifically disparaged for turning her attention away from watching the stars. Erastil, likewise, stops being just a hunt god and becomes a god of family and community as well. Both of them fall in their respective prophecies perhaps in part because of the dilution of their domain.

We also see a similar theme of gods trying to step 'beyond' their station. Nethys tries to tamper with the fundamental laws of reality and dooms large parts of the world for it. Irori allows his selfish need for personal perfection doom everything else. There are even shades of this in Urgathoa's death, with Arazni stepping too far by taking revenge on another god, and this story where trying to circumvent the 'natural order' by killing Rovagug here and now starts a calamity.

More than half of these stories are written in such a way that you can squarely blame everything that goes wrong on a god failing to stay in their lane, and in every story you can expect a god and/or their followers to fail to make anything better.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

One thing to Consider... Lasmashtu might not be mentioned because perhaps she *Penned* these false prophecies... I feel like it could be significant that she was left out completely but it doesn't have to be that shes the one that dies.


Squiggit wrote:

I still feel like 'failure' or a god losing sight of their purpose is a big part of their

Erastil is out-hunted. His followers then fail to track down the beast that killed him.

Cayden loses his confidence, then is betrayed by his own friends and followers.

Pharasma, the god most tied to prophecy, crumbles under it and notably her systems and psychopomps are basically useless in maintaining any order without her.

Asmodeus' entire system is brought down and repudiated by his death.

Zon-Kuthon falls, but even beyond that we then see Dou-bral abandon his station and Shelyn destroy artistic creativity in the aftermath.

Even Urgathoa, who sort of 'wins' I think is notable in that she does more to further the cause of spreading undeath and upending Pharasma's order by dying than she ever did by unliving. Doubly ironic given that Urgathoa's existence is sort of an act of defiance against that unmaking. Urgathoa's assassin also essentially fails here, in that undeath runs rampant because of it.

... Even in this story: Obviously, the gods somewhat fail to protect Golarion, but Rovagug here fails utterly at being a reality-ending threat. The battle is described as intense, but the being who was supposed to devour all of reality failing to even destroy the single world his final battle takes place on is somewhat pathetic, don't you think?

etc.

One notable connection is also the idea of a god falling in part because they've stepped away from their original purpose.

Desna is specifically disparaged for turning her attention away from watching the stars. Erastil, likewise, stops being just a hunt god and becomes a god of family and community as well. Both of them fall in their respective prophecies perhaps in part because of the dilution of their domain.

We also see a similar theme of gods trying to step 'beyond' their station. Nethys tries to tamper with the fundamental laws of reality and dooms large parts of the world for it. Irori allows his selfish need for personal perfection...

Hey, you can't disparage Rovagug too much! He killed a wet rat and Bilbo's more competent cousin, after all...

But yes he's not really presented as a destroyer of worlds and devourer of gods in this, is he?


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A thought that just occurred to me: with a potential theme of "gods changing or not changing", I'd expect there to be some shuffling of domains amongst the surviving deities, in the aftermath. This would fulfil "changes to the Prismatic Ray", without necessarily someone dying or leaving or joining.
It'd also fit with "people might want to worship a pantheon of Torag's family, without Torag included", if Torag sufficiently changes so that he no longer fits the 'theme'. (Of course "Torag dies" would ALSO fit with that, but any given deity is more likely to survive than to die here.)

Actually, lemme scroll up and try to remember stuff... Erastil, I thiiink there'd been something like "he got caught because he was out playing at 'hunter', which he hadn't been for ages". CC, you can interpret it as "he shouldn't have tried to be something he wasn't (ie a god)". Irori, it was ABSOLUTELY him trying to ascend his nature that caused problems; Nethys wasn't trying to change HIMSELF but rather the stuff around him. Asmodeus... it wasn't HIM doing anything, but the whole prophecy had a thesis of "don't wish for what's gone; even if it seems good in the moment, it might cause disaster later".
So like the overall theme in these prophecies is "if change happens, it'll be horrible", but there might also be a secondary theme of "gods shouldn't try to go back to what they no longer are, nor to neglect or reject what they currently are".

EDIT: And it seems like Squiggit also had much the same points as me, just phrased it better (and posted it earlier).


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Shelynite Songbird wrote:
Nintendogeek01 wrote:
I will be happy if Shelyn is not the one to die next week. I mean sure there are others I could be bummed about dying but... please don't be Shelyn...

Unliking and re-liking this just so I can like it twice. Shelyn was the first love/beauty deity I ever saw in a major setting who wasn't overtly sexualized and who was unequivocally pro-queerness and beauty outside of accepted standards.

I will be ever so sad if we lose her

EDIT: Aaaaaa how did I forget to thank the immensely talented author for the last 10 weeks of suspense?! These stories were fantastic; no matter what happens, you've created some engaging and satisfying fiction, so thank you so much! <3

All of this. I really, REALLY hope it's not her because she represents something so important to a lot of us, and something important in general, especially with how things are in the real world these days.

(And yeah, the writing on these was awesome. It's been a ride!)


Jan Caltrop wrote:

A thought that just occurred to me: with a potential theme of "gods changing or not changing", I'd expect there to be some shuffling of domains amongst the surviving deities, in the aftermath. This would fulfil "changes to the Prismatic Ray", without necessarily someone dying or leaving or joining.

It'd also fit with "people might want to worship a pantheon of Torag's family, without Torag included", if Torag sufficiently changes so that he no longer fits the 'theme'. (Of course "Torag dies" would ALSO fit with that, but any given deity is more likely to survive than to die here.)

Actually, lemme scroll up and try to remember stuff... Erastil, I thiiink there'd been something like "he got caught because he was out playing at 'hunter', which he hadn't been for ages". CC, you can interpret it as "he shouldn't have tried to be something he wasn't (ie a god)". Irori, it was ABSOLUTELY him trying to ascend his nature that caused problems; Nethys wasn't trying to change HIMSELF but rather the stuff around him. Asmodeus... it wasn't HIM doing anything, but the whole prophecy had a thesis of "don't wish for what's gone; even if it seems good in the moment, it might cause disaster later".
So like the overall theme in these prophecies is "if change happens, it'll be horrible", but there might also be a secondary theme of "gods shouldn't try to go back to what they no longer are, nor to neglect or reject what they currently are".

EDIT: And it seems like Squiggit also had much the same points as me, just phrased it better (and posted it earlier).

Valid question here.

What even is the prismatic ray about, thematically? Is it defined by those three goddesses and their relationship? Destroying evil? Given there's a limited amount written about it, it's always been a little vague to me what it means and therefore what "changing" it would actually entail.

Does it mean them hooking up with someone else? Someone in the pantheon getting a new job? A copy-paste edit to swap "destroy evil" with "destroy unholy"?


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Hmmm
Ya know..I don't like the idea of Arazni killing Iomedae, as I've seen some people suggest... But it could be poetic and I think fitting in character if let's say Iomoedae becomes corrupted In someway( let's say by Lamashtus hand if we want to take her absence as something signifigant) and Arazni takes her out so she didnt have to go through what shes been through.

I don't think that's gonna be what happens. But I think that could be a interesting angle.


BookBird wrote:

A very cool prophecy to cap it off! I never quite settled on whether it was possible they'd be willing to kill Rovagug, but I suppose this settles that. But it's an interesting future this offers; he can be killed, he can be beaten. Even if doing so would be catastrophic for the Cage he inhabits.

A few of the gods haven't been mentioned at all in the prophecies thus far. Gozreh, Lamashtu and I think Calistria have so far been unmentioned. Though I don't think this has any bearing on anything. No mentions of Dark Tapestry stuff here either, which is what I was thinking based on the previous prophecy. Unless you count Rovagug himself as lovecraftian enough. Anyway, is it too insane of a theory that some of the non-core deities mentioned here might be in danger in War of Immortals? Apsu, Hanspur, Grandmother Spider, Hei Feng, Thamir. Though I seriously doubt they'd kill Hei Feng only a few months after the Tian Xia World Guide comes out, and even more so Grandmother Spider.

...And the prophecies end with my two favourite core 20 gods on the chopping block. John Paizo, I will pay you two whole dollarydoos if you kill literally anyone except Lamashtu. It can be all nine of the rest, I'm willing to do that. Now let's keep this hush-hush.

I concur. I don't want to see Lamashtu to die. I am also wondering about the fate of Venkelvore; both in terms of war of the immortals and the remaster.


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Oh THAT'S an idea I don't think I'd seen before, that the "death" might be a mercy kill....
Actually. That opens up a bunch of lines of thought for me, of "what if the death isn't due to direct and intentional enemy action". "Friendly fire" is a possibility, and -- *&)(&*( I JUST HAD A THOUGHT, Torag's trying to attack someone else but accidentally kills an allied god, and THAT's why people would want a pantheon WITHOUT him in it. DAMN but that would be an interesting idea.

Aside from that concept, and staying away from mundane deaths which wouldn't necessarily be fitting for a big event... "heroic sacrifice" doesn't just mean "charging in to kill the bad guy", it can also be "being the bait in the trap", or "taking an attack you could have dodged, so it won't hit the person behind you", or "giving your antidote to someone else instead", or "staying in an actively harmful location so you can do the important thing".


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I gotta say, Rovagug being marked safe really lowered my expectations for War of the Immortals.

With him alive, can it ever really be a war of the immortals? Rovagug's death feels like a requirement for a war between gods to happen (this prophecy also hammers that point home too) and since he's safe, all I can really forsee is a cold war of the immortals at best and that doesn't seem nearly as fun or enticing.

Rovagug's death also would of put the end times into question, which would really put an exciting spin on things as it could make this event feel like the potential end times. Instead, it doesn't feel like much if anything will change regardless of who dies now.

I'm sure there's still an interesting story to be had here but idk if it's going to scratch that itch the announcement of this event gave me.

We'll just wait and see.

Grand Lodge

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Vee8 wrote:

I gotta say, Rovagug being marked safe really lowered my expectations for War of the Immortals.

With him alive, can it ever really be a war of the immortals?

What if the war sparks over the key being lost?


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Then there's also the idea someone had mentioned, that it's not so much a war BETWEEN the gods, as between 'the gods' and 'Something Else'.


Squiggit wrote:

I still feel like 'failure' or a god losing sight of their purpose is a big part of their

Erastil is out-hunted. His followers then fail to track down the beast that killed him.

Cayden loses his confidence, then is betrayed by his own friends and followers.

Pharasma, the god most tied to prophecy, crumbles under it and notably her systems and psychopomps are basically useless in maintaining any order without her.

Asmodeus' entire system is brought down and repudiated by his death.

Zon-Kuthon falls, but even beyond that we then see Dou-bral abandon his station and Shelyn destroy artistic creativity in the aftermath.

Even Urgathoa, who sort of 'wins' I think is notable in that she does more to further the cause of spreading undeath and upending Pharasma's order by dying than she ever did by unliving. Doubly ironic given that Urgathoa's existence is sort of an act of defiance against that unmaking. Urgathoa's assassin also essentially fails here, in that undeath runs rampant because of it.

... Even in this story: Obviously, the gods somewhat fail to protect Golarion, but Rovagug here fails utterly at being a reality-ending threat. The battle is described as intense, but the being who was supposed to devour all of reality failing to even destroy the single world his final battle takes place on is somewhat pathetic, don't you think?

etc.

One notable connection is also the idea of a god falling in part because they've stepped away from their original purpose.

Desna is specifically disparaged for turning her attention away from watching the stars. Erastil, likewise, stops being just a hunt god and becomes a god of family and community as well. Both of them fall in their respective prophecies perhaps in part because of the dilution of their domain.

We also see a similar theme of gods trying to step 'beyond' their station. Nethys tries to tamper with the fundamental laws of reality and dooms large parts of the world for it. Irori allows his selfish need for personal perfection...

So.

Which god has changed the most since Burnt Offerings? Have any of them had major character growth since then?

If it's any of the ten remaining, they are very high on the list to die.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Vee8 wrote:

I gotta say, Rovagug being marked safe really lowered my expectations for War of the Immortals.

With him alive, can it ever really be a war of the immortals?

What if the war sparks over the key being lost?

I don't think that would lead to war. Dramatic story hook sure but a war of the immortals? How can that happen with Rovagug still alive? It's brought up even in today's prophecy that such a thing won't happen on Golarion so long as he lives.

The fighting would have to take place elsewhere if at all.

Community and Social Media Specialist

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Vee8 wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Vee8 wrote:

I gotta say, Rovagug being marked safe really lowered my expectations for War of the Immortals.

With him alive, can it ever really be a war of the immortals?

What if the war sparks over the key being lost?

I don't think that would lead to war. Dramatic story hook sure but a war of the immortals? How can that happen with Rovagug still alive? It's brought up even in today's prophecy that such a thing won't happen on Golarion so long as he lives.

The fighting would have to take place elsewhere if at all.

You'll DEFINITELY want to catch the stream is what I'll say here.


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I adore how Nana Anadi has been pointed out as one of the "lesser" deities that come out unscathed. Spider Queen of Fate prevails!


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One other thought I had is that it might be worth looking at the exceptions to the commonalities.

One consistent theme is that the death of a god is a calamitous affair, the fallout can be disastrous even when an evil god bites it.

Except... Asmodeus.

By and large Hell is reformed at least somewhat successfully. Peoples lives are made better, bad contracts are amended, petitioners are given opportunities beyond simply being ground under infernal bureaucracy. There's a little bit in the end about discontent brewing, but nothing nearly as explicit as in the other stories.

Unlike Pharasma, Urgathoa, Nethys, or Desna, there's no fallout from his portfolio. Contracts don't suddenly stop working, law and order don't generally unravel. There are massive political changes in hell, but there seems to be almost no metaphysical consequences, even though that's a theme in many of these stories.

Unlike Urgathoa or Rovagug, there's no monkey's paw, no twisted downside to removing a great evil from the world.

I'm not sure what the implication is, but it seems very notable that our in-universe author wrote sometimes grotesque fanfiction about the horrible consequences for the death of the gods and then for Asmodeus' story presents his death as an almost unconditional win for literally everyone else.


Jonathan Morgantini wrote:
Vee8 wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Vee8 wrote:

I gotta say, Rovagug being marked safe really lowered my expectations for War of the Immortals.

With him alive, can it ever really be a war of the immortals?

What if the war sparks over the key being lost?

I don't think that would lead to war. Dramatic story hook sure but a war of the immortals? How can that happen with Rovagug still alive? It's brought up even in today's prophecy that such a thing won't happen on Golarion so long as he lives.

The fighting would have to take place elsewhere if at all.

You'll DEFINITELY want to catch the stream is what I'll say here.

I will.


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What if every prophecy is canon and concurrent?

See, in a different thread of fate, 10 of the Core died ignominiously and filled the surviving good gods with guilt and bitterness.

Over there, the world has no stars left, undead are rampant, gods regularly get eaten, and spawn of Rovagug roam over the post-apocalypse created by his death.

So the surviving 10 have travelled to an alternate timeline, our Golarion, to take over and start over.

And so it would be all Golarion gods united against 10 of their corrupted alternate timeline selves.

Squiggit wrote:

Except... Asmodeus.

Unlike Urgathoa or Rovagug, there's no monkey's paw, no twisted downside to removing a great evil from the world.

The new holder of the key is explicitly reckless in his ambitions, with a promise to unleash Rovagug if his reckless plan doesn't go his way. That seems to me like a decent monkey's paw.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Saedar wrote:
Interesting reference to the super-dangerous Rova-Spawn. Wonder if this is the same creature that hunted Erastil in his prophecy.

Multiple creatures, actually, according to the false prophecy.

I wonder if these are new ones we haven't heard about or ones we already know. Although I don't think Paizo can come up with a name more metal than "Volnagur the End-Singer", anyway. ^^

Well, then. One more week to see if Saranrae is going to be the one. :-/


Vee8 wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Vee8 wrote:

I gotta say, Rovagug being marked safe really lowered my expectations for War of the Immortals.

With him alive, can it ever really be a war of the immortals?

What if the war sparks over the key being lost?

I don't think that would lead to war. Dramatic story hook sure but a war of the immortals? How can that happen with Rovagug still alive? It's brought up even in today's prophecy that such a thing won't happen on Golarion so long as he lives.

The fighting would have to take place elsewhere if at all.

That's assuming both sides are equally afraid of Rovagug getting out, which may very well not be the case. Some Outer Gods, like Yog-Sothoth, are expressly described as being beyond or outside space and time, and have survived multiple iterations of the cosmos breaking down and being reborn. One hangy deity is fairly small potatos compared to that.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
pixierose wrote:

Hmmm

Ya know..I don't like the idea of Arazni killing Iomedae, as I've seen some people suggest... But it could be poetic and I think fitting in character if let's say Iomoedae becomes corrupted In someway( let's say by Lamashtus hand if we want to take her absence as something signifigant) and Arazni takes her out so she didnt have to go through what shes been through.

I don't think that's gonna be what happens. But I think that could be a interesting angle.

I was thinking about this today.

Whenever I think of Arazni killing Iomedae it makes me think of this song.

Arazni will ascend to fill the open slot from the god's death. She is involved somehow.

What if Sarenrae intercedes to stop Arazni from killing Iomedae and thus dies instead? The rest of the War of Immortals is Arazni's war of revenge on the gods for standing by and doing nothing to prevent suffering. Motivated by a sort of anger and revenge on Aroden for failing and dying, thus failing her. Iomedae represents Aroden. The player's job then is to bring Arazni to a halt and, hopefully, rehabilitate her.

This fulfills the hint about the Prismatic Ray and gives Sarenrae a poetic death, and develops Arazni.

Dark Archive

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And with that, the existential dread of the Grande Reveal looms that much closer like Groetus over the Boneyard xP

Wonderful writing for all of the prophecies, they've been quite the romp! I love that all of these could make excellent hooks for homebrew games, both in alternate versions of Golarion and different settings entirely ^_^

Will we be learning about what other gods outside of the Core 20 will be dying during the reveal, or is that more part of the "live event" portion of War of Immortals?

Asking for a friend who loves Brigh!
...It's me, I'm the friend xD


Squiggit wrote:
then for Asmodeus' story presents his death as an almost unconditional win for literally everyone else.

Well, Asmodeus is supposed to be one of the big bads of the entire setting. So every good being in reality should probably want him dead. The main reason that "directly opposing Asmodeus" is probably a bad idea is because he holds the key to Rovagug's containment.

But if Asmodeus were to wink out of existence without enacting a mutually assured destruction scenario by letting out the rough beast, then that would be a net win for literally everyone.

Scarab Sages

In a way, I hope it is Iomedae who buys the farm.

It would certainly leave a space for Iomedae Paladin demigods from some of the more involved Wrath of the Righteous games to step up and take her place.

A sort of Inheritor inheriting what the previous Inheritor inherited, if you will.

Good way to completely move on from Aroden, I think.

Horizon Hunters

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pixierose wrote:
One thing to Consider... Lasmashtu might not be mentioned because perhaps she *Penned* these false prophecies... I feel like it could be significant that she was left out completely but it doesn't have to be that shes the one that dies.

I always was a little suspicious of that beast from Erastil's prophecy and the references to nightmares. I agree with this stance...

I'll take it one step further. These were all abandoned plans. Lamashtu is the killer. This wouldn't be the first god she killed, and honestly, it'd be nice to have her have some proper villain behavior.


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Anorak wrote:
pixierose wrote:

Hmmm

Ya know..I don't like the idea of Arazni killing Iomedae, as I've seen some people suggest... But it could be poetic and I think fitting in character if let's say Iomoedae becomes corrupted In someway( let's say by Lamashtus hand if we want to take her absence as something signifigant) and Arazni takes her out so she didnt have to go through what shes been through.

I don't think that's gonna be what happens. But I think that could be a interesting angle.

I was thinking about this today.

Whenever I think of Arazni killing Iomedae it makes me think of this song.

Arazni will ascend to fill the open slot from the god's death. She is involved somehow.

What if Sarenrae intercedes to stop Arazni from killing Iomedae and thus dies instead? The rest of the War of Immortals is Arazni's war of revenge on the gods for standing by and doing nothing to prevent suffering. Motivated by a sort of anger and revenge on Aroden for failing and dying, thus failing her. Iomedae represents Aroden. The player's job then is to bring Arazni to a halt and, hopefully, rehabilitate her.

This fulfills the hint about the Prismatic Ray and gives Sarenrae a poetic death, and develops Arazni.

Arazni killing Sarenrae seems...unlikely.

I think Arazni is supposed to be likeable or at least not actively hated by the entire Pathfinder fanbase afterwards. Even if it was accidental (as if), even if Arazni apologized (not her style), repented (which I doubt), and did penance (never going to happen) I think at least 50% of players would hate her guts for murdering the iconic Pathfinder deity...

Especially if she then immediately ascended into the core 20 to take Sarenrae's place (no, not her literal place in terms of domains and stuff, but the open slot in the core 20). Icky implications on a million different levels.


LoreMonger13 wrote:

And with that, the existential dread of the Grande Reveal looms that much closer like Groetus over the Boneyard xP

Wonderful writing for all of the prophecies, they've been quite the romp! I love that all of these could make excellent hooks for homebrew games, both in alternate versions of Golarion and different settings entirely ^_^

Will we be learning about what other gods outside of the Core 20 will be dying during the reveal, or is that more part of the "live event" portion of War of Immortals?

Asking for a friend who loves Brigh!
...It's me, I'm the friend xD

I mean, I know it's been explicitly stated multiple times that Pathfinder isn't restricted to "things that wouldn't make Starfinder non-canon"... but the people on the Pathfinder side of things are at least AWARE of Starfinder, so they SHOULDN'T do something that would like, negate one of the core concepts of the setting (that being the Drift, and Triune which is composed in part of Brigh). Starfinder can better handle say Akiton getting blown up in Pathfinder times, than it can handle "the thing that led to FTL travel, no longer exists".

This isn't to say an Brigh is necessarily SAFE, because "didn't think through the implications" is an unfortunately common part of being human, but like, she and Cassandalee would be the most likely to have someone go "wait maybe you shouldn't do that", out of all the deities; and the least likely for there to be a "no actually it's okay because X" response.


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Gnollvalue wrote:
pixierose wrote:
One thing to Consider... Lasmashtu might not be mentioned because perhaps she *Penned* these false prophecies... I feel like it could be significant that she was left out completely but it doesn't have to be that shes the one that dies.

I always was a little suspicious of that beast from Erastil's prophecy and the references to nightmares. I agree with this stance...

I'll take it one step further. These were all abandoned plans. Lamashtu is the killer. This wouldn't be the first god she killed, and honestly, it'd be nice to have her have some proper villain behavior.

Interesting concept of Lamashtu going into a more feral mode; I love it. Not to mention the idea of her devouring a whole god

Grand Archive

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Jan Caltrop wrote:
LoreMonger13 wrote:

And with that, the existential dread of the Grande Reveal looms that much closer like Groetus over the Boneyard xP

Wonderful writing for all of the prophecies, they've been quite the romp! I love that all of these could make excellent hooks for homebrew games, both in alternate versions of Golarion and different settings entirely ^_^

Will we be learning about what other gods outside of the Core 20 will be dying during the reveal, or is that more part of the "live event" portion of War of Immortals?

Asking for a friend who loves Brigh!
...It's me, I'm the friend xD

I mean, I know it's been explicitly stated multiple times that Pathfinder isn't restricted to "things that wouldn't make Starfinder non-canon"... but the people on the Pathfinder side of things are at least AWARE of Starfinder, so they SHOULDN'T do something that would like, negate one of the core concepts of the setting (that being the Drift, and Triune which is composed in part of Brigh). Starfinder can better handle say Akiton getting blown up in Pathfinder times, than it can handle "the thing that led to FTL travel, no longer exists".

This isn't to say an Brigh is necessarily SAFE, because "didn't think through the implications" is an unfortunately common part of being human, but like, she and Cassandalee would be the most likely to have someone go "wait maybe you shouldn't do that", out of all the deities; and the least likely for there to be a "no actually it's okay because X" response.

Brigh dying wouldn't cause ANY repercution on Starfinder. Nothing they can do in Pathfinder will ever have any repercution on Starfinder. Simply because they created the "GAP", that they will NEVER define, cause it's a plot device. ANYTHING that need to be done and/or happen to fix inconsistencies between Pathfinder and Starfinder, is done and happens during the GAP. And yes, it includes a god coming back, or another one taking the name and domains of a missing one.

The GAP is there to fill... any "gap" in lore. xD


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I remain skeptical that Lamashtu's E&A just got revised for the Remaster just in time to die, but I suppose anything's possible! My two bets from the beginning - Gorum and Iomedae - are still in the air, so I'm excited.

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