The Godsrain Prophecies Part Six

Wednesday, March 13, 2024

As I continue reading through the Godsrain “prophecies,” I have begun to develop a troubling new theory about their origin. I will admit up front that this idea may seem more in line with one of those Another Absalom tales of spies and skullduggery than a scholarly review (though I have always believed that those tales should be studied for their ability to keep the reader’s attention, something we researchers often do not do as successfully as we would like!), but I’ve noticed that several of the prophecies seem to strike at the core of what many think about the divine. This is not to say that gods cannot die, or falter, or fail in some way, but the more I read these documents, the more I can imagine negative outcomes that I might once have dismissed as distant possibilities. What if this is deliberate?

Perhaps the author of these works is no prophet at all, but someone who seeks to weaken what we understand of divinity. I am not certain who or what would seek that as an outcome, but any entity that benefits from faltering faith is one that cannot have the best interests of Golarion at heart. Still, if I am being candid, the thought of some mysterious villain appeals to me more than it probably should. Perhaps I simply wish to find a reason for these prophecies outside of any potential truth I might find in their pages. Or perhaps I have stumbled onto a workable theory. I will note the thought, but only as one of many I might bring to my Lady. False comfort can too often be found within visions of conspiracy.

–Yivali, Apprentice Researcher for the Lady of Graves




The Death of Nethys

Mind. Matter. Spirit. Life. Four essences. Four building blocks. Four cornerstones whose intersections shape the way that magic works. And in that four, two pairs that are too different to be joined together. Matter never blends with Spirit; Mind and Life remain apart. Nethys knows the truth of this, but never quite believes it fully. (Is he not the proof that there is power in duality?)

As the centuries progress, he keeps returning to this quandary, tells himself that he alone can meld the two opposing pairs. He can be the font of knowledge. He can give the world new magic. He can take the contradictions, put them through a transformation. He can start two new traditions. Mind and Body. Heart and Soul.

Does he succeed? Perhaps he does. Perhaps he stands awash with pride, his fingers trembling at the feeling, ready to share something of the magic he has wrought. But if he feels triumphant, it is only for a moment—a breath of jubilation as he soaks himself in magic, followed by a cry of horror as his body falls apart. Nethys, by sheer will and power, holds himself together briefly, fractures crawling down his arms, breaking him to pieces like a chunk of splintered glass. He remains alive just long enough to see the power of his folly, spreading from his fingers to the very building blocks of magic, tearing them asunder as his body turns to ash.

In an instant, magic changes—bends and rips and stretches thin, settling like a shredded cloth pulled tight across the world. Where it is torn, all magic ceases. Long-held items lose their power. Spells are nothing more than words. Spellcasters within these hollows lose all tether to their magic, even if they only cross the boundary in the aftermath. Some regain their skills with time, but others never quite recover, every magic word they utter turned to dust between their lips. Some don’t even make it that far, dying when the magic ends, falling from the skies above, losing shields that keep them safe, gulping down a healing potion turned to flavored water.

At first, the new uncertainty inspires mass devotion, but there is little solace from the other gods. Pharasma asks for a report. Irori swears to make it right. Their followers still cannot cast a single spell within the hollows. And those who lose the taste for magic, prayers dying in their mouth? They do not seem to gain a thing from all their dedication.

For those who never cared for magic, hollows are a place of refuge, leveling the playing field in favor of the fist and sword. Many flock who follow Nethys, loyal to his knowledge still, believing this to be some test that leads them to a new reward.

Many on Golarion relocate from their hollowed homes, fearing what it means to lose the magic in their lives. But travel is no easy thing, not even with the scout and map and herbal kits (now free of magical augmentations) that have become requirements for any trip outside. Rumors abound of hidden dangers scattered through the Great Beyond: places where the magic varies, strong one day and weak the next, turning one night’s cantrip to the morning’s deadly strike; villages consumed by all the magic stolen from the world, drowning in a power they have no way to unmake.

An array of 20 portraits depicting the gods of the Pathfinder setting. Asmodeus, Cayden Cailean, Erastil, Nethys, Pharasma, and Urgathoa’s portraits have been marked “safe.”

Magic is so fundamental to our reality that the thought of its absence or unreliability on a multiplanar scale is nearly as unfathomable as the concept of Nethys’s own ambition being magic’s undoing!


Magic has never been among my preferred subjects to study, but I now wish I’d learned more of it! It would help me to properly evaluate what, if anything, within this prophecy is truly feasible. Could one death (even the death of a god) create this level of chaos within such a fundamental part of life? This prophecy seems to indicate that magic is forever changed by Nethys’s actions, but even a disaster of the magnitude described seems unlikely to change fundamental principles of magic (a statement I would be much more convinced of were I sure that I fully understood them). While I doubt that this prophecy would come true, I am now curious if there are any projects that Nethys has undertaken that might lead to his attempting something on this scale. Perhaps I judged too quickly, and these are less dastardly plot than desperate warning? I need more information to be sure.





About the Author

Erin Roberts has been thrilled to be able to contribute a few small threads to the fabric of Golarion in the pages of books like Lost Omens Firebrands, Lost Omens Highhelm, and Lost Omens Travel Guide. In addition to her work for Paizo, she freelances across the TTRPG world (and was selected as a Diana Jones Award Emerging Designer Program Winner in 2023), has had fiction published in magazines including Asimov’s, Clarkesworld, and The Dark, and talks about writing every week on the Writing Excuses podcast. Catch up with her latest at linktr.ee/erinroberts.

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: The Godsrain Prophecies Pathfinder Pathfinder Remaster Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Web Fiction
1 to 50 of 119 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

10 people marked this as a favorite.

Is there no greater undoing, than a mage's hubris?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm not going to guess which core deity is going to die in the Godswar but instead which ones are going to be held off until the livestream:

- Iomedae
- Shelyn
- Sarenrae
- Desna
- Gorum
- Irori
- Calistria
- Rovagug
- Lamashtu
- Zon-Kuthon


15 people marked this as a favorite.

Well, it coincided with the archives remaster. Whoever said that, props to you. So... if Nethys dies, there's about a ton more Alkenstars out there? Sounds about right. GUNS FOR EVERYONE.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have to say, they are keeping things tense when it comes to guessing correct god :O


Wow...I knew Nethys was strong but this is way more than I expected.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

It's worth noting that Nethys is far from the only god of magic around. This is another case of consequences that seem far more catastrophic than makes sense (see also Urgathoa).

I suppose it also flies in the face of it being possible to reproduce the effects of working with Spirit via traditions that do not, and such. Are the essences truly so different if a wizard can learn to cast something like Divine Wrath with the opposite of the proper essences?


6 people marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, I'm with Yivali. Magic predates Nethys, he just understood it better than anybody before him. It's unlikely though, that he could *break* Magic in such a way that it would never recover. Could he break it temporarily? Sure, that already happened at least once (after Earthfall.)

Someone will successfully combine mind and body, and heart and soul even if it's not Nethys. After all, if we can describe a thing can magic not make it so?

Paizo Employee Organized Play Coordinator

31 people marked this as a favorite.

More like Deathys amirite


10 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Lmao

"What about the other two traditions implied by how essences work?"

"THEY WOULD LITERALLY UNMAKE MAGIC"

This one might be my favorite so far honestly, as it links into the fundamental science of the magic system.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Now this is an interesting theory by the in game author of the scholarly work on the Godrain prophesies.
To say these may not be prophesy at all but works intended to weaken what we understand of divinities sounds much more compelling a story to tell. Especially if by doing so the author is exposing a different truth by telling a lie.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Alex Speidel wrote:
More like Deathys amirite

lol


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Meanwhile, everyone in Smokeside continues on with their daily life. Now my bets are on one of the Prismatic Ray or ZK, as much as I hate the Prismatic Ray being split apart.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Magic predates Nethys, he just understood it better than anybody before him. It's unlikely though, that he could *break* Magic in such a way that it would never recover.

How's divination doing these days


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Ha! I kinda called this one. It's the lottery fallacy for sure, but who cares, I will revel in my undeserved victory.

I'm calling Zon-Kuthon next. For the bingo.

***

I'm a bit surprised the death of magic doesn't come with a description of magical creatures dying, or magical places collapsing. What happens in Geb when undeath-sustaining magic disappears? Do dragons burn themselves from the inside out, or find themselves unable to fly?

It's a cool story bit, but Nethys' prophesied death certainly leaves us with a lot more questions than answers.

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bluemagetim wrote:

Now this is an interesting theory by the in game author of the scholarly work on the Godrain prophesies.

To say these may not be prophesy at all but works intended to weaken what we understand of divinities sounds much more compelling a story to tell. Especially if by doing so the author is exposing a different truth by telling a lie.

Perhaps a Rahadoumi is behind their creation?

Liberty's Edge

RIP my theory and along with it any faith in the identity of the God being at all related to the pseudo ascension of demi-god super-humanoids globally (universally?).

My next guess would have to be Torag then since it's a pretty well-documented fact that JJ holds little love for Dwarves.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

I didn't think Nethys would be the one to die and am glad he didn't; that would have felt a little too like a certain other company's magic goddess dying during events

I am increasingly worried about Shelyn or Sarenrae getting it though :(


7 people marked this as a favorite.

A fitting reveal for the same day as the Archives of Nethys updates with the Remaster content.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Grand Unification Theory = bad

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Themetricsystem wrote:

My next guess would have to be Torag then since it's a pretty well-documented fact that JJ holds little love for Dwarves.

It is? Where?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Ooh I like how she's like "maybe we should study pulp novels for how to make our research papers more interesting".

DAMN it's Nethys, I was hoping he'd be the one to die; ah well. At least we get to see what happens....

Irori mention!

But hm. Yeah. I have to wonder, was this a deliberate reference to some Forgotten Realms edition-change stuff, or is that just like, the inevitable most obvious consequence of the magic deity dying?

I'm most intrigued though by the mention of Irori. Like, was Pharasma asking a report from him specifically? Why did he swear he'd make it right; is that the kind of thing he'd be linked to? It might just be that I don't know enough of his lore, but like, it stands out, him being there.

Also, people from Alkenstar: "lol. lmao, even."
...would this make the Mana Wastes actually MORE hospitable?

Okay, so from reading the comments... I think it's not so much that it's fundamentally IMPOSSIBLE to mix those elements to create two new traditions, more like... frick I don't remember enough chemistry to give a proper metaphor. Maybe it's like, he was trying to invent nuclear power stations but ended up with nuclear explosions instead?
Heck, it's possible that this wouldn't have been disastrous were it anyone OTHER than Nethys attempting the experiment; he just has so much magic on him that it adds a dangerous extra factor. Like not drying a container sufficiently of water, before adding in hot oil.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Jan Caltrop wrote:

Ooh I like how she's like "maybe we should study pulp novels for how to make our research papers more interesting".

DAMN it's Nethys, I was hoping he'd be the one to die; ah well. At least we get to see what happens....

Irori mention!

But hm. Yeah. I have to wonder, was this a deliberate reference to some Forgotten Realms edition-change stuff, or is that just like, the inevitable most obvious consequence of the magic deity dying?

I'm most intrigued though by the mention of Irori. Like, was Pharasma asking a report from him specifically? Why did he swear he'd make it right; is that the kind of thing he'd be linked to? It might just be that I don't know enough of his lore, but like, it stands out, him being there.

Also, people from Alkenstar: "lol. lmao, even."
...would this make the Mana Wastes actually MORE hospitable?

Okay, so from reading the comments... I think it's not so much that it's fundamentally IMPOSSIBLE to mix those elements to create two new traditions, more like... frick I don't remember enough chemistry to give a proper metaphor. Maybe it's like, he was trying to invent nuclear power stations but ended up with nuclear explosions instead?
Heck, it's possible that this wouldn't have been disastrous were it anyone OTHER than Nethys attempting the experiment; he just has so much magic on him that it adds a dangerous extra factor. Like not drying a container sufficiently of water, before adding in hot oil.

From what I can tell, this basically makes large swathes of Golarion just like Alkenstar, maybe even like the Mana Wastes. Depends on its affect on creatures. And yeah, especially the people from Ironside and Smokeside are completely unaffected by this.


Jan Caltrop wrote:

Okay, so from reading the comments... I think it's not so much that it's fundamentally IMPOSSIBLE to mix those elements to create two new traditions, more like... frick I don't remember enough chemistry to give a proper metaphor. Maybe it's like, he was trying to invent nuclear power stations but ended up with nuclear explosions instead?

Heck, it's possible that this wouldn't have been disastrous were it anyone OTHER than Nethys attempting the experiment; he just has so much magic on him that it adds a dangerous extra factor. Like not drying a container sufficiently of water, before adding in hot oil.

It's like if a singular mad scientist blew themself up trying to make "a new kind of nuke" and then suddenly all atomic energy just stopped working, possibly forever.

It's.... more than a little silly.

______________________

I do find it just a smidge disappointing that perhaps the one time it made perfect sense to mention Alchemy, the topic is still as neglected as ever. Alchemy creates wonders from the formulation of quintessences a lot like spells do, but in an explicitly non-magical way.

It's the oft forgotten universal (as in transferable / scientifically teachable) alternative to magic.

It's able to achieve and bottle supernatural effects without the "shortcuts" of using standard magic, but it presumably uses the same or similar interactions between the quintessences that magic does.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

"Matter never blends with Spirit; Mind and Life remain apart. ... He can take the contradictions, put them through a transformation. He can start two new traditions. Mind and Body. Heart and Soul."
It seems something is wrong here. Shouldn't it be "Soul and Body" and "Mind and Heart"?
Because "Mind and Body" is arcane and "Heart and Soul" is divine. Not very novel.


Just wondering something about Nethys. If we take the prophecy as fact that Nethys could in fact be able to affect magic on such a scale the question is how come? He is just a god that came from Golarion how come he was able to ascend to such a state where he has that kind of control over magic? Wouldn't there be other gods of magic far older than him?

Grand Lodge

Dubious Scholar wrote:
It's worth noting that Nethys is far from the only god of magic around. This is another case of consequences that seem far more catastrophic than makes sense (see also Urgathoa).

Just more weight to these being false prophecies, even if prophecy was still working.


20 people marked this as a favorite.
Alex Speidel wrote:
More like Deathys amirite

More like Nethysn't


1 person marked this as a favorite.
VerBeeker wrote:
Is there no greater undoing, than a mage's hubris?

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to explode."

Also, aren't heart and soul divine, and mind and body arcane? Heart and mind, plus body and soul would be the new traditions, no?


Garrett Guillotte wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Magic predates Nethys, he just understood it better than anybody before him. It's unlikely though, that he could *break* Magic in such a way that it would never recover.
How's divination doing these days

"What's divination?" :P

The non-snarky answer though is that it's more likely neither prophecy nor divination were destroyed by Aroden's death. Rather, when the Seal vanished, it broke fate, and as a knock-on effect, a hundred different cataclysms happened throughout the world including the collapse of Lung Wa, the Eye of Abendego, and the Worldwound. In Avistan, these events are associated with Aroden's death because he was supposed to show up that day and didn't.

I suppose it's fair enough that technically we don't have a factually committed answer which broke first, the chicken or the egg god or the future, but if you want an answer "Why is it impossible that Nethys could break the fabric of reality when a younger god already has?" it's most likely because that other god isn't thought by the writer to be the actual cause.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I've always been of the opinion that magic is as much a part of the world as gravity. Its absence is fundamentally impossible, at least without changing what the very universe looks like. If you take away matter, spirit, life, and mind, then what remains?

Magic is not "supernatural." It is natural. To be without it, and yet still exist at all, THAT is unnatural in the extreme, implying that you are made of something that the entire universe around you isn't.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I wonder if its more like the understanding everyone had about prophesy even the understanding that the gods had was never actually right.
Arodens death was just the first of events that revealed the true vulnerability/changeable nature of existence and the gods themselves are struggling with that reality, they themselves never even suspected could be true.


A few things:

This seems to be at least partly a pot shot directed towards people who feel like there are holes in the essence system that need to be filled. A pseudo canonical statement that Matter and Spirit and Life and Mind are metaphysically incompatible. Which was true already, but is difficult for people who like "filling in gaps" to wrap their head around.

(Really, the traditions are still defined primarily by source/origin; the essences explain their limitations and what makes each tradition distinct, but there's still no way to cast divine magic without being an outsider, connected to them, or deriving it from something external like a deity or divine domains themselves.)

The idea that the death of a single god of magic, from a single planet, could have repercussions on the same scale as the death of She Who Must Be Named from that setting the author of Kingmaker made is completely ridiculous, simply because he is not alone in the universe. Eloritu would probably smite whoever wrote the Godsrain Prophecies for suggesting that.

(Yes, he exists. There are literally canon crossovers between Pathfinder and Starfinder. The latter is an alternate timeline that splits after Eloritu is born.)

The theory Yivali is raising that these "prophecies" are mindgames by a villain who may actually be behind the god murder is one I've had since like, the third one. They can be awfully dense, but then again, kind of comes with the job description.

I will defend the Urgathoa Godsrain Prophecy, simply because Urgathoa really is a fundamental part of undead cosmologically (she's the whole reason why they're divine and not occult or something) and she's like the one evil deity I wouldn't give PCs a plot device to take down outside Rovagug if it did more for the story I wanted to tell than anything else, simply because it is so weird to have divine undead without her. It's really impossible for me to take this one about Nethys at face value simply it's because it's such an extreme result for a deity that is small pickings on the kind of scale his death is spiraling consequences of.


10 people marked this as a favorite.
zezia wrote:
Just wondering something about Nethys. If we take the prophecy as fact that Nethys could in fact be able to affect magic on such a scale the question is how come? He is just a god that came from Golarion how come he was able to ascend to such a state where he has that kind of control over magic? Wouldn't there be other gods of magic far older than him?

Now to contrast the last post, if I were to speculate how would one god manage to affect the fabric of reality on such a level despite seeming to originate from one random planet (even one as important as Golarion) and there presumably being far older deities of magic in the universe, my theory is thus: When Nethys ascended by casting the perfect spell, he didn't just become a god, he merged the fabric of his being with the background magic radiation of the cosmos. This is how he gained his omniscience and his dualistic nature, his mind is directly attached to magic itself and its forces a part of his body. It's not that he's so powerful that he can control all magic everywhere, it's that he wove himself into it so when his existence unravels, it echoes through the rest of the tapestry.

Not describing magic as a Weave is harder than advertised

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I like how it shows that all the other deities are unable to answer prayers in vast areas once Nethys is gone.

Indeed, these tales do show how mortals should not rely too much on deities.

I wonder if Yvali's quest for answers will be what ends up in the death of the Core20 deity. As in all proper prophecies, or how Kung-fu Panda's Master Shifu's fear-inspired action resulted in precisely what he feared : the release of Tai lung.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
The Raven Black wrote:

I like how it shows that all the other deities are unable to answer prayers in vast areas once Nethys is gone.

Indeed, these tales do show how mortals should not rely too much on deities.

I wonder if Yvali's quest for answers will be what ends up in the death of the Core20 deity. As in all proper prophecies, or how Kung-fu Panda's Master Shifu's fear-inspired action resulted in precisely what he feared : the release of Tai lung.

Like I said before, the whole world just gets the Alkenstar treatment. Divine Magic fails there too. I want to see what people do with this, but it might be because I'm running an Outlaws Backport as well.

Scarab Sages

18 people marked this as a favorite.

Interesting.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Trip.H wrote:
Jan Caltrop wrote:

Okay, so from reading the comments... I think it's not so much that it's fundamentally IMPOSSIBLE to mix those elements to create two new traditions, more like... frick I don't remember enough chemistry to give a proper metaphor. Maybe it's like, he was trying to invent nuclear power stations but ended up with nuclear explosions instead?

Heck, it's possible that this wouldn't have been disastrous were it anyone OTHER than Nethys attempting the experiment; he just has so much magic on him that it adds a dangerous extra factor. Like not drying a container sufficiently of water, before adding in hot oil.

It's like if a singular mad scientist blew themself up trying to make "a new kind of nuke" and then suddenly all atomic energy just stopped working, possibly forever.

It's.... more than a little silly.

If we're continuing the metaphor (that i will freely admit is getting a bit forced at this point) it reads to me as more similar to someone trying to make a new sort of nuke and failing to control it, and the subsequent explosion left pockets of fallout that had dramatic, but local, effects.

It's not saying that Nethys' actions destroyed magic forever, it's saying that there are bubbles where his actions warped magic sufficiently that it is changed - damaged to the point where it's inaccessible, empowered to the point where it's dangerous, or inconsistent to the point where it's difficult to rely upon. If it were setting-wide, I'd agree it's a bit much - but for a person with a greater understanding of magic than anyone else, I don't think it's completely implausible as it's being presented here.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

...actually, does it say anywhere that magic is borked EVERYWHERE and FOREVER? On a planetary scale and for the foreseeable future, that would make sense; I can buy it as being the entire solar system; but "everywhere" is Very Huge and "forever" is Very Long.

Because like, Nethys is the god of magic ON GOLARION. If someone explodes then of course you'd expect damage in the area they were when they exploded, but not like, everything they've ever touched (unless it was a sufficiently large explosion).

New thought I just had: maybe it didn't so much as "bork magic" but like, shuffle the keybinds and DDOS certain regions? In which case, some bits would recover over time, and some bits people would learn the new way of doing it.

Liberty's Edge

Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:
zezia wrote:
Just wondering something about Nethys. If we take the prophecy as fact that Nethys could in fact be able to affect magic on such a scale the question is how come? He is just a god that came from Golarion how come he was able to ascend to such a state where he has that kind of control over magic? Wouldn't there be other gods of magic far older than him?

Now to contrast the last post, if I were to speculate how would one god manage to affect the fabric of reality on such a level despite seeming to originate from one random planet (even one as important as Golarion) and there presumably being far older deities of magic in the universe, my theory is thus: When Nethys ascended by casting the perfect spell, he didn't just become a god, he merged the fabric of his being with the background magic radiation of the cosmos. This is how he gained his omniscience and his dualistic nature, his mind is directly attached to magic itself and its forces a part of his body. It's not that he's so powerful that he can control all magic everywhere, it's that he wove himself into it so when his existence unravels, it echoes through the rest of the tapestry.

Not describing magic as a Weave is harder than advertised

Just a note that it is not Nethys' death that affects magic everywhere. It is the result of his tampering with the fundamental divisions of magic, which also killed him.

BTW will we still have only a single way of magic in SF2 like we had in SF1 ?


Nethys is without a doubt my favorite deity. Happy he's a survivor.

Liberty's Edge

Jan Caltrop wrote:

...actually, does it say anywhere that magic is borked EVERYWHERE and FOREVER? On a planetary scale and for the foreseeable future, that would make sense; I can buy it as being the entire solar system; but "everywhere" is Very Huge and "forever" is Very Long.

Because like, Nethys is the god of magic ON GOLARION. If someone explodes then of course you'd expect damage in the area they were when they exploded, but not like, everything they've ever touched (unless it was a sufficiently large explosion).

New thought I just had: maybe it didn't so much as "bork magic" but like, shuffle the keybinds and DDOS certain regions? In which case, some bits would recover over time, and some bits people would learn the new way of doing it.

I do not know about forever, but it is explicitly stated that the phenomena are rumored to happen all over the Great Beyond.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Raven Black wrote:
Jan Caltrop wrote:

...actually, does it say anywhere that magic is borked EVERYWHERE and FOREVER? On a planetary scale and for the foreseeable future, that would make sense; I can buy it as being the entire solar system; but "everywhere" is Very Huge and "forever" is Very Long.

Because like, Nethys is the god of magic ON GOLARION. If someone explodes then of course you'd expect damage in the area they were when they exploded, but not like, everything they've ever touched (unless it was a sufficiently large explosion).

New thought I just had: maybe it didn't so much as "bork magic" but like, shuffle the keybinds and DDOS certain regions? In which case, some bits would recover over time, and some bits people would learn the new way of doing it.

I do not know about forever, but it is explicitly stated that the phenomena are rumored to happen all over the Great Beyond.

Ah. In my defence, I'm on a good deal of antibiotics at the moment (life advice, don't pick at a bug bite, and if you absolutely must, then go to a doctor as soon as someone says "huh that looks bad, you should see a doctor").

Grand Lodge

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

All of a sudden I want Lamashtu to pull off the jackal head and go "SURPRISE! I'M LADY GAGA!" (sorry, the "Mother of Monsters" parallelism was just too obvious to not make a joke about)

Grand Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Arcaian wrote:
Trip.H wrote:
Jan Caltrop wrote:

Okay, so from reading the comments... I think it's not so much that it's fundamentally IMPOSSIBLE to mix those elements to create two new traditions, more like... frick I don't remember enough chemistry to give a proper metaphor. Maybe it's like, he was trying to invent nuclear power stations but ended up with nuclear explosions instead?

Heck, it's possible that this wouldn't have been disastrous were it anyone OTHER than Nethys attempting the experiment; he just has so much magic on him that it adds a dangerous extra factor. Like not drying a container sufficiently of water, before adding in hot oil.

It's like if a singular mad scientist blew themself up trying to make "a new kind of nuke" and then suddenly all atomic energy just stopped working, possibly forever.

It's.... more than a little silly.

If we're continuing the metaphor (that i will freely admit is getting a bit forced at this point) it reads to me as more similar to someone trying to make a new sort of nuke and failing to control it, and the subsequent explosion left pockets of fallout that had dramatic, but local, effects.

It's not saying that Nethys' actions destroyed magic forever, it's saying that there are bubbles where his actions warped magic sufficiently that it is changed - damaged to the point where it's inaccessible, empowered to the point where it's dangerous, or inconsistent to the point where it's difficult to rely upon. If it were setting-wide, I'd agree it's a bit much - but for a person with a greater understanding of magic than anyone else, I don't think it's completely implausible as it's being presented here.

And actually, we can double down on the analogy, because of all the atomic bomb testings and dropping we did during (and before) the cold war, we irridiated the whole planet's surface, and we need to skavenge old metals from the bottom of the sea to create tools to measure radiations. So yeah. It doesn't sound crazy to me that a magical explosion that would kill a god could "infect" most of reality with magical fallouts. Even more so if even just mortal magic can do it in one specific regions. Looks at the Mana Waste.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Ah heck yes!
Guessing Archive of Nethys update lining up with Nethys prophecy is gonna pay off!
Two of my new doctrines in Godsrain Contingencies assume little to no spellcasting! The overlap is real.
Now I can have all sorts of fun with magical alternatives for everyone, not just our clerics.


Kittyburger wrote:

I'm not going to guess which core deity is going to die in the Godswar but instead which ones are going to be held off until the livestream:

- Iomedae
- Shelyn
- Sarenrae
- Desna
- Gorum
- Irori
- Calistria
- Rovagug
- Lamashtu
- Zon-Kuthon

Largely agree, but should point out that we do know one of the Prismatic Ray (Shelyn, Sarenrae and Desna) is going to get a prophecy done at some point.


CreepyShutIn wrote:

I've always been of the opinion that magic is as much a part of the world as gravity. Its absence is fundamentally impossible, at least without changing what the very universe looks like. If you take away matter, spirit, life, and mind, then what remains?

Magic is not "supernatural." It is natural. To be without it, and yet still exist at all, THAT is unnatural in the extreme, implying that you are made of something that the entire universe around you isn't.

I like the approach very much. I'd even say that any anti-magic and borked-magic areas in player-facing settings so much entangled in magic as Golarion are extremely bad idea, bad taste, not fun and must be actually forbidden. Yes, to hell with Alkenstar. Maybe even literally...

But, it still is very easy to imagine all these essences without magic. Like with gravity and electromagnetism. You are in the first and kind of exist because of the second. So what? Can you fly or shoot lasers from eyes? :)

Dark Archive

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Dubious Scholar wrote:

It's worth noting that Nethys is far from the only god of magic around. This is another case of consequences that seem far more catastrophic than makes sense (see also Urgathoa).

I suppose it also flies in the face of it being possible to reproduce the effects of working with Spirit via traditions that do not, and such. Are the essences truly so different if a wizard can learn to cast something like Divine Wrath with the opposite of the proper essences?

The way I read it is that magic didn't fail because he died, but his death in such an explosion from his failed experiment, created dead zones of magic. I'd say that is plausible.


Errenor wrote:
CreepyShutIn wrote:

I've always been of the opinion that magic is as much a part of the world as gravity. Its absence is fundamentally impossible, at least without changing what the very universe looks like. If you take away matter, spirit, life, and mind, then what remains?

Magic is not "supernatural." It is natural. To be without it, and yet still exist at all, THAT is unnatural in the extreme, implying that you are made of something that the entire universe around you isn't.

I like the approach very much. I'd even say that any anti-magic and borked-magic areas in player-facing settings so much entangled in magic as Golarion are extremely bad idea, bad taste, not fun and must be actually forbidden. Yes, to hell with Alkenstar. Maybe even literally...

But, it still is very easy to imagine all these essences without magic. Like with gravity and electromagnetism. You are in the first and kind of exist because of the second. So what? Can you fly or shoot lasers from eyes? :)

There's a reason the Alkenstar campaigns didn't require it. Anyways, EMFs exist so why not the magical equivalent.

1 to 50 of 119 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / General Discussion / Paizo Blog: The Godsrain Prophecies Part Six All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.