Witch, Witch, You’re a Remastered Witch

Depends on if you consider the undying part an effect granted by the patron as the archetype version says it doesn't get any effects granted by it (effects specifically, not just the unique ability).

I'm assuming that 'Patron' is another, separate class feature than 'Familiar' is - like it is pre-Remaster. And that the 'Patron' class feature will list off several things that it grants.

So when the Archetype says that you don't get any other benefits from your Patron than what it lists, that doesn't prevent you from getting all of the benefits of Familiar.

gesalt wrote:

Depends on if you consider the undying part an effect granted by the patron as the archetype version says it doesn't get any effects granted by it (effects specifically, not just the unique ability).

I'm assuming that 'Patron' is another, separate class feature than 'Familiar' is - like it is pre-Remaster. And that the 'Patron' class feature will list off several things that it grants.

So when the Archetype says that you don't get any other benefits from your Patron than what it lists, that doesn't prevent you from getting all of the benefits of Familiar.

That is my take on it as well. They are under separate headers.

Undying is a subheading of familiar. Patron is a separate feature, that provides some flavor description and then talks about picking a patron to get your tradition and initial bonuses.

Speaking of Patrons... officially ran out of hopium for the arcane witch. Inscribed's familiar bonus really is just "your familiar is distracting and can flank as if it had a reach of 5 feet" like g+~&&+n someone really thought that was comparable to being able to extend conditions forever or giving your frontliner free THP every round.

Discern Secrets also totally unchanged but that's less surprising.

Undying is a subheading of familiar. Patron is a separate feature, that provides some flavor description and then talks about picking a patron to get your tradition and initial bonuses.

Speaking of Patrons... officially ran out of hopium for the arcane witch. Inscribed's familiar bonus really is just "your familiar is distracting and can flank as if it had a reach of 5 feet" like g*$%++n someone really thought that was comparable to being able to extend conditions forever or giving your frontliner free THP every round.

Discern Secrets also totally unchanged but that's less surprising.

From what I've heard, Discern Secrets is the only Hex cantrip that still comes with the 1 minute immunity. It doesn't THAT much since there's usually a limited amount of knowledge checks you'd want to do in combat anyway, but it does make you even less flexible in triggering your already sub-par familiar ability.

I might just houserule this to give it at least 10 ft reach or something.

It also gives Seek actions. Which are useful to be given every round in some combat circumstances.

It will also give Sense Motive actions, but I have not yet found a use for those.

Undying is a subheading of familiar. Patron is a separate feature, that provides some flavor description and then talks about picking a patron to get your tradition and initial bonuses.

That ties things up rather nicely. Hooray for final sacrifice.

Undying is a subheading of familiar. Patron is a separate feature, that provides some flavor description and then talks about picking a patron to get your tradition and initial bonuses.

Speaking of Patrons... officially ran out of hopium for the arcane witch. Inscribed's familiar bonus really is just "your familiar is distracting and can flank as if it had a reach of 5 feet" like g$&@&&n someone really thought that was comparable to being able to extend conditions forever or giving your frontliner free THP every round.

Discern Secrets also totally unchanged but that's less surprising.

I find it funny that the tradition with no healing spells is the one that gets the familiar ability that puts the familiar in the most danger.

I think if there’s one adjustment I’d make to Witch’s Armaments, is to do something similar to Bard’s new Martial Performance - when you make a successful Strike you can then choose Sustain your hex as a free action.

You can’t access the feat until level 2 (unless you’re Human or GM-approved Mixed Human) anyway, so it’s competing against Cackle, Enhanced Familiar, Cauldron, and Basic Lesson which are all fantastic options (and better?) for a melee Witch.

I can't even find the rules for what happens when a standard familiar dies in the remaster.....

... Huh. Elemental Betrayal is interesting now. When you Cast this

Spell, choose air, earth, metal, fire, water, or wood. The target
gains weakness 2 to that trait.

I am not sure if this is intended, but I think metal or wood weapons might trigger this. I don't thiiiink a strike with a steal sword would have the metal trait, but the weakness rules say: "If you have a weakness to something that doesn’t normally deal damage, such as water, you take damage equal to the weakness value when touched or affected
by it.

I'm not sure if that would be busted when used for your allies... but it might be busted on an enemy in metal armor.

No, this came up with the kineticist which can get resistance/immunity to things with the metal/wood trait. Nothing gives a sword or club the trait of the material it is made of. Only magical or creature traits that are specified do. So these weaknesses will work when attacked by metal/wood creatures, metal/wood spells, and metal/wood kineticist impulses.

This isn't comparable to things like resistance or weakness that interact with silver/cold iron. Those say they react to the presence of the material, not a nonexistent "silver trait."

Captain Morgan wrote:

... Huh. Elemental Betrayal is interesting now. When you Cast this

Spell, choose air, earth, metal, fire, water, or wood. The target
gains weakness 2 to that trait.

I am not sure if this is intended, but I think metal or wood weapons might trigger this. I don't thiiiink a strike with a steal sword would have the metal trait, but the weakness rules say: "If you have a weakness to something that doesn’t normally deal damage, such as water, you take damage equal to the weakness value when touched or affected
by it.

I'm not sure if that would be busted when used for your allies... but it might be busted on an enemy in metal armor.

No, this came up with the kineticist which can get resistance/immunity to things with the metal/wood trait. Nothing gives a sword or club the trait of the material it is made of. Only magical or creature traits that are specified do. So these weaknesses will work when attacked by metal/wood creatures, metal/wood spells, and metal/wood kineticist impulses.

This isn't comparable to things like resistance or weakness that interact with silver/cold iron. Those say they react to the presence of the material, not a nonexistent "silver trait."

Got it. So Elemental Betrayal remains something you need your whole party to build around to be useful, as it was before. At least kineticist is a thing now.

I can't even find the rules for what happens when a standard familiar dies in the remaster.....

It’s not in the familiar rules? Premaster: “If your familiar dies, you can spend a week of downtime to replace it at no cost. You can have only one familiar at a time.”

John R. wrote:

I can't even find the rules for what happens when a standard familiar dies in the remaster.....

It’s not in the familiar rules? Premaster: “If your familiar dies, you can spend a week of downtime to replace it at no cost. You can have only one familiar at a time.”

I've gone and methodically searched for every instance of "Familiar" in Player Core and GM Core. The closest rule that I could find addressing something like this is the Special entry of the Pet feat (from which familiars are based): "You can gain a new pet by retraining this feat, releasing any previous pet you have."

Insofar as I can tell, it's either resurrection, or retraining for a week to release your dead familiar.

John R. wrote:

I can't even find the rules for what happens when a standard familiar dies in the remaster.....

It’s not in the familiar rules? Premaster: “If your familiar dies, you can spend a week of downtime to replace it at no cost. You can have only one familiar at a time.”

The animal companion rules have that line, but not the familiar ones.

Possibly an editing error.

Tunu40 wrote:

John R. wrote:

I can't even find the rules for what happens when a standard familiar dies in the remaster.....

It’s not in the familiar rules? Premaster: “If your familiar dies, you can spend a week of downtime to replace it at no cost. You can have only one familiar at a time.”

The animal companion rules have that line, but not the familiar ones.

Possibly an editing error.

Perhaps. I've added it to the Remaster Errata thread.

Someone made an interesting post on the subreddit. Familiars are considered companions and the rule about companions (meaning animal companions and familiars) mentions the 1 week.

So, likely, that’s the general rule that familiars fall under, with familiars being a specific type of companion.

Someone made an interesting post on the subreddit. Familiars are considered companions and the rule about companions (meaning animal companions and familiars) mentions the 1 week.

So, likely, that’s the general rule that familiars fall under, with familiars being a specific type of companion.

I assume that this is the correct intention, but I want to correct a misconception here.

There's a section for animal companions and familiars, and within that section there are subsections specifically for animal companions and familiars separately, the 'one week' rule only appears in the former category.

Again, the one week replacement is probably the intent, but as it is printed it's incorrect to say that this is a general rule that people are just missing.

Witch received some very nice improvements. Much better feats now. Some of the familiar abilities not so great for how you play, but quite a few seem pretty good.

The Resentment Witch is brutal. That familiar extension ability makes them maybe the best debuffer in the game. Evil Eye is better now too. Sickened is a better condition and harder to remove.

The Resentment Witch is brutal. That familiar extension ability makes them maybe the best debuffer in the game. Evil Eye is better now too. Sickened is a better condition and harder to remove.

Yeah, the Resentment patron alone has me thinking, "Hex Witch is back! Time to spam hexes and ignore all my spell slots!" Lol.

Back to the topic of the familiar gained from the Witch archetype, I did want to point out that the familiar granted is referred to only as a "familiar" and not a "witch familiar". This makes me believe that the familiar you gain is just a bog standard familiar without any special features unique to the witch. Additionally, the initial dedication states, "Your familiar gains the normal number of abilities for a familiar instead of those a witch familiar normally gets." This indicates to me that there is difference in base quality between a standard and witch familiar. Strictly based on wording, I don't think the familiar granted by the archetype has the undying ability.

However, RAI is another thing and considering you need your familiar to prepare your spells every day, having your familiar unavailable for an entire week can void this entire dedication (assuming you took it primarily for the spellcasting). If the developers' intent was to not give the Witch dedication's familiar the undying ability, I think they need to reassess.

Losing your whole archetype for a full week is simply tbtbt.

Losing your whole archetype for a full week is simply tbtbt.

Absolutely, if a dm told me at endgame I couldn't access 14 spell slots (which I invested heavy build resources into) for a week bc an enemy sneezed on my familiar, id tell them to take a hike. I'm of the same mind for animal companions; anything that represents large portions of someone's power budget shouldn't be inaccessible for long periods of table time. My table is always next days preparations for that kind of stuff. If I was at a table where my dm wouldn't budge I'd retire my character so I could roll something that wouldn't be gimped for the next 3-5 sessions

[...] Additionally, the initial dedication states, "Your familiar gains the normal number of abilities for a familiar instead of those a witch familiar normally gets." This indicates to me that there is difference in base quality between a standard and witch familiar. [...]

One just has to put the emphasis on different words to suggest a somewhat different intention of the sentence:

"Your familiar gains the normal number of abilities for a familiar instead of those a witch familiar normally gets."

(emphasis mine)

;-)

Besides that sort of "Exegesis", I endorse the practicality aspect mentioned by you and several others, too.

Deriven Firelion wrote:

The Resentment Witch is brutal. That familiar extension ability makes them maybe the best debuffer in the game. Evil Eye is better now too. Sickened is a better condition and harder to remove.

Yeah, the Resentment patron alone has me thinking, "Hex Witch is back! Time to spam hexes and ignore all my spell slots!" Lol.

Back to the topic of the familiar gained from the Witch archetype, I did want to point out that the familiar granted is referred to only as a "familiar" and not a "witch familiar". This makes me believe that the familiar you gain is just a bog standard familiar without any special features unique to the witch. Additionally, the initial dedication states, "Your familiar gains the normal number of abilities for a familiar instead of those a witch familiar normally gets." This indicates to me that there is difference in base quality between a standard and witch familiar. Strictly based on wording, I don't think the familiar granted by the archetype has the undying ability.

However, RAI is another thing and considering you need your familiar to prepare your spells every day, having your familiar unavailable for an entire week can void this entire dedication (assuming you took it primarily for the spellcasting). If the developers' intent was to not give the Witch dedication's familiar the undying ability, I think they need to reassess.

I read it the exact opposite way. Why mention what a witch familiar normally gets if your familiar is not a witch familiar ?

That's so "beautiful" about exegesis ;-): Some read a sentence as a explicit differentiation between different familiar types, putting emphasis that the feature one gets is just mentioned as "familiar". The others wonder why mentioning "normal" mechanics of witch familiars if the Dedication familiar had nothing to do with that...

Besides: I understand why these different readings exist. Actually find it pretty logical. IMHO, a bit more writing about familiars would really help (both for main-class as well as multiclass ones) - even if it's just an explicit "each group should discuss and decide how they want to have familiars in their game". In the latter case readers would know that familiar rules were deliberately vague and meant for individual interpretation of each group - and not just a particularly unfortunate part of the system.

My opinion: If people with deep rules knowledge and through years and thousands of messages still have such a stern level of disagreement that I notice at the whole familiar topic, I think such a topic would benefit from additional, official comments how it was originally intended. Or rather: How it's intended, now.

As said: Even if that comment was just a "We noticed that there are very different preferences how players want to have familiars, about their nature, what powers they should have or not etc. All playing styles are valid if you agree on them. So we didn't want to take a more explicit stance and rather leave it open to each group, how they handle it." I could understand.

Additionally, the initial dedication states, "Your familiar gains the normal number of abilities for a familiar instead of those a witch familiar normally gets." This indicates to me that there is difference in base quality between a standard and witch familiar. Strictly based on wording, I don't think the familiar granted by the archetype has the undying ability.

So while I think there's an argument to be made in general, one point of clarification is that undying isn't a familiar ability.

Undying isn't a familiar ability in the sense of one of the list of abilities that you can pick for your familiar to have for the day.

It is a familiar ability in the sense of being an ability granted as part of the Familiar class feature.

Not having the Witch Archetype Familiar have the Undying ability makes about as much sense as saying that the Summoner Archetype characters do explicitly get an Eidolon creature, and the Summon Eidolon Action, they explicitly don't get the Act Together action or any other Tandem action,...

and they implicitly don't get anything else in the Eidolon class feature such as Share Senses, Shared Hit Points, the Gear and your Eidolon rules, the Lost and Altered Actions rules, or the instructions that the Summoner and Eidolon should generally work together but if there is a conflict the Summoner gets first priority of using the actions.

Like I said, there's an argument to be made, but referencing the number of familiar abilities you get clearly isn't it.

Given that the pre-remaster Witch Archetype familiar didn't get the automatic daily resurrection, I'm inclined to assume that the remastered version works the same way unless there is new wording stating explicitly that they do get it.

John R. wrote:

Additionally, the initial dedication states, "Your familiar gains the normal number of abilities for a familiar instead of those a witch familiar normally gets." This indicates to me that there is difference in base quality between a standard and witch familiar. Strictly based on wording, I don't think the familiar granted by the archetype has the undying ability.

So while I think there's an argument to be made in general, one point of clarification is that undying isn't a familiar ability.

The point I was trying to make was primarily the distinction between "familar" and "witch familiar" but overall I think just about everyone is on the same page that even in the case that the familiar doesn't have undying by RAW, it's a terrible ruling and should be ignored.

Yup. All the logic, game balance arguments, comparisons to other class's archetype abilities, and any other such things all get left by left by the wayside due to one off-hand remark to a follow-up question on a random YouTube video.

It should only need to be clarified in the PFS rules. At your own table or a non-society table have a chat with the GM before taking witch archetype.

Given (if I have followed this thread properly) there is nothing in the mom-witch familiar rules in the remaster books about how long it takes your familiar to return if it dies and this is only covered in the witxh rules, I would say all familiars get undying witch or not.

To be honest class features that are easily removed for a whole week are bad design unless you are playimg some kind of slow burn hardcore narrative game... which is not at all how most of the pf2e rules are designed.

Witch's Armaments must be something introduced with Remastered -- I looked on Archives of Nethys to see if I had somehow missed it, but no results came up in the search.

Now here's a thought: Are Witch's Armaments good enough to be worth taking on a Magus, Martial, or Rogue that takes the Witch Archetype?

It's just living hair and eldtrich nails combined into one feat to save space and no not really

If you want to be a punch martial then just be an ancestry with an Unarmed attack.

Hell, I played as a Targe with one. Freed up my hand for a staff

Witch's Armaments must be something introduced with Remastered -- I looked on Archives of Nethys to see if I had somehow missed it, but no results came up in the search.

Now here's a thought: Are Witch's Armaments good enough to be worth taking on a Magus, Martial, or Rogue that takes the Witch Archetype?

If it really is just Eldritch Nails and Living Hair combined, then no. For a 4th level feat, gaining two slightly improved simple weapons is a complete waste of your time.

If you absolutely want decent unarmed attacks, there are plenty of equal options available via ancestries, as Gobhaggo said. Magus also has Arcane Fists, which is just a straight upgrade.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Witch's Armaments must be something introduced with Remastered -- I looked on Archives of Nethys to see if I had somehow missed it, but no results came up in the search.

Now here's a thought: Are Witch's Armaments good enough to be worth taking on a Magus, Martial, or Rogue that takes the Witch Archetype?

If it really is just Eldritch Nails and Living Hair combined, then no. For a 4th level feat, gaining two slightly improved simple weapons is a complete waste of your time.

If you absolutely want decent unarmed attacks, there are plenty of equal options available via ancestries, as Gobhaggo said. Magus also has Arcane Fists, which is just a straight upgrade.

You only get one of three when you take the feat. "Combined" doesn't mean "you get all of them", just "there wasn't any point in having multiple unarmed attack feats when they could be just one".

If it really is just Eldritch Nails and Living Hair combined, then no.

To be slightly more specific. The feat lets you pick one between eldritch nails (with the 'combine a strike with your hex' part removed), living hair, or a new teeth option that's a 1d8 unarmed attack (no other traits) each time you take it.

The attacks are fairly weak, not a ton better than fists.

There's also a followup feat at 4: Sympathetic Strike. It's an activity that lets you strike with one of those attacks and apply a -1 (-2 on a crit) circumstance penalty to saves against your hexes until the start of your next turn.

Here is a relevant excerpt from the Witch Dedication:

Choose a patron; you gain a familiar with two common cantrips of your choice from your chosen patron’s tradition, but aside from the tradition, you don’t gain any other effects the patron would usually grant. Your familiar gains the normal number of abilities for a familiar instead of those a witch familiar normally gets.

It looks to me like you get a witch's familiar, albeit one with a standard familiar's number of abilities. Whether or not the familiar's Undying ability (which is what brings it back) is included as part of a patron's tradition, seems debatable to me. Personally, I think not, as it's listed independently of the Patron Traditions. This leads me to believe that witch dedication familiars return each day, though there's plenty of room for disagreement.

Are there any Witch Dedication feats which get something from the Patron? Or are most Patrons still mechanically identical if you take Witch Dedication?

I'll admit, I was excited to hear about the Patron's Puppet thing coming. It sounded cool at first when I had heard about it;
'Get your patron to take over your familiar and command them!'. Of course, knowing myself, I put my expectations way, way, way too high. I thought we we're getting something absolutely bonkers. Something super cool looking, or something incredibly powerful. My mind raced with the possibilities!

Now I've seen a YouTube video talking about it and I have to say it's... one of the most disappointing let-downs I've seen in my TTRPG life.

Patron's Puppet lets me...
......... Pay... a precious focus point- of which I only get a mere 3 in any individual combat!
... To just... move my pet cat?

I.. p-pardon? Uhm... hello? Am I missing something here? Pay a precious resource to literally just have my cat take a few steps or something?

Maybe I'm just too intellectually lacking to think on tactics, but... my goodness this is a letdown. I like my familiar, but.. I cannot fathom ANY reason you'd sacrifice an FP just to move your familiar around a little bit.

I'll admit, I was excited to hear about the Patron's Puppet thing coming. It sounded cool at first when I had heard about it;

'Get your patron to take over your familiar and command them!'. Of course, knowing myself, I put my expectations way, way, way too high. I thought we we're getting something absolutely bonkers. Something super cool looking, or something incredibly powerful. My mind raced with the possibilities!

Now I've seen a YouTube video talking about it and I have to say it's... one of the most disappointing let-downs I've seen in my TTRPG life.

Patron's Puppet lets me...
......... Pay... a precious focus point- of which I only get a mere 3 in any individual combat!
... To just... move my pet cat?

I.. p-pardon? Uhm... hello? Am I missing something here? Pay a precious resource to literally just have my cat take a few steps or something?

Maybe I'm just too intellectually lacking to think on tactics, but... my goodness this is a letdown. I like my familiar, but.. I cannot fathom ANY reason you'd sacrifice an FP just to move your familiar around a little bit.

There are later feats that give familiars strong two action attacks. This lets you trigger those as a free action rather than single action. Plus it counts as a hex for your patron ability, so Resentment for example can maintain debuff while using three nonhex actions.

It’s cackle with different uses of the replacement action.

There are also familiar abilities to do things like cast a spell once a day.

it still kinda stings that Witch has to spend a focus point for a very specific +1 action while Bard spends 1 focus point for 3 actions over the course of a battle.

No hex immunity confirmed. That is nice.

No hex immunity confirmed. That is nice.

Mostly. A few, namely the arcane rune one, reportedly still have 1 minute immunity, cementing that patron in the basement.

Deriven Firelion wrote:

No hex immunity confirmed. That is nice.

Mostly. A few, namely the arcane rune one, reportedly still have 1 minute immunity, cementing that patron in the basement.

Any particular reason for Discern Secrets to have been excluded or is it possibly a mistake?

Xenocrat wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

No hex immunity confirmed. That is nice.

Mostly. A few, namely the arcane rune one, reportedly still have 1 minute immunity, cementing that patron in the basement.

Any particular reason for Discern Secrets to have been excluded or is it possibly a mistake?

I could see it being because of the free recall knowledge/seek/sense motive the target gets, assuming that hasn't changed.

GnollMage wrote:

I'll admit, I was excited to hear about the Patron's Puppet thing coming. It sounded cool at first when I had heard about it;

'Get your patron to take over your familiar and command them!'. Of course, knowing myself, I put my expectations way, way, way too high. I thought we we're getting something absolutely bonkers. Something super cool looking, or something incredibly powerful. My mind raced with the possibilities!

Now I've seen a YouTube video talking about it and I have to say it's... one of the most disappointing let-downs I've seen in my TTRPG life.

Patron's Puppet lets me...
......... Pay... a precious focus point- of which I only get a mere 3 in any individual combat!
... To just... move my pet cat?

I.. p-pardon? Uhm... hello? Am I missing something here? Pay a precious resource to literally just have my cat take a few steps or something?

Maybe I'm just too intellectually lacking to think on tactics, but... my goodness this is a letdown. I like my familiar, but.. I cannot fathom ANY reason you'd sacrifice an FP just to move your familiar around a little bit.

There are later feats that give familiars strong two action attacks. This lets you trigger those as a free action rather than single action. Plus it counts as a hex for your patron ability, so Resentment for example can maintain debuff while using three nonhex actions.

It’s cackle with different uses of the replacement action.

There are also familiar abilities to do things like cast a spell once a day.

Yup. Patron's Puppet will largely be unneeded for positioning thanks to Independent and the large array of mobility enhancements among familiar abilities. You use Patron's Puppet to unleash Spirit Familiar as a free action (with a focus point) instead of one action (without a focus point.)

I think the best strategy will probably be using Phase Familiar at levels 1-7 and then retraining it to Patron's Puppet at level 8.

Other uses:
•Free Action Valet + Consumables (Cauldron, Double,Double, Ceremonial Knife).
•Free action familiar Aid: Start a turn with Lend a Hand, Emote, Second Opinion
•Familiar activities: Breath Weapon (Faerie Dragon/House Wyrm), Elemental Breath, Spirit/Stitched Familiar, Restorative Familiar, Divine Emissary, Patron’s Presence/Claim.

If your Witch player uses Patron’s Puppet for Familiar Focus…please (PLEASE!) as a GM have the Witch’s patron manifest from the skies to slap their Witch for being silly.

I think Patron’s Puppet is fantastic! I know for years, most players have been advised to play Lesson Witches with their familiar shoved into their pocket for an extra focus point.

Lesson/Hex Witches got buffed by the refocus changes and the general hexing rule changes. That playstyle still exists and is even stronger (especially since most Lesson Witches were going Curse Witches anyway and Resentment is an incredible buff for the optimized Witch).

All of these other tools (different Witch patrons like Wild, Cauldron, Patron’s Puppet, Sympathetic Strike) are fantastic for those OTHER Witch playstyles that were desired, but poorly supported. Is some more tweaking needed? I think so! But it’s still great stuff!

Karmagator wrote:

If it really is just Eldritch Nails and Living Hair combined, then no.

To be slightly more specific. The feat lets you pick one between eldritch nails (with the 'combine a strike with your hex' part removed), living hair, or a new teeth option that's a 1d8 unarmed attack (no other traits) each time you take it.

The attacks are fairly weak, not a ton better than fists.

There's also a followup feat at 4: Sympathetic Strike. It's an activity that lets you strike with one of those attacks and apply a -1 (-2 on a crit) circumstance penalty to saves against your hexes until the start of your next turn.

So arguably useful for a punchy martial, though you'd only be taking Armaments to get to Sympathetic Strike, and then only really to help your less potent hexes land if you had some.

I don't think that Puppet is that great for a full focus point as it stands.

BUT

It is better than the terrible Phase familiar.

If familiar survivability seems to be an issue, I much rather spend one ability for life link, that gives me an at will reaction that guarantees to save the familiar, rather than waste a full focus point on what amounts to 5hp heighten only by 2hp per spell rank.

For the same amount of focus points, literally any healing focus ability grants way more than this. Even a simple lay on hands is 6+6/rank with additional AC bonuses. Life boost is 8/rank over 4 rounds, and etc.

---

So my guess is that people will pick up mostly Puppet just because it may be circumstantially usable at some point, but still use their actual focus points on actual good Focus powers rather than either of those two.