Character Options for Pathfinder Society and Guide Updates

Well, that confirms the outcome of the other week's story.

Leshy MD!

Wooo!! Lovely! Thank you!

Yay! So happy you're going back to "Guide to OP" titles. I never got used to calling them "Guild Guides" over the years.

I appreciate the name changes.

The biggest change is a revamp to how we are titling the guides. To avoid confusion with the upcoming Lost Omens: Pathfinder Society Guide (releasing in October) and to add cohesion to the Paizo Organized Play program as a whole, the guides will now be Guide to Organized Play. We are also dropping Roleplaying Guild from the names of the Pathfinder Society and the Starfinder Society. These are small naming convention changes that bring cohesion to the idea of Paizo Organized Play and society play as a whole!

Some people never stopped calling them that ^_^

Thank you for listening!

Just to clarify:

When you say Starfinder boons on chronicle sheets are being phased out in preparation for the introduction of a new Achievement Point system, do you mean *convention* boons, or the random boons on scenario / adventure path chronicle sheets, as well?

Will the Pathfinder Society Guide to Organized Play include a list and descriptions for all the AcP boons? That would make a great addition!

Will the newest versions of the Guides be available as a pdf again? Looking at the Second Edition Guide in particular.

I’m with MVH on this - the current format of the guide is absolutely abhorrent; a pdf version of it like in the old days would be great.

Thanks for the update. I got myself all excited about Legends, and forgot that 99% of the material is Uncommon or Rare and we don't have any method to purchase it atm :P

A printable PDF would be nice. I usually like to print it out and have a copy of it with me. The web version is nice, unless you are in place with bad connection and/or no wifi, it can make life difficult.

The "printable guide" on PFS prep is nice to have access to, but for some reason is a pain to print for me. Either the margins are lost or everything gets jumbled when I convert it to a PDF myself.

We are looking at making a resource for the AcP boons.

Yes, we want a printable guide for PFS2. We are working on generating it from the webpage automatically so that we can make quick updates and have them incorporated into the pdf. This is the one of the two highest priority on my plate post Gen-Con (now that AcP rolled for PFS2). SFS and PACS are still pdf based.

Glad ya like the names :)

I mean the boons on the Chronicle sheets. We will have the convention boons that are in cycle until next SFS season launch.

I mean the boons on the Chronicle sheets. We will have the convention boons that are in cycle until next SFS season launch.

Just to double clarify; do you mean it will be more like PF2 (where some things like ancestries are behind AcP insetead of being boons), but there will still be some minor story-like boons that give minor bonuses in specific situations?

I, and I am sure others, would like a PFS2 organized play pdf. It is so weird to not have one for so long. Please and thank you.

You could get the unofficial pdf here in the meantime.

Wait wait..... Aren't replays new?
Edit:
No.

...

I mean the boons on the Chronicle sheets. We will have the convention boons that are in cycle until next SFS season launch.

So, unlike PF2, the plan is no scenario boons, correct?

I really want to know what changes will be made to chronicle boons.

Oh dear. If they made Special Chronicles boon-less that... would be surprising and kind of sad. I mean, I know Solstice Scar is kind of crazy as far as special boons go, but still...

Well, as long as they stay written awesome.

Yeah.... gotta say I’m not a fan of this idea, at least not on the surface with what info we have now. I absolutely love the fun of getting neat flavorful boons with my games. They feel in-character and meaningful. This banking points and purchasing via acp thing feels much more meta. What is the motivation behind this change.

Also, race boons from scenarios helped give the great cantina feel. It saddens me that we’ll need to go from “play a game” to “play a whole bunch of games” to get one.

Apparently all 2e and SFS chronicles will lack boons from now on, whether they will unlock boons on website or something I'm unsure of.

=(

Thank-you for the clarification.

That said, I am saddened by it - boons (no matter how minor) on chronicle sheets have been how I have tracked the successes (and failures) of my PCs, over multiple OP campaigns, for 20 years - I hand-write them out for ease of reference, and they jog my memory to recall the story.

Honestly, without boons (which is part of the reason why I never really got into D&D 5E AL play), I struggle to see why chronicle sheets remain relevant - after all, apart from the occasional unique item, the actual item access on chronicles (regardless of system) is generally not worth paying attention to; you might as well shift to the 'multi-adventure tracking sheet' that WOTC's D&D AL uses.

People might argue that I could still do APs and home games, if I am unhappy with SFS play, but that misses the fact that I was doing SFS precisely because the other options weren't (locally) feasible.

If this is heralding how PFS2 is eventually going to go, I am doubly sad, because after doing a *lot* of GMing for PF2, with the APG out, I was finally looking into creating my first PFS2 PC... and from my perspective, there may no longer be a point to doing so.

TL;DR Reluctant as I am to do it (because I *know* Paizo produces excellent product), I guess I will 'stop throwing good money after bad', and cease paying attention to Starfinder.

While I do think boons can be really cool, I'm bit confused about idea of playing society only for boons.

I mean, my impression is that majority of people play society because they don't have time for longer AP campaigns or home games, so I'm confused if you mean that you'd rather not play at all than play game without boons?

And to clarify, I do I get being disappointed about it. I'm myself more neutral since I both find boons to be cool and am frustrated by how tedious it is to keep up with all of them. I'm more of just waiting to see what lack of boons means in practice and whether it gets replaced by better system or not. The original first few season chronicles didn't have boons at all(or at least not always) and they were bit of disappointing rewards compared to later chronicles

But yeah, I'm personally in interested in learning whether chronicles will unlock new boons on website or what since it feels kinda odd if we never anymore unlock special backgrounds for 2e from society scenarios or unlock admittance boons from SFS. Like if boons are all replaced just by acp and all acp rewards are available regardless of scenario you play, you don't get that same feeling of being rewarded as you would from home campaign or ap.

I still can't access the season 3 Starfinder Society guide? The one that I can download is just season 2 again.

@Jesse: To be clear, I am not saying that I play Society solely for any 'power-up' that is received from scenario boons; I am saying that is how I *remember* scenarios.

For example, one of my fondest memories from early PFS1 is a hilariously terrible boon which grants a +1 on checks to influence Gnolls… but only those from Katapesh, and only those from the *western* half of Katapesh (which sharply limited its 'usefulness') ;-)

Early PFS1 may not have had much in the way of boons, for the most part, but the items on chronicle sheets *mattered*, since in the early days of PFS1, that was the only way to get item access (beyond a *very* limited list) - so, for example, if you wanted a Wand of CLW, you actually had to *find* one; you couldn't just buy it for 2PP. This provided the game with a frisson of excitement, making the chronicle sheets memorable in other ways. However, under the current PFS1 system, I acknowledge that they are now fairly inconsequential sheets.

What I am saying is that if there is a shift to no boons on Society chronicles, then Society play just isn't worth my time, since I don't see the point of collecting the chronicles (in the same way that I don't really see D&D AL play as really worth my time); instead, I will focus solely on the other thing that I have been doing for years - running APs as solitaire games on the PbP boards.

Don't get me wrong - I will still GM PF2, since I enjoy running the scenarios for my regular online group, and at the occasional convention; I just won't see the point of collecting the sheets for myself.

@Jesse: To be clear, I am not saying that I play Society solely for any 'power-up' that is received from scenario boons; I am saying that is how I *remember* scenarios.

For example, one of my fondest memories from early PFS1 is a hilariously terrible boon which grants a +1 on checks to influence Gnolls… but only those from Katapesh, and only those from the *western* half of Katapesh (which sharply limited its 'usefulness') ;-)

Early PFS1 may not have had much in the way of boons, for the most part, but the items on chronicle sheets *mattered*, since in the early days of PFS1, that was the only way to get item access (beyond a *very* limited list) - so, for example, if you wanted a Wand of CLW, you actually had to *find* one; you couldn't just buy it for 2PP. This provided the game with a frisson of excitement, making the chronicle sheets memorable in other ways. However, under the current PFS1 system, I acknowledge that they are now fairly inconsequential sheets.

What I am saying is that if there is a shift to no boons on Society chronicles, then Society play just isn't worth my time, since I don't see the point of collecting the chronicles (in the same way that I don't really see D&D AL play as really worth my time); instead, I will focus solely on the other thing that I have been doing for years - running APs as solitaire games on the PbP boards.

Don't get me wrong - I will still GM PF2, since I enjoy running the scenarios for my regular online group, and at the occasional convention; I just won't see the point of collecting the sheets for myself.

Ah oki, that clarified my misunderstanding :D But yeah that western gnolls of Katapesh boon is minor meme from what I've seen, its joked about among veterans in finnish scene too

What's really hillarious about the Gnolls is some 7 years later there's finally a scenario... Set in Katapesh... With Gnolls... Who are explicitly from the east :(

What's really hillarious about the Gnolls is some 7 years later there's finally a scenario... Set in Katapesh... With Gnolls... Who are explicitly from the east :(

and gnolls. IiiiIIIIn spaaAAAAAaaace

The Last Bite chronicle was... underwhelming and a horrific end to a very cool Special that was incredibly stressful yet fun.

Please, Organized Play, step away from the 'grind/MMORPG' concept and go back to the flavour-full Boons that made Organized Play awesome instead of a bland boring tabletop WoW/AL clone.

Please. Have the Chronicles tell a full story, rather than being a receipt of participation. What is a Report of Exploration and Cooperation without... a Report? Or the Exploration?

Not sure how having ACP removes the "explore" part there.

Having something to work for instead of taking a gamble on a certain scenario and hoping it pays off I don't consider bland.

They're still monitoring the scenarios, so the scenarios themselves are telling a story.

The Last Bite chronicle was... underwhelming and a horrific end to a very cool Special that was incredibly stressful yet fun.

Please, Organized Play, step away from the 'grind/MMORPG' concept and go back to the flavour-full Boons that made Organized Play awesome instead of a bland boring tabletop WoW/AL clone.

Please. Have the Chronicles tell a full story, rather than being a receipt of participation. What is a Report of Exploration and Cooperation without... a Report? Or the Exploration?

ah yes, the system that the majority of people disliked so they made a new system more widely available to the majority of players, where anyone can be a catfolk with a little effort instead of only rich people who "buy" a boon through donations

the old system where only a HANDFUL of people could get anything cool. and that handful consisted of people with money to spend and time to waste because getting to the location of said boons cost a lot of money, time, and effort because you had to be a GM (for a lot of the cool race boons), which means you dont actually play the game, and players ended up also not getting said boons except an even smaller handful via raffles.

theyve already explained themselves over the new system. while some people will get the short stick, an overwhelming majority of players WORLD WIDE will benefit heavily. Sure it requires a LITTLE "grind" but they are also releasing a lot more replayable scenarios, and while they may grow somewhat boring after a few goes, it does not take much effort to get the acp for a boon compared to most "grind/mmorpg" systems. Remember, you are supposed to be playing a game for the experience, not a destination. You wont be showing people your chronicle, you will be telling them the story personally because everyone has a sliiiightly different experience.

WoW as your example, actually requires dedicated playing at a certain time, every week, for MONTHS. and mostly only on that specific day or 2, during specific times, usually the afternoon

Society play you can do anywhere, anytime, as much as you want. no "once a week" timegates like your example of WoW (admittedly im using the video game mmorpg WoW, not whatever table top version exists)

and more importantly this works exceedingly well in retrospect of the corona virus. i doubt they expected this to happen. this virus will likely be going on into the next year and the system will be exceedingly useful for that very situation and moving foward

Plus, if you give away boons on all the scenarios, then you wont really sell books, which means less money to paizo and lower quality Society in general.

If we wanted meaningless grind for rewards, we would play 5e...

One of the things that made PFS/SFS more interesting was the fact that some scenarios had boons, be they minor boosts, meta checkpoints, or whatever...

~

One of the biggest draws, mechanically, of the multi-table specials has always been the odd boons you could earn...

The other big draw, at least for me, is getting together with a bunch of random players from all over, to work together as a group, to tackle some big world changing event... It loses something online...

~

Plus, if you give away boons on all the scenarios, then you wont really sell books, which means less money to paizo and lower quality Society in general.

... Not sure how you arrive at that conclusion...

Any boon granting access to something still requires you to own the book, so no lost sales... In point of fact, that can drive up sales...

Am I crazy or is the Year 2 guide still the one that downloads when you download the Starfinder guide?

As for boons vs AcP - I have been against moving to AcP the entire time.

It's unwieldy, depends too much on the system working - every GM needs to report in a timely and correct manner, the paizo website needs to actually function without hiccups (stares at the incorrect nova count on his profile), and what's more does actually very little to fix the haves and have-nots situation that people complain about given the way AcP scales.

Without boons and with item access being....basically irrelevant, I barely see the point in fumbling around with chronicles. I mean if we're so very confident in the efficacy of the website, why not simply allow that to be the record?

I mean I'm willing to give it a chance, but I'd just as soon save the paper for all the good the chronicles are doing at this point.

I would love to know the reasoning behind the death of chronicle boons...

~

If, as has been suggested by some, it is a matter of on-boarding... then moving to AcP would make things worse... X games for Y option...

A benefit of scenario boons is you can immediately gain an option, or start earning an option.

~

Anyone starting SFS with season 3 or PF2 with season 2 are going to be much worse off then people who have played earlier season scenarios... again, bad for on-boarding new players...

Neither of the Free RPG Day adventures have really compelling items, without scenario boons they are going to be disappointing to a lot of people...

~

I fully support the idea that not all scenarios need boons, but no boons on any scenario seems worse to me...

Am I crazy or is the Year 2 guide still the one that downloads when you download the Starfinder guide?

They are giving an ETA of next week...

~

That said, the sancioning/chronicles for the Free RPG Day adventures were also given an ETA of 'next week'... last week... still MIA...

Killing of the chronicle boons IMO will hurt more than help. A lot of players enjoy getting boons the add flavor or options to their characters.

One of my favorite boons I received, added a third ear to my ratfolk in the middle of his forehead. It may not have added any mechanical benefit. It did add flavor to my character. The boon could be cured with a remove disease or curse, not sure which one, if you wanted to.

If chronicles are going to be something that just track adventures, gold and what not. Might as well just move to a single sheet that tracks multiple adventures.

As

Without boons and with item access being....basically irrelevant, .

In PFS or SFS because a lot of items in PFS are rarity locked items?

I have to say, I’m a bit underwhelmed by the chronicle sheets. I *DO* like the recap at the top, but the sheet is mostly just a waste of space - the information that is there could easily be done on an half-sheet.

I played both The Last Bite and The King in Thorns. I enjoyed both very much, but when I got my chronicles, I was disappointed. Those scenarios are specials - maybe those could have more conventional type scenario boons, while regular scenarios don’t?

But, it seems like a lot of flavor was lost by not having boons on the chronicle.

Just my two cents.

ah yes, the system that the majority of people disliked so they made a new system more widely available to the majority of players, where anyone can be a catfolk with a little effort instead of only rich people who "buy" a boon through donations

Hold on. I'm hardly a champion of the old old "DM at a convention or get nothing" model but those aren't the kinds of boons we're talking about. We're talking about the boons that come on a chronicle, which anyone has the same chance to get as a player and the dm is a little more likely to get. These boons could hardly get more democratic without being given out to everyone.

I don't think its a problem that DMing boons or large convention boons exist, just that they're the ONLY way or the high way. Just like I don't see why having ACP boons requires taking chronicle boons away.

Aetheldrake wrote:

ah yes, the system that the majority of people disliked so they made a new system more widely available to the majority of players, where anyone can be a catfolk with a little effort instead of only rich people who "buy" a boon through donations

Hold on. I'm hardly a champion of the old old "DM at a convention or get nothing" model but those aren't the kinds of boons we're talking about. We're talking about the boons that come on a chronicle, which anyone has the same chance to get as a player and the dm is a little more likely to get. These boons could hardly get more democratic without being given out to everyone.

I don't think its a problem that DMing boons or large convention boons exist, just that they're the ONLY way or the high way. Just like I don't see why having ACP boons requires taking chronicle boons away.

A lot of the boons on chronicle sheets were flavor, or related in some way to the story of the scenario. Those things are lost with the ACP system, I think - unless they show up in the ACP system. I like those chronicle boons because, while not as significant as a race/ancestry boon, they gave nice little buffs (for example, in Year of the Demon, I got a boon that allowed me to get a nexavarian steel weapon which is the same as cold iron - and I used that from season 5 until I retired that character in season 10.). That’s the kind of stuff we’re talking about.

I liked the idea of AcP replacing convention boons, even as a former every-slot GM. It was an excellent way to equalize distribution and access, even with the drawbacks (no more giving away boons to new players or trading boons).

However, the switch to "empty" Chronicle sheets is a huge disappointment. The opportunity for special, unique, and flavorful boons was my favorite part of Society play, and was part of why I truly loved it as an alternative to home games.

Hopefully this is just a temporary test that gets phased out. If not... well, I'll deal. But I'll have lost the thing I liked most about Society play.

That's progress sometimes, I suppose.

Not sure how having ACP removes the "explore" part there.

Having something to work for instead of taking a gamble on a certain scenario and hoping it pays off I don't consider bland.

They're still monitoring the scenarios, so the scenarios themselves are telling a story.

I like having boons directly related to my characters' adventures. Even if it's just flavor or roleplaying boons, like a knighthood earned from helping a noble, a creature that sits on my shoulder, or an NPC I befriended that becomes an ally boon.

I would love to know the reasoning behind the death of chronicle boons...

Personally, though I doubt Paizo would admit it, I believe it has a lot to do with the requirements placed on the development team. Creating interesting boons is a challenge. No matter how many there are, we want more. Having to support the AcP boons, the PtP boons, RsP boons, and individual scenario boons is a fairly big investment both in creativity and process manipulation. Getting a chronicle through design, authoring, development, editing, art, layout, IT, etc is fairly simply if you look at a single sheet with blinders on, but when you consider how many there are and how often new ones need to be created, it can be a significant drain on the Paizo team. Better to focus on a single avenue of boons (AcP) and significantly reduce/eliminate them from other locations.

Now that AcP is largely working as intended, they can start migrating everything to that system for simplicity and perceived fairness.

I, personally, have no issues with Convention boons moving to the AcP system, but I am also disappointed that the chronicle sheet boons are going away. They don't always have to be a rules element, but playing a scenario and being able to say that you impressed a NPC and it make a difference is the sort of stuff I love about Society play.

Without chronicle boons, we never would have gotten Mormalaws and Copaxis in SFS.

I'm under impression from paizocon and gencon streams and devs chatting in discord that they are more of planning for scenarios to unlock 0 acp cost boons on website, but I have no how that is gonna work if that is their plan.

I also hope like heck that it doesn't make something like HLO mandatory to be able to access said Boons (0 ACP boons are not 'free' if one has to spend five hours playing AND pay into a subscription programme that double-taxes a player.)

Hopefully the flavorful 'neat' stuff remains on the chronicle and the 'heavy mechanical' stuff moves to the ACP with either a discounted or 'free' price.

I also hope like heck that it doesn't make something like HLO mandatory to be able to access said Boons (0 ACP boons are not 'free' if one has to spend five hours playing AND pay into a subscription programme that double-taxes a player.)

Hopefully the flavorful 'neat' stuff remains on the chronicle and the 'heavy mechanical' stuff moves to the ACP with either a discounted or 'free' price.

Why would that be mandatory? as far as I can see, no-one but you has even mentioned HLO.

That HLO code on the top of the chronicle sheet? They mentioned recently is no longer an HLO code, now it's just a chronicle code that some of their partners may choose to use.

Just to give an alternative data point, I have been largely ignoring boons on character sheets since I started playing in Season 2.