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Pointless thread revival was pointless because the rules already covered this. You cannot use Breath Weapon on consecutive turns without an ability or effect recharging it for you, I already cited the rule that states this, if nobody wants to read it or chooses to ignore it for their home games, that's their prerogative, but it's still incorrect from a RAW (and RAI) standpoint.

By RAW the statement in the Monter Building rules is incorrect, but it is a statement of the RAI...

The RAW needs to be corrected to reflect the RAI.

Was written the 'cooldown' is a duration, and 1 round would clear at the start of your next turn.

The stated intent would be 'until the end of your next 1d4 turns' to set the clearing at the end of your turns, starting with your end of your next (1) turn through up to 4th following turn... as covered in the general rule on durations.

... please reread what you have linked...

"Anything you do in the game has an effect."

Is Breath Weapon something you are doing in the game?

If so, it has an effect... th effect is to, both, do area damage and set a duration until you can use Breath Weapon again.

You have misconstrued not having a Duration entry with not having a duration.

The Breath Weapon entry doesn't say anything about having a Cooldown... it describes a cool down, by setting a duration until the ability can be used again.

But... TOZ, Finoan, and Eoran have made it clear that there is no effect preventing you from using the Breath Weapon every round...

I was under the misconception that there was an effect that states "You can’t use this ability again for 1d4 rounds."

Which lists a variable duration "1d4 rounds"

It is not worded as 'until the end of' or 'through', so the duration of the effect counts down at the start of your turns...

I also expect that it is not allowed to Dismiss the 'unable to use Breath Weapon' effect. Also because there is no effect.

So there is no effect preventing you from using the Breath Weapon every turn... so what is this thread about?

It is not a duration though.

It is not 'the length of time something lasts, or the time it takes for something to be completed'?

What duration?

For the example giving in this thread, the duration of time you cannot use your Breath Weapon.

If you can use it the next round after initial use, then there were 0 rounds where you couldn't use it.

I'll be ruling the timer starts and ends at the end of the turn.

So a Duration of 1 round, started Round 1, lasts until the start of round 3, otherwise it hasn't lasted 1 full round.

I saw this thread keep going for a bit and really wondered why.

Just look at the kobold breath feat that says,
"You can’t use this ability again for 1d4 rounds."
You use the ability on round 1 and roll a 1. Now you cant use this ability for 1 round. If you could use this ability on round 2 then you wouldn't have had any rounds where you couldn't use the ability. You would have used it on round 1 and used it again on round 2.
Thats not what its telling you to do.

Giving the rounds numbering helps.
Round 1 - use breath weapon. roll 1d4, yay I rolled a 1.
Round 2 - I can't use the breath weapon because I need to go 1 whole round without using this ability. Remember cant use this ability for 1 round. Doesn't just say cant use this ability for the rest of this round.
Round 3 - Alright since I only rolled a 1 and have gone a whole round where I couldn't use the ability I can now use it again. I use it and roll a 2.
Round 4 - Cant use it
Round 5 - Cant use it
Round 6 - Alright I went two whole rounds where I couldn't use it and now I can again...what? is everything dead? aw come-on why couldn't you save me at least one enemy to roast again?

So, a 1 round duration lasts started on Round 1 lasts until the start of round 3... as it is not a duration of 'the rest of this round', correct?

Otherwise, the same basic wording '1 round' must mean the same thing...

If the '1 round' duration ends at the start of the next round, the '1 round' until you can use again is up at the start of the next round.

The Character Options Page covers this I think.

"The suggested rarity adjustments of ancestries for characters from Tian Xia are not used in Organized Play.
Boons must still be purchased for uncommon and rare ancestries, regardless of a character’s origin."

Missed that... good catch, thanks

Some of the Ancestries added in the Tian Xia Character Guide multiple Rarities listed...

The Tanuki is a great example...

Rarity

Uncommon
Tanuki are common in Minkai, the Forest of Spirits, and Goka

For Society play does this mean that if the Character comes from Minkai, the Forest of Spirits, or Goka, you would not need a Boon?

Samsaran has a similar split Rarity...

Conversely, would a Sprite from Tian Xia need a boon to choose the Draxie, Grig, Melixie, and/or Nyktera heritages as they are Uncommon in Tian Xia?

I have gone with the assumption that the gun-drone things near the center of the map are the ship guns...

The standard DC for level 0 is DC 14... so I have gone with a +4...

My table started Cosmic Birthday last saturday and, at least at 1st level, Hair Trigger is certainly overpowered as I suspected. I remember at least two encounters which ended in a single round because the operative had lucky rolls or crits against its first two targets and then a lucky roll or crit while using Hair Trigger in the foe's turn. Also the soldier of the party took Warning Spray which made some encounters like the ooze trivial.

Can definitely see that being an issue, as the Operative is the only Expert weapon Prof class, saw that issue in the level 1 playtest scenario... the solo monster fight was ended on it's first action for that exact reason...

Stress Tested @Lv 5; wasn't as strong as it was at level 1, though that is primarily do to the enemies... did fair to poor in the first fight... 2d10(even with a potential +2d6) is very swingy, especially against things with resistance to Piercing damage...

Did better in the last fight, definitely helped speed of that fight. A fairly reliable 3 shots a round, 2 at no MAP, and a good chance of hitting with all 3 and an okay change of one being a crit can put out a lot of damage.

+16/+11 for 2d10+2d6 P (Aim > Shoot > Shoot)
+16 for 2d10 P (Hair Trigger)

Just going off the base AC of the last fight; Hit on a roll of 8 (65% probability of a Hit, 15% a Crit Hit) for the first and Hair Trigger shots... need a 13 for the second shot (40% probability), you will make it just under every other turn, on average...

... Built and played at level 1 a Stress test... the only real difference to my original Skirmisher build was weapon choice.

Using a Seeker Rifle (Range 120ft.; 1d10 P) and a bit of luck on initiative and attack rolls, the 1st critter died when it moved towards the party...

Got 2 Aimed shots off on my turn, both hit, 1 crit, and hit on the Hair Trigger AoO when it moved...

I am seeing the potential issue now... and will continue to try to Stress Test is at the higher levels...

I am definitely leaning towards the 'Hair Trigger needs to be limited to Pistols' camp...

The more limited range/damage from the 'Pistols' greatly limit the overall power of the Ranged AoO, imho...

You might have technical access, but going by the starting wealth table, you have 2700 cr or Items of 4,3,3,2,1,1 + 500 cr...

Tactical (Lv 5) armor costs 1600+base cost, so you are spending just over 2/3 of your lump sum on just the armor... leaving you with less than 900 cr for all of the rest of your gear...

If you are going with the 6 Items + 500 cr. You don't actually have access to Tactical armor...

Unless you know you will NEED armor above level 0, you are not likely to have armor higher than level 0.

exequiel759 wrote:

I agree it has to be nerfed, but 15 feet for a ranged focused game is the same as nothing. Specially for a class that is made to stay at range. That's why I think ranged Opportune Riposte would be way more approipiate (its not like people would be bothered, most people think Opportune Riposte is a weak feature anyways).

The skirmisher operative is not a long ranged character, though. Everything about the specialization is screaming close range Gun Kata. The feat is primarily for that specialization and should support it. Extending the range nerfs the feat's potential too much. Like I said, a long range version of the feat for a sniper on overwatch should probably be included as well, but trying to fit both mechanics into one is going to result in the feat failing to fulfill either fantasy.

Advanced Sniper's Scope makes a Semi-Auto Pistol Range Increment 100ft.

As a level 9 item, it only really becomes an issue around then... but the Commercial(Lv 1) and Tactical(Lv 3) make it an 80ft Increment...

That said, the reaction limit keeps it from being too much of an issue...

The 'better' weapons, the Battery operated Pistols, start at a Rng Inc of 30 or 40, so get a +10(Lv 1 and 3) or +20(Lv 9) with scope...

... having just prepared my Skirmisher for lv 10, those are the numbers currently fresh in my mind... the biggest issue I have run into so far is the fixed Magazine size on the Semi-Auto Pistol, always 5.

If you are shooting twice a turn, you are reloading every 3rd turn, if you are firing twice and Hair Trigger, you reload every 2nd turn, and either don't Aim or leave 1 in the Mag on the reload turns... or end empty on turn 2...

I'll definitely keep an eye on this... might see if I can build something to try abusing it... <i>stress test</i> it...

The scenario assumes that party has Environmental Protection available... the issue is all of the Armor is level 0, so 0 days of Environmental Protection... with the sole exception of the Flight Suit (+0 ac/+5 Dex cap)...

As currently written the party fails almost as soon as they start...

The in-universe base is a rice grain of polymer... the UPB...

So you must either spend 10 times the value to make a CP equivalent item if the UPB = 1 SP... or reset the UPB to equal 1 CP...

Would have been easier to just value set the Credit to equal 1 CP...

It would give you the bigger numbers people would expect for modern/future costs...

PF2 Adventurer's Pack costs 1.5 gp... that would be 150 credits... $150 would be a steal for a good backpack and basic camping/adventuring gear in the modern world...

It would also, generally remove the need for fractional credits...

The meta for Starfinder is Ranged combat, not melee... the argument that Multiarms grant you the 'benefit' of swapping weapons without provoking ignores that AoO's are not as ubiquitous as they were in SF1e...

The 3-action economy and Multiple Attack Penalty already stop the 'more weapons = more attacks' issue that people seem to keep jumping on...

The only other issue I have seen, and that I personally agree is an issue, is fixed by Ungainly/Heavy weapons having a built-in limit of 1 at a time, that can be baked into the Traits/Rules for such weapons/items...

Do we have an ETA for the Starfinder Playtest Tracking Sheet?

It is referenced in at least two of the Blogs...
Starfinder Playtest: Demos, Pregens, and Playtest Scenarios!
Starfinder Society Second Edition Playtest

Will there be sketch covers for the pocket editions?

Quote:

Until a full list of deity sanctifications is published, any deity without published sanctification is treated as “can sanctify to holy.” Any champion may select any of the three Tenets of Good from the Core Rulebook (Paladin, Liberator or Redeemer) regardless of deity.

Point of Pedantry... Tenet is Good/Evil, Cause is specific Alignment...

So that should be '... any of the three Causes of the Tenet of Good (Paladin, Liberator, or Redeemer)...' Or just 'Causes of Good'...

And yet, they managed to cover it just fine.

... I know of some obscure deities that probably won't make it on the list... that are distinctly evil... that the WIP stop-gap will make Holy... but extreme corner-cases aside... should work...

I know a few Champion players who will be glad to hear that there is a fix in the works for the 15th... there was a little worry given the lack of news about how no Alignment would impact the Champion until PC2...

For the record, no, I don't like seeing "40 new posts," on threads like this, but thanks for checking!

Champions will be fine, promise. Here, let me leak two (not final) sentences from the document.

Quote:

Until a full list of deity sanctifications is published, any deity without published sanctification is treated as “can sanctify to holy.” Any champion may select any of the three Tenets of Good from the Core Rulebook (Paladin, Liberator or Redeemer) regardless of deity.

Thanks Alex.

Alright, if you need the GM to specifically say 'yes you can play without an alignment' I'll leave it for Alex to post when he's back on the clock then.

I play Organized Play, therefor, we need an Official ruling anytime we are supposed to not follow the rules as written.

Personally, I think the Champion should have been in Player Core 1, since it is the Alignment Class, and they planned on removing Alignment with PC1...

Tempest_Knight wrote:

Show me were the rules have been revoked?

This blog.

So, nothing happens to the causes and tenets?

Nothing in this blog specifically removes the Alignment restrictions of the Champion.

We have a general 'play it as written if it hasn't been remastered yet'... and we have a few rules that everyone immediately must follow...

So, we have to follow the rules as written for the Champion, but we no longer have Alignment...

So we no longer meet the requirements for any Tenet or Cause, as written, as we no longer are Good and especially not LG, NG, nor CG.

Thus, as written, all champions are no longer legally built.

You could argue that counts as 'straying from your alignment' and thus you lose access to your Focus pool and Divine Ally, and anything that depends on them...

Tempest_Knight wrote:

TriOmegaZero wrote:

Please provide the alignment requirements of the champion as proof.

So, you are arguing that Alignment is not a requirement for the Champion?

Yes. Deities have been reprinted, without Required Follower Alignment. Thus, when you check to see if your champion is allowed to be a follower of their deity, there is no restriction.

Please provide the rules that require your champion to have an alignment. What happens to your cause if you do not have an alignment?

Have your read the Champion class rules?

More specifically, Causes and Tenets?

Your Tenet is determined by your Alignment(Good/Evil) and your Cause is determined by your specific Alignment(LG/NG/CG/LE/NE/CE) was per the Champion class rules.

Show me were the rules have been revoked?

Tempest_Knight wrote:

TriOmegaZero wrote:

Quote:

If a character option has not been reprinted, characters are free to use the option as previously printed, or to select it at any time.

The champion has not been reprinted, thus you can continue to use the original until it is. So those characters are still legal.

Not without the corresponding Required Alignments... with the loss of ALL Alignments, the characters can no longer meet the Alignment requirements.

If alignment as been removed from the game, how can there be alignment REQUIREMENTS? You’re trying to take part of remaster and part of 2e original and merge them together in a way that is just nonsensical.

Until there is an Official ruling, we must follow the rules as written...

That means that the Tenets and Causes of the Champion can not be used as of the 15th... as you lack the required Alignments.

Please provide the alignment requirements of the champion as proof.

So, you are arguing that Alignment is not a requirement for the Champion?

So, I can have a Chaotic Neutral Paladin? (Sarcasm)

If we want to get pedantic, you could be a Champion, you just can't follow any Tenet or Cause...

Tenets are shared by all Champions based on Alignment(Good/Evil).

Cause is based on Specific Alignment(LG/NG/CG/LE/NE/CE).

Your cause must match your alignment exactly.

With no Alignment, there are no Tenets that match your Good/Evil alignment.

With no Alignment, there are no Causes that match your alignment exactly.

The issue is not with the Class's Rules as Written... the issue is with the removal of Alignment and how that impacts a class specifically built to interact with alignment.

Quote:

If a character option has not been reprinted, characters are free to use the option as previously printed, or to select it at any time.

The champion has not been reprinted, thus you can continue to use the original until it is. So those characters are still legal.

Not without the corresponding Required Alignments... with the loss of ALL Alignments, the characters can no longer meet the Alignment requirements.

Tempest_Knight wrote:

As currently laid out, Champions all become illegal as of November 15th...

see above blog; Specific Rules; bullet #1 wrote:

Alignment: Alignment has been removed from the game. PCs and NPCs no longer have alignment.

This means that all Champions become illegal builds on the 15th, as they no longer meet the Alignment requirements.

Can we please get a fix for this issue?

No. Alignment has been removed, which means all alignment requirements have been removed as well. They are replaced by anathema and edicts.

No where has that assertion been stated as a rule.

There has been nothing removing the Alignment requirements from the Champion.

What is being asked for, is an Official ruling stating that, or however else they plan on fixing that.

As currently laid out, Champions all become illegal as of November 15th...

Alignment: Alignment has been removed from the game. PCs and NPCs no longer have alignment.

This means that all Champions become illegal builds on the 15th, as they no longer meet the Alignment requirements.

Can we please get a fix for this issue?

The Commercial Laser Pistol cannot accept a battery...

It is listed as Capacity 5, thus only able to use a battery with a maximum capacity of 5.

The Batteries come in 10, 20, 40 capacity...

As I recall... Season 7's Faithless & Forgotten trilogy set the major outlook/goal change...

The only clue that the new art is meant to be Zarta is the rough approximation of the Society Guide clothing...

The product page does state "The terrain comes unpainted and unassembled." at the bottom of the "Box Contains:" section...

They have stated that hybrid options in the full book...

Is there an Online component?

What about the new Starfinder Society Factions (Advocates, Cognates, Manifold Host)?

Also, I second my Corvid brother, What about the Shadow Lodge?

Tempest_Knight wrote:

diami03 wrote:

Also....these have to be assembled?

Yep, they are on a multipart sprue...

Similar to Games Workshop minis or the Wizkids/D&D Frameworks minis...

Thanks.

Darn! I was hoping they would remain assembled like the ones I got in Wave 1. I guess I'll just add these to the "Needs to be assembled" shelf of shame with my Kingdom Death Monster minis.

the info page for the Human Soldier lists...

"Box contains:
• 1x Human Soldier
• 32mm scaled
• High Quality Plastic
• Scenic base included
All models come unpainted and unassembled."

The level of detail should be better then the DeepCuts minis, but a little less convenient having to build them...

Also....these have to be assembled?

Yep, they are on a multipart sprue...

Similar to Games Workshop minis or the Wizkids/D&D Frameworks minis...

+14 is possible at level 1 in Starfinder...

+4 from Ability Modifier
+1 Rank
+3 Class Skill
+3 Insight (Skill Focus)
+2 Racial
+1 Theme Knowledge

Doesn't have to be an Operative.

Level 2 allows for +16
+1 more Rank
+1 more from Personal Upgrade Mk 1

Tempest_Knight wrote:

We NEED a correction to the Resorces and Options For Pathfinder Society Characters (Character Options) page to reflect this intent as it is currently diametrically opposed to the written rules.

Already covered.

Quote:

[...] unless the item indicates otherwise.

The sidebar expressly indicates otherwise, no changes or special guidelines required.

The guidance/rule quoted from page 150, only restricts access through the 'ancestry weapon prof' feats... stating clearly that 'a elf/dwarf/etc who has never seen a firearm and trains in traditional ancestry weapons does not gain access to 'ancestry' firearms.'

The specific example being a Dwarf who does not have access to firearms does not gain access to the Clan Pistol and Dwarven Scattergun by taking Dwarven Weapon Training.

It says nothing about how the Character Options page grants access.

Currently there is no rule overriding the Character Options grant of ALL Uncommon weapons to all Gunslingers.

Thod wrote:

2nd edition - Does the PFS access overule the need of being a dwarf for buying a clan pistol?

No.

... While I support this rule ('Ancestry' weapons need Ancestry Weapon' Feat)...

It is currently in flagrant conflict with the access granted in the Character Options section...

Gunslingers (and characters with the Gunslinger archetype) gain access to all uncommon weapons, ammunition, and related items from Chapter 4 of this book, with the exception of Beast Guns and any limited or restricted items below, unless the item indicates otherwise.

The Clan Pistol is an Uncommon Weapon from Chapter 4... as are all other 'Ancestry' guns...

We NEED a correction to the Resorces and Options For Pathfinder Society Characters (Character Options) page to reflect this intent as it is currently diametrically opposed to the written rules.

Do we know what books/APs this goes through yet?

Are Integrated Firearms/Weapons allowed in Society play?

Pathfinder Society question about the Chronicle Sheet;

The Chronicle only lists a firearm in the items list, does it also grant access to it's ammunition?

Sanctioning docs?

or from other (arcane/divine/primal) spells you gain access to.

In Society play you have access to all non-Limited/Restricted Common spells... so there was no issue, unless you ignore the second half of the oft quoted 'problems sentence...

The 'fix' created a restriction on ALL prepared casters.

The 'fix(2.0)' for the 'fix' only lifts the restriction for 3 of the 5 impacted classes...

And that is before we get into a discussion about the validity of 'clarification' changing the rules...