Fighter Class Preview

Monday, March 19, 2018

Over the past 2 weeks, we've tried to give you a sense of what Pathfinder Second Edition is all about, but now it's time to delve into some details on the classes. From now until the game releases in August, we'll go through the classes one by one, pausing now and then to look at various rules and systems. Today, let's take a look at one of the most foundational classes in the game: the fighter.

The fighter was one of the first classes we redesigned, alongside the rogue, cleric, and wizard. We knew that we wanted these four to work well in concert with each other, with the fighter taking on the role of primary combat character, good at taking damage and even better at dealing damage. The fighter has to be the best with weapons, using his class options to give him an edge with his weapons of choice. The fighter also has to be mobile, able to get into the fray quickly and hold the line, allowing less melee-oriented characters time to get into position and use their abilities without have to fend off constant attacks.

Let's start by looking at some of the features shared by all fighters.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

First up is attacks of opportunity. This feature allows you to spend your reaction to strike a creature within your reach that tries to manipulate an object (like drinking a potion), make a ranged attack, or move away from you. This attack is made with a –2 penalty, but it doesn't take the multiple attack penalty from other strikes you attempt on your turn. Other classes can get this ability—and numerous monsters will as well—but only the fighter starts with it a core feature. Fighters also have feat choices that can make their attacks of opportunity more effective.

Next up, at 3rd level, you gain weapon mastery, which increases your proficiency rank with one group of weapons to master. Your proficiency rank increases to legendary at 13th level, making you truly the best with the weapons of your choice. At 19th level, you become a legend with all simple and martial weapons!

The fighter gets a number of other buffs and increases as well, but one I want to call out in particular is battlefield surveyor, which increases your Perception proficiency rank to master (you start as an expert), and gives you an additional +1 bonus when you roll Perception for initiative, helping you be first into the fight!

As mentioned in the blog last week, the real meat behind the classes is in their feats and (as of this post), the fighter has the largest selection of feats out of all the classes in the game! Let's take a look at some.

You've probably already heard about Sudden Charge. You can pick up this feat at 1st level. When you spend two actions on it, this feat allows you to move up to twice your speed and deliver a single strike. There's no need to move in a straight line and no AC penalty—you just move and attack! This feat lets the fighter jump right into the thick of things and make an immediate impact.

Next let's take a look at Power Attack. This feat allows you to spend two actions to make a single strike that deals an extra die of damage. Instead of trading accuracy for damage (as it used to work), you now trade out an action you could have used for a far less accurate attack to get more power on a roll that is more likely to hit.

As you go up in level, some of the feats really allow you to mix things up. Take the 4th-level feat Quick Reversal, for example. If you are being flanked and you miss with your second or third attack against one of the flankers, this feat lets you redirect the attack to the other target and reroll it, possibly turning a miss into a hit!

We've talked before about how fun and tactical shields are in the game. To recap, you take an action to raise your shield and get its Armor Class and touch Armor Class bonuses, and then you can block incoming damage with a reaction while the shield is raised. At 6th level, fighters can take the feat Shield Warden, which allows them to use their shield to block the damage taken by an adjacent ally. At 8th, they can even get an extra reaction each turn, just to use shield block one additional time. (And yes, they can spend this extra reaction on another use of Shield Warden.) At 14th level, a fighter can use their shield to protect themself from dragon's breath and fireballs, gaining their shield's bonus to Reflex saves.

The fighter also has a wide variety of options with ranged weapons, allowing you to deal more damage up close or fire more than one arrow at a time. I foresee a lot of fighters taking Debilitating Shot, which causes a foe to be slowed if the attack hits (causing it to lose one action on its next turn).

And all this is a small sample. We've made a conscious effort to give fighters a number of paths they can pursue using their feats: focusing on shields, swinging a two-handed weapon, fighting with two weapons, making ranged attacks, and fighting defensively. These paths are pretty open, allowing you to mix and match with ease to create a fighter that matches your play style.

The goal here is to give you a variety of tools to deal with the situations and encounters you are bound to face. You might walk into a fight with your bow and open with Double Shot, allowing you to fire a pair of arrows into the two nearest foes, only to swap over to using a greataxe when the rest surround you, making an attack against all enemies in your reach with Whirlwind Strike! It all comes down to the type of fighter you want to play.

Jason Bulmahn
Director of Game Design

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I like what I see here! It sounds very dynamic and fun to have all these options in combat.

Can't wait to see the next class preview.


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Strachan Fireblade wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
He does still have armor proficiency, and it does improve a bit for him, but for the fighter, we decided that weapons were his prime focus. This leaves a focus on armor for another class...
You would be referring to Paladin, yes?

I really hope not. I like being a damage dealing Paladin, I am not a fan of the sword and board defensive Paladin.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Gallyck wrote:
Noone cared about the decreased accuracy because any fighter who doesnt suck should be reliably hitting.

Even if you only need a 2 on the d20 to hit on your first attack, you do not want to take a -5 penalty in PF2. Because it eliminates over half of your criticals hits, it's a reduction of over 1/3 of your expected damage (and you also don't get to do the fun things that only happen on a critical).

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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I got to playtest a dwarf axe and shield fighter here in the office fairly recently and I enjoyed it immensely. If you happen to be familiar with some of my catalogue of 3pp products, then you can probably draw some conclusions about what it is that I personally like to see in a martial character.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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I like a lot of this, but I'm concerned at the implication that all fighters are at least Perception Experts - I was hoping skill ranks would be more customizable than that. I occasionally enjoy playing oblivious characters of all classes, and this exacerbates the issue of "everybody automatically gets better at everything" if you can't even choose to be Untrained in things.

Power Attack seems like a slow, mighty swing a la Skyrim, which is fine. I really like the free weapon ranks, shades of BECMI Weapon Mastery there, which is a system I've always liked. Quick reversal seems solid unless your game always pits you against single foes. As far as the level 14 shield thing, I'm presuming you might have a slightly better than "off the shelf" shield by then so you may be looking at +5 or so to Reflex saves for an action...could be worth it if you suspect a blast is incoming.


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Interesting, though I am not sold on AoOs requiring a feat or being a fighter now, unless there are no ways to avoid them like there were in PF1E. They are something that nearly all games have been featuring in a long time.


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HWalsh wrote:
Strachan Fireblade wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
He does still have armor proficiency, and it does improve a bit for him, but for the fighter, we decided that weapons were his prime focus. This leaves a focus on armor for another class...
You would be referring to Paladin, yes?
I really hope not. I like being a damage dealing Paladin, I am not a fan of the sword and board defensive Paladin.

Well, they did say armor rather than shield.


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I like the sound of things over-all. People mentioned things like Perception bonus as non-combat related, but I dug that it emphasized combat aspect of that skill, applying bonus to Init - except not for attempting ambushes, although applying AGAINST them.

re: Shield to Reflex Save my first thought was "Why So Late?". Not so much because that isn't a good level range for Dragons, but because it's applicable vs alot of other Stuff with Reflex Saves. Of course, sounds like they have plenty of other abilities in play, so maybe that's just where it fit into things. And plausibly a Feat would grant it earlier, and boost the effect when you 'normally' gain it later on.

EDIT: I like how reaction system was shown to be extendable, with special abilities enabling 'bonus' reactions for specific purposes. This type of development seems latent in alot of unified systems already revealed, e.g. Resonance.

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
It occurs to me that I forgot to include a mention of Reactive Shield in this blog, which is a bit of an oversight. The preview version we ran all weekend had this ability, which allows you to spend your reaction to raise your shield. You can't block with it if you use this ability (since you've already spent your reaction), unless you get the extra reaction to block.

Awesome, I was imagining something like this based on what I heard so far. Vanilla, you gamble/trade action for reaction later (and AC bonus). If you have this ability, you can still benefit from AC bonus, but you don't get the reaction because you didn't "pay for it". In other word, default is something more active and with more pay-off than P1E default shields, although with this ability (which I would be unsurprised if other armor-focused classes get, via Feat at the least) you get best of both worlds.

EDIT: I think people's questions about continuing to benefit from "Raised Shield" if you aren't immediately attacked/don't use the Reaction point out direction for potential Feat or Class Ability to enable that (probably only AC bonus, not Block, although you mentioned bonus Block reaction for some Fighters).

Noir le Lotus wrote:

The fighter is typically the entry class of lots of new players, as you can build an efficient character with only feats that give a numerical advantages (Improved Init, Weapon Focus etc ...), so the new player has only very few things to know and can learn the basics of the game easily.

This preview shows a lot of things to master, I fear new players will be a bit overhelmed by all these notions ...

Disagree. Firstly, you seem to assume newbie players undertand criteria for choosing "simpler to play" feats vs. others, but that really isn't the case in my experience. GM or others will still often help build first char-sheets for newbie players keeping in mind playability/learning curve, not much different than P1E. And sounds like Fighters will be able to better benefit from numeric bonuses without being on top of action-fu game, e.g. ignoring actions to enable reactions, they still can benefit from Shield bonus to AC.

Telefax wrote:
I am sort of sad about this, i really liked where paizo was going with grit and panache, and thought that was going to be reworked into the new fighter, instead we got the simple type one. just getting static bonuses is boring

OK, so basically exact opposite of other complaint/reaction. Maybe sign they are on right track? ;-)

Gallyck wrote:
Power attack sounds awful. It was one of the better feats in pf1 now its a shell of what it was. Extra damage die is so feast or famine. Noone cared about the decreased accuracy because any fighter who doesnt suck should be reliably hitting.

Except when Crits are based on beating AC by 10+ you DO care about accuracy. If you don't like variability, enforce automatic average rolls, doesn't really change over-all game math, only culls the margins. Paizo already did this with non-variable HP/HD, doing it for damage shouldn't break game.


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One question. Will it be possibLe to play an intelligent fighter and remain competitive?


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HWalsh wrote:
Strachan Fireblade wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
He does still have armor proficiency, and it does improve a bit for him, but for the fighter, we decided that weapons were his prime focus. This leaves a focus on armor for another class...
You would be referring to Paladin, yes?
I really hope not. I like being a damage dealing Paladin, I am not a fan of the sword and board defensive Paladin.

My thoughts exactly. I play the Paladin to destroy evil, I don't want to be forced into the tanking role.


Hmm, no info on how many skill proficiency thingies the class gets. I was hoping we'd get some insight into that, given that's been a sore point for the class in the past.


DaBombX wrote:
HWalsh wrote:
Strachan Fireblade wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
He does still have armor proficiency, and it does improve a bit for him, but for the fighter, we decided that weapons were his prime focus. This leaves a focus on armor for another class...
You would be referring to Paladin, yes?
I really hope not. I like being a damage dealing Paladin, I am not a fan of the sword and board defensive Paladin.
My thoughts exactly. I play the Paladin to destroy evil, I don't want to be forced into the tanking role.

I'm assuming that if it is the Paladin they are referring to, that it will be one option, but not the only option.


Interesting, even more the concept that shields now actually might have good general builds around them that justify using one over just 2-handing everything outside niche cases like PF1;

I find this new action based system to be quite nice, it does seem funnier to get many options on how to spend 3 equal actions.

Cant wait for the wizard and paladin, both classes that im most keen on learning more on.


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It sounds like the fighter is just different from P1e. No longer do you '5-foot step + full power attack,' it's now much more come-and-go, with power attack not being the absolute best.

That said, as someone who has done RL swordfighting with a sword-and-board style, I do not think that having to raise a shield with an action is that great, game-wise or realism-wise. Using a shield often made attacks way easier and I could pull off extra while keeping my guard up, because of the way reach, swords, and shields work. I could see it being an action to raise, but it then stays raised until you do something with it (use a Reaction to have it deflect a blow, shield bash, etc.) but even then it's easier to have the shield up than it is to drop it.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Gallyck wrote:
Noone cared about the decreased accuracy because any fighter who doesnt suck should be reliably hitting.
Even if you only need a 2 on the d20 to hit on your first attack, you do not want to take a -5 penalty in PF2. Because it eliminates over half of your criticals hits, it's a reduction of over 1/3 of your expected damage (and you also don't get to do the fun things that only happen on a critical).

I mean thats fine and all. But assuming things like weapon focus exist it still should be possible to hit 10 more than an AC if slightly optimized. Im fairly neutral on the hit by 10 or more for a crit (why fix something that isnt broke though.) If its solely just hit by 10 or more then im afraid a lot of the weapon variety will be right out since there is no reason to take a scimitar at d6 when a longsword does a d8 and they both crit at the same rate.


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2 Questions so far:

Is the -2 on AOO really required? It would be easier if you would just leave it at the regular attack modifier.

How do magic weapons and power attack add up, taking into account that both add more damage dice?


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I'm on board with taking Attacks of Opportunity out of the default rules. They have a habit of pinning the whole battlefield down in PF1, if any action more imaginative than "I hit him. With my weapon." is penalised.

It sounds like almost everything the Fighter does is in the form of feats. Which is fair, since that was mostly the case in PF1 as well. Can we get a read on:


  • Just how many feats does the Fighter get?
  • Have feat chains been curtailed so that each feat you take feels unique and powerful?
  • How many of those feats are restricted to the Fighter? Could a Ranger or Paladin take them? How about a future hybrid class?


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Leyren wrote:
How do magic weapons and power attack add up, taking into account that both add more damage dice?

One of Mark's posts clarified that one. A +1 weapon with Power Attack does three base dice.


I'm hoping the new fighter gets some unarmed options. Would they gain increased proficiency with unarmed strikes or only weapons? Any unarmed feat options? What about gauntlets? Would they count as unarmed attacks again or actual weapons?

Hoping to make a new version of Captain Andoran with unarmed + all the shield goodies.


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Another thought: I really, really hope there are ways to get more than 2 AoOs per round. I've been wanting to play a battlefield-control lockdown fighter for a while, but from the sounds of that, I'll have to get one in before PF2 comes out and that's what most PBPs are.


QuidEst wrote:
Leyren wrote:
How do magic weapons and power attack add up, taking into account that both add more damage dice?
One of Mark's posts clarified that one. A +1 weapon with Power Attack does three base dice.

Oh, I missed that one. So they're just added, not multiplied with each other. Thanks!


sadie wrote:



  • Just how many feats does the Fighter get?

As best I understand it right now, all classes get a class feat at first and every even level. It could be that only certain classes get a class feat at first level, though.

Silver Crusade

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Kate Baker wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
I am excited to play a fighter!
Yes, it looks like there will be a lot of neat options!

In the history of 3.x D&D and Pathfinder I have never before been excited to try playing a fighter.

That's huge!

Especially since I love characters who are mundane and in over their heads (Indiana Jones, Rick O'Connell, Jack Sparrow, Lara Croft etc). Usually I'd play a rogue for that, but this gives me another good option for that.

In Pathfinder if I wanted to play a "fighter" I'd go Swashbuckler, Gunslinger or Slayer because they had interesting things to do on their turns, or with their AoO's. Now every fighter has a "cool thing" to do on their turn and that's so important. Even "new player" friendly classes should be fun.


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This all sounds great, but I was sort of hoping for at least a paragraph or so on what a Fighter gets that's useful outside of combat. I'd hate for it to be a class that just doesn't bring anything non-combat to the table, which has been a problem in the past (i.e. 2 skill points per level in a class that wants to dump INT).


rooneg wrote:
This all sounds great, but I was sort of hoping for at least a paragraph or so on what a Fighter gets that's useful outside of combat. I'd hate for it to be a class that just doesn't bring anything non-combat to the table, which has been a problem in the past (i.e. 2 skill points per level in a class that wants to dump INT).

Well they mentioned Perception Mastery. Alot of these things are subjects that could fall within Blogs covering universal non-combat subsystems, like Skills, Ancestry, Religious Feats, etc. Might as well mention the range of # of Skill Ranks classes (and ancestries etc) grant whilst talking about what those can generally accomplish, rather than bring it up while not going into detail in how they actually work. Obviously all the details won't be released until playtest version is ready, which will then be adjusted for final release.


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rooneg wrote:
This all sounds great, but I was sort of hoping for at least a paragraph or so on what a Fighter gets that's useful outside of combat. I'd hate for it to be a class that just doesn't bring anything non-combat to the table, which has been a problem in the past (i.e. 2 skill points per level in a class that wants to dump INT).

I guess that kind of usefulness comes from the chosen skill proficiencies, skill feats and ancestry feats.

Let's hope there are enough skill proficiencies to distribute for everyone.

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I think everyone needs to be a little more patient when comparing PF2 feats and class abilities to PF1 versions. We don't know the underlying math of the system to be able to calibrate bench marks. Paizo has said they've rebalanced the numbers across all levels, 1-20.

I love the new design space the action economy has opened up. As soon as a saw some of the class features like Sudden Charge I knew the feats would cost actions. Same with the Reactions, you could choose ones that thematically fit your class or role.

--I wanna Vrock


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
So power attack Is a lot worse now? Since going from a flat +2/+3 somewhat scalable damage to a single random damage die amount?
Power Attack gives you one (and actually, eventually two without taking another feat to improve it!) extra damage die and does not penalize you on accuracy; and you don't want a penalty on accuracy. For a d12 two-handed weapon that might have gotten +3 damage (+3 more every 4 BAB) in PF1, that's 6.5 damage on average, going up to 13. It wasn't until BAB 16 that you would do more damage than that in PF1, and that was at a cost of -5 accuracy.

One of the biggest problems in PF with bonus die: It doesn't multiply on a critical, making it much worse than flat bonus damage. Has this at all changed in PF2?

Also I don't recall seeing "simple" weapons mentioned in the proficiency post and thought it meant classes profienct in simple weapons only now just got less proficiencies. How does that work now?

Dark Archive

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ryric wrote:

I like a lot of this, but I'm concerned at the implication that all fighters are at least Perception Experts - I was hoping skill ranks would be more customizable than that. I occasionally enjoy playing oblivious characters of all classes, and this exacerbates the issue of "everybody automatically gets better at everything" if you can't even choose to be Untrained in things.

Power Attack seems like a slow, mighty swing a la Skyrim, which is fine. I really like the free weapon ranks, shades of BECMI Weapon Mastery there, which is a system I've always liked. Quick reversal seems solid unless your game always pits you against single foes. As far as the level 14 shield thing, I'm presuming you might have a slightly better than "off the shelf" shield by then so you may be looking at +5 or so to Reflex saves for an action...could be worth it if you suspect a blast is incoming.

The Glass Cannon Podcast specifically called out that perception isn't a skill any more, it's a feature that everyone gets some level in, determined mostly by class. Since it was almost mandatory to take it in PF1, they've made it so in PF2


And if anybody doesn't like their character being Perceptive of world around them, they can choose to delay their Init and ignore features of their surroundings.


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I'm underwhelmed by this. There's no mention of out-of-combat abilities, as though that wasn't the issue with fighters. But I'm getting used to these Blog posts that give 1/4 of the story while leaving it wide open to preconceptions, misinterpretation and prejudice. Ho-hum.

Otherwise, the new Power Attack IS the old Vital Strike, which was a bit rubbish, and still is for exactly the same reasons. Don't call it Power Attack. It's not.

Getting shield bonuses to reflex at 14th level is much too late. It might as well be never. This should be available at more like 3rd level. It's not broken there because the bonus is only about +2 anyway. woot.

I've done plenty of RL sword-&-board. A shield doesn't stop you attacking, and shouldn't take an action every round to use. Actually I'm unclear on this rule - the first time I heard it I assumed that it must just be on the first round, because anything else would be silly. Can we please get a clarification?

Otherwise I'll hold off on comments until there's something concrete to comment on. This drip of partial information is frustrating.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This looks really good. I'm interested to see how the out-of-combat aspect of the Fighter will turn out, if there will be options to play a sort of "smart fighter" or "social fighter".


Neat, I think. Not sure really. I just can't understand the classes and game at large until I see an actual class chart, any one of them really. It's my base frame of reference, until then it mostly reads as gobbledygook to me. I am excited for the action system though.


Gallyck wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Gallyck wrote:
Noone cared about the decreased accuracy because any fighter who doesnt suck should be reliably hitting.
Even if you only need a 2 on the d20 to hit on your first attack, you do not want to take a -5 penalty in PF2. Because it eliminates over half of your criticals hits, it's a reduction of over 1/3 of your expected damage (and you also don't get to do the fun things that only happen on a critical).
I mean thats fine and all. But assuming things like weapon focus exist it still should be possible to hit 10 more than an AC if slightly optimized. Im fairly neutral on the hit by 10 or more for a crit (why fix something that isnt broke though.) If its solely just hit by 10 or more then im afraid a lot of the weapon variety will be right out since there is no reason to take a scimitar at d6 when a longsword does a d8 and they both crit at the same rate.

Nt saying it will, but I could see design space for a feat which opens up special features or attacks for specific weapons or types of weapons.


Mark/Jason, I'll add my name to the half dozen or more asking whether an action to ready your shield is every round or just at the beginning of combat and maintained thereafter.


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Xenocrat wrote:
Mark/Jason, I'll add my name to the half dozen or more asking whether an action to ready your shield is every round or just at the beginning of combat and maintained thereafter.

Fairly certain the Glass Cannon podcast confirmed it was every round.


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I still don't like having to spend an action (or reaction) to raise a shield.

That isn't how sword and board fighting works IRL. It is BASIC level training to keep a shield raised while you fight.

Arms do this cool thing where they can work independently of each other simultaneously.

Is it just that it is too unbalanced to allow fighters to constantly have their shields raised?

Also, I HATE limiting AoOs to just fighters by default. This allows characters to effectively say, "time out, gotta drink a potion" even though they are waist deep in orcs. Give Fighters a bonus to it, and allow everyone to do it by default.


Power Attack seems like it's going to be really useful when you want to "Full Attack" with a 2H weapon. Your options there will be:
* attack, attack at -5, attack at -10, or
* attack with power attack, attack at -5.
The second sounds *much* better than the first.

Shadow Lodge

Allirog wrote:
Neat, I think. Not sure really. I just can't understand the classes and game at large until I see an actual class chart, any one of them really. It's my base frame of reference, until then it mostly reads as gobbledygook to me. I am excited for the action system though.

There isn't a chart. Every character has things they are good or slightly better at. Everyone gets level to everything, and has anywhere from a -2 to +3 on things. Other than that there are feats that are locked behind classes, races, skills and some general feats. There isn't anything else really. It looks like class abilities will usually just increase your proficiency level, usually to the effect of +1.


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I agree with others here, some sort of preview of what a fighter can do outside combat would have been very welcome. In PF1 there have been players that basically have an attitude of 'wake me when you get to the fighty bits!', and I'm hoping that will become a thing of the past.

I want all characters to be able to have some skills that are useful outside combat without them feeling they are hurting their core competency.


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thflame wrote:

I still don't like having to spend an action (or reaction) to raise a shield.

That isn't how sword and board fighting works IRL. It is BASIC level training to keep a shield raised while you fight.

Arms do this cool thing where they can work independently of each other simultaneously.

Is it just that it is too unbalanced to allow fighters to constantly have their shields raised?

Yeah, I can only imagine that S&B fighters were doing too much damage for how much defense they get without penalizing them an action. The rule doesn't make any sense otherwise.

Sovereign Court

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thflame wrote:


Also, I HATE limiting AoOs to just fighters by default. This allows characters to effectively say, "time out, gotta drink a potion" even though they are waist deep in orcs. Give Fighters a bonus to it, and allow everyone to do it by default.

They say other Monsters will have AoOs as well... and if those orcs are fighters, they'll definitely have it.

--Vrock the Casbah!


thflame wrote:
That isn't how sword and board fighting works IRL. It is BASIC level training to keep a shield raised while you fight.

I don't think this is entirely true. While I'd agree that you'd typically have your shield raised at the start of combat, once fighting begins and something hits your shield, it's pretty common for it to get knocked out of the way, and you to have to "re-up" it. Yes, they could build in the mechanics for that, or just say you have to re-up it each round... Also, a feat that would allow the fighter to have their shield readied to start a combat (prior to their turn) doesn't seem very far-fetched...


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I too would have liked to have seem some screen real estate given to talking about improving the fighter's out of combat utility.

I'm a touch concerned about about the weapons only focus (moving armor focus to another class). Would have seen better as an archetype. Since Paladin seems like the most likely core class to receive armor mastery (or maybe cleric), but in either case that's tying armor to divine which feels a little restrictive for no reason.

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Praises

  • More interesting tactics so the fighter can handle more types of encounters. As they should!
  • Fighter can diversify into different builds. Overspecialization is one of the biggest problems with martials in PF/D&D. Being forced to stick to a single combat style gets boring very fast and cripples the class. I'm happy this is getting addressed
  • More teamwork-oriented abilities. Good because this is a team game, after all!

    Concerns

  • No narrative power. This was one of the biggest problems with fighters and most martials. Every other class type gets abilities to heavily influence the campaign narrative. The fighter still gets nothing!
  • Still can't do much outside of combat. The game has three pillars of gameplay: skill challenges, combat, and social encounters. Most classes can meaningfully contribute in at least two of the pillars. The fighter still can meaningful contribute in only one and can't do hardly anything in the others, not even in ways that make sense for a soldier-type character.
  • Many things that feel like every character should be able to do (like threaten with melee weapons) are being carved out to be feats. While it's great that every class can pick up such options, it still feels like a step back.


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    I may be one of the few dissenting voices, but I'm not feeling a lot of this. Combine with some of the data showing up on other threads and I'm starting to feel like this is not the game I'm wanting to play.

    I may be wrong, but this is looking more and more like I'll be borrowing some of the rules and keeping the books for the rare occasions I might find myself playing a PF2 only game.


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    I think people will like hearing about other reactions other classes can do ;-)


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    Point of order; what in here says that fighters won’t be able to compete in skills?

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