Fighter Class Preview

Monday, March 19, 2018

Over the past 2 weeks, we've tried to give you a sense of what Pathfinder Second Edition is all about, but now it's time to delve into some details on the classes. From now until the game releases in August, we'll go through the classes one by one, pausing now and then to look at various rules and systems. Today, let's take a look at one of the most foundational classes in the game: the fighter.

The fighter was one of the first classes we redesigned, alongside the rogue, cleric, and wizard. We knew that we wanted these four to work well in concert with each other, with the fighter taking on the role of primary combat character, good at taking damage and even better at dealing damage. The fighter has to be the best with weapons, using his class options to give him an edge with his weapons of choice. The fighter also has to be mobile, able to get into the fray quickly and hold the line, allowing less melee-oriented characters time to get into position and use their abilities without have to fend off constant attacks.

Let's start by looking at some of the features shared by all fighters.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

First up is attacks of opportunity. This feature allows you to spend your reaction to strike a creature within your reach that tries to manipulate an object (like drinking a potion), make a ranged attack, or move away from you. This attack is made with a –2 penalty, but it doesn't take the multiple attack penalty from other strikes you attempt on your turn. Other classes can get this ability—and numerous monsters will as well—but only the fighter starts with it a core feature. Fighters also have feat choices that can make their attacks of opportunity more effective.

Next up, at 3rd level, you gain weapon mastery, which increases your proficiency rank with one group of weapons to master. Your proficiency rank increases to legendary at 13th level, making you truly the best with the weapons of your choice. At 19th level, you become a legend with all simple and martial weapons!

The fighter gets a number of other buffs and increases as well, but one I want to call out in particular is battlefield surveyor, which increases your Perception proficiency rank to master (you start as an expert), and gives you an additional +1 bonus when you roll Perception for initiative, helping you be first into the fight!

As mentioned in the blog last week, the real meat behind the classes is in their feats and (as of this post), the fighter has the largest selection of feats out of all the classes in the game! Let's take a look at some.

You've probably already heard about Sudden Charge. You can pick up this feat at 1st level. When you spend two actions on it, this feat allows you to move up to twice your speed and deliver a single strike. There's no need to move in a straight line and no AC penalty—you just move and attack! This feat lets the fighter jump right into the thick of things and make an immediate impact.

Next let's take a look at Power Attack. This feat allows you to spend two actions to make a single strike that deals an extra die of damage. Instead of trading accuracy for damage (as it used to work), you now trade out an action you could have used for a far less accurate attack to get more power on a roll that is more likely to hit.

As you go up in level, some of the feats really allow you to mix things up. Take the 4th-level feat Quick Reversal, for example. If you are being flanked and you miss with your second or third attack against one of the flankers, this feat lets you redirect the attack to the other target and reroll it, possibly turning a miss into a hit!

We've talked before about how fun and tactical shields are in the game. To recap, you take an action to raise your shield and get its Armor Class and touch Armor Class bonuses, and then you can block incoming damage with a reaction while the shield is raised. At 6th level, fighters can take the feat Shield Warden, which allows them to use their shield to block the damage taken by an adjacent ally. At 8th, they can even get an extra reaction each turn, just to use shield block one additional time. (And yes, they can spend this extra reaction on another use of Shield Warden.) At 14th level, a fighter can use their shield to protect themself from dragon's breath and fireballs, gaining their shield's bonus to Reflex saves.

The fighter also has a wide variety of options with ranged weapons, allowing you to deal more damage up close or fire more than one arrow at a time. I foresee a lot of fighters taking Debilitating Shot, which causes a foe to be slowed if the attack hits (causing it to lose one action on its next turn).

And all this is a small sample. We've made a conscious effort to give fighters a number of paths they can pursue using their feats: focusing on shields, swinging a two-handed weapon, fighting with two weapons, making ranged attacks, and fighting defensively. These paths are pretty open, allowing you to mix and match with ease to create a fighter that matches your play style.

The goal here is to give you a variety of tools to deal with the situations and encounters you are bound to face. You might walk into a fight with your bow and open with Double Shot, allowing you to fire a pair of arrows into the two nearest foes, only to swap over to using a greataxe when the rest surround you, making an attack against all enemies in your reach with Whirlwind Strike! It all comes down to the type of fighter you want to play.

Jason Bulmahn
Director of Game Design

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Tags: Fighters Pathfinder Playtest Valeros Wayne Reynolds
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Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
jimthegray wrote:
Nikosandros wrote:
Serisan wrote:
Nikosandros wrote:
Do you have to take an action to raise the shield each round?
All indications so far are yes.
It seems a bit weird to me that if you don't spend an action each turn, your shield is completely useless. I wonder if a "non-raised" shield confers a minor defensive bonus that increases if you spend an action on it.

does it feel weird that if you dot spend an action to attack then your sword does nothing ?

because really this is the same idea

Not really. PF combat is somewhat abstract, it is not GURPS in which every step, dodge, block, and parry is explicitly rolled for. Furthermore, even in GURPS a shield gives a defensive bonus just for being in the way even if a character is not actively using it.


Revvy Bitterleaf wrote:

I can't believe nobody commented on the " and gives you an additional +1 bonus when you roll Perception for initiative, helping you be first into the fight!"

Does anyone else read that as roll perception instead of what we roll now for initiative?

This is what they've done in the different podcasts and stuff.

Initiative is now various skill checks depending on what you're doing right before combat starts.

The Rogue who is sneaking around uses Stealth. The Ranger who is leading the way and looking for tracks would use Survival. The Fighter and Wizard who are just walking around would use perception.

Scarab Sages

Ninja in the Rye wrote:
Revvy Bitterleaf wrote:

I can't believe nobody commented on the " and gives you an additional +1 bonus when you roll Perception for initiative, helping you be first into the fight!"

Does anyone else read that as roll perception instead of what we roll now for initiative?

This is what they've done in the different podcasts and stuff.

Initiative is now various skill checks depending on what you're doing right before combat starts.

The Rogue who is sneaking around uses Stealth. The Ranger who is leading the way and looking for tracks would use Survival. The Fighter and Wizard who are just walking around would use perception.

Totally missed that before, guess that's why it surprised me but nobody else (guess I failed my perception checks before...)


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When the game comes out, people will run the math and all, but does it even matter so much?

PA is just damage. Even if it sucks, then something else will be the best option. Just pick that instead.

With that said, personally i dont find rolling more dices funnier than having one dice and multiple static bonus.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
master_marshmallow wrote:
You can think it's silly, but please don't call me or my playstyle dumb.

Wow.

I'm guessing that right doesn't apply to - checks back a couple pages - "Joe Schmuck". Or any of the actual players for whom he is a stand-in.

(Lest my observation obscure the good point here, I agree with what you're saying. I'd like that same respect to apply to everyone. On all sides.)


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Micheal Smith wrote:
Bodhizen wrote:
My single greatest concern is the lack of any mention of Fighters having greater narrative power than they did in First Edition. Can we please get a response to this concern?

Then the Fighter is not your class. They don't need any NARRATIVE power. They are a COMBATIVE CLASS. They fight. At most I can see is maybe doing something with intimidate. Other than than I don't think they need any. If you want it that bad then dip in to classes that give it.

The response is either there is none or wait till the playlets comes out and see the full CLASS.

Every class in PF2 will (hopefully) be effective in battle - in which case, why should some classes get to be good everywhere and some be good only in combat? Hopefully all classes will be useful out of combat, whether those abilities come from the class itself or from some other source; maybe through first-aid, athletic prowess, social skills, leadership abilities, monster knowledge skills, engineering/smithing abilities, tracking/perception/trapfinding, magical item usage...

There's no reason a Fighter couldn't be good at some of those things.

Silver Crusade

I wonder, Combat Stamina was a thing they was suggested to be given to Fighters, I wonder if they'll do it to PF2.

Or in the interest of keeping it beginner friendly, they could push it into an archetype or a feat. Though I feel if it was core, it would see better support and could be expanded better.


I'm a bit underwhelmed, but then this is the Fighter.

*At first level, APART FROM FEATS (which are understandably, a HUGE ENGINE) the Fighter can....AoO. Not very exciting. Personally I like AoO's, but wasn't the PF1 Beginner Box devoid of AoO's as being added and unnecessary complicatoria? If the situational-ness of AoO's was extended (srsly, how many bugbear ravers are going to be downing potions nearby) then it might be more exciting.

* The rest of the blog tells me great things the Fighter gets at higher and higher levels. Sure, part of the design goal of PF2 is to "fix" higher level play, but still, I don't want to wait more and more to get cool stuff. Or never get it if the game is low level.

* Some folk don't see "narrative" in the same way. I understand it to mean active or meaningful options within combat beyond i-hit-it-with-my-sword-and-bored. I'm actually not seeing anything that says the Fighter doesn't have meaningful narrative options, so that is a plus.

* On the whole I'm more and more disappointed by the approach of the blogposts - Paizo know the fanbase - everytime they hit Submit Blog when the blog is this opaque and half-fed they must know they are dividing the fanbase - the loyalists to PF2 (who genuinely like the changes whether/regardless they like Paizo or PF1) and the disappointees (who might or might not genuinely dislike PF1 or Paizo). A little more open please - actual examples rather than "here's a morsel - worry it out between yourselves on the boards to the point at which folk are telling each other they don't like each other rather than their playstyle, point of view or stat generation method". I am laying that at Paizo's door, and they may refute it if they like, or shift blame to individual posters. Which I would also agree with.

* Responding to comments: Not sure how AoO's won't be so commonplace if EVERY Fighter gets them. Sure there might not be a Fighter, but then with only a dozen classes at inception, and the Fighter being a go to for lots of players, maybe there will?


HWalsh wrote:

What do you want eh?

Do you want to be able to punch so hard that you break reality? Cut a hole in space time? Be reasonable.

With Ethereal Weapon Enchant and Resonance expenditure? What Proficiency Level? Maybe with Planar Lore requirement too.

Revvy Bitterleaf wrote:

I can't believe nobody commented on the "and gives you an additional +1 bonus when you roll Perception for initiative, helping you be first into the fight!"

Does anyone else read that as roll perception instead of what we roll now for initiative?

Yeah, and AFAIK you use Stealth for Init if ambushing, although Fighter bonus doesn't apply to that (although applies when somebody tries to ambush YOU).


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
RPG System mastery is the most useless thing to take personal pride in.

Not as a GM, since it literally allows you to do your job better for your players. Nothing is more frustrating in a game for everybody than when I have to pick up the rulebook for five minutes and interrupt the flow of the story/combat, because it's "how does overrun work again?" time.


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magnuskn wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
RPG System mastery is the most useless thing to take personal pride in.
Not as a GM, since it literally allows you to do your job better for your players. Nothing is more frustrating in a game for everybody than when I have to pick up the rulebook for five minutes and interrupt the flow of the story/combat, because it's "how does overrun work again?" time.

just hand the book to a player to look it up while you continue to GM and keep the flow..uh..flowing

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
magnuskn wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
RPG System mastery is the most useless thing to take personal pride in.
Not as a GM, since it literally allows you to do your job better for your players. Nothing is more frustrating in a game for everybody than when I have to pick up the rulebook for five minutes and interrupt the flow of the story/combat, because it's "how does overrun work again?" time.

The Rules are the least important part of being a good GM.

You can be a good GM and leave game mastery to a player. In fact we’ve done this multiple times in my groups.

The important part of being a GM is being a fan of your players, a willingness to run the game, and the ability to improvise and adapt to player choice.


I mean all that stuff certainly helps imo.


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
It occurs to me that I forgot to include a mention of Reactive Shield in this blog, which is a bit of an oversight. The preview version we ran all weekend had this ability, which allows you to spend your reaction to raise your shield. You can't block with it if you use this ability (since you've already spent your reaction), unless you get the extra reaction to block. I may try and get an edit in there to add a note about this.

I really like this - its starting to build up to a picture of fighters getting real choices to make during combats (instead of everything being selected by your choice of feats and weapon)

Based on what Jason has just said, a sword and shield fighter standing next to a couple of opponents now has a bunch of choices to make
1) make 2 attacks and raise his shield, then block #1 if he hits
2) make 2 attacks, raise shield, save the block for #2 because I worry about his damage more
3) make 2 attacks, raise shield for the AC but save the reaction for an attack of opportunity in case #2 decides to break off from me to attack my wizard friend, block #2 if he does stay on me
4) trust in my armour alone and make 3 attacks, save the reaction for an attack of opportunity
5) make 3 attacks, raise my shield if one of them does attack me...

I love that fighters might get that level of choices to make each turn


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:


The Rules are the least important part of being a good GM.

You can be a good GM and leave game mastery to a player. In fact we’ve done this multiple times in my groups.

The important part of being a GM is being a fan of your players, a willingness to run the game, and the ability to improvise and adapt to player choice.

I... uh... I'm...Did we just agree on something?


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Hythlodeus wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:


The Rules are the least important part of being a good GM.

You can be a good GM and leave game mastery to a player. In fact we’ve done this multiple times in my groups.

The important part of being a GM is being a fan of your players, a willingness to run the game, and the ability to improvise and adapt to player choice.

I... uh... I'm...Did we just agree on something?

Don't be silly people can't agree on things. Keep arguing back and forth if it lasts for more then 4 hours call a doctor.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hythlodeus wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:


The Rules are the least important part of being a good GM.

You can be a good GM and leave game mastery to a player. In fact we’ve done this multiple times in my groups.

The important part of being a GM is being a fan of your players, a willingness to run the game, and the ability to improvise and adapt to player choice.

I... uh... I'm...Did we just agree on something?

This isn't the first post of yours I've favorited Hythlodeus.

I like Pathfinder, there's a reason I stuck with it even after D&D 5e came out.

However, to my point of view there's no point in doing a new edition if it's just the same game again. I have that game, I can patch that game myself, with unchained rules and e6 and all those other things.

So when I see new ways of doing things, I'm excited, and of course I have reservations (why do potions take up resonance?) but there is literally no point getting emotional, or demanding about it. When the full playtest is released, then I'll give playtest feedback. Because until then all I can offer is speculation :)


Hythlodeus wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
RPG System mastery is the most useless thing to take personal pride in.
Not as a GM, since it literally allows you to do your job better for your players. Nothing is more frustrating in a game for everybody than when I have to pick up the rulebook for five minutes and interrupt the flow of the story/combat, because it's "how does overrun work again?" time.
just hand the book to a player to look it up while you continue to GM and keep the flow..uh..flowing

What does continuing to GM involve in this situation? If we're looking up how the ability works, I'd normally freeze time until we find out.


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A few comments:

Out of combat utility seems to come mainly from the Skills and the General Feats. I supposed that’s where come from the Barbarian support that heals, and I believe that the Fighter will probably has a lots of feat spaçe to go the same road if he wants.

We can probably exp3ct some kind of action for each set of weapons like targeting or striking with a strong blow so I think the raise shield action is for balance purpose. And don’t forget it works on touch AC too


I'm curious what the other classes get to do as Reactions.

Sorcerer or Wizard- Counterspelling?
Cleric - Healing an adjacent ally that took damage?
Barbarian - Sunder when item is used or Shield is readied?
Rogue - Feint when attacked? Steal when item is used?


Matthew Downie wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
RPG System mastery is the most useless thing to take personal pride in.
Not as a GM, since it literally allows you to do your job better for your players. Nothing is more frustrating in a game for everybody than when I have to pick up the rulebook for five minutes and interrupt the flow of the story/combat, because it's "how does overrun work again?" time.
just hand the book to a player to look it up while you continue to GM and keep the flow..uh..flowing
What does continuing to GM involve in this situation? If we're looking up how the ability works, I'd normally freeze time until we find out.

that depends on your GM style really. Or on the flow. You could describe said action while someone else is figuring out the game mechanics or you could move to the next player's turn while making it clear that ther might be wriggle room, depending on the outcome of whatever is looked up right now. point is: you don't have to take a break from gaming everytime something has to be looked up


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Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
^^that is what I keep saying. simply not enough information out their yet.

And we get that. To be honest, we are still hard at work wrapping up the current draft and getting it ready to print. We knew we had to give you an idea of the direction of the game, but we just do not have the time needed to absorb all of the feedback that a full release would invite.

It's a price we have to pay. An incomplete picture is better for most than total silence until release.

While I happen to be largely positive as to what's been shown so far, I almost wish you did keep it under wraps till release.

Having so many people clamoring about, "My napkin math/gut feeling (having been given only half of one single variable in the equation) show conclusively that old is better than new and new can never work." basically turns my forum reading experience into, "Is the post written by Paizo staff? No? Avert gaze to avoid no-save sanity damage."


Leyren wrote:

I'm curious what the other classes get to do as Reactions.

Rogue - Feint when attacked? Steal when item is used?

Evasion. If a spell is thrown as an AoE, the Rogues reaction is to move outside that AoE.


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Remy P Gilbeau wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
^^that is what I keep saying. simply not enough information out their yet.

And we get that. To be honest, we are still hard at work wrapping up the current draft and getting it ready to print. We knew we had to give you an idea of the direction of the game, but we just do not have the time needed to absorb all of the feedback that a full release would invite.

It's a price we have to pay. An incomplete picture is better for most than total silence until release.

While I happen to be largely positive as to what's been shown so far, I almost wish you did keep it under wraps till release.

Having so many people clamoring about, "My napkin math/gut feeling (having been given only half of one single variable in the equation) show conclusively that old is better than new and new can never work." basically turns my forum reading experience into, "Is the post written by Paizo staff? No? Avert gaze to avoid no-save sanity damage."

Gah I relate to this post so hard. I do actually kind of enjoy searching through for the devs posts at least.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hythlodeus wrote:


just hand the book to a player to look it up while you continue to GM and keep the flow..uh..flowing

Yeah, uh, no. If the current action of an PC is "I try to push the guy aside and run past him", then the game stops until someone (i.e. me) has figured out how Overrun works again. This stops the game, no matter what. No, you can't just "describe" the action, given that there is a need to know if the action succeeds.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

The Rules are the least important part of being a good GM.

You can be a good GM and leave game mastery to a player. In fact we’ve done this multiple times in my groups.

The important part of being a GM is being a fan of your players, a willingness to run the game, and the ability to improvise and adapt to player choice.

While the parts you mentioned in your last paragraph are important, you as the GM are also the guy people look to when there is a rule decision to be made. That requires system mastery. Also, it helps defend against rules lawyers and players who only read half of a spell description and make wild claims what they can do. ^^


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magnuskn wrote:
Also, it helps defend against rules lawyers

there is literally no need to defend against them, since they are not your enemies. use their knowledge, give them that book to look up the solution to your problem. when in doubt, ask them questions. you're all in this group together

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Yeah, the rules encyclopedia doesn't need to be the GM. The GM just needs to be able to reference, whether that is referencing the books or referencing the rules guru.

Silver Crusade

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I could not tell you how an overrun works off hand. I’d just ask for a CMB check vs CMD and move on. Before any spellcasters turn in my game I expect the player to bring up the rules of the spell (usually a simple search in d20pfsrd can do it).

In the moment it’s usually better just to make a call and move on, you can always look it up after the game.


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Quote:
...which increases your Perception proficiency rank to master (you start as an expert), and gives you...

This is an incorrect usage of the Oxford comma, there should be no comma before 'and' in this case.


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Wild Spirit wrote:
This is an incorrect usage of the Oxford comma, there should be no comma before 'and' in this case.

This is an incorrect usage of grammar pedantry; it clutters up an already cluttered thread with information no-one needs to know.

Also, it's a run-on sentence.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hythlodeus wrote:
there is literally no need to defend against them, since they are not your enemies. use their knowledge, give them that book to look up the solution to your problem. when in doubt, ask them questions. you're all in this group together

If you have a guy who lacks the self introspection to see that his powergaming is harming the campaign and despite years and years of telling him so he still doesn't get it, yeah, then you need to "defend" yourself against it, for the integrity of your campaign. And, no, there is no option to throw him out of the group, since otherwise he is a very decent human being and a good friend.

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Yeah, the rules encyclopedia doesn't need to be the GM. The GM just needs to be able to reference, whether that is referencing the books or referencing the rules guru.

Oh, okay, so you still need rules mastery, only now you can choose to do it yourself or burden it on someone else. Gotcha. :)


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Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
^^that is what I keep saying. simply not enough information out their yet.

And we get that. To be honest, we are still hard at work wrapping up the current draft and getting it ready to print. We knew we had to give you an idea of the direction of the game, but we just do not have the time needed to absorb all of the feedback that a full release would invite.

It's a price we have to pay. An incomplete picture is better for most than total silence until release.

If it's getting ready to print, release the PDF early, maybe at Paizo Con! Haha! :D

Sovereign Court

I wonder if when using the shield, you only need an action to reset if you used your reaction to block damage, otherwise it is still up and ready.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
magnuskn wrote:
Oh, okay, so you still need rules mastery, only now you can choose to do it yourself or burden it on someone else. Gotcha. :)

Or you can not worry so damn much about following the letter of the rules when it gets in the way.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Oh, okay, so you still need rules mastery, only now you can choose to do it yourself or burden it on someone else. Gotcha. :)
Or you can not worry so damn much about following the letter of the rules when it gets in the way.

If I want to play magical tea party, then I can do it in systems better suited for that playstyle.

Grand Lodge

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Then please do.


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magnuskn wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Oh, okay, so you still need rules mastery, only now you can choose to do it yourself or burden it on someone else. Gotcha. :)
Or you can not worry so damn much about following the letter of the rules when it gets in the way.
If I want to play magical tea party, then I can do it in systems better suited for that playstyle.

Pony finder?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Then please do.

I guess we reached the "TOZ temper tantrum" stage of the discussion.


magnuskn wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Oh, okay, so you still need rules mastery, only now you can choose to do it yourself or burden it on someone else. Gotcha. :)
Or you can not worry so damn much about following the letter of the rules when it gets in the way.
If I want to play magical tea party, then I can do it in systems better suited for that playstyle.

you can play magical tea party in any system you want, we won't judge you as long as dice are involved

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
magnuskn wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Then please do.
I guess we reached the "TOZ temper tantrum" stage of the discussion.

Nah, I'm just covering night shift today and tomorrow and tired from failing to get my schedule flipped.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Then please do.
I guess we reached the "TOZ temper tantrum" stage of the discussion.
Nah, I'm just covering night shift today and tomorrow and tired from failing to get my schedule flipped.

Ugh, don't I know that feeling. Sorry for the snark, then.

Grand Lodge

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I'm really trying not to participate in the 2E discussions, since they always rub me the wrong way, but sometimes I slip. Not your fault.


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You guys handled that so well so proud of you. The whole conversation is still probably being deleted however.

Shadow Lodge

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Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.


The math is bugging me. An extra d12 averages 6.5 while power attack gave an extra 18 damage by the end.

All concerns about accuracy are moot, you game the system to work around the accuracy penalties.


I mean It probably shouldn't be as good as PF1 power attack anyways. That feat was a no Duh option which makes it not an option then people complain about feat taxes etc.


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What if a non-ready shield (not spending an action) just gives you your proficiency bonus (-2 to +3)?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

I really like how this is all shaping up. The changes sound very interesting to me and Im looking forward to seeing how this feels on the table top. The more I see the more im excited for whats coming.


Can anybody give me an actual example of how two weapon fighting is going to work in the play test? Has anybody on the dev team or in a podcast mentioned it? Or bows? I think Gorbacz asked about bows in another thread much earlier on - can you shoot with every action? Or how about a crossbow? Is the base shoot, load shoot, then load shoot load, then shoot load shoot etc?


MR. H wrote:

The math is bugging me. An extra d12 averages 6.5 while power attack gave an extra 18 damage by the end.

All concerns about accuracy are moot, you game the system to work around the accuracy penalties.

It becomes 2 dice at some point, I think that was mentioned in one of the first pages. And the extra accuracy gives you a much better chance to crit in this system.

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