FAQ on Errata

CalebTGordan wrote:

I don't understand these gunslinger above 6th level comments. What am I missing?

Many player seem to feel that the class doesn't offer anything worth spending the levels on past six now. Apparently further changes to signature deed and reload speeds cause this trend of comment.

Is it still possible to reload a pistol as a free action with the class/feat/alchemical bonuses? As long as that's possible, I don't really see the 'omg it ends at 5 now' complaints.

Torbyne wrote:

CalebTGordan wrote:

I don't understand these gunslinger above 6th level comments. What am I missing?

Many player seem to feel that the class doesn't offer anything worth spending the levels on past six now. Apparently further changes to signature deed and reload speeds cause this trend of comment.

Is it still possible to reload a pistol as a free action with the class/feat/alchemical bonuses? As long as that's possible, I don't really see the 'omg it ends at 5 now' complaints.

Using alchemical rounds/rapid reload, yeah.

But the problem is the opportunity cost for staying in past 5th level is too high. There's really nothing at all that's too valuable for staying in any longer, while as a martial class, the gunslinger is VERY dip friendly. Going GS 5 and then any combination of other classes is an entirely viable way of building your character, as well as getting tons of bonus feats and other abilities that only help out your class FAR more than more nimble and such.

Many combination of other classes added onto the GS 5 frame will make a better gunslinger than GS 6+ in the long hall, since really all the GS needs after 5th level is feats. Sure, you could go Trench Fighter 3, but this poses 3 problems:

1. Trench Fighter isn't proficient with firearms (moot point for most games that would allow it, sure) making it a problem.

2. Most games won't allow it since it works under the estimation of a 1900's era game, which most games do not. Even if they do, we reach the third problem...

3. You can't dip other fighter archetypes/no musket master reloading. Fighter 2/3 (for weapon master) is such a great GS multiclass that losing it to get dex to damage 2 levels earlier can feel like a waste to some, myself included.

As an aside, Trench Fighter 3 also won't work for the best archetype for the GS either, the Bolt Ace, which means BA 5 is vital to making crossbows work.

Overall, you can still play a GS past 5th level, but for those looking for the most possible offense out of the class, GS 6+ isn't a strong choice to make. It was only Musket Master's ability to drop misfire and Signature Deed that made GS +6 a solid option, and with a lot of the better deeds no longer allowed to work with it, as well as Sig Deed's nerf, it's lost a lot of its mid to late game luster.

Torbyne wrote:

CalebTGordan wrote:

I don't understand these gunslinger above 6th level comments. What am I missing?

Many player seem to feel that the class doesn't offer anything worth spending the levels on past six now. Apparently further changes to signature deed and reload speeds cause this trend of comment.

Is it still possible to reload a pistol as a free action with the class/feat/alchemical bonuses? As long as that's possible, I don't really see the 'omg it ends at 5 now' complaints.

The problem is that the Gunslinger falls into the same problem as a Fighter: it's really awesome upfront but quickly loses a lot of its "wow" factor because almost all of its abilities are scaling effects or Feat choices (going in the order of "Deeds > Bonus Feat > Gun Training X > Nimble +X" from level 3 onward).

The 1st and 3rd level deeds are by FAR the most-useful; Gun Training is a nice boost but overall too weak to rely on as a main feature; Nimble is pretty much the same as Gun Training

The reason people are going "not worth playing past lv5/lv6" is that, prior to this, you could at least look forward to making your favorite Deed into a free one if you got to lv10. Now, however, every really-awesome Deed WORTH reducing with Signature Deed has been given the "cost cannot be reduced" tag.

As a result, you can build a SIGNIFICANTLY more effective and interesting character by only using 1-6 levels of Gunslinger as the base and then multiclassing from there than you can taking the Gunslinger to lv12/20. Many firearm-based builds ALREADY take Gunslinger as only a single-level dip BECAUSE everything that you need to be an effective firearms character is gained at lv1 already.

I'm personally not a fan of Gunslingers, but I hope Paizo reconsiders the Signature Deed change. While only using grit abilities that are free is pretty lame, Signature Deed felt like a good feat overall.

Or perhaps Gunslinger feels like a lame class after a point. I REALLY like the Grit and Panache feature, but it kind of feels like Sneak Attack. 'Yeah, I have Sneak Attack. When am I going to get a class feature that actually feels new instead of improving an old one.'

Same can probably be said of Swashbuckler and a bunch more martial classes that don't have evolving feat-like options (Rage Powers, for example) or a longer progression of class features (Cavalier may fit here).

I think my new favorite combo is GS5 and then Inquisitor after.

I don't know.

At 6 you get +1 AC.
At 7 you can render any one opponent flatfooted, no save, no to hit, no nothing. Yeah, it doesn't help you, but it can let your friends really go to town with power attack and sneak attack and manuevering for one round. Or for a touch attack, you can auto disarm or auto trip.
At 8 you get a free feat, that is pretty nice.
At 9 you get gun training 2, which is great if you use more than one type of firearm and aren't a pistolero or musket master (oh wait, no one is...)

Swinging out at lvl 6 is quite viable, but honestly, so is staying in. It won't make you quite as good a DPR monster, but it will make you more useful to your friends.

More useful to your friends than taking levels in Sorceror? Oracle? Wizard? Arcanist? Bard?

A lot of classes seem to have awesome stuff up front but run out of ideas down the line. I mean are you really going to stick with rogue from level 5 to 10 for advanced talents that you may never get to use before the campaign goes poof?

I don't know.

At 6 you get +1 AC.
At 7 you can render any one opponent flatfooted, no save, no to hit, no nothing. Yeah, it doesn't help you, but it can let your friends really go to town with power attack and sneak attack and manuevering for one round. Or for a touch attack, you can auto disarm or auto trip.
At 8 you get a free feat, that is pretty nice.
At 9 you get gun training 2, which is great if you use more than one type of firearm and aren't a pistolero or musket master (oh wait, no one is...)

Swinging out at lvl 6 is quite viable, but honestly, so is staying in. It won't make you quite as good a DPR monster, but it will make you more useful to your friends.

The problem is, ALL you get is a meager +1 to AC; take a level in Urban Barbarian and you can Rage to get a major boost to Dex; take a level in Alchemist can you can get Mutagen to pump Dex AND get Bombs; take a level in Luring Cavalier and you can get Ranged Challenge, a Mount, and Tactician; take a level in Guide Ranger, and you can get Ranger's Focus; take a level in Paladin and you gain Smite...

Staying in from lv6 onward nets you as much versatility and cool abilities as a Fighter, which is to say "not much".

As I said, the big problem is that the Gunslinger stops getting NEW abilities after lv6; from there on, everything is a Scaling ability or more Deeds which aren't as cool as the Deeds you gained from lv1 and lv3.

It's pretty simple.
First, perfect balance is impossible.

Hi, this is trivially proven false. Also, your example of rock paper scissors shows that some people player better than others at a game, not that the balance is not perfect

I don't know.

At 6 you get +1 AC.

So you get the doge feat, *shrug*

At 7 you can render any one opponent flatfooted, no save, no to hit, no nothing. Yeah, it doesn't help you, but it can let your friends really go to town with power attack and sneak attack and manuevering for one round. Or for a touch attack, you can auto disarm or auto trip.
At 8 you get a free feat, that is pretty nice.

so you get the ability to feint, which you always had anyway, and pumped manuevers as a fullround action about 3 times a day(which is nice, but not even close to a dealbreaker)

At 9 you get gun training 2, which is great if you use more than one type of firearm and aren't a pistolero or musket master (oh wait, no one is...)

level 9 is kind of a dead level for most gunslingers yeah

Swinging out at lvl 6 is quite viable, but honestly, so is staying in. It won't make you quite as good a DPR monster, but it will make you more useful to your friends.

Im pretty sure 4 levels on a fullcaster makes you more useful for your friends, but thats me

First, perfect balance is impossible. You can see that with rock-paper-scissors, where there are three options and three outcomes: tie, win, and lose. It should be balanced. However, the same individuals have won RPS tournaments statistically improbable numbers of times. Because the game does not exist in a vacuum.

And Pathfinder is incredibly more complex than RPS.

RPS actually involves a lot of game theory and psychology. See this article for something brief about it.

Perfect asymmetric balance may not be possible, just because a game as simple as RPS is still incredibly complex. That's a poor argument to not try, though.

Taking the rest in Bard or something is a better bet than a full caster I think.

Or, hell, there's really no reason for any Gunslinger to NOT migrate to Grand Marshal after 5th.

Auto success feint that works on *everything*, which you did not always have.

A lot of those multi classes are very nice. Alchemist will give you +2 to dex. For one or maybe two fights per day. Paladin will get you *a* smite. A level one mount? I guess if you run cavalier up till you get expert trainer and horse master feat, that would help. but otherwise a mount that far behind the curve is very limited. (Maybe take boon companion, then retrain it to horse master.)

I feel like a lot of the people saying 6+ gunslinger is underwhelming are theorycrafting around a 15 minute adventure day.

I am not saying there aren't very nice options after 5+, just saying that there are still some nice things for staying in.

Rynjin, do you mean Shieldmarshal? There is no such class as grand marshal.

FLite, the Grand Marshal is the non-IP version of the Shield Marshal that d20pfsrd hosts.

Auto success feint that works on *everything*, which you did not always have.

A lot of those multi classes are very nice. Alchemist will give you +2 to dex. For one or maybe two fights per day. Paladin will get you *a* smite. A level one mount? I guess if you run cavalier up till you get expert trainer and horse master feat, that would help. but otherwise a mount that far behind the curve is very limited. (Maybe take boon companion, then retrain it to horse master.)

I feel like a lot of the people saying 6+ gunslinger is underwhelming are theorycrafting around a 15 minute adventure day.

I am not saying there aren't very nice options after 5+, just saying that there are still some nice things for staying in.

Rynjin, do you mean Shieldmarshal? There is no such class as grand marshal.

Grand marshal is also shield marshal on the PFSRD.

And really, you're not looking at the normal dips. Fighter 2 gives 2 feats (3 for unbreakable), full armor, and if you went lore warden, you can pick up combat expertise for free too, not to mention weapon master 3 for being able to use fighter mittens.

Monk 2 can give tons of useful feats too, great save bonuses, and tons of other benefits.

Same for Swash 2, giving a stacking source of grit as well as opportune parry and such is always great.

Most of the best dips are for extra feats, something ranged always needs. GS 6 isn't terrible, but it's also not worth it if you're looking to build the most optimal slinger.

A lot of those multi classes are very nice. Alchemist will give you +2 to dex. For one or maybe two fights per day.

You serious? Mutagen lasts 10 minutes per level, and you can brew another given an hour of downtime. 10 minutes is long enough for 2-3 combat, and that's just at 1st level.

A Gunslinger 5/Alchemist X will get plenty of Mutagen as he levels.

I think my new favorite combo is GS5 and then Inquisitor after.

My first gunslinger ended up GS7, Inq6. Bane is an amazing thing.

the new changes to MoMS also seem to really make the capstone ability sorta lackluster. being able to have five active styles doesnt mean a whole lot if you dont have the feats to make that a viable choice.

Im pretty sure 4 levels on a fullcaster makes you more useful for your friends, but thats me

For which non spellcaster martials is this not the case?

Note: For my personal campaign, barbarians are considered "arcane", because bloodrager powers and spell sunder.

For the changes to the Unarmed Fighter, it appears that changes made to Takedown should have been made to Eye Gouge instead. Weapon Training 3 is still replaced twice (the modified Weapon Training and Eye Gouge), while Armor Training 3 is not used anywhere (used to be replaced with Takedown).

I'd imagine the better fit would have been to leave Takedown alone (active at lvl 11 and replacing Armor Training 3), and have Eye Gouge moved to lvl 14 to replace that bonus feat.

Edit: formatting

There's more encouragement to stick with MoMS now than there was before, but after playing around with theoretical builds a little I think that bailing out after the 2 level dip still looks pretty appealing. Maybe removing the prereqs besides Monk level for feats in the wildcard slots would be enough to tempt more folks to stick with MoMS levels though. I haven't thought of any particularly overpowered combos that it would allow yet since it isn't like there would be early entry - maybe you'd save a feat or two and some skill ranks though for styles like Boar and Snake you really need the skill ranks to get the most out of the style...doesn't seem too extreme to me...

Anyhow, those are just some thoughts. I'm personally not a foe of multiclassing and don't see why sticking with a single class should always need to be better than mixing several together. Delaying too many of the benefits of a class or archetype until high levels would punish everybody, not just level dippers. Once you've got 4-6 levels into a class that seems like a pretty significant investment to me though. I wouldn't consider Gunslinger 5 and then finishing off with other levels to be plundering Gunslinger any more than I would Paladin 4 with Oath of Vengeance and then other levels to be plundering Paladin. I suppose you could push out the big Smite Evil power from Oath of Vengeance a few levels to stop us dippers, but then the "real" Paladins would suffer too.

As far as Mutagens go it could be tough to beat Mutation Warrior 4 as a buff and bonus feat package, and it doesn't even stop you from participating in the extremely popular Barbarian 2 or 4 programs. I guess that multiclassing flexibility is one of the strengths of martial classes (or perhaps one of the weaknesses depending on how you feel about it)

Well, since the evolution is granted by picking Protean itself, GMs may be willing to consider it qualified.

Fortunately, a recent archetype means Protean is no longer locked into just one form.

That's a beautiful archetype and I think it's going to be the basis of my next Summoner. Bought the book, pondering build options. Switching base forms is going to work really well with Evolution Surge. I'd call it a shame that arguably the best approach for Proteans is to switch out their base form, but this archetype feels more like a marriage of fluff and mechanics than their original Unchained entry.

Scavion wrote:

Ehhhh, I'd wager most folks have banned the original summoner but most especially the master summoner.

For all my love of the APG summoner, I've seen better acceptance of the master summoner than the synthesist. Go figure.

The difference is in the feel. Master Summoners start off feeling like their vanilla form, and the Eidolon (the thing that bothers most naysayers of the class) is significantly weaker. While the Synth is actually slightly weaker thanks to less actions and a shallow skill pool, it FEELS more broken. It's the combined hit point pools and the ability to turn 7/7/7/14/16/18 into 16/12/13/14/16/18 that all stand out. Nobody remembers an extra pack of Archon Hounds, but everybody remembers the guy with the 40+ point buy stat spread.

Jester David wrote:

It's pretty simple.

First, perfect balance is impossible.

Hi, this is trivially proven false. Also, your example of rock paper scissors shows that some people player better than others at a game, not that the balance is not perfect

So as long as people don't play, then the balance is perfect. Which is the problem, because the perfect balance is only theoretical and has no bearing in reality. Once people get involved, perfect balance goes out the window.

You are also ignoring the increase in tools the DM has if given more options to pick from in what he allows in his game.

This doesn't apply if

You are also ignoring that more options shifts the power of the middle players more than the top players.

In theory, there's no shift, as middle players will also take inferiour options and any increase in power will be offset by the trap choices. In practice, that seldom happens as players communicate and help informed decisions to be made.

Yes, some things synergize really well, and finding those connections is a fun part of the game that can yield interesting results.

And there's the "fun" argument. It's not a problem because some people find it fun.

Nobody remembers an extra pack of Archon Hounds, but everybody remembers the guy with the 40+ point buy stat spread.

Consider that some groups run at close to 40 point buy characters anyway.

Rosc wrote:

Nobody remembers an extra pack of Archon Hounds, but everybody remembers the guy with the 40+ point buy stat spread.

Consider that some groups run at close to 40 point buy characters anyway.

Well, using Rosc's stats...

7/7/7/14/16/18 (20 point buy)
goes to
16/13/12/14/16/18 (47 point buy)

Or, if you're running at ~40 point buy anyway...
7/7/7/18/18/18 (39 point buy)
goes to
16/13/12/18/18/18 (66 point buy)

Still looks like a problem.

You misunderstand. People don't use a 40 point buy. They roll characters that are near 40 point buy. It'd take a long time to roll 3 18s.

What you seem to be arguing is that the synthesist is broken if you use point buy instead of stat rolling.

You misunderstand. People don't use a 40 point buy. They roll characters that are near 40 point buy. It'd take a long time to roll 3 18s.

That's fair.

What you seem to be arguing is that the synthesist is broken if you use point buy instead of stat rolling.

Eh, close, but not quite.

If you're rolling straight down the line, I'd agree. But if you have any ability to put stats where you want, whether that's through point buy or rolling an array, you still get to essentially ignore three stats.

In point buy you see this by going from a 20 point buy to essentially a 32 point buy, then replacing your dumped physical stats with your Eidolon's. When rolling stats, you're basically rolling 6 times and keeping the best 3.

The problem is that it lets you significantly change how you approach stat allocation, no matter the method. Everyone else has incentive to dump generally no more than 1 stat in point buy, or spread out their rolls as best as they can, even if it leaves something (like their Intelligence for skill points or Wisdom for Will saves) lower than they'd really prefer.

The Synthesist just doesn't care at all what his physical stats are, because they're just going to be replaced. 18/18/18/18/18/18 isn't really any different than 7/7/7/18/18/18 -- the first three scores are going to get replaced regardless. (That's a 63 point buy swing, by the way.)

...The Synthesist just doesn't care at all what his physical stats are.

This is why I houserule that the synthesist changes are always temporary bonuses - thus, they don't qualify for feats if they try to completely dump their physical stats. It seems to work well enough that I question whether that was always the intention.

Ok, so this only took me 5 tries using a die roller. 4d6 drop the lowest, reroll 1s.

14/12/10/15/16/17= 37 point buy.

Synthesist goes to:
16/13/12/15/16/17= 45 point buy.

The 18/18/18/18/18/18 example is a little extreme, but I agree with pretty much everything about that, ZZTR. A special note that normal summon monster spells also come with their own statblocks, ensuring a Summoner of any type can operate well enough on even a 0 point buy system.

And I once ran a game with a rule that allowed free stat rerolls if they added up to below a 20 point buy threshold. Even THAT took forever and a day for everybody to set up.

If you guys would like to continue the debate, we could kick off a topic in General, since anything but the most niche Synth build is fairly disconnected to anything in UC.

Rosc wrote:

Nobody remembers an extra pack of Archon Hounds, but everybody remembers the guy with the 40+ point buy stat spread.

Consider that some groups run at close to 40 point buy characters anyway.

Looks around

I'm having problems reading that MoMS has changed so you cannot get early entry into style feats like Pummeling Charge and Dragon Ferocity. Does anyone know how the exact wording changed? In my updated PD I still see:

Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels
thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus
style feat or the Elemental Fist feat (Advanced Player’s Guide
158). He does not need to meet the prerequisites of that
feat, except the Elemental Fist feat.

Are not all feats listed under Style Feats in UC considered style feats for the purpose of this section of MoMS? I would actually support things that discourage the dip into MoMS, but I'm not registering how that's been shored up.

Are not all feats listed under Style Feats in UC considered style feats for the purpose of this section of MoMS? I would actually support things that discourage the dip into MoMS, but I'm not registering how that's been shored up.

Those sections describe the style feats and their feat chains. If you look at the full text of the feat, only the first feat in the chain has is listed as a style feat near the feat name.

Are not all feats listed under Style Feats in UC considered style feats for the purpose of this section of MoMS?

No. Only the first feat in the chain has (style) listed with it. Most of the rest are combat feats. MOMS used to have language that said "and associated feats" that has since been removed.

Have we ever gotten an official response on whether or not those are considered "style" feats despite missing the tag?

I actually have a question here, so I know that the 'double tap' weapon have been made into a standard action, does this also apply to the double shotgun? It didn't make a second attack like the other double barreled weapons, so does the errata effect it in the same way? I'm assuming so, I just want some confirmation here.

I actually have a question here, so I know that the 'double tap' weapon have been made into a standard action, does this also apply to the double shotgun? It didn't make a second attack like the other double barreled weapons, so does the errata effect it in the same way? I'm assuming so, I just want some confirmation here.

yes its in the faq.

Link to it.

Link to it.

Okay cool, didn't see it in the document so I wasn't sure, that's a shame. DB SG could have made some things interesting, meh. Yet another strike against GS 6+

Cao Phen wrote:

Link to it.

Okay cool, didn't see it in the document so I wasn't sure, that's a shame. DB SG could have made some things interesting, meh. Yet another strike against GS 6+

With the old DB rules I saw someone consistently full attack for about 100 dmg at level 6. In a 30 ft cone if they wanted too.

Ah, thanks Blazej and BNW. The Types of Feats section does make it pretty clear which feats are the Style feats. Also, thanks for giving me the wording change as my physical copy of UC is 300 miles away and this was really bugging me.

N. Jolly wrote:

Cao Phen wrote:

Link to it.

Okay cool, didn't see it in the document so I wasn't sure, that's a shame. DB SG could have made some things interesting, meh. Yet another strike against GS 6+

With the old DB rules I saw someone consistently full attack for about 100 dmg at level 6. In a 30 ft cone if they wanted too.

Its impossible to reduce reloading times to free with pelets,also no db firearm has the scatter property, so no you cant do it in a cone.

At level 8 my gunslinger never hit 100 on a full attack, maximum was 80 and that because i got a crit, guess i just have bad luck?

Insain Dragoon wrote:

N. Jolly wrote:

Cao Phen wrote:

Link to it.

Okay cool, didn't see it in the document so I wasn't sure, that's a shame. DB SG could have made some things interesting, meh. Yet another strike against GS 6+

With the old DB rules I saw someone consistently full attack for about 100 dmg at level 6. In a 30 ft cone if they wanted too.

Its impossible to reduce reloading times to free with pelets,also no db firearm has the scatter property, so no you cant do it in a cone.

At level 8 my gunslinger never hit 100 on a full attack, maximum was 80 and that because i got a crit, guess i just have bad luck?

The old double barrel rule let you double your full attack.

So at level 6 normally you'd do 3 attacks (1 base, 1 iterative, 1 from rapid shot) so with double barrel you'd instead do 6 attacks.

That's how he was reaching ~100 per full attack.

He had 20 dex I believe so static was 5 (dex)+4 (deadly aim) +1 (PBS)+1 (enhancement)= d8+11 up to 6 times.

Sure he was eating several penalties to attack, but vs touch AC that wasn't much of a problem. We also had some standard team support such as Bless and Prayer to help his attack bonus. If we had a Bard I think he could have broken 120 per round easily.

ElementalXX wrote:

Insain Dragoon wrote:

N. Jolly wrote:

Cao Phen wrote:

Link to it.

Okay cool, didn't see it in the document so I wasn't sure, that's a shame. DB SG could have made some things interesting, meh. Yet another strike against GS 6+

With the old DB rules I saw someone consistently full attack for about 100 dmg at level 6. In a 30 ft cone if they wanted too.

Its impossible to reduce reloading times to free with pelets,also no db firearm has the scatter property, so no you cant do it in a cone.

At level 8 my gunslinger never hit 100 on a full attack, maximum was 80 and that because i got a crit, guess i just have bad luck?

The old double barrel rule let you double your full attack.

So at level 6 normally you'd do 3 attacks (1 base, 1 iterative, 1 from rapid shot) so with double barrel you'd instead do 6 attacks.

That's how he was reaching ~100 per full attack.

He had 20 dex I believe so static was 5 (dex)+4 (deadly aim) +1 (PBS)+1 (enhancement)= d8+11 up to 6 times.

Sure he was eating several penalties to attack, but vs touch AC that wasn't much of a problem. We also had some standard team support such as Bless and Prayer to help his attack bonus. If we had a Bard I think he could have broken 120 per round easily.

A double-barreled pistol misfires on a 1-2 normally, a double-barrled musket 1-3. If you want to fire multiple times in a round you need to use alchemical cartridges(6gp each crafted) which increase the misfire another 1 to a range of 1-3 or 1-4. If you're double pulling both shots are happening at the same time, no time to stop if you get a misfire. First misfire gets you the broken condition and increases the misfire yet again by another 2-4 depending on your archetype. Lets assume Pistolerro or Musket Master so 2. The misfire is now 1-5 or 1-6. If during a double pull he rolled a 3 or less and a 5(6) or less at the same time the gun goes straight to destroyed.

So during those double attacks he never rolled a 1-3 and 1-5(6) together? How often do you remember him misfiring? Or was he on of those lucky players that never roll low?

He had 20 dex I believe so static was 5 (dex)+4 (deadly aim) +1 (PBS)+1 (enhancement)= d8+11 up to 6 times.

Sure he was eating several penalties to attack, but vs touch AC that wasn't much of a problem. We also had some standard team support such as Bless and Prayer to help his attack bonus. If we had a Bard I think he could have broken 120 per round easily.

Average damage for 6 1d8+11 Attacks is 93, assuming ALL of his attacks hit, which means he was rolling a bit higher than the average for damage alone.

And yet, he was rolling his Attacks at:

(+5(Dex) +1(PBS) +1(Enh) -2(RS) -4(Double-fire) -2(DA) = -1) per attack, so his Full Attack would look like +5/+5/+5/+5/+0/+0... That's... pretty pathetic, even against the Touch AC of enemies.

Also considering he would have had around a 25% chance of Misfire occurring every time he made such an attack, the whole thing seems like this outcomes were MUCH more luck-based than anything else - if he "magically" kept rolling 15s and higher, then, sure, he could have hit over 100 per full-round splooging, but statistically I'd be surprised if he'd have topped 30, honestly.

And that wouldnt be in a 30ft cone either.

There IS one way I can see such a build POSSIBLY working, but it would be a Gunslinger 1 / Fighter 5, and using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapid Shot together plus 4 or more Double-Barrel Pistols that he Quick-Draws.

Feats: Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Quick Draw

+5(Dex) +1(PBS) +1(Enh) +1(WF) +1(WT) -2(RS) -2(TWF) -2(DA) = +3.

So his full-attack would look like:

+9/+9/+9/+4/+4

Which is a HELL of a lot more accurate than the other way.

He could get off 4 shots from 2 Double-Barrel Pistols in total before having to drop them and Quick-Draw another two to keep going (not firing them simultaneously, but in succession, meaning he didn't need Rapid Reload because he had another Bullet in the muzzle already)

While that's surprisingly accurate for what people did/do in real life, it's not very efficient in a game where each one would cost 3000gp+

If he were a Pistolero blowing through ALL of his Grit, assuming he SOMEHOW got 5 Grit even by lv6 (if he was really min-maxing), he could go:

1d8(4.5)+1d6(3.5)+[+1(Enh)+1(WT)+1(PBS)+4(DA)] = 15 average damage per hit = 75 average damage per Full Attack IF all 5 Attacks hit (which is much-more likely to happen than the other nonsense before).

Oh, and IF he somehow got a hold of Boots of Speed, then the Full Attack looks something like:

+10/+10/+10/+10/+5/+5

Bringing the Average, again assuming ALL 6 HIT, to 90.

However, what DM in their right mind would allow a player to have 4 +1 weapons AND Boots of Speed by LEVEL 6? That's 24,000gp+ worth of gear, which is more than what a lv7 character should have.

And that wouldnt be in a 30ft cone either.

Yeah, and that.

Misfire is a very big deal with gunslingers. Remember that on a misfire the WEAPON is broken. So with a db firearm, if you rolled a 1-3 (db pistal w/ alchemical) any time during your routine, you probably stopped after the first attack and quick cleared as a move or stopped and used quick clear next round rather than destroy your weapon. This leads to a big drop in DPR. I actually wrote a formula to calculate the negative DPR that results from a misfire.

That being said: a back of the napkin lvl 11 twf pistolero build can still pull a DPR of ~120 (includes misfire effect and 1 grit for CaD)

That being said: a back of the napkin lvl 11 twf pistolero build can still pull a DPR of ~120 (includes misfire effect and 1 grit for CaD)

Level 11, sure - but we're talking about a supposed level SIX who could somehow do the same thing.

It's not impossible, no, but HIGHLY improbable, and would probably result in destroyed weapons left and right.