FAQ on Errata

Thursday, August 20, 2015


Illustration by Dmitry Burmak

As many of you are probably well aware, we have had a number of update documents drop in the past few weeks, correcting a wide array of issues with some of our rulebooks. Seeing that some of these have caused some controversy among players and GMs alike, I thought I would take a moment to talk about the process of creating these documents and give you all some insight on how we decide on the changes made to the game.

No book is perfect. It's an unfortunate reality of the publishing industry. Despite all of our best efforts and countless hours spent poring over proof copies and making corrections, every time we send a book to the printer, it is with the nagging knowledge that there are at least a few mistakes lurking in its pages. Almost without fail, we spot one within a week of getting the first printed copies shipped to our office, well after it is possible for us to fix it. At this point, the first internal correction file is made. As the staff here at Paizo starts using the book, we usually find a few more, and the file grows. Then the book ships out to the public and the questions begin in earnest.

After that point, we primarily rely on the FAQ system and forum threads to point out errors in our books that need to be addressed. When people on the forums notice problems, post threads, and click the FAQ button, we get notified through our system. About once per week we take a look at some of the most pressing issues, answering them as needed and noting many of them in our corrections file.

Finally, when it comes time for us to actually assemble the updates document that you see for each printing of our books, we get together as a team to discuss each issue. While many of the problems are straightforward mistakes that are easy to fix, some require us to rework a rule or make an adjudication on how it actually works in play. These can be contentious issues, both on the forums and internally, but we are always trying to do what is in the best interest of the game. Which brings me around to the most recent update document that is releasing today, making more corrections to Ultimate Combat.

And the Crane Wing feat.

Many of you might remember the conflict over this feat when Ultimate Combat was first released. We felt it was just too good for a heavily defensive build, so when the second printing of the book was released, we made changes to bring it more inline. Some people on the forums let us know that they felt we went too far in "nerfing" the feat and at the time, we said that we would keep an eye on it and see if it required further adjustment.

As it turns out, the feat did need some work, so we changed it so that it provides a +4 bonus to AC until you are missed by 4 or less (at which point it turns off until the start of your next turn). You can still use it to deflect an attack when taking the total defense action. This is an improvement and one that we hope makes the feat a more viable choice.

Of course, this is only one of a number of changes we made to various rules in Ultimate Combat. There were changes to the Musket Master and Pistolero archetypes, removing an ability that allowed them to ignore misfires at 13th level and double-barreled guns saw a change to balance them as well. The Myrmidarch and Titan Mauler both saw changes that strengthened them, allowing them to work better as originally intended, while the Master of Many Styles was altered a bit to make it more rewarding to those that stuck with it, as opposed to just dipping into the class for quick benefits. You can download the appropriate update document below, or from the Free Downloads or product page.

The process of updating our books is never simple and it is a job we take very seriously. We know that many of you are invested in these rules and the characters that rely upon them. Hopefully this gives you a little bit of a better understanding about the process of updates. If you have any thoughts or comments about the most recent Ultimate Combat update, please post them in this thread (as opposed to making a bunch of individual threads) and we will try to answer your questions.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Tags: Dmitry Burmak Frequently Asked Questions Monks Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Sajan
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Shadow Lodge

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So let it begin anew...

Paizo Employee Developer

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The Pathfinder Society team has already gone through the Ultimate Combat errata and written up any special rebuilding actions to be taken. If you have any questions regarding how this impacts the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild organized play campaign in particular, please do so in that thread.


nice 1 hour before my game tonight. Lets see if my char is still legal.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Litany of Righteousness nerfed and cost of communal stoneskin brought in line with the base spell. A good day for GMs.


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I fully endorse this, I do hope the new Ultimate Combat printing comes with Unchained Monk archetype adaptation stuff though.

Also, I really hope I find duration scaling for the Archaeologist's Luck feature...


RIP Gunslinger 6-20, no reason to ever even think about taking those levels.

Also, was it intended for the double musket to be the only double-barreled weapon change, or was that an oversight.


I'm confused. Water Walk is cleric 3 and ranger 3, but the errata changes Water Walk, Communal to cleric 2 and ranger 2???

Is there CRB errata that isn't on the PRD yet?


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Calth wrote:
RIP Gunslinger 6-20, no reason to ever even think about taking those levels.

Because...?

Dark Archive

Oh hey, thanks for finally errata'ing rapid reload as it relates to advanced firearms! Finally, their action economy is better than early firearms, as it should be! Nice trick making firing both barrels specifically a standard action. As an avid shooter, I can attest to both barrels being shot together continuously as being stupid, and admittedly appreciate the reduction there.


Zaister wrote:
Calth wrote:
RIP Gunslinger 6-20, no reason to ever even think about taking those levels.
Because...?

Deeds generally are bad/worthless and the best feature above 5 was no misfire cause it freed up weapon enchants. And pisteleros needed 11 for Signature deed for Up Close and Deadly, but that's moot now.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ZZTRaider wrote:

I'm confused. Water Walk is cleric 3 and ranger 3, but the errata changes Water Walk, Communal to cleric 2 and ranger 2???

Is there CRB errata that isn't on the PRD yet?

Communal water walk is actually weaker than the base spell. The base spell affects one person per level for the full duration while communal forces you to split it.

Edit: Ninja master!

Paizo Employee Assistant Developer

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ZZTRaider wrote:

I'm confused. Water Walk is cleric 3 and ranger 3, but the errata changes Water Walk, Communal to cleric 2 and ranger 2???

Is there CRB errata that isn't on the PRD yet?

Communal water walk is actually a weaker spell than water walk, in most cases. Water walk lets 1 creature/level walk on water for 10 min/level. Communal water walk divides the 10 min/level duration among the creatures you affect with the spell. The errata adjusts the communal spell's level accordingly.

Edit: Ninja'ed

Paizo Employee Official Rules Response

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ZZTRaider wrote:

I'm confused. Water Walk is cleric 3 and ranger 3, but the errata changes Water Walk, Communal to cleric 2 and ranger 2???

Is there CRB errata that isn't on the PRD yet?

Hi there ZZTRaider!

Normally communal spells are 1 level higher because they split the duration but allow splitting a single target spell (the result is almost always an extremely powerful spell for its level, but that's a digression). Water walk already targeted multiple creatures and does not require dividing duration. So Communal water walk is just a worse version of water walk, and as a non-single-target spell, it shouldn't have received a communal version. Since removing the spell entirely would throw off lots of other things, our solution was to make it lower level instead, to reflect the fact that it is less powerful.

EDIT: It would seem that Berinor has ninjaed Linda, who has ninjaed us. They are both correct.

Scarab Sages

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There is no fear in this dojo.


You guys nerfed sap adept? Really?

a MINUS SIX penalty for using a large two handed weapon???

Wow, rip dipping in manuever master

Myrmadarch still cannot use spell combat with ranged weapons, is that intentionaL? It makes the archetype mostly useless

lol rapid grappler nerfs, grappling op.

wowow eastern armor nerfs, Western armor best armor

Abundant ammunition: abundant for ONLY IRON. because that makes total sense(?)


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Big nerf to Abundant Ammunition. No more using it with ammo made of special materials.

Scarab Sages

Calth wrote:

RIP Gunslinger 6-20, no reason to ever even think about taking those levels.

Also, was it intended for the double musket to be the only double-barreled weapon change, or was that an oversight.

Yeah, really confused about this myself. Looks like double-barreled pistols and shotguns still work according to the original text, effectively doing double damage all the time. Errata the errata?


I'm not sure I understand the change to the Myrmidarch. Does this mean that they still do not have access to Spell Combat with ranged weapons, but have a minor workaround at 11th level?

Grand Lodge

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I am heartened by the existence of these documents.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Do these changes to the double musket also affect the double shotgun and pistol? There were no changes to its text in the errata, but I'm not sure if that was intentional.

Dark Archive

So wait what was the change to Musketeer and Pistolero? The no misfire was removed? Was it replaced with anything, or just removed completely?

EDIT: OH they just removed stacking with magic items from musketeer... okay. I'm cool with that! :D Then as for the Up Close and Deadly change, while I'm not 100% cool with it as a player, I understand the decision as a GM.


the good thing is that rogues now can take master tricks

Liberty's Edge

Hmm. Crane Wing v.4 (in this errata) isn't the same as v.3 (in the FAQ post second printing):

Ultimate Combat FAQ wrote:

Update: Page 93 in the Crane Wing feat, in the first sentence after "you can designate” replace the rest of the sentence with “a single opponent you can see”. In the second sentence change “+4” to “+2” and “attack” to “opponent for one round”.

These changes will be reflected in the next errata.

Notably, this means attack sequences on a character using Crane Wing now need to be rolled one at a time, as each attack can potentially alter the target's AC against subsequent ones. Previously this was not the case.

Also, the new errata doesn't have the FAQ's clarification of Crane Riposte (that it allows an AoO specifically even though that's not normally possible while using total defense.)


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Let's see what the damage was.

Ghost Rager was changed...and I think Buffed for anyone not using the human Superstition FCB (or Superstition at all). Neat.

Titan Mauler finally fixed. Well, sort of.

Controlled Rage finally clarified.

Solid Errata so far.

Myrmidarch works now, I think? Coolio.

Master of Many Styles changes...I was expecting to say I'm 60000% done at this point, but it seems solid. I expected the ignoring of prerequisites to be removed, but this is just a straight buff. You have put me in a very, very good mood.

Terrain mastery makes me kind of sad...mostly because if it had worked this way before, my Slayer probably would have considered not multiclassing Horizon Walker and just staying straight Slayer and nabbing a bunch of Terrain Masteries.

Hard Minded is pretty solid, and the addition of Master Ninja Tricks as an option to the Unchained Rogue is intriguing. Rogue made out like a bandit (hue hue hue) so far.

Why did Moonlight Stalker, Rapid Grappler, Sap Adept, and Sneaking Precision need nerfing?

MAJOR buff to Communal Water Walk. Neato.

Decent errata, all in all, though those 4 Feats still have me scratching my head as to why.

Of course I could care less about anything but the MoMS buff. =p


Zelda Marie Lupescu wrote:

So wait what was the change to Pistolero? The no misfire was removed? Was it replaced with anything, or just removed completely?

EDIT: OH they just removed stacking with magic items... okay. I'm cool with that! :D

No, it was completely removed. The stacking was for Musketeer a different archetype. Also Up Close and Deadly cant have its grit cost reduced.

Scarab Sages

Will we be now seeing more Raging Gunslingers with Vital Strike/Furious Finish with double barrel muskets?


Pathfinder Design Team wrote:
So Communal water walk is just a worse version of water walk, and as a non-single-target spell, it shouldn't have received a communal version.

Ah, that makes sense. I missed that in a quick reading, and admittedly made an assumption based on the existence of the Communal version. Thanks for the clarification!

Silver Crusade

I have to say that that the alteration to the Abundant Ammunition spell is a welcome one as that stops players from using it and weapon blanches to get more than their ten shots. A very good change!

Dark Archive

Calth wrote:
Zelda Marie Lupescu wrote:

So wait what was the change to Pistolero? The no misfire was removed? Was it replaced with anything, or just removed completely?

EDIT: OH they just removed stacking with magic items... okay. I'm cool with that! :D

No, it was completely removed. The stacking was for Musketeer a different archetype. Also Up Close and Deadly cant have its grit cost reduced.

Ah, okay yeah I didn't download the entire book yet, just the errata so "remove the last sentence doesn't mean much lol"

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns Subscriber

What about another printing of the Advanced Players Guide. I know you cannot discuss next printings but I would like to point out that it's been nearly 5 years since it's seen an update.


Gabriel Cantrell wrote:
I have to say that that the alteration to the Abundant Ammunition spell is a welcome one as that stops players from using it and weapon blanches to get more than their ten shots. A very good change!

Our Bard may be sad though.


Rynjin wrote:
Master of Many Styles changes...I was expecting to say I'm 60000% done at this point, but it seems solid. I expected the ignoring of prerequisites to be removed, but this is just a straight buff. You have put me in a very, very good mood

Just saw this, and went to see if you'd seen it yet. Very nicely done, making you the Brawler of style feats.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Cao Phen wrote:
Will we be now seeing more Raging Gunslingers with Vital Strike/Furious Finish with double barrel muskets?

If firing both is now a standard action, and Vital Strike is a standard action, then no, for the same reason we don't see vital striking cleave builds. They don't work.


Rynjin wrote:

Why did Moonlight Stalker, Rapid Grappler, Sap Adept, and Sneaking Precision need nerfing?

...

Decent errata, all in all, though those 4 Feats still have me scratching my head as to why.

My guess is that Moonlight Stalker Feint was always intended to require Improved Feint, but it is unfortunate, since it already has a lot of requirements and feinting is hard to do well anyway. I'm assuming similar for Improved Two-Weapon Feint.

Rapid Grappler and Sap Adept are minor nerfs, but I agree they seems unnecessary.

Sneaking Precision is almost certainly to prevent people from dipping one level into Rogue just to apply critical feats more easily... But requiring 6d6 sneak attack seems kind of overboard. Given how high level you need to be to get the critical feats to begin with, I feel like even 3d6 would've been plenty, and would've let the Slayer actually use the feat before 19th level.


Castarr4 wrote:
Cao Phen wrote:
Will we be now seeing more Raging Gunslingers with Vital Strike/Furious Finish with double barrel muskets?
If firing both is now a standard action, and Vital Strike is a standard action, then no, for the same reason we don't see vital striking cleave builds. They don't work.

The errata specifically calls out that the standard action is an attack action.


Castarr4 wrote:
Cao Phen wrote:
Will we be now seeing more Raging Gunslingers with Vital Strike/Furious Finish with double barrel muskets?
If firing both is now a standard action, and Vital Strike is a standard action, then no, for the same reason we don't see vital striking cleave builds. They don't work.

The errata specifies that the double-fire action is the attack action, so it works with Vital Strike.

Edit: Ninjad


I am slightly annoyed that (Animal) Shamans now use up woodland stride. Only because I wanted to combine one with terrain archetype. Grumble, grumble, oh well.


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Buff to MoMS! Awesome! That archetype is finally useful for more than a dip!

Ghost Ranger changed to avoid the Superstition bonus... Okay, I guess. Don't really mind either way.

Urban Barbarian was clarified. Okay.

I suppose Sap Adept could be a bit too powerful considering the Rogue buffs in Unchained, but why the hell nerf to Moonlight Stalker, Rapid Grappler and Sneaking Precision?

Eh... Overall a decent errata. Good work, Paizo.


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Quote:
In the Final Embrace feat, in the Prerequisites entry, after “special attack” add “as a racial ability”.

My already-sad Unchained Protean Eidolon is made more sad by this. Enlarge Person for every combat it is!

Silver Crusade

Rynjin wrote:
Gabriel Cantrell wrote:
I have to say that that the alteration to the Abundant Ammunition spell is a welcome one as that stops players from using it and weapon blanches to get more than their ten shots. A very good change!
Our Bard may be sad though.

The sad bard then can play a funeral dirge next time for his Inspire Courage Bardic Performance~

But in all honesty it was a needed edit as that was a loophole allowing a someone with a large number of attacks per round to use a blanch for FAR more than the 10 shots it was meant for. Honestly the only other patch for that would be to make the weapon blanch to be a LOT more costly.


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Eh, Kikko armor probably isn't worth it anymore, but it was fun while it lasted.


Touch Injection is fixed! You can still slap somebody with Skinsend; it's just an S.o.S. now.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I really wanted to rage about the Sap Adept change. But you know what? The feat is kind of dumb and gimmicky. You can deal an immense amount of damage with it when combined with Knockout Artist and balancing it requires the DM to kind of just throw non-lethal ignoring enemies at you.

Still, sad. Rogue can use all the help it can get in my honest opinion, but a single feat chain requiring non-lethal damage is not the way.

Sad about the Sneaking Precision change. Really, I feel it should be 3d6, as mentioned above.

Final Embrace nerf is frustrating, too. I was cooking up some theories around it that have been shot down. Ah well.

The Moonlight Stalker change feels like it was not needed. Even if it was intended to require it, I think it was an intent that could change without being terribly confusing. As for the Improved Two-Weapon Feint, I'm less surprised. I won't lie, I am significantly less likely to consider an already unlikely feat but it doesn't make too much sense not requiring Two-Weapon Feint.


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QuidEst wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Master of Many Styles changes...I was expecting to say I'm 60000% done at this point, but it seems solid. I expected the ignoring of prerequisites to be removed, but this is just a straight buff. You have put me in a very, very good mood
Just saw this, and went to see if you'd seen it yet. Very nicely done, making you the Brawler of style feats.

Note that it isn't a straight buff. The class is not nearly as attractive for dipping as you can only get the base feats of a style without prerequisites; the follow-up feats are not covered.

The master of many styles is much better now for people that actually stick to the class; while also keeping sensible level progression balance - no longer can you get feats at level 2 that were intended for level 9 play.

Paizo Employee Official Rules Response

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Raisse wrote:
Calth wrote:

RIP Gunslinger 6-20, no reason to ever even think about taking those levels.

Also, was it intended for the double musket to be the only double-barreled weapon change, or was that an oversight.

Yeah, really confused about this myself. Looks like double-barreled pistols and shotguns still work according to the original text, effectively doing double damage all the time. Errata the errata?

FAQed! Thanks for pointing that out.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
LoreKeeper wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Master of Many Styles changes...I was expecting to say I'm 60000% done at this point, but it seems solid. I expected the ignoring of prerequisites to be removed, but this is just a straight buff. You have put me in a very, very good mood
Just saw this, and went to see if you'd seen it yet. Very nicely done, making you the Brawler of style feats.

Note that it isn't a straight buff. The class is not nearly as attractive for dipping as you can only get the base feats of a style without prerequisites; the follow-up feats are not covered.

The master of many styles is much better now for people that actually stick to the class; while also keeping sensible level progression balance - no longer can you get feats at level 2 that were intended for level 9 play.

Ah, you are right. Good catch.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Pathfinder Design Team wrote:
Raisse wrote:
Calth wrote:

RIP Gunslinger 6-20, no reason to ever even think about taking those levels.

Also, was it intended for the double musket to be the only double-barreled weapon change, or was that an oversight.

Yeah, really confused about this myself. Looks like double-barreled pistols and shotguns still work according to the original text, effectively doing double damage all the time. Errata the errata?
FAQed! Thanks for pointing that out.

How does the new system interact with Vital Strike? Can it be used with a double shot from a double musket now?


Please do address the lack of additional rounds on Archaeologist's Luck (for the Archaeologist Bard archetype). It currently gains no extra rounds as it levels.

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

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The archaeologist is not intended to gain additional rounds of its luck ability as it levels. It receives a number of other abilities to balance out the loss of bardic performance.

Dark Archive

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are PDFs automatically updated?

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