Right on. I tried to post yesterday, but the boards were all kinds of messed up. Lot of 502 errors and whatnot.
Working on it now.
I had issues logging on last night, so will update later.
I will update thread tonight - tried logging on Saturday night but site was down.
@AV-DM - where is that 3D render from, it is exquisite!
I see a dock or similar at the back on the schematic map, but I don’t think we can see that as of yet?
Just in terms of visuals, is the tower on the first Slide the Gauntlight Tower?
How do we want to proceed tactically? Personally I find the Exploration Mode options a little limiting, so I’m a little unsure what to suggest. Mostly Seren employs Scouting, but also looking for odd things and traps (Searching) and trying not to be seen (Avoid Notice). But apparently you can only do one, mostly because of mechanical benefits each gives, and interactions with Initiative. So I’d say Seren would Scout *to* a location, then if she shes signs of life switch to Avoid Notice, and then once inside a building, switch to Search.
Mark me as again complaining that you should be able to be looking for traps AND creatures
WHILE slowly moving stealthily (i.e. all three of Scout/Search/Avoid Notice at once).
Thematically, the idea behind the Exploration Activities is that you can only focus on one thing at a time. If you're following tracks, you can't really do that and hide ... because you're focusing on the ground, and your having to look around, etc.
I think it's intended to give *more* options, rather than limiting options, because in 1st edition no matter what you were doing, you were always rolling the same thing for initiative. Now you have the option to spend your time following tracks, or hiding, or looking around ... and that decision has a direct mechanical impact on the initiative roll.
Also, keep in mind that pretty much all of these activities require half movement speed ... so for the majority of the hike there, we aren't actually doing any of them. We're just walking along, and if something happens then it happens. We aren't hyper-vigilant or darting from bush to bush for the full thirty minutes.
Once we get roughly near the area, then we'd become more cautious, and slow our speed to perform these activities. Luc has a +7 Perception, so he almost certainly wants to do Perception, so he'd be a good choice to be Scouting.
I'd say that Teela and Seren both would want to generally Avoid Notice. I will be making no particular attempt to avoid notice, so could either Search or use Investigate w/ Religion for signs of undead. Kazzi, I notice, has Architecture Lore, and I wonder if investigating the area with that might prove useful as well, though I recognize it's not his best stat for initiative purposes.
Not intended as me telling me what to do, just sort of brainstorming the process, since I know we have some people still fairly new to 2E. I'm playing a deaf/mute Champion and took Read Lips as my level 2 feat, so clearly making sub-optimal character choices in the interest of roleplay is something I fully support. :)
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Teela will casually walk around with her hand on stuff looking for "emotional residue". Unless of course, it's just grass.
But yeah exploration is something I often don't use when I run games.
Another note: Though there's a Searching activity, it is assumed that everyone is looking around. Searching means that you're actively searching the area - looking around bushes, peeking behind trees, checking out rocky outcroppings, etc. This is also narratively why you can't really do it and Avoid Notice at the same time.
If someone or something is invisible or hidden, then Searching might be helpful ... but otherwise, the Search activity isn't doing much other than making you walk slower. Everyone is going to see a dead body in the middle of the road even if no one is Searching. If the dead body has been hidden behind a bush, then you might only find it if you're Searching.
So it's not crucial (or even really normal) that someone would be actively searching when we're outside in an open area where we're not expecting to find something hidden.
@Kamau: These are all good points and essentially what I’m looking for in terms of what is a good fit for each character given the ruleset. And by all means keep up the notes - I am fairly new and appreciate the education from experience. Though I’d have to argue that, on the contrary, you have *less* options precisely because of the Initiative interactions - you have to choose only one. I’d much rather be sneaking AND looking and then have the option to choose a stat, if I have to, for initiative….
And yes, I agree that outdoors, Searching is almost a given for everyone in terms of “we’re all being aware of our surroundings…”.
@ Teela: “emotional residue”. Too funny…
Though I’d have to argue that, on the contrary, you have *less* options precisely because of the Initiative interactions - you have to choose only one. I’d much rather be sneaking AND looking and then have the option to choose a stat, if I have to, for initiative….
I may not be following your point. In PF1, you had *no* option for what to roll for initiative. In PF2, you have many options. I am not sure how going from no options to many options qualifies as "less" options.
One of my other characters is a PF2 Ranger, so I totally get the desire to do all the things during exploration ... but ultimately I can either hide behind some bushes or I can run around looking behind as many bushes as possible, but it's reasonable to say that I ultimately have to choose to prioritize one of those options over the other. If I try to do both, I am really not going to be doing either very successfully.
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Yes. I think that Exploration Activity is to represent that any character can do one thing well (gain a bonus) or do a lot of things not as well (no bonus). It also highlights the flexibility of the system in allowing someone Detecting Magic to use one of the magic skills rather than Perception.
Even if it's not the most tactically/mechanically advantageous choice, I like the idea of using Kazzi's Architecture Lore or Ruins Lore. I'm all for giving use to the lore skills that can go overlooked. It fits the them of what we're doing and of the character.
@Kamau - yep, sorry. My point is that because the Exploration Mode and its attendant activities are so tied to determining what you are going to modify your initiative with you have to choose a solid, mechanistically defined activity. Akin to what Dax is saying, though I would likely spin it differently. Perhaps it’s just that, a matter of perception. Not Perception. Tee hee. Yep, you might *actually* in-world be doing all the searchy-sneaky things, but in-game, mechanically…there can be only one. Which is kinda what I’m getting at - I want to be searching while hiding - so I want to be able to use Perception to notice stuff (possibly not for Initiative but to see hidden things with a DC, but again, yes, also possibly for Initiative) or Stealth (again for Initiative, but also perhaps just to remain hidden and have my own Hidden DC) and so on.
I guess it all comes down to the interaction between what we say we are doing and how the DM adjudicates what we roll/they roll. Personally I’d be much happier explaining what my character is doing and let the DM roll whatever they think is appropriate, if a roll is needed. Like just now - I’d prefer the DM roll my Survival/Tracking if they think it is appropriate. Otherwise, we just spam rolls and rules at the DM who then is beholden on making decisions based on the rolls, not making decisions based on whether they think there should even be a roll in the first place. In this case, perhaps no roll is needed. Or, a different roll is needed. I do find that players determining skills needed and then rolling can shoehorn the DM into adjudication instead of letting the DM run the game and tell the story. It’s definitely a playstyle thing.
Certainly in an in-person game, the GM tells you what to roll and you roll it. Us just choosing a skill and rolling it is just an expediency of the PbP format, to save two days of delays, and to save the GM time of looking up everyone's Survival stat. The only real issue is with secret rolls, which the GM is supposed to roll for us, but very few GMs really want to take that on in pbp, in my experience. I try to roll Recall Knowledge or other things that would be secret behind a spoiler ... but, honestly, it just didn't occur to me if searching for tracks should have been a secret roll or not.
Since I have the Dubious Knowledge feat, I definitely try to do Recall Knowledge checks behind a spoiler, since I don't want to know whether I'm getting true information or a mix of true/false information.
Count me in for scouting then since I have the highest Perception as my default activity, unless I specifically state something else.
@AV-DM - where is that 3D render from, it is exquisite!
I see a dock or similar at the back on the schematic map, but I don’t think we can see that as of yet?
Just in terms of visuals, is the tower on the first Slide the Gauntlight Tower?
Thanks, I kept looking online for an overhead image of the ruins and the lighthouse and could only find combat maps. Eventually, I did a search on Bing images and found that rendering and thought it was pretty cool. Correct, you cannot see the dock. The oval building in the center is supposed to be the lighthouse rising up.
OSW's noob questions:
Is the potency crystal a one-use item? Like activate it once, and then it is burned out? Seems expensive for 4 GP. Or is part of the added cost in having to spend an action to activate it? [EDIT]Doesn't seem like that *is* an Action, more a free Action...so it must be a one use item...?!?[/EDIT]
Yes, the talismans are one use items. That particular talisman does last for the whole round, so you typically want to be sure to activate it on a turn when you're going to be attacking with that same weapon multiple times to get the best bang out of the extra damage.
Hey, all. Sorry for being slow at the moment. Real life stuff is happening and will also be tomorrow. I'll get back on track as soon as possible.
Thanks for the patience.
Hey all, I've been recovering from non-Covid illness. I will update thread tomorrow. Thanks for your patience.
No problems AV_DM - take your time and I hope you feel much better soon!
Just trying to gauge something here:
@ Teela - am I correct in thinking that Teela could have used prestidigitation to dry Seren, but instead....cast light on her, as a joke?
Very correct.
In my defense, the other characters don't know what spells she knows. Well, except Message. And she is a jokester.
@AV_DM - you ok?
Everyone, apologies for my absence. I am completely healthy and ready to jump back in the game.
Phew. Was worried for you after the post about your illness...
Hope everything is well. We about ready to pick up on this?
I sent AV_DM a PM more than a week ago, but have had no reply…
Yep yep.
Anyone in touch with our GM, by chance?
Nope. Have heard nothing. I feel this one is gone.
So, folks. What are we planning here? I suspect that our gamemaster is not coming back in the foreseeable future
Look for a replacement? Let it fizzle? What are your thoughts?
I think I’m ready to move on to other games folks. I feel like Seren has run her course for me…and though I think I’d really like to play Abomination Vaults I want to start again from scratch.
I'd be happy to continue if we found a new DM. I haven't been active much on this thread because nothing's been happening, but not because I'm not around, so I'd remain active if we had a DM to run it.
Aww, Serenllys, shame that. So - three players would like to carry on. I assume people would join in if we found a GM. But can we find a GM and have some dude drop out of a closet in the ruins?