Discussion thread
Welcome all! Thank you for joining this game.
The first thing I want to mention is I aim to keep this moving as much as possible. I'll roll initiative and do block. I may roll passive perception or saves as well. If you post an action and aren't sure what if any rolls are needed, just post a roll. I'll modify it as needed. If you are going to be away for a few days let us know and we can bot you. If you could add a set of default botting instructions in your alias that would be great. If you decide you don't like the game or life comes up and you need to drop out, please just let me know so we're not waiting for you.
The first course of business is to finalize characters. You should all probable post your skills and discuss if any need to change so most things are covered. I would discuss marching order and watch order as well. As purchase any gear you haven't and make sure you have food and water. I won't watch that too closely for most of the game but for the start it will matter as well as light sources. You should probably introduce your characters and decide if there are any previous relationships. I'm sure I forgot something so please ask any questions you have.
Thanks for picking me! Very happy to be here as the Guardian of our paladins :) Especially happy to see another Dwarf of Torag on the group, even though someone clearly different than mine. I'm sure this will be a great game.
In terms of skills, besides the basics, Donnen brings History and Religion. I imagine we'll have some overlapping in Religion! He's also a miner by profession, but I guess that won't be as useful.
Donnen will be built to be defensive as the levels come by. He's very much a melee character... I got him a sling just to have something to do in range. Being a stonelord, at some point he will turn very stationary, like a stalwart defender.
He has weapons to reach in 5 and 10 feet at the moment, and I plan on increasing it, and investing on stuff like cleaving and reaching. Maybe Lunge or Combat Reflexes in the future, but with the feat starvation of a paladin, we never know.
A stonelord doesn't get divine grace - so at some point I will get Steel Soul to offset and improve my saves. It doesn't get spells either and Charisma is the dump stat, so I won't be able to rely much on Lay on Hands - hoping you guys can save me there.
Anyway - let's coordinate our builds before the beginning. Cheers!
Thanks for picking me! Very happy to be here as the Guardian of our paladins :) Especially happy to see another Dwarf of Torag on the group, even though someone clearly different than mine. I'm sure this will be a great game.
You are welcome. I liked how your character and his seemed to be made to play together.
Thanks for picking me! Very happy to be here as the Guardian of our paladins :) Especially happy to see another Dwarf of Torag on the group, even though someone clearly different than mine. I'm sure this will be a great game.You are welcome. I liked how your character and his seemed to be made to play together.
Yes - I think our dynamic will be great! Definitely a pair to get a cold beer with. Maybe we even know each other already from before.
This is Petsha checking in. Thanks for the selection! I'll have the character profile up to date by sometime the middle of tomorrow at the latest. Turns out I wrote up the wrong one.
Hi there everyone! I'm here with a bow and, apparently some heals as we go along. I'm hoping we'll make that second bit a team effort to start with though.
Hey - this is MauveAvengr aka Fley Flaxon checking in. Trying to be a skill monkey. If there are any skills you think I should have (any weak spots?) I can play around with them and try to get them covered.
May eventually pick up Two Weapon Fighting and Weapon Finesse. Not 100% sure what direction I want to go with this build just yet.
Also - anyone want to have connections with Fley before we start? He's been in Kenebres for 50-60 years.
Hey all! Glad to be here.
Leothar is pretty light on skills. Survival (which is not a class skill) and Handle Animal because he I imagined him as looking like a bit of a wild man despite his LG nature. That inspired the name - he looks a bit leonine. Knowledge (History) is in his backstory and seems fitting for a Skyseeker, and Sense Motive as he has a decent Wis.
I don't have a real feat plan for him. He's got Power Attack. Willing to see what needs are revealed.
Glad to have Donnen in the party. Very open to tying backgrounds together. My background does have some room for expansion (I tend to as a player come up with things over time, not have it all nailed down before I start).
Leothar has been in Kenabres for a couple of years now, so could know Fley or others.
Very cool DM Trawets, Thanks for the invite.
Ian is a sword and board fighter, built him so he could be the Guardian or Marshal. So going Marshal, he will still be very 'tanky' and a face.
Ian has been in Kenebres his entire 20 years, both his parents are crusaders in Iomadae's service, it is probably likely that someone could have met him through them, or while he was training with the church.
If you've known his family long, you know he was a gifted jerk before he was Exposed to Awfulness. After the incident, though permanently maimed he became a servant of Iomadae.
Class skills are diplomacy and Intimidate. background skills I have left open thinking languages to use the other skill and possibly 'Lore'
DM T, what do you think of 'Lore (worldwound)' or would that be the same as Knowledge (local) or Knowledge (history)?
I was considering taking Iomadae's Inspiring Sword at first level instead of improved init. but will be able to get it inplace of a mercy at 3rd level so I will wait, unless anyone thinks it's vital for the first two rounds.
As for ‘feat path’, I haven't decided yet and would like any input. Usually when I build a paladin it is strictly melee, Part of me wants to go with the 'wings and metal skin' path, also thinking about an 'intimidation' path, but pretty feat starved so can only do one.
As a second archetype Ian took Sacred Shield so he was more of a tank. What is everyone's opinion on having someone to hide behind? Would you prefer a 'meat shield' with the sacred shields 'Bastion of Good' or would you prefer more 'cannon fodder' with just a normal 'smite evil'?
So:
Donnen Phelps (Guardian): reach weapon: Skills: Knowledge (history) +5, Knowledge (religion) +4 Profession (miner) +6
Petsha Banica (Hierophant): ranged: Skills: craft (Bows) +4, Handle Animal +5, Perception +1, Stealth +8, Survival +4
Fley Flaxon (Trickster) skill monkey: disable device +9, knowledge (nature) +9, knowledge (planes) +9, linguistics +4 (background), perception, +4, sense motive +4, sleight of hand +6 (background), stealth +10, survival +4, use magic device +6
Leothar (Champion) axe and board: skills Knowledge (History) +1 Handle Animal +6 Survival Any background skills yet?
Ardriel Zinro (Archmage) working on stuff
Ian (Marshal) sword and board: skills: Diplomacy + 7 Intimidate + 8 thinking language and Lore worldwound.
Ok who wants the front of the line? Using his halo Ian will be able to provide light for those of us who need it. of course it will also make him a pin cushion target for ranged attacks....
@Ian, Leothar's background skills are Handle Animal and Knowledge (History); his main skills are Survival and Sense Motive. I might switch his stats to 16 Str and 12 Cha, instead of 14 Str and 14 Cha, so he can be stronger in his non-Smite attacks (which is common at low level).
Sacred Shield is really good for a group of frontliners, and eventually some of the others should be able to hand out a proper Smite Evil to you through Aura of Justice. If you were Sacred Shield we would not be hiding behind you, but all fighting alongside you.
I think the Metallic Wings build is cooler than the Intimidation approach but it is your call of course.
The other thing I had considered was taking either Bull Rush or Overrun. To help get and keep enemies where we want them for the defensive stance and Bastion of Good (and Inspiring Sword is a full-round action so you are not too mobile while using it). I have a trait and a racial feature that would help.
Maybe 3: Improved Bull Rush, 5: ? and 7: Greater Bull Rush.
Ahh thanks for the update on skills and for the feedback Leothar
I think the wings are super cool, but not as effective with Ians style as say a ranged build would be. That doesn't mean that I'm not considering it :)
That's why I would take it as a 'mercy' instead of burning a feat for it, though Inspiring sword would get better at 5th level when it picks up a second round. It would give him something to do if not attacking
Right now, Fley has +2 to all knowledge and profession skills from Breadth of Experience feat and can make those checks untrained. If Leothar has survival convered, may pick up bluff or acrobatics instead.
My damage is pretty pitiful though. Any suggestions to boost it a bit? May switch feat to Weapon Finesse or TWF and wield two kurkis. Or wield a bow and shot from ranged. Flexible on ideas.
DM T, what do you think of 'Lore (worldwound)' or would that be the same as Knowledge (local) or Knowledge (history)?
I have no problem with Lore Worldwound. I think the lore skill is meant to me cross skill in a specific area. While Kn: Geography may tell you how to get from A to B and what the terrain is like, it won't tell you there was a major battle along the way or a tribe of gnolls has taken up residence where Lore would.
Fley Flaxon, Thanks for the update on the knowledge skills!
As for Weapon Finesse or TWF or Ranged, they all can be feat intensive and were playing a feat starved class. I would pick whichever tickles your funny bone and stick with it.
the good news is we don't have to be cheesy since were going mythic.
If you want to look at some builds, Zenith Games has some guides
Thanks DM Trawets Lore: worldwounds it is :)
Once you go mythic damage shouldn't be an issue. Mythic Power Attack increases the damage done and gets really nasty on a crit. You may need to worry more about numbers than damage.
The first book is non mythic and at 1st level could be deadly as I don't think you have any healing other than the Heal skill's Treat Deadly wounds and whatever potions are found. You'll need to end combats quickly before any damage can be done. If I recall correctly you are an APL of 3 for a starting group which means I should be adding creatures to encounters to make up the difference.
If everyone could put their paladin code into their profile I would appreciate it. If your god doesn't have one you can steal from another or grab a code from several if you think they fit. You can also do a google search to see if someone has made one you like. You can look on archive of nethys under the gods for their codes.
Paladin code done, Do you mind if I change Ian's armor from splint mail to one of the medium armors with a armored kilt, freeing up a little money and armor check penalties?
Also what is your opinion on Piecemeal Armor?
You are free to make any changes to your character as long as you still fill your path role.
I don't do Piecemeal Armor.
Depending on what you want to achieve breastplate and chain mail only lose you 1 ac and make up for it in allowing some dex and ACP is less.
Profile complete. I'm taking Diplomacy for one of my skills so we have a second face, and since no one else took it, I'm taking the Heal skill as well. Those will go with Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device.
Looking at the list, it looks like we have three melee paladins and one ranged paladin. Fley, once you decide to go melee or ranged, I'll go the other route when I get my next feat at 3.
You are free to make any changes to your character as long as you still fill your path role.
I don't do Piecemeal Armor.
Depending on what you want to achieve breastplate and chain mail only lose you 1 ac and make up for it in allowing some dex and ACP is less.
cool, figured it couldn't hurt to ask on peacemeal armor.
As for med vs. heavy, no dex bonus and the armored kilt doesn't add acp
OK, I've got the profile up to date except my headers (which you'll be seeing soon.) If anyone sees anything that looks out of place do let me know!
I switched out my rank in Perception for a Rank in Heal as well as a Healer's Kit and Surgeon's Tools (though, wow, healing with Treat Deadly Wounds is pretty abysmal, so everyone avoid that damage till level 2!) We'll probably want to invest in a wand of cure light wounds as a group when we've got a chance to. When we get to mythic there's a non-trivial chance I'll take Mythic Craft to help with various things like that.
@Fley, if you're looking for damage, then the Power Attack option might not be available give your strength, but melee wise you will be able to at least pick up Mythic Weapon Finesse for Dex to Damage at some point. And hopefully smite will help with damage for the important things.
Leothar's hope for avoiding damage at level 1 is relying on AC. 20 is not bad.
Oath of the Skyseeker Code of Conduct: Reclaim a Sky Citadel in the name of honorable dwarven ideals. Defend Sky Citadels already held by dwarves.
I suppose as a Torag follower really should have at least one rank in a Craft skill, and preferably one involving a forge. So will drop Survival for Craft (Metalwork) for RP reasons - meaning the various non-weapon non-armor metalwork like horseshoes, nails, hinges, and so on. Survival can be done untrained, and there are some in the party like Petsha who have it as a class skill.
Gonna drop Breadth of Experience and take Weapon Finesse, wielding two kukris. (Planning on taking Breadth of Experience at 3rd level and TWF at 5th possibly). That means no more +2 to all knowledge checks! May take the Tempered Champion archetype at level 4. Trade out spellcasting for boosts to weapon damage.
Deity is Tanagaar. No paladin code for him, but found an old reddit thread that talked about it. Basically, Fley sees the Worldwound as an unnatural scar/border that needs to be erradicated.
Also no Smite Evil - archetype trades it out. Do have Stalk Evil - a constant +2 to attack/damage vs evil outsiders (hope there will be at least one or two).
May take the Tempered Champion archetype at level 4. Trade out spellcasting for boosts to weapon damage.
You can only take an archetype when you first take a level in a class. For this game it will be 1st level.
Didn't know that rule actually! If it's okay with you DM, would like to take that archetype.
Okay, then. At level 3, I’ll start investing in archery feats.
GM, would you allow the Elven Accuracy feat?
...and eventually some of the others should be able to hand out a proper Smite Evil to you through Aura of Justice.
It looks like Chosen One keeps Aura of Justice and the rest of us trade it out. Is that correct? Doesn't matter for a long time.
Leothar, Craft is a background skill, so you could take it for one of your background skills, instead of swapping out survival.
Am I really the only one that keeps Aura of Justice?
Ian gave up Aura of Justice, but his radius of a sacred shield’s bastion of good ability increases to 20 feet :)
Leothar, Craft is a background skill, so you could take it for one of your background skills, instead of swapping out survival.
Am I really the only one that keeps Aura of Justice?
Eh, Survival is not a class skill and I can do it untrained, so losing 1 rank is not a big deal.
Out of my 4 skills, 3 qualify as background skills (History, Handle Animal, Craft) so 1 is getting bought with "regular" ranks in any case.
I'm definitely going to miss Aura of Justice, and its replacement for me is of questionable utility, but my level 14 replacement for Aura of Faith is I think going to be a far more advantageous trade.
My archetype pretty much replaces everything. I think I only keep detect evil and lay on hands, and dumping charisma this last one isn’t really great .
so looking at going intimidating gaze as my first feat, thinking to get an easy debuff regularly.
@ 1 Intimidating Gaze
You can demoralize foes with a look.
Prerequisite: Cha 13
Benefit: You can demoralize an opponent as a swift action if this is the first time you have attempted to demoralize a given opponent in this combat.
@ 3 Power Attack (Combat)
You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.
Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.
@ 5 Hurtful (Combat)
You know how to add injury to insult.
Prerequisite(s): Str 13, Power Attack.
Benefit(s): When you successfully demoralize an opponent within your melee reach with an Intimidate check, you can make a single melee attack against that creature as a swift action. If your attack fails to damage the target, its shaken condition from being demoralized immediately ends.
@ 7 Angelic Blood (Aasimar)
Your blood is infused with holy power.
Prerequisites: Con 13, aasimar.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against effects with the evil descriptor and on Constitution checks to stabilize when you are reduced to negative hit points (but not dead). Furthermore, each time you take bleed or blood drain damage, each undead creature or creature with the evil subtype that is currently adjacent to you also takes 1 point of damage.
@ 9 Angelic Flesh (Aasimar)
Your skin shines like burnished metal.
Prerequisites: Angelic Blood, aasimar.
Benefit: You take a –2 penalty on Disguise and Stealth checks but gain one of the following benefits, depending on the metallic affinity of your flesh (choose one).
Steel: You gain a +1 natural armor bonus to AC, and your unarmed strikes or natural weapons count as cold iron for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
@ 11, Angel Wings (Aasimar)
Feathered wings sprout from your back.
Prerequisites: Angelic Blood, aasimar, character level 10th.
Benefit: You gain a pair of gleaming feathered wings that grant a fly speed of 30 feet (average maneuverability) if wearing light armor or unencumbered, or 20 feet (poor maneuverability) with a medium or heavy load or medium or heavy armor. Fly is a class skill for you.
@ 13 Metallic Wings (Aasimar)
Your wing feathers are made of gleaming metal
Prerequisites: Angelic Blood, Angelic Flesh, Angel Wings, Aasimar, character level 11th.
Benefit: You gain two wing attacks. These are secondary natural attacks that deal 1d4 points of slashing damage (or 1d3 if you are Small).
Okay, then. At level 3, I’ll start investing in archery feats.
GM, would you allow the Elven Accuracy feat?
I would allow that
Intimidating Gaze and Hurtful can’t be used together as they’re both swift... maybe you should consider Cornugon Smash?
@GM Could you please open Gameplay for dots so I can see it on my campaigns tab? Thanks
I will look into Cornugon smash, I was thinking two separate rounds...
Okay, here’s my proposed feat order.
3: Point Blank Shot
5: Precise Shot
7: Elven Accuracy
9: Rapid Shot
11: Manyshot
13: Improved Precise Shot
I’ll figure out more from there. Any thoughts?
I updated my sheet with Torag's Code and added plans; I have a basic idea of my mythic path and feats to take. @GM, please feel free to check and let me know if there's anything you'd like me to adjust.
@Ian: Hurtful works only at the moment you demoralize, so two separate rounds wouldn't work.
@Andriel
Clustered Shots is good too, especially in this AP with lots of people with DR. And, of course, you want Deadly Aim as soon as possible to help with the damage.
Since you're getting elven accuracy, consider the mythic version of it whenever possible.
However...
Considering we're feat starving, I'd also recommend you to look into the Seeking enchantment for bows and replace some feats with it.
Clustered Shots is out of Ultimate Combat - I wasn’t including it specifically for that reason.
A lot of archery feats come out of non-CRB sources. Except for Far Shot and Shot on the Run, those are the archery feats out of the CRB.
@GM Could you please open Gameplay for dots so I can see it on my campaigns tab? Thanks
Campaign has been open since recruitment. I had asked everyone to dot and delete in the post announcing who was in. :)
Thanks! Dotted. As far as feats etc., what I understand is that we have to ask before setting it, hence why I put my plans on the sheet for the GM to look :)
Okay, here’s my proposed feat order.
** spoiler omitted **
I’ll figure out more from there. Any thoughts?
You left out deadly aim, it's the power attack of ranged shots.
As far as feats go, unless you are working on a long term build I would prefer to rule on feats as the time comes.
Is everyone ready to start? I'd like a roll call of yes or no please.
All good on my side.
Yeah - ready to rock and roll!
Yes!
good tp go
..Huh. Deadly Aim is in the CRB. I thought it was in a later book, so I'd have to ask about it. I'll take it at 9, then, and push off Rapid Shot.
Ready to go!
I'm ready to go here as well.
Gameplay post up
So the start of this has echoes of a couple of other APs I am in - though given that they came later, I guess they are echoing it.
War for the Crown and Ironfang Invasion in particular.
Not that I am complaining, there are some good adventure design elements here.