DM Salsa Presents - Chronicles of Kassen

Game Master AdamWarnock

Just so you all are aware, my posting's gonna be limited from the 10th to the 14th next week: my family and me are taking a small trip for a few days and then after that we have my aunt's funeral.

Take care and have a safe trip.

Sorry, but no post from me tonight. I just ran out of time. I'll try to post tomorrow.

Okay, so here's what's going on.

Y'all have been paralleling the south bank of the Tourondel River heading west through the Fangwood. The goblins started off about 100 feet ahead (to the west) of y'all. Erigga moved west 30 feet, then Moon moved west 60 feet after helping Meep with the Bugbear. The goblins were heading south when they tried to hide in the trees again (The two perception spoilers in this post will tell you where they are heading.)

I'll be honest with y'all. Maps are one of the big friction points with me for GMing PBP games. It isn't hard to set one up, but it does take time and energy. It's a problem that I know I have. The issue is that Pathfinder doesn't really support combat without a gridded map. If I thought I could do it, I'd do all combat theatre of the mind.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't want to have to set up a map for every single fight. There's going to be a lot of combat through the next couple parts of this campaign and some situations are going to need maps. I don't want to burn out from trying to force myself to set up maps.

It doesn't help that I'm a pantser when I write and that is true when I GM, too. It's why characters will get more fleshed out as the game continues. It can be great when it comes to coming up with adventures and scenarios for y'all to deal with, but it can really bite me in the butt when it comes to having stuff lined up. It also doesn't help that I'm a not an organized person in general. People will mention something about corn and my thoughts will wind up at Pluto or somewhere in the bowels of an electrical system. No, that is not much of an exaggeration of how my brain works.

Sorry for the rambling post. I was trying to explain why I was trying Theatre of the Mind for this combat. The TL;DR: is that I'm trying to find a way to do combat that reduces the friction on my end, and for whatever reason I can't seem to make it work, and I know it can work because I've seen other GMs do it. Maybe I'm just not doing a good job of laying out what's going on in a way that's easy to easy to grasp and updating things in a way that makes it clear what's happened.

If y'all have suggestions, I'm all ears.

Personally, I don't mind it. In fact, in this case I feel it adds realism to an ambush by multiple enemies in a dense forest. Everyone are scrambling, we're not exactly sure where neither allies nor allies are, and the situation is constantly fluid.

And it is a convenient way of not having to say "ah sorry, you can't do that really cool thing you wanted because you're 5 ft short on your range."

As long as we follow the rule of cool and go with the flow, I think we'll be fine.

I believe that to play PF with all it's rules in a RAI way, a map is indeed necessary, for there are a lot of mechanics that rely on proper positioning and pathing. Attacks of opportunity, reach, flanking and sneak attacks, penalties and boosts to speed, difficult terrain and so on.

That being said, I do believe that it could be played without maps entirely. Even if this would for sure diminish the strong strategic aspect of the game. Here are a couple things to keep in mind:

1) The decision to go light on maps needs to be set so players can be prepared and not "waste" resources into abilities that will become irrelevant. As an example, with no pathing, acrobatics is far less important for rogues.

2) People will imagine stuff differently, so descriptions need to be very good. With maps, when we are confused about something, we have something visual to help us.

3) Terms that are useful with maps needs to be swapped for something more relevant to theatre of the mind. As examples, you could make an average of the party movement and say the enemies are 2 move actions away, grouping them. Not say goblin A is 25ft, while goblin B is 35ft. Make flanking whenever two players are threatening the same foe and so on. Unless the foe is in a choke point, it isn't really fair to tell the players aren't flaking just because they are in the wrong positions when they can't choose their positions. There are many ways to do this. If you need help brainstorming ways to eliminate maps, I'd be really interested in helping.

4) Players need to be onboard. Some players just love the tactical aspects so much that no maps are a no-no for them. I used to rely a lot on maps, but lately I discovered I don't really need them. In Erigga's case, she doesn't really have any ability that would be crippled by having no maps so I'm totally fine.

I could also do something like a zoned map. Creatures in the same zone are within reach of one another, and to move from one zone to another is a move action. Close range (~20 to 30 ft.) spells and weapons can target creatures in adjacent zones, medium range (~40 to 60 ft.) spells and weapons can target creatures up to two zones away, and far range spells and weapons (anything that can go over 60 ft.) can target creatures up to three or four zones away. It'd be similar to what Erigga is saying about saying a creature's 2 move actions away.

But I think Erigga also raised a much more important point. Would y'all be alright with no maps, zoned maps, or having some mix of maps? There's at least one encounter where having a map is going to be necessary, I think.

Sorry for the late response. It was a busy weekend.

I agree with most of Erigga’s points. If you want to go map-less then you need to provide really good descriptions. And you need to expect to either provide options to the players on an on-going basis or expect to answer a bunch of questions that will slow down combat or the more tactical players will have to spend more time on their posts throwing in IF/THEN combat options. While you can easily go map-less on simple combats, when you have a half dozen heroes and stacks of baddies, I think the level of description necessary takes more time that it would to build a ‘trash map’. Also, as Erigga pointed out, going map-less tends to leave tactical players (especially with melee characters) with fewer options.

I’d recommend going with ‘trash maps’ for battles that are not important ‘set pieces’. And you can just reuse the map. Here’s a sample trashmap I threw together in 10 minutes. Then all you need is simple rules like:
* Green is moderately dense forest. You can’t charge through it but it isn’t difficult terrain.
* Dark Green areas are brambles and considered difficult terrain.
* Water is blue.

You could reuse the map for multiple battles in any ‘forest’ setting… you just change the character positions and enemy and toss in any ‘variable’ you like… such as:
* Grey Boxes are fallen logs which can be used as cover or can be climbed over with a DC10 climb check.

Trash Map

If you want to go map-less or whatever, it is your call.

BTW, based on the belated scene description, my understanding of Moon's placement related to the enemy and Erigga is very different than what I intended. This is the kind of thing that doesn't happen as often when using maps. I'm fine to play through as is, just pointing out the bennies of maps vs 'theatre of the mind'.

Okay, points taken, I'll try to get a map whipped up tomorrow.

Also, feel free to delegate mapmaking/token creation etc. We could start a slide deck or something that we all can edit and just load it up with generic maps and tokens.

And there are an crap-ton of free battlemaps available out there. Like This winter forest that would be a good fit for out current situation. Just drop a map grid and some tokens over it and we're up and running.

Hey all, I've got some bad news. My paternal grandfather has been getting worse over the past couple of months. I'm going to go visit him and my grandmother this evening. I won't have time to post, and I need some time to process this. Thank you for your understanding and patience with me.

And thank you to everyone for helping me out with the map stuff. I think y'all should be able to edit the slide deck for the maps if you want to help. Just let me know if you do or run into trouble.

Sorry to hear about your Grands. You have my best wishes.

I’m happy to help with maps, icons, and whatever. I have Maptools so I can crank out a basic trashmap fast. I can also adjust the scale of the map easily… so if you liked my sample above, but the grid is too small, I can scale it up and repub quickly. Basically, I’m here to help and I enjoy doing maps.

Thanks. I do appreciate it. I think that map works. if you have any tokens you can use for goblins, hobgoblins, and ogres, that'd be awesome.

I can handle that.

Again, thanks!

Done. I put one of each icon on their name block on Trash Map 1. Feel free to copy/pasta as needed. I also threw in an icon for Erigga, Ethufel, and Arnama.

Hey all, I've got some bad news. My paternal grandfather has been getting worse over the past couple of months. I'm going to go visit him and my grandmother this evening. I won't have time to post, and I need some time to process this. Thank you for your understanding and patience with me.

And thank you to everyone for helping me out with the map stuff. I think y'all should be able to edit the slide deck for the maps if you want to help. Just let me know if you do or run into trouble.

My sympathies.

I added a copy of the trashmap into the Kassen Battle Maps file

Thanks, Moon.

All, I apologize for the past couple of days, it's been a bit of an emotional mess for me.

Don't apologize for having a normal reaction to a shitty set of events.

Hey all,

So I got some bad news Tuesday about my paternal Grandfather. He's been battling cancer and, more recently dementia. I think it's only really sunk in just in the past few hours that he's not going to get better. My sister and I visited with him yesterday, and other than saying hello and good-bye, he spent most of the time dozing.

I'll keep y'all updated as I can. I'm going to be unplugging for a few days. I'll be back as soon as I can.

Having been through a similar thing all too recently, I know almost exactly how you feel, GM. Take all the time you need and take care of yourself.

Hey all, Thanks for your patience with me over these past several days and for your thoughts and prayers.

Just an update on my grandfather. He had to be admitted into the hospital because of dehydration. He's doing a lot better now, though, and should be going home today.

I think I'm about as alright as I'm going to get for the time being. I'll get a post up today.

Dang, Maidie! That was IMPRESSIVE! That has to be some of the best roleplaying of a summoning spell I have ever seen! *applause*

Thank you! I have learned from the best over the years.

Cragg-el and his tribe first appeared in this PbP game. I thought it would be fun to bring him back. The summoning description is all mine, though.

So, a discussion in a game recently made me realize that I do have a redline that I haven't told y'all about, mainly because it wouldn't have crossed my mind in a million years that it could or would come up at the gaming table, which was particularly naive of me considering one of the first games I ever played in on the boards here had the GM rolling to see if intercourse resulted in pregnancy.

For various reasons, not the least of which is how highly charged emotions on both sides of the particular issue that this discussion touched on are, I would appreciate it if we could avoid anything dealing with Night Tea's other canonical use, besides being a contraceptive.

I know we're all adults here, and if not, we're all reasonably mature. I try to make it a point to not discuss politics with the people I play games with. That goes doubly so for this topic. I'm honest enough with myself to know that I'm very much a hardliner in my stance on this topic and that both my faith and my emotions play as large a part in that stance as any logical reasons I have for it. I would very much appreciate it if any questions you may have for me about this, including clarification about the topic I know I've been skirting around, are asked though private messages here or in direct messages in Discord.

I understand that the likelihood of this coming up in game is practically nil, but I would rather address it now than have to address it later and deal with an awkward conversation about why I didn't bring it up sooner. I understand that I'm almost certainly in the minority in my opinions on this issue here on the boards and that it's probably not hard to guess what my stance is on this issue I'm intentionally trying to avoid naming. Because of that, I understand some people might not want to associate with me. While I believe that most of us have more in common than we don't, I know that emotions are powerful things, and it can be difficult to reign them in. If you no longer wish to play at a table I am at or that I run because of this, then I won't judge you, nor will I begrudge you the right to do so. All I ask is you let me know if you are going to leave. I know that some of us play together on the same side of the GM's screen in other games. If you no longer wish to do so at any of those tables, please let me know and we'll figure something out.

Thank you for your patience and your grace with me, especially after my most recent screw up. I just ask that you keep showing that to me, especially with this. Like I said, never in a million years did I think this would come up, but here we are.

I...uh...feel like I missed a conversation somewhere, but I understand where you're coming from and will of course respect your wishes.

I'm all for realism in the game... but here is where I think things go a step too far. My general rule (despite the unreality) is a character has no chance of getting pregnant unless the player wants them to. Hopefully, it is in furtherance of the plot or an RP element both players (assuming typical procreation) and the GM want to add to the game.

I've run into a few players who like to use the game as a 'test bed' for hot-button issues and/or to be the d-bag who has to throw a turd in the punch-bowl. I keep a blacklist of players for just those occasions.

Regardless of any differences we may have on the Pro-Choice vs Pro-Life topic, it's not something I'm going to push away from the game table over.

↑ Yeah, what Moon said!

Thanks to both of you. I appreciate that.

In a sense, yeah, there was a whole conversation that y'all did miss. I got into a Hell's Rebels game and there's a coincidental link between one of the major things setting the tone and backdrop for the game and an item called Night Tea. All of us are playing women and most have backgrounds that deal in herbalism and medicine. One of the players brought it up and thought it might be an interesting angle to play on. I think the idea was more the contraceptive side of things, but I also know that it's pretty much stated that you can use Night Tea for something more reactive, to put it delicately. Honestly, I had forgotten it was a thing and it took going through a couple of posts to realize that it wasn't related to the Boston Tea Party.

While I believe that this is a discussion that needs to happen, a table top game is not the place for it, and largely for the reasons that Moon lays out. It's one of the reasons I try (I don't always succeed, but I promise that I do try) to avoid discussing politics among the people I game with. Every time I have failed to do so, I'm reminded of why I should, and it largely stems from the fact that I do feel things deeply and there are somethings that I am passionate about. Those traits are things that, I feel, are a hinderance when it comes to topics that are, shall we say, spicy. It's far too easy to engage my mouth before my brain and in doing so say or write something that I regret later. I'm old enough to know that not everyone will like me and that I won't get along with everyone, but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with aftermath that kind of event could lead to.

And to be honest, I think that part of it is that some of these issues hit far too close to home for me to be able to look at my own thoughts and beliefs on the issues critically. I may have only just realized that, but it makes sense to me, and would explain why those issues in particular are ones that I feel so strongly about. In a very real sense, it is personal.

Then again, maybe I'm just emotional exhausted, tired, and hungry. Probably not the best state to be in for self reflection or trying to explain what's going on and why I posted that seemingly out of the blue. As I said, I think the odds of it coming up are practically nil, but I felt it would be remiss of me to not inform you of any redline just because I don't think it'd ever come up.

Anyway, I think I need to get some food in me and go get some sleep.

Thank you for raising this issue, Adam. I feel that respecting each others red lines, whatever they may be, is absolutely essential to creating a safe and inclusive gaming environment. And we can only respect those lines if we know where they are.

The beauty of this game and the online PbP community is that it lets a devout christian from Alabama play in the same game as non-binary or trans players from the West Coast or fat middleaged liberal socialists from Scandinavia. In the current political and ideological climate, especially in the US, that’s no small thing.

Hey everyone,
I'm really sorry for disappearing for a few weeks there. Work has not improved (in fact, due to people leaving over the recent changes I now have more responsibilities then when this all started), and now I'm looking for a new job on top of that. I definitely should have at least made time to give you all a heads up before now though, so (again) I apologize for that. I've gotten accustomed enough to the situation that I could probably start making some posts again--if you're open to that--but, truthfully, it wouldn't be everyday: more like a couple per week. If that's not often enough, or if I've already lost my spot, I totally understand. Please just let me know what you'd like me to do.
Ethulfel

Sounds rough. Good to have you back.

As far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to rejoin the game, as if you'd been with the group all along. I'm certainly not one to knock anyone for a few days of radio silence because real life acts up.

Pretty much what Jacob said. I figured you got swamped and just couldn't get away, so your spot's still open. We can have you either staying with Talliree or Eth's mom, in the background of this fight making sure that something nasty isn't sneaking up on the party, or running to catch up after missing the rendezvous at dawn to set out. It's up to you.

In any case, it's good to hear from you and I'm happy that you're back, even if on a limited basis. Good luck with the job hunt.

By the way, in case anyone didn't see the post in Discord, Roll20 suffered a data breach that exposed names, credit card information (last 4 of the number,) and IP Addresses (forgot to mention this one.) I highly recommend changing your passwords and informing the issuers of any cards you have used on Roll20 that at least some information was exposed due to a data breach.

Hey everyone,

I'm really sorry for disappearing for a few weeks there. Work has not improved (in fact, due to people leaving over the recent changes I now have more responsibilities then when this all started), and now I'm looking for a new job on top of that. I definitely should have at least made time to give you all a heads up before now though, so (again) I apologize for that. I've gotten accustomed enough to the situation that I could probably start making some posts again--if you're open to that--but, truthfully, it wouldn't be everyday: more like a couple per week. If that's not often enough, or if I've already lost my spot, I totally understand. Please just let me know what you'd like me to do.
Ethulfel

I figured Real Life had hit you and HARD... or worse, that your health had taken a blow (Mine did for a bit). I did go ahead without much guilt on Grob and his mom's storyline figuring Eth and his mom's story would get resolved when if you came back. No worries there on my part.

Frankly, while we're doing well, your bard would be welcome in the fight IMO :)

By the way, in case anyone didn't see the post in Discord, Roll20 suffered a data breach that exposed names, credit card information (last 4 of the number,) and IP Addresses (forgot to mention this one.) I highly recommend changing your passwords and informing the issuers of any cards you have used on Roll20 that at least some information was exposed due to a data breach.

I got an email on it. I cursed a great deal but I haven't bought anything on Roll20 so my CC Info should be safe.

Thanks! And, sorry I haven't made a gameplay post yet... this is going to sound a little outrageous but, my SO's uncle was murdered by his ex-wife last week and things have been a little crazy since. The funeral, which we're both helping with, is tomorrow so, hopefully, I should be able to get a post up like Wednesday-ish.

Holy!

Wow that is some Soap Opera level drama. I'll be praying for you and yours. That is... that is some pile of yikes. I don't doubt it was crazy.

Take your time. This next part is going to take a bit so plenty of time for you to catch up to the others. If you want, I do have an idea to explain where Eth's been.

I HOPE they caught the killer ! Geez

Condolences

Just WOW

Oof! Condolences to your SO, Eth. That is horrible.

My thoughts exactly. Cheese-and-rice!

I HOPE they caught the killer ! Geez

The last update I heard was that the police were still gathering evidence, but they’re keeping tabs on her location.

So...we gonna adopt Zorlak now too? :P

Grobradon wrote:

I HOPE they caught the killer ! Geez

The last update I heard was that the police were still gathering evidence, but they’re keeping tabs on her location.

Fingers crossed

So...we gonna adopt Zorlak now too? :P

No. You must be 'this cute' to be adopted.

:)

As funny as that might be, I wasn't planning on it. Well, I didn't plan on it for Meep either, so maybe that's not the best way to say no, now is it? :P

Just as an FYI, Zorlak was wearing a necklace full of ears, so make of that what you will.