I'm wanting to run a play-test of a spaceship-combat system that I found posted somewhere on a board, and have modified somewhat.
I'm thinking that the play-test itself would only take 2-4 weeks of real-time involvement (altho we all know how PbP can take longer than you think...). I'd like to run 2 combat scenarios.
To generate PC's, you'd literally only need to allocate points to 4 skills. If you *want* to generate a full PC and/or backstory, that's fine, but not required.
Everyone on the spaceship will have skills that apply to space combat, and so everyone will be engaged during space combat, not just the pilot. Each character will have at most two skills in : Piloting (with 5 possible actions to chose from per turn), Gunner (2 possible actions), Sensors (4 possible actions), and Engineering (3 possible actions). Each round, everyone will have a chance to apply one of their skills to the situation (altho with more PC's, some rolls may only be Cooperative rolls).
The rules are pretty much made up for Slipstream, but I've added some things from Daring Tales of the Space Lanes (in particular, Shields), so the ships are fairly simply defined. I will be giving you your ship, you don't get to build it.
Ideally, I'd like to have 4-6 players. Less than 4, and not all possible actions are covered, and more than 6 means some PC's won't be doing very much. If I get more than 6 offers, I'll take the first 6 that posted an interest.
FWIW, I'll be using the SWEX Chase Rules (just because). I can provide a summary of the rules if you don't have them.
Anyone interested?
From what I can tell, this version of Savage Rifts does not have an official bartering system. The new one does, and it also encourages the use of the Wealth rules to speed up play instead of tracking all your credits. Since we are playing with SWEX rules, I am fine with using the credit as the baseline, that's not a problem. What I was getting at is what you were explaining, the whole how much food can I get for this weapon, if it's useful to the person kind of thing. One of the ways to find a buyer is using Persuasion to find some contacts and sell them. This plays to some of the more talkative characters, such as Anya.
With that, I don't want to bog down the game too much, but I am trying to also maintain a sense of verisimilitude with the world of Rifts. Yes there is high tech and magic, but for the most part, you are on the edge of the frontier here. The simple things can be difficult in such a world.
For the game, if you want to simply put down the credit value of what you want to sell and call it, say Trade Goods, you can certainly do that. Then you will know how much you have to trade with, along with your actual credits. The Legion does pay you a stipend weekly, but it isn't payday yet. That and you guys are getting promotions as well, after you rescue Jaq.
Yes, please rescue Jaq. The poor girl's getting tired of this CS goon droning on and on about how awesome he is. :P
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Okay I'm not caught up and, yeah, it's a little bit jarring having RIFTS, a rule-heavy game but at least we didn't get bogged down in daily sundries, now bogged down by daily sundries.
With that said, yes, I'm fine with these magical "wealth and supplies" rules you have alluded to. I'll even RP some Persuasion if it'll make it easier and get us to the Exciting Rescue Scene(tm)!
If you wanna just whip up some number based on what you think is fair and where you think the party should be in W&S, that's fine.
Alright, if everyone is onboard, I can use the SWADE version rules for Wealth and Supplies. It's actually fairly simple.
For money, each of you start with a d6. You can buy anything less than 25x your Wealth die without worrying about cost. Anything more than that is a roll. Success means you get it, but your die type goes down one. A raise means it stays the same. Failure means if you decide to buy it anyway you go broke and have to basically live off the land. Or you can choose not to buy the item. Critical Failure you have no chance of buying it until at least a week passes (payday).
For Supplies, you have a d6 in all your supplies as a team: Food, Water, Ammo, Spare Parts and Fuel. If you spend a day somewhere you can't trade for these things, you roll the die, success it stays the same, failure, it goes down a die type. Critical Failure is bad. Buying more is done with trade and of course you can always find some as well. Just like Wealth, it can go up or down temporarily.
It would expedite the process a bit if we used these, rather than having to count credits and all that, so like I said, if everyone's on board, we can go that route, otherwise we can continue with the credits as per SWEX rules.
How does that work for large purchases? So I can buy something up to 150 credits without rolling, which is great for buying lunch and such, but makes almost anything in the book unavailable. Even a Fragmentarion grenade is 550 credits, and that's a single use item.
If I want to buy a Shard Pistol, for instance, that costs 72000 (480 times my base purchase price). Do i simply roll my d6, and on a success I am able to buy it?
Less paperwork? Count me in!
And yeah, that's what it sounds like. Odds of success on 2d6 are pretty good, so I think it's worthwhile. I'm guessing there are narrative ways to increase one's wealth, like investing in business opportunities or just coming across a horde of treasure. Also, there's nothing saying that the GM couldn't tweak things so that firearms and the like are more within our reach.
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The Wealth system has all the rubbery-ness of the SW system, so expensive items get a penalty, you can get support from other characters, and you can get a bonus with good negotiation.
Also, getting "paid" means your die type goes up by one, so in theory you could save up for a while. (Also in theory, since we've had two "rewards" we could ask the GM to start us out higher than a d6. =)
(Ugh, I wrote this hoping to put a better spin on things, but even with a d10 and another +2 from Help, that still puts most things in RIFTS out of orbit. So I guess my answer is I Don't Know. =-)
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P.S. Since we'll by travelling for three days, one presumes that we can extend the Wealth rules into purchasing more supplies.
The RIFTS book says that most of the adventuring gear in the SW book is available, and at the same price. The SWADE book lists MREs at 10 cr each, so...even at d6 we can each get 15 without a roll?
First off, DM SBM, my SWADE says anything less than 10* the die value is automatic, where'd you get the 25*? I'm going to assume 10* for the following.
I don't like the SWADE Wealth rules for all the reasons just mentioned. SWADE also doesn't define penalties for items over the "get-for-no-roll" value (so Shakti-no, you don't just roll the d6 for a $72000 item), so it's entirely up to the DM's subjective ideas. DM SBM, if I have a d6, what's the penalty for a $300 item? A $5000 item? A $72000 item?
Also, there's no guidelines for converting loot into "die bumps" (increasing the PC's Wealth die by 1 or more steps). So how many die bumps does $500 get us? $2000? $10000?
I posted the question to the SW community HERE, and they had some good ideas for improving it and getting around my objections. But they also posted some objections of their own. Like, the difference in price in "automatic success" and "having to roll" between a d6 and a d8 is only $20???
In particular, one player came up with additional rules for Wealth as a $2 PDF, HERE. I've looked it over, it does seem to address most of my objections (but by adding more rules and guidelines). However, Shakti's $72000 item still has a whopping -7 penalty! DM SBM, if you decide to use this, I'd suggest dividing all RIFTS prices by 10 to determine the penalty (which still results in a -4 penalty, pretty steep - even with a d12 Wealth die, that's only 50% chance of Success).
And, Jaquline, it's not 2d6, it's a single d6 and the extra Wild Card d6, rolled separately. But that does have a 75% chance of Success with no penalties. But even a -1 penalty reduces that to a 55% chance of Success, and a -2 reduces it to 31%.
Finally, regarding Supplies (which isn't even in SWADE) - really, we'd have to roll *every day* we're in the wild??? After 1 week, there's an 86% chance our d6 would have dropped to a d4. And after 1 week at d4, there's a 97% chance we'd be out of supplies. How about changing that to rolling once per week we're in the wild?
It is assumed in the rules that when you are in town, you are trading and bartering to keep your stocks where they are at. To buy more, yes, you can trade a die type down for a die type up in one supply. Otherwise if you want to just simply buy some extra food for other folk, you could do that too. (I.e, yes, you could each just buy 15 MREs without even having to roll. I would say that would increase your food supply at least 1 die type.)
As for the purchasing of larger items, you can get almost anything if it is available to be bought at all, but you run the risk of not having enough later (the lower die type) until you get your next paycheck, find a big haul or sell off a lot of items. You guys have enough stuff at the moment, I would say you could also have a d6 in Team funds and junk items to sell, as well as your personal money.
My whole point of doing this was to remind the characters that when you are not in a settlement, RIFTS is a dangerous frontier. Running out of food or battery packs for the Mountaineer is just as scary as running into a CS patrol, Splugorth slaver party or worse. As I mentioned earlier, you've been spending a lot of time in towns and such, and so haven't had to worry about it, but now you will be 3 days out and 3 days back, assuming you come back to Garnet Town with Jaq. You could just as easily decide to head back to Castle Refuge and get free refills of everything.
The 25x Wealth die comes from the updated RIFTS Books, as does the Supplies rules. They are both in the Tomorrow Legion Field Guide. Since I kickstarted them, I have the finalized PDFs. The physical books are due sometime in April.
You are right, the penalties are subjective, but I like your divide by 10 guideline, with some mods based on location and what you are trying to buy and who from. Buying a Glitter Boy from a CS Logistics officer will be far more difficult than buying an NG-33 from an NG salesman, in which case a bonus might be in order there.
As for rolling every day, even that is subjective. Some of the stuff you won't use up on your journey. The vehicle is electric and while it is still possible to get Vehicle Fatigue, rolling for fuel is less necessary. If you don't get in a fight that day, there's no reason to worry about Ammo. If you don't have to repair the vehicle that day, no roll needed. Only Food and Water are needed and only while in the Wilderness. They are only meant to represent a week's worth of supplies anyway.
Ok, so here's why I have problems with this abstract system. You say we have a d6 Wealth, but our last paycheck was $7800, which is 7.8 times our starting wealth (and somewhere between the Rich and Filthy Rich Edges of the original SW RIFTS, corresponding to a d8 or d10 Wealth in SWADE). So why isn't our Wealth a d8 or d10 right now? And which should it be?
And all the stuff from our first haul totals $346,000 from the laser pistols and rifles alone! And you're just giving us a Team d6 for all that??? If you want to bump it up (which I really think you should), how do you decide how many die increases $346,000 is worth?
I feel that there must be some consistency *and* fairness with abstract systems. Which means more rules.
The PDF I referenced in my previous post addresses most of that. According to his rules, the $7800 should bump our individual d6's up to d10's. If you use his rules for the $346,000, that would bump our Team die up to d12. These seem reasonable.
And, the PDF also assigns appropriate penalties for buying stuff (altho dividing the listed value for RIFTS by 10 does seem to be needed to make the penalties reasonable).
This is all assuming that we want to stay with the abstract Wealth rules. Me personally, I'd prefer credits (for reasons explained in the next paragraph). But I'll use the Wealth rules if everyone else wants to, providing we can add consistency and fairness.
But players, consider this : even if we sell our first haul for half price, and divide it 3 ways (sorry, Jaq), that's $58000, enough for anyone to buy *any* laser pistol or rifle in the book, guaranteed, with *at least* $18000 left over (and possibly up to $38000 or more!). But with a d10 personal Wealth die, an average laser rifle would be at a -2, which has only a 58% chance of success. And the best laser rifle would be at a -3, which has only a 40% chance of success! Why should we make purchases dependent on a die roll with a chance of failure (and even Success imposes a penalty - the die type drops!), when with the same amount of actual credits we can definitely buy the thing?
Okay, now that i know a little more about how this works, I am leaning towards Burgurk's way of thinking. The whole point of abstracting wealth is to make it easier to run the game. Throw in too many penalties, rules, and other things, not to mention the die going up and down depending on what you got paid or just spent, then why use the system in the first place. I do not like bookkeeping more than I have too in games and that is something that has drawn me to Savage Worlds and Powered by the Apocalypse systems like Dungeon World and Monster of the Week.
All in all, I think I'd rather stick with credits with the current wealth system.
It is meant to be abstract and cover things like lines of credit and all your 'normal expenditures', i.e. food, clothing, minor repairs and maintenance etc. I believe they base it on the real life fact that the more you make, the more you spend, and so it averages out. The consensus seems to be to keep the credit system, so that it what we will do. With that in mind, let's go ahead and move forward with that.
As a side note, I am very curious about PBtA systems and how they would run in PbP. Have you had any experience with that Jaq?
P.S. - no takers on my play-test?
I have had a reasonable amount of experience playing in Dungeon World, on these forums. Players post their Moves (actions) and a die roll, and the DM responds with "results" (or "consequences" might be a better word). Pretty much the same PbP format as D&D, PF, or SW. It works as well on PbP as the other systems. It is, however, more work for the GM to come up with the "consequences", since they aren't specifically described by the system.
Thanks Burgurk. I've been reading through the system and I haven't had much actual experience with it yet, but it sounds pretty interesting as a game type.
It's a completely different mind-set than D&D, PF, or SW, especially for the GM. I tried it for a while, but couldn't get into it. I did, however, run into some GM's that were excellent at running it.
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Blargh. Stuff.
1) It seems that maybe a Wealth system would be good in most settings, but maybe not in RIFTS since it has SUCH a HUGE variation in prices, from 10 for an MRE to 72000 for relatively minor weapons and cyber upgrades.
2) I've played much Dungeon World, and, yeah, it depends on many things. You can -not- come at it with a min-max attitude, and it depends much on the DM having fun with the mechanic...AND for the players to be okay with the "You can try anything, but you'll probably only minorly succeed, and that lets something bad happen to you anyway."
I'm usually fine with it as long as there's someone in the party that can heal, usually me, since the Bad Stuff is so often damage.
3) I'm in for your playtest, ZenFox. I love rules-lite systems and I love space systems, so this should be good.
Anya - please check your PM.
DM SBM - what Anya said about Dungeon World. One of the things that confused/put me off to the game was that even when I made a solid success roll (the equivalent of "with a Raise" in Savage Worlds), the DM could *still* do something bad to me!
My reading of the rules was that the situation could develop and bad things could still potentially happen, but the player was given a chance to react to any complications before they could do harm. A solid success shouldn't have lead to harm at all, but that's just my interpretation, and I'm not fresh on the rules, so I may be misremembering things.
That said, GM, is Jaq also receiving that free benny and a chance for an interlude?
I've picked up the Novis Rune setting again. You can view the document here.
Really I just need advice on what ya'll feel is missing as far as player options go. I want to run a one shot in this setting to get my feet wet and I'd like to do it soon, but I want to make sure there's a lot of wiggle room in whatever bounds I set to play around in.
@Jaq- Yes, as a matter of fact, I'll be posting a description for your part in the travel shortly.
That would be 2 bennies if I do the Interlude then? I’m going to do it either way, just want to know what to add
@Jaq- Correct
@Anya-Got it.
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@Burgurk. I like what you're trying to do with the whole flying thing. Creative use of a power! It just seems to be a massive burn of resources all for the chance for you to do something that the character isn't really built for.
If you're hellbent on scouting (and Wraith would be the first to sympathize with such an impulse) I could just fly you over close to wherever, and you could scout on foot, boosting your own Notice/Stealth.
I mean, it seems safest for you to just boost Anya so she can move like a Wraith and see like an eagle and get all the scouting done before you can finish your second coffee, but I totally understand if a mutant's gotta do what a mutant's gotta do! =p
I would think that no amount of stealth bonus is going to do much against the sound of the turbine engines on a flight mech. At best, it might make it possible to hug the ground to stay out of sight, or use the surrounding hills to redirect the sound in a way that makes it hard to determine the direction of the sound's origin, but they're going to hear it no matter what.
Well, we could land far enough away that the engines won't be heard, then hoof it to the meeting site, then once we get in sight of it, we Stealth up to it.
I *could* Boost Anya's Stealth, but as DM SBM said when I mentioned trying to fly myself, if Anya is up in the air she would still be visible by sight.
I think the best thing to do would be for whoever's got any Stealth skill (so, Anya) to sneak up on the meeting place once we get within sight of it, and have them report back to the rest of us via comms. If it would only take 2-3 minutes to get there and back, Burgurk could boost their Stealth (and/or could Shakti do a meditation like she (almost) did for the Repair roll?)
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I don't get the distances.
Let's try one of my famous ascii drawings. =)
Vehicle <--200 yards--> Western edge <---300 yards---> center of camp <-----500 yards-----> Anya <----500 yards-----> mountaineer.
If the vehicle is 200 yards away from the edge of a 300 yard perimeter, that would put it 500 yards from the center...exactly as far as I am, on the opposite side, but that means it's 1000 yards away from me.
Yeah?
Hey, I'm still around and having fun when I can post. The main danger is me forgetting what all Jaq can do. :P
Hey, I'm opening up a recruitment thread for a short DnD 5e adventure if y'all are interested. The thread can be found here: A Dinner for Party of Five
Unfortunately, I havent played 5th, and i dont know squat about it, otherwise i might be up for it.
On the flip side, I'm restarting another Savage Worlds Rift game that has been on hiatus, if you or anyone else from this game that is not already in it wanted to join.
Color me intrigued. I'll be giving the thread a read through to see what I can think of.
Hey guys, just so you are aware, I've taken on a new position IRL and it has severely limited my time during the week. That said, I will get back into the swing of things soon because I want to give you guys the time you deserve in game. I'm hoping to get things back on track before the weekend. Thanks for understanding!
It's cool! Get settled and come back when you can. We'll wait for ya! :)
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It doesn't list modifiers for doing Called shots at Vehicles, so it seems that if someone shoots at "tires" that might be -4; maybe no armor and a decrease in mobility.
But shooting at the engine, which is almost a full half of the vehicle, might only be -2, but the car gets armor, though a hit decreases mobility.
Meh, that's just what I brain stormed. IMHO. YMMV.
Here's my thought on that: even though the engine may be large, it is also well protected. -4 for that. However, the large turret on the top would be -2 and I would say the tires, being so big on the APC, would also be a -2. They are called out as armored in the fluff in the original books, so I would count that. They are not BTR-60s. :-)
I've never been in a Chase before (!), but here's my understanding of it :
Each participant (see SWD for handling Extras) makes a Free “maneuver roll” (Agility, Driving, Piloting, etc. – see SWD) that determines how well they do that round. You get an Action card for each Success and Raise, and then pick one card (usually the highest, unless you want to avoid a Complication). No Successes means no Action card that round.
So I see that the CS Troops didn't get any Successes, but what about our rolls (not that I'm complaining, just curious)? I'm guessing that Shakti and Burgurk were lumped in with the Private who's driving's roll, but what about Anya and Jaq? Me personally, I'm fine with you rolling for all of us to expedite the PbP process.
Higher cards have “Advantage”, which means you can attack your foes but they can’t attack you.
So Burgurk and Shakti can attack anyone involved, but Anya can't attack the APC at all this round?
If the participant has Advantage, find the Attack “Range” penalties based on the Action Card’s value (see SWD).
So Shakti and I are at no penalty, but *if* Anya could attack, she'd be at a -2? Is that in *addition to* the penalty for targeting the tires (I'm assuming so, just verifying)?
Participants with Action cards who do not have Advantage can take any non-Attack, non-Free Actions the GM decides is reasonable for the situation. Possibilities include Tricks or Tests of Will (possibly without Range penalties), Aim, Push, etc.
So Anya could Aim this round (oops, nope, because she's moving) - ok, so *if* she could Aim this round, she'd be at a +2 to her Shooting next round?
Regarding your last post, why an additional -4 for the engine being "protected"? Isn't that covered by the Armor contribution to the vehicle's Toughness?
Because the engine is inside the vehicle and not exposed to the outside. If it was, then I would rule it a -2.
Each participant (see SWD for handling Extras) makes a Free “maneuver roll” (Agility, Driving, Piloting, etc. – see SWD) that determines how well they do that round. You get an Action card for each Success and Raise, and then pick one card (usually the highest, unless you want to avoid a Complication). No Successes means no Action card that round.
So I see that the CS Troops didn't get any Successes, but what about our rolls (not that I'm complaining, just curious)? I'm guessing that Shakti and Burgurk were lumped in with the Private who's driving's roll, but what about Anya and Jaq? Me personally, I'm fine with you rolling for all of us to expedite the PbP process.
As for the rolls, those of you who are passengers in the vehicles go on the driver's action. I read that both Burgurk and Shakti were getting in the vehicle, and so I have you both down as passengers and going on Pvt. Casey's card. Anya rolled Piloting and Stealth already, so I used those rolls and Jaq is at the mercy of the Coalition Driver and at this moment, isn't free to make actions regarding the combat until she decides to do something from her captivity. So in essence, she can act at any time until she officially joins combat.
Higher cards have “Advantage”, which means you can attack your foes but they can’t attack you.
So Burgurk and Shakti can attack anyone involved, but Anya can't attack the APC at all this round?
Correct.
If the participant has Advantage, find the Attack “Range” penalties based on the Action Card’s value (see SWD).
So Shakti and I are at no penalty, but *if* Anya could attack, she'd be at a -2? Is that in *addition to* the penalty for targeting the tires (I'm assuming so, just verifying)?
Correct.
Participants with Action cards who do not have Advantage can take any non-Attack, non-Free Actions the GM decides is reasonable for the situation. Possibilities include Tricks or Tests of Will (possibly without Range penalties), Aim, Push, etc.
So Anya could Aim this round (oops, nope, because she's moving) - ok, so *if* she could Aim this round, she'd be at a +2 to her Shooting next round?
Correct.
Join combat? Oh man, with no gear and no tools, I'd rather take a shot at seducing Emperor Prosek II.
To avoid cluttering up the game thread, mind if I ask who all is around at this point, and are there any access panels that she can get to?
It is technically up to GM arbitration, and if you story wise in game stop to aim for a few seconds before moving again, mechanics wise, it doesn't change that you are in a chase. Chases are also used to simulate combat when you don't want to use a map, at least in some games. The mechanics simply represent that you were able to get into a good position for that round. I'll allow an Aim action, pending a good description of what happens of course :-)
Because the engine is inside the vehicle and not exposed to the outside. If it was, then I would rule it a -2.
So, you're treating the hood sort of like cover. That makes sense.
Nope, you're right. I spaced that when I was trying to get an update done at work and it made more sense story wise to me. Either way, they didn't do anything to you, but good call.