Savage Rifts and the Tomorrow Legion

Game Master Shadow Bloodmoon

The world ended and now you are a part of its rebirth and aftermath. The Tomorrow Legion protects the innocent from those who would harm, hinder or simply eat them. You are a part of the Legion, make us proud.

Maps


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D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10

Bullet - a bit of metal propelled by an explosive charge. Once it leaves the gun it is subject to gravity and cannot be redirected.

Shell/Artillary - A hollow shell, typically filled with explosives or other ordinance, but launched from what is essentially just a large gun. Like a bullet, once it leaves the gun, it cannot be steered or redirected. The explosive charge detonates, typically on impact or slightly after impact. These guns often have a range measured in kilometers/miles, and targets are usually out of sight of the gun. As a result, detailed instructions from someone near the target are usually required to tell the guns where to aim. They fire up into the air, and gravity brings the shot back down, in what could be called a Rainbow shape (technically a parabola).

Rocket - A shell, again usually filled with explosives, that instead of being launched by an explosion, has it's own rocket engine. Since it has a source of constant thrust, they are able to move in a straight line, unlike artillary. However, they have no guidance, and like a bullet or shell, cannot be redirected after launch. Instead they merely move in a straight line from the point of origin.

Missile - A self propelled explosive device, somewhat like a Rocket, but able to be steered and directed right up until it impacts a target. They can be launched from either the air or ground, and be directed around obstacles in order to reach a target. The method by which they are steered can be either internal or external. An internally guided missile will have an artificial intelligence that steers the missile towards an appropriate target, like a heat source, or a target that matches a specific set of instructions (the vehicle I told you to target, or any model of tank used by the enemy). An externally controlled missile will either guide itself to a laser painted on a target by someone nearby (which does not have to be the person that fired it); or have an operator controlling it by remote, like a drone.


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP

Shakti - thanks for the clarifiation!

I don't know if it was in this game that we had this discussion, but I'm beginning to wonder if this is a fight we should just walk away from.

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Are we still able to call in air support?

Now might be good for that.


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP

DM SBM - do we even have a radio with the frequency of Ariel's contact?


Savage Rifts RotRwT

In the Mountaineer and I believe that Atlas has comms as well...


Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 11*, Toughness 10(4)*; Fighting d12+2 Notice d4+2, Shooting d8, Psionics d6; 10 ISP

Hey guys, quick update - I have an emergency trip to make over the weekend, and I'll be driving for most of it.

Sorry about that! I'll be once again fully available come Monday.

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Is there something that we're waiting on?

I think we're just waiting for the party to start. =)


Savage Rifts RotRwT

Each of you still had actions left, unless all of you were just planning on waiting until the power armor pilots got closer... you have 5 rounds until the air support shows up..


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP

According to the numbers in your post (with a few assumptions), it will take the power armors a full minute (10 rounds) to get right over us (if that's their intention).... Burgurk's pretty useless until they get a *LOT* closer.


Savage Rifts RotRwT

Yet remember there are also 18 men in armor that are much closer as well... they will be on the ground in mere seconds, i.e. next round.


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP

About how far away? Is the map accurate as to distance (~15")? Is the area that the armored men are in included in the air strike targets?


Savage Rifts RotRwT

Yes, the men jumping to the ground are accurate on the map, other than altitude. They will be on the ground at the beginning of next turn. The Power Armor is not, thus I put the extra distance on their name tags. The entire area will be included in the airstrike..


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP

So, I vote that we begin combat initiative now, since the armored soldiers will probably try to advance, giving us some targets we can reach, and wait for the airstrike on the 5th round. Any other suggestions?

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Seems fine to me.


D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10

Sure.


Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 11*, Toughness 10(4)*; Fighting d12+2 Notice d4+2, Shooting d8, Psionics d6; 10 ISP

Now, you may not be able to tell...

...but I'm having an absolute blast playing Sir Humphrey.


Savage Rifts RotRwT

I'm glad. He definitely has some... character. B-)

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Did my HE grenades have any effect on the men?


Savage Rifts RotRwT

If you were shooting at the power armor, no. They have a Medium Burst template, which is about 2 inches or 4 meters. Considering the power armor is much farther behind the troops, they are out of range of the burst.

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Sooooo, can we agree that we did not, in fact, "need" the airstrike?

I think all of us, me especially, don't really "know" how Rifts scale. Like, in D&D, if we come across an ogre, we know that if we're 2nd level, he're in trouble, but if we're in a 5th or better party, this is but light sport.

In the same way, we were full-on panicking at the large body of troops, but they quickly fell to our combined POWER. (More so, they didn't even close to range, so Burgurk didn't get to use his full potential.)

I don't have any larger point here, except that, apparently, we're tougher than we think. ^_^

With that said, we should probably take a rest, or a longer way around, for PP to regenerate for those of us that have that.


Savage Rifts RotRwT

That is the difficult for me is scaling the encounters, so I go with what makes sense to me as a tactician and strategist. Two nine man squads per plane and a small flight of air support in the way of the power armor. Even with the somewhat minimal rules for scaling encounters, that doesn't work out so well with Rifts with the enormous amount of power involved and all the math. That and because it is Rifts, some of you would be far more powered than the others if strictly done by the Savage Worlds way and I would feel obligated to even that out. Instead, I try to give everyone a chance to shine at different things, so all their abilities can come into play.

The other thing is that in Rifts they specifically call out that you guys should feel awesome in combat. You represent some of the baddest people around. That and one of you is quite literally a walking tank...

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Oh yeah, I'm not saying I'm dissatisfied with the combat. Far from it. Very well done!

It simply appeared that, because we have had so little combat experience, we didn't -know- how we would do, hence the air strike.

This is just an example of how we do do.


D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10
DM ShadowBloodmoon wrote:
That and one of you is quite literally a walking tank...

And one is a god...

That being said, combat is just fine. Savage Rifts is hard to scale, probably even more so than the original Rifts.

I dont think there was ever any doubt of the outcome of this fight. If you look back at the beforehand conversation, the airstrike was not intended to save us from fighting, but rather just to help us conserve resources (mostly ISP and PPE. What would should have done was just use minimal effort to just hold them in place till the strike came. However, I honestly have no idea how Sir Humphrey was planning to escape that situation, and it seemed like he was a guaranteed smear if Shakti did not go out and save him. Since she can't Teleport twice in one round (that double action rule), the rest of her self buffed were just to help her survive long enough to get them both out.

As it stands, I still did pretty well for PPE, and after the battle I'm only down by 1/3 (20 of 30 ppe remaining).


Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 11*, Toughness 10(4)*; Fighting d12+2 Notice d4+2, Shooting d8, Psionics d6; 10 ISP

Being both insanely lucky (As per Crazy and Deflection) and insanely fast (Roughly the speed of your average everyday motorised vehicle comes to mind).

And bombing forests does cause a helluvalot of cover bonuses.

Was it an absolutely insane plan? Yes. Would it have worked? Who knows? Did I feel it was in character to run away with explosions behind my back? You're g*#~++n right.

But, the player says a thanks for the teleport, and so will Sir Humphrey!


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D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10

The player says 'No Problem.' The character will probably tear a strip off ya...


Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 11*, Toughness 10(4)*; Fighting d12+2 Notice d4+2, Shooting d8, Psionics d6; 10 ISP

Noted! I'll try to limit running away from explosions in the last minute, then.

Buzzkill...


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP
Atlas wrote:
In the same way, we were full-on panicking at the large body of troops, but they quickly fell to our combined POWER. (More so, they didn't even close to range, so Burgurk didn't get to use his full potential.)

Well, I did eventually get close enough to one group of soldiers so that I had no penalty to my Powers. But...I'm only making one attack per round, whereas Atlas and Shakti are making 6 or 8. Even Humphrey is making 3 attacks per round. Kinda feeling like I'm not doing enough in the fight...

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You could totally do more in battle if you were a combat cyborg.

But then we couldn't have two in the party so I'd have to make a Robot Armor Pilot. XD


D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10

The 6-8 attacks were not typical for either of us. Quickness was causing the big jump, as it gives you two full turns. I believe it is on the Mind-Melter list if you feel like acquiring it later on, or just stay close to Shakti in the first round of a fight (as it only has a Touch range). To be honest, it might be the most broken ability in the game.

Aside from that, we were both using high-rate of fire weapons. Atlas' shooting skill is high enough that he can afford the MAP for using his full auto railgun and auto-grenade launcher in each round, but he is only using two actions to do it, the rest is just more dakka. Shakti does it by having six arms.

I don't think the answer is in trying to be more like us (though we are very different from each other), but rather in doing things differently. The main advantage of Psi attacks in this game is that by the rules, non-physical Powers do not affect mechs or robots, but only the pilot inside. That means you have the ability to target the meanest, baddest, heavily armoured mofo among the enemy and just melt his brain. Against a guy in a glitter boy or Super-Samas, either Atlas or myself would be counting on volume of fire to allow us to get one lucky hit to penetrate armour, which we might not even be able to reach (the best AP grenade is only AP 8, compared to the default armour bonus of a GB which is 24(18)), where you could easily one shot him.

I think it's a work smarter, not harder situation. Adding some new powers could be useful, such as Quickness, or even Puppet if you want to get really nasty. Boost/Drain is also a viscous power if used offensively; Greater Drain has a 2x Int range, and can reduce a guy's Fighting, Shooting, Strength, or Stamina stats by 4 ranks! That is a brutal debuff, especially against a boss-type. I think Burgurk offers some critical powers that will be extremely useful. However, I think it might mean moving away from the Mental-Smasher archetype, as in this setting, weapons can do the same or better for cheaper - though bursters can be pretty awesome too, and that would likely be the way to go if one wanted to do physical damage - at peak power they are throwing 3x 6d8 fireballs per turn that each have a medium blast radius, and that is even before they add ISP.

Another option could be reskinning the Burster as a TK fighter, smashing things instead of burning them. Rifts had such a class (called something lame like a 'Zapper') so they already exist in-world.


D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10

Edit: just playing with some numbers...
Self-buffing a bit could work pretty well too. Burgurk could try this:

Round 1a: Greater Boost Psionics Skill (Psionics: 1d10 - 4 ⇒ (6) - 4 = 21d6 ⇒ 2), Quickness 1d12 + 1 - 2 ⇒ (9) + 1 - 2 = 81d6 - 2 ⇒ (1) - 2 = -1

Round 1b: Greater Smite: Bolt Psionics: 1d12 + 1 - 2 ⇒ (9) + 1 - 2 = 81d6 - 2 ⇒ (4) - 2 = 2 Raise! , Bolt Onslaught
Bolt onslaught: 1d12 + 1 - 2 + 1d12 ⇒ (12) + 1 - 2 + (1) = 121d12 + 1 ⇒ (11) + 1 = 121d12 + 1 ⇒ (8) + 1 = 91d12 + 1 ⇒ (5) + 1 = 61d6 ⇒ 6

Bolt 1 Damage + raise: 3d6 + 8 + 1d6 + 1d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 6) + 8 + (4) + (1) = 25
Bolt 2 Damage + raise: 3d6 + 8 + 1d6 + 1d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 2) + 8 + (6) + (3) = 26
Bolt 3 Damage + raise: 3d6 + 8 + 1d6 + 1d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 5) + 8 + (5) + (6) = 28
Bolt 4 Damage: 3d6 + 8 + 2d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 6) + 8 + (6, 2) = 30

That is all in one turn. Plus the buffs would all be in place for at least three rounds, allowing you to do a Bolt Onslaught each of two turns per round, for 8 bolts of 3d6+8, with a d12+1 skill (d12+3 if you get the raise on that Boost attempt). That is actually more damage output than Shakti had in this fight. Basically, I think if he were willing to spend a few more ISP, or buff-up in a way to help himself up his power, he has every capability of keeping up or outclassing us.

Edit: Oops, just checked and I was wrong; quickness is not on the Mind Melter list. Still you could use the same strategy, either with Shakti casting it on him, spreading the buffs over two rounds, or just getting really lucky. Either way, he could still be spitting out four shots of 3d6+8 per round.


Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 11*, Toughness 10(4)*; Fighting d12+2 Notice d4+2, Shooting d8, Psionics d6; 10 ISP

Hrm.

That was a long post! Sir Humphrey is also rather effective against big angry individuals, though he struggles a little against large numbers of opponents.


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP
Shakti wrote:
The main advantage of Psi attacks in this game is that by the rules, non-physical Powers do not affect mechs or robots, but only the pilot inside. That means you have the ability to target the meanest, baddest, heavily armoured mofo among the enemy and just melt his brain.

Unfortunately, DM SBM has ruled that my bolts have to get thru armor. If that restriction was removed, I might could use my no-MAP 4 bolts of 3d6 and have a chance at doing enough damage for a Wound. That eats up 8 PP per round, however.

Shakti wrote:
though bursters can be pretty awesome too, and that would likely be the way to go if one wanted to do physical damage - at peak power they are throwing 3x 6d8 fireballs per turn that each have a medium blast radius

How are you getting 3x 6d8? The mega-burst power is 3d12, their built-in "bolt" is 4d6, and I have no idea how you're getting 3x (or did you not mention that that's with a MAP? Wait a minute, in SWD, you can't take the exact same action twice in the same round...so confused...).

Can Smite be cast upon a Power? The description specifically says "on a weapon". If Smite can be cast on top of Bolt, that would be awesome!

It seems that if I had Quickness active, I could actually cast *eight* 3d6 Bolts per round (at 16 PP per round, however, I wouldn't last long, and it would take 8 hours just to recover 16 PP!).

So, if I could ignore armor, and cast Smite on my Bolts, I could do 3d6+4 or +8 four times per round, without Quickness, and have a decent chance of inflicting Wounds. That would eat up my PP pretty quick (I could last 8 rounds, but take 1.5 *days* to completely recover!), but at least I'd be damaging more targets per round!


Savage Rifts RotRwT

According to the interaction of magic and tech rules that I have read, damaging powers, like Bolt, etc. still have to go through armor to be effective. Other powers, like Puppet, Boost, etc, do not. That said, I heard that with the upcoming new book updates, there will be some changes regarding powers, but I don't know what they are at the moment. I haven't yet read anything to the contrary, but if you guys know of something, send it my way.

As for Smite, I will have to do more research on that. The power reads that it is for weapons, but the idea is that it is specifically for weapons. That said, since what it does is essentially boost the damage of an attack and it costs more ISP, I'd allow Smite to affect Powers.


D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10
Burgurk wrote:
Shakti wrote:
The main advantage of Psi attacks in this game is that by the rules, non-physical Powers do not affect mechs or robots, but only the pilot inside. That means you have the ability to target the meanest, baddest, heavily armoured mofo among the enemy and just melt his brain.
Unfortunately, DM SBM has ruled that my bolts have to get thru armor. If that restriction was removed, I might could use my no-MAP 4 bolts of 3d6 and have a chance at doing enough damage for a Wound. That eats up 8 PP per round, however.

Yes, powers like Bolt and Burst are usually ruled physical attacks that have to go through armour. You had mentioned some mind-melting power, and you mentioned a while back you and SBM had worked out some off-the-books powers, so I thought you might have something more brain specific. If not, any of the non-damage powers would still bypass armour; Blind, Confusion, Lower, Puppet, Slumber, and Stun would all bypass armour completely.

Burgurk wrote:
Shakti wrote:
though bursters can be pretty awesome too, and that would likely be the way to go if one wanted to do physical damage - at peak power they are throwing 3x 6d8 fireballs per turn that each have a medium blast radius
How are you getting 3x 6d8? The mega-burst power is 3d12, their built-in "bolt" is 4d6, and I have no idea how you're getting 3x (or did you not mention that that's with a MAP? Wait a minute, in SWD, you can't take the exact same action twice in the same round...so confused...).

Default Burster Flame Bolt Power does 4d6 (12/24/48)

Improved Flame Bolt edge increases the damage to 6d6
Greater Flame Bolt edge increases the damage to 6d8 (15/30/60)
Flame Blast edge gives you a Medium Burst template for 1 PPE and LBT for 2 PPE
Rapid Flame Bolt Gives the Burster a RoF of 3, and can be combined with all the other Flame Bolt edges.

Human character with regular flaws gets 3 Edges at creation, and the Born a Hero rule allows him to select edges of any level. I'd probably take Improved, Greater, and Rapid, and take Flame Blast once I'd reached Seasoned. 6d8 blasts with RoF 3, explosive blasts at the next level, with 0 ISP required until I start making things go BOOM at Seasoned.

Burgurk wrote:

Can Smite be cast upon a Power? The description specifically says "on a weapon". If Smite can be cast on top of Bolt, that would be awesome!

It seems that if I had Quickness active, I could actually cast *eight* 3d6 Bolts per round (at 16 PP per round, however, I wouldn't last long, and it would take 8 hours just to recover 16 PP!).

So, if I could ignore armor, and cast Smite on my Bolts, I could do 3d6+4 or +8 four times per round, without Quickness, and have a decent chance of inflicting Wounds. That would eat up my PP pretty quick (I could last 8 rounds, but take 1.5 *days* to completely recover!), but at least I'd be damaging more targets per round!

My understanding is that Smite can be cast on anything, including a creature, in which case all his natural attacks are affected. GM might feel differently of course, by we could check the official forum for rulings, and I think I'm right...

In regards to bypassing armour, I guess you would need a different power of some sort that allowed that. Maybe SBM would allow you to take something similar to the Mystic's Soul Blast?

Soul Blast wrote:

For direct damage powers, increase the base cost by 2 PPE to ignore all physical armor (including power and robot armor), but targets add half their Spirit to Toughness when

determining the damage effect.

The obvious limitation would be that it could only affect things with a sentient mind.

In regards to the ISP cost... I can't help you much there. You would burn through your reserve pretty quickly. Rapid/Improved Recovery would help a lot of course. An then there is the Exceptional Rapid Recharge edge from Tomorrow Legion. If you had all those, even you could fully recharge from 0 in only 5 hours. The other way to go would be Soul Drain, so you would always have a theoretical reserve.


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP
Shakti wrote:
6d8 blasts with RoF 3...with 0 ISP required

I want that! DM SBM, can I create another character? Seriously, I've never been really happy with Burgurk's abilities...


Savage Rifts RotRwT

I know... if these guys are cool with it, we can write Burgurk out, maybe blaze of glory style and then bring in the new guy. Pun totally unintentional, but it works..


D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10

What about just retconning Burgurk's abilities? I think I have a partial work up somewhere I was doing for a player of a Telekinetic version of the Burster. I didn't finish it as he ended up going with something different, but it probably wouldn't take much to do.


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP

That call would be up to DM SBM, but I would be open to considering it if it's ok with him. But I can think of several issues with a TK Burster. Would his available Powers all be the same? How would the Burster's fire-related abilities carry over to TK? Like, reading information from fires, and immunity to all fire? Do they just go away? That would nerf the Burster quite a bit...


D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10

I'm thinking comparable, but disparate powers.

Things that make sense to me would be a TK would be a force field instead of Aura of Flames (defensive only, instead of the burny aspect the Aura, but more powerful in terms of the armour bonus due to losing Fire-walking and the offensive part of Aura of Flames), an at-will low level TK affect instead of Fire Mastery, and perhaps a modest flight power to round things out and add flavour.

Other than that, the other Burster features would need only minor tweeks. If SBM is willing to entertain it, I can finish off my notes and show it for review/approval.

The main drawback of converting Burgurk is that Simvan dont get a starting bonus Edge, so you wouldnt quite be able to afford Greater Flame Bolt and Rapid Fire, only one or the other.

Edit: As a workaround, if his being Simvan has never specifically come up, we could just change him to similarly monstrous looking custom D-Bee that is more suited to the new class.


Savage Rifts RotRwT

I'd allow this change up after reading it a bit. That said, they recently released a document that has the proposed changes to go from SWDE to SWADE for Savage Rifts. I haven't fully read through it, but we can consider making some updates and changes if we want to upgrade to that edition. I leave that to you guys.


D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10

Here is my write up of the PSYCHO-K

Red text is fluff I have not yet rewritten from the Burster. I tried to keep the abilities comparable to the Burster, but altered to go along with the new theme.

Rewrites of the Burster Edges are included after the class.

Feedback is of course welcome.


D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10

Quick read of the SWADE updates (I'm reading someone's summary of them, not the official source) looks like all good stuff for me. In addition, two of my powers would get condensed into one, giving me another power I could choose.


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP

Without access to a copy of SWADE for everyone, I'd rather not change. There are *many* new ways of doing things (from combat to the old Tricks and Tests of Will), in addition to many changes in the magic system. Which ones would we use or not use?

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Can one of you with access to this document that has the changes in it make that available to those of us who do not?

Also, what say we continue talk of a character change at a low-boil until after our CLIMACTIC BATTLE.

Afterward, that is probably a good place to swap out as we will. (Also, character death might make the choice more relevant. ^_^)
Also also, I'm still debating on making a mech pilot. O, I do thirst to feel the rumble of large lasers across the battlefield....

(One issue with the Combat Cyborg is that he kinda starts out at max. Like, there's not much more chrome to cram on to that big frame. And it's not like he can get a bigger gun because he starts out with the biggest thing he can hold. With a Mech you can always play with the loadout.)


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP

Sorry Atlas, I'm too excited about the new PC to not talk about it now...

I'm thinking I'd like to keep Burgurk as a Simvan, with all his original (non-Mind-Melter) traits, skills, and PC creation stuff, just change his psionic abilities.

DM SBM, are you ok with that?

Having looked at Shakti's current "TK" version, I'm more inclined to go with the original Burster "class" (no offense). But if you did increase the Force Aura's Armor (say, to 8 or 10), and added flying (maybe as a 0 ISP action for levitation, but with more speed for spending ISP?), I'd be more interested. And, how would you feel about making Mind Over Matter cost 5 ISP *instead* of spending a Benny? Having to do both seems kind of harsh.


D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10

I've thick skin; I dont take much personally.

The values are all generally all just shooting from the hip, so should be up for debate. I've discovered over the years when any two people convert something from one game to another, each will do it differently.

I could see bumping the Force Aura bonus up a bit, as it is a lot less offensive than the flaming aura. However, see what I did with the improved Aura edge; you add half your Spirit as a Toughness bonus, not armour, meaning it would not be subject to AP. It is also likely to be your highest stat. That seems pretty awesome to me. Maybe I could incorporate some aspect of that into the base version, so you get a more modest toughness bonus there too, instead of just armour.

I had thought of flight as an option off the cuff, but as I was going through, I thought of the Psionics to Soak idea, and that seemed cooler - especially as Flight is still available as a starting power. As to why o made it cost 5 ppe... I just pulled out a number at random. Soaking always costs a benny's, so I dont think this power should get you out of that. I could see a reduced ppe cost, say 3, or even potentially 1 or 0, but it depends on how things balance overall. Again, Psionics is likely to be your highest stat, higher even than your Spirit, so being able to use your very best skill to soak is pretty significant.

I'm happy to discuss anything of course, and nothing is set in stone. SbM's thoughts will be important too, since he'd need to sign off on the class.


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP

I'm ok with an Edge that adds 3 or 4 more points to my "Toughness+Armor", that's what I was asking for regarding Force Aura.

Just as a by-the-way, how would you feel about changing the 6 Armor in Force Aura to 6 *Deflection*? That would help balance the loss of Force Aura doing high amounts of damage.

Or, conversely, have Force Aura replace Strength with 2*Spirit damage (that would be approximately equal to 3d6 when Spirit is d8)? But that would become overpowered at higher Spirits.

What if the Force Aura itself just adds 3d6 damage, "telekinetically" (by adding some extra "oomph" [Force] to the attack)? If I had a preference for these 3 options, I'd pick 6 Deflection, but it's up to you.

I'd be happy with the Psionics to Soak costing 0 or 1 ISP, and having to spend a Benny.

I also have some concerns about TK Mastery - as written, it can't do any damage on its own, so I'd *have* to have large (no more than 100 pounds right now) objects within range (12") to pick up and use as weapons to maximize the damage the ability can do with it. That all depends on DM SBM...

Also, now that I look at it, what kinds of uses are you thinking of for Kinetic Mastery? With a Spirit of d6, I can lift 30 pounds - what could I do with that?


D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10

I suspect that SBM hasn't weighed in yet as he probably just hasn't had time or energy to read through what I've written, and then compare it to the original to weigh the power equivalence.

Burgurk wrote:

I'm ok with an Edge that adds 3 or 4 more points to my "Toughness+Armor", that's what I was asking for regarding Force Aura.

Just as a by-the-way, how would you feel about changing the 6 Armor in Force Aura to 6 *Deflection*? That would help balance the loss of Force Aura doing high amounts of damage.

I think 6 Deflection would be pretty stacked, especially if it stacked with the deflection power. You could end up with -12 on attacks, which would make you hitable only by fluke raises, and if one happened, you'd probably get squashed like a bug. However, some mix of Armour and Deflection might be more reasonable. Lets leave the 6 armour, but add +2 deflection (equal to a Crazy or Juicer), and leave both able to stack with Armour and Deflection, should you use them.

Burgurk wrote:

Or, conversely, have Force Aura replace Strength with 2*Spirit damage (that would be approximately equal to 3d6 when Spirit is d8)? But that would become overpowered at higher Spirits.

What if the Force Aura itself just adds 3d6 damage, "telekinetically" (by adding some extra "oomph" [Force] to the attack)? If I had a preference for these 3 options, I'd pick 6 Deflection, but it's up to you.

There is a sort-of model to work from with Spirit to Damage in the Cyber Knight:

Psi-Sword: Str + (Spirit x 2)
Improved Psi-Sword: Str + (Spirit x 3)

It wouldn't be too hard to stat up a starting Cyber Knight is Spirit d12 and Improved Psi Sword. He could be doing something like d6+3d12 AP 8 with every attack, or AP 4 if he were dual wielding.

Obviously I don't think this class should be as good in melee as a Cyber-Knight, but it does provides a baseline.

I think the Psycho-K should be purely mental when compared to something like the Cyber-Knight, so I think Spirit in place of strength is a good concept for them.

Now that I think about it, I have seen some of the builds on the boards say that the Burster can actually end up more powerful in melee than the Cyber-Knight, so maybe it is not that crazy to compare them. Afterall, the idea is to build a balanced class, so if the next person wanted to come along and make a melee Psycho-K, they could do it successfully.

So what would it look like if we made the default ability Spirit x 2 in place of Str (+ weapon damage, if applicable), and increase to Spirit x3 with the improved Edge? If we are using the Cyberknight as the baseline, I think the Psycho ends up much tougher, as it is easy to get a weapon value well above what is possible for a Cyber-Knight's strength, such as a Chain Sword (2d8), so that is overshooting.

Base:
Cyberknight d6+2d12 AP 2 in each hand (Average damage = 15.5)
Psycho-K 2d12+2d8 AP 2 in each hand (Average damage = 22)
Burster 3d6+d6+2d8 AP 2 in each hand (Average damage = 23)

Improved:
Cyberknight d6+3d12 AP 4 in each hand (Average damage = 22)
Psycho-K 3d12+2d8 AP 2 in each hand (Average damage = 26.5)
Burster 3d8+d6+2d8 AP 2 in each hand (Average damage = 26)
(each with the same strength, spirit and number of edges required)

Looky at that... After remembering what folk had said about the melee Burster, I added one in as a control, and it actually works out pretty close. Maybe that does make sense...

Of course, the whole reason we were talking about increased defensive power or a flying option was that the power was not as intense offensively; if that changes, then we have to nix that change as well to leave them more equivalent. Keeping the two version of the concept (Burster and Psycho) as close as possible mechanically makes the most sense for game balance, so I think that is what we should do.

Of course, the Burster could max his Str instead of Spirit as I did in the example above, giving him a slight edge, and with Improved Aura he still have the area affect power, which this TK version doesn't have, so may the improved defense still works, but we'll have to nix the idea of any free flight option.

Burgurk wrote:
I'd be happy with the Psionics to Soak costing 0 or 1 ISP, and having to spend a Benny.

Lets make it 1, as it makes sense that if you are exhausted and have no ISP left that you can't do it.

Burgurk wrote:

I also have some concerns about TK Mastery - as written, it can't do any damage on its own, so I'd *have* to have large (no more than 100 pounds right now) objects within range (12") to pick up and use as weapons to maximize the damage the ability can do with it. That all depends on DM SBM...

Also, now that I look at it, what kinds of uses are you thinking of for Kinetic Mastery? With a Spirit of d6, I can lift 30 pounds - what could I do with that?

Since Telekinesis is still its own power, I thought the free version should not be as powerful. If you look at the original Fire Mastery power, I had the same question about what exactly it could be used for (besides putting out the fires you yourself started, when the fighting is over).

That being said, picture any of the following: retrieving weapons, pulling handguns out of holsters, flicking on safeties, ejecting weapon's magazines/energy cells, pulling triggers at inopportune times, pulling pins on grenades, tying shoelaces together, opening/closing doors, activating buttons/consoles, moving debris into someone's path, passing equipment to a teammate, tripping attacks, and so on. And unlike using the TK power, doing any of these things can be done as a free action. However, I believe it is generally intended to be a utility power, not a combat ability.

That being said 5lbs per spirit is pretty mincy, so I increased it to 25 per Spirit with the Improved edge version so it has the potential to get a little more powerful later on (half the raise value spending ISP on the Telekinesis power would get you, and all for free).


Male Simvan Mind Melter; Wounds 0, Bennies 3/3; Parry 5, Toughness 13(8); Heal d4, Intim d6, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Psionics d10; 70 ISP

So, Shakti, to summarize, are you ok with these changes :

Force Aura : Let's leave the 6 armour, but add +2 deflection (equal to a Crazy or Juicer), and leave both able to stack with Armour and Deflection, should you use them.

Psi-Sword (part of Force Aura? Or separate, but Free Action to activate?) : Str + (Spirit x 2)
Improved Psi-Sword [Edge] : Str + (Spirit x 3)

Just for my own information, where did you get the dice value for the comparison examples (my guesses are in parentheses) :
Cyberknight - d6 (weapon) + 2d12 (2*Spirit)
Psycho-K - 2d12 (2*Spirit) + 2d8 (???)
Burster - 3d6 (Fiery Aura) + d6 (weapon) + 2d8 (???)

Mind Over Matter (Psionics to Soak) costs 1 ISP, and spend a Benny.

Regarding the options you listed for Kinetic Mastery, if I were DM, I'd require an opposed roll for most of those actions (that affect opponents or equipment on opponents), which greatly reduces its usefulness. But I'm ok with it as-is, thanks for the examples.

I'm liking this more and more!


D-Bee Mystic: Size: 0, Parry 8, Pace 6, Toughness 14 (7), Charisma -2, Bennies: 5, PPE: 10/20, Staff PPE: 0/10, ISP: 10/10

I was using Psi Sword as an example, not meaning to imply the Psycho would get a psi sword ability. You could of course still aim to take the Psi-Blade edge if you really wanted to. The numbers I was using were for a maxed out Spirit of d12 and a Str of d6 for each a Cyberknight, a Burster, and the new Psycho class.

So a cyber knight would have
Standard: str+(spirit x2) = d6+2d12 (average of 16.5)
Improved: str+(spirit x3) = d6+3d12 (average of 23)

The Burster in this example is using a Chain longsword, which is one of the highest damage commonplace one handed weapons. It does 2d8, which is where that number comes from.

Standard: str + weapon + aura = d6+2d8+3d6 (Average 22)
Improved: str + weapon + aura = d6+2d8+3d8 (Average 26)

I assumed the Psycho would be using a similar weapon to the Burster, since the Aura itself doesnt have a damage rating, though it could used like strength to do unarmed damage. Since he is using his Spirit instead of strength, he may or may not actually have the swords in his hands, or have his hands empty, but his Aura holding the swords (which I think is a pretty cool image). But, assuming a chain longsword as the weapon being weilded:

Standard: str (spirit x 2) + weapon = 2d12+2d8 (Average 22)
Improved: str (spirit x 3) + weapon = 3d12+2d8 (Average 28.5)

For some reason my average values were different this time - must have made a carrying error in this post or the last. I think this one is accurate though.

Does that all make sense?

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