Last question (I promise!) - do we gain a rank in each of our skills gained from being in the campaign?
Jack: can Naia swap out the Combat Expertise feat gained by your variant Fighter at 1st level?
Reasons:
1: She will never use it.
2: She does not have the Intelligence prereq of 13.
You get it automatically through the fighter class and the prereq is bypassed due to it being a part of the class. You don't need the 13 INT.
This option affords you the ability, when needed, to increase your AC at the expense of your attack. It is an inherit part of the variant class. Now I would be open to it be "swapped" for something else via an archetype modification but we will need to discuss that.
Also, have we been given any monetary rewards yet? Naia has some purchases to make.
No, You have not. Part of the meeting is to dispense the 50gp reward but you also have all the loot from the house and the goblin camp. I believe most of which is being held by D'ogryn and is back in his room at the Mermaid. This includes all the stuff found there as well as what was found on the stranger and his friends. Except for the documents in the chest that is on D'ogryn as he and Soros reviewed them at Soros's home (OOC)...
Last question (I promise!) - do we gain a rank in each of our skills gained from being in the campaign?
I am not sure I follow. You get to allocate your skills as you see fit. Remember that you have 4 skills not 2 skills per level advancement plus 1 for being human (5 total plus any INT bonus).
Will have a post up tomorrow morning sometime
Jack: can Naia swap out the Combat Expertise feat gained by your variant Fighter at 1st level?
Reasons:
1: She will never use it.
2: She does not have the Intelligence prereq of 13.
Something to keep in mind is at 2nd level you get Improved Combat Maneuvers (+2 to all combat maneuvers attempted) on top of Bravery +1 and the bonus feat.
Last question (I promise!) - do we gain a rank in each of our skills gained from being in the campaign?I am not sure I follow. You get to allocate your skills as you see fit. Remember that you have 4 skills not 2 skills per level advancement plus 1 for being human (5 total plus any INT bonus).
I seem to remember getting an extra 2 “campaign” skill points, and have them spent upon creation... this is above the increase your variant gives Fighters...
Jack: can Naia swap out the Combat Expertise feat gained by your variant Fighter at 1st level?
Reasons:
1: She will never use it.
2: She does not have the Intelligence prereq of 13.You get it automatically through the fighter class and the prereq is bypassed due to it being a part of the class. You don't need the 13 INT.
This option affords you the ability, when needed, to increase your AC at the expense of your attack. It is an inherit part of the variant class.
Yep, I see what it does (it is currently listed in my alias) but I would never use it. Full Defense maybe, but not a partial bonus - seems too risky both ways - I’d want to totally shore up my defense, or totally make sure I hit.
Now I would be open to it be "swapped" for something else via an archetype modification but we will need to discuss that.
Well, I’m not sure I follow this. ;) What archetypes are there for your bariant Fighter, and does one of them allow for swapping out of Combat Expertise for another Combat feat? If so, I’ll take that one. ;)
Also, have we been given any monetary rewards yet? Naia has some purchases to make.No, You have not. Part of the meeting is to dispense the 50gp reward but you also have all the loot from the house and the goblin camp. I believe most of which is being held by D'ogryn and is back in his room at the Mermaid. This includes all the stuff found there as well as what was found on the stranger and his friends. Except for the documents in the chest that is on D'ogryn as he and Soros reviewed them at Soros's home (OOC)...
Hmm. Well, Naia needs 20 gp to purchase a Net, or 30 for a Snag-net if you allow them. Or she will attempt to repurpose a net from home using a combination of Craft: Weapons and Profession: Sailor, whichever you judge the most pertinent.
Never mind on skills...found this in your initial Recruitment post:
Background Skills: Each player gets 2 skill points for either Craft, Knowledge, or Profession at 1st level. These are considered class skills. No additional background skills are awarded past 1st level.
You can choose to take a –1 penalty on melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the dodge bonus increases by +1. You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an attack or a full-attack action with a melee weapon. The effects of this feat last until your next turn.
I would just like to add my two cents in here. You most likely know all of this but I felt the need to point these things out. I have had some players in our RL game that missed these details.
I understand your view of the feat Naia and respect your view. Here are something to think about this feat.
It is a dodge bonus which stacks and more importantly dodge bonuses apply against touch attacks.
This is not an action..you can decided to use this feat while taking a standard action to attack or during a full attack.
It also can be used while fighting defensively but not the total defense action.
That is all I have to say..lol
It is your character and you should do what you feel is best for that character's development. I do not mean to step on anyone's toes.
I seem to remember getting an extra 2 “campaign” skill points, and have them spent upon creation... this is above the increase your variant gives Fighters...Last question (I promise!) - do we gain a rank in each of our skills gained from being in the campaign?I am not sure I follow. You get to allocate your skills as you see fit. Remember that you have 4 skills not 2 skills per level advancement plus 1 for being human (5 total plus any INT bonus).
Correct. You got two background skill points but only at creation.
I will put together a list of treasure. Sometime today..maybe.
There is a party magic and treasure list up top on the left hand side you can work off of.
I know it is not 100% up to date but it is pretty accurate.
Jack
Jack: can Naia swap out the Combat Expertise feat gained by your variant Fighter at 1st level?
Reasons:
1: She will never use it.
2: She does not have the Intelligence prereq of 13.You get it automatically through the fighter class and the prereq is bypassed due to it being a part of the class. You don't need the 13 INT.
This option affords you the ability, when needed, to increase your AC at the expense of your attack. It is an inherit part of the variant class.
Yep, I see what it does (it is currently listed in my alias) but I would never use it. Full Defense maybe, but not a partial bonus - seems too risky both ways - I’d want to totally shore up my defense, or totally make sure I hit.
Now I would be open to it be "swapped" for something else via an archetype modification but we will need to discuss that.Well, I’m not sure I follow this. ;) What archetypes are there for your variant Fighter, and does one of them allow for swapping out of Combat Expertise for another Combat feat? If so, I’ll take that one. ;)
What Jovich stated. :)
It stacks as it is a dodge bonus. This is especially important if you are facing an adversary that is more capable of hitting you than you are of hitting him and you are waiting on the calvary to come and fighting defensively (now your bonus is -5 to hit but you have a +3 AC) at lower levels. The main reason for the benefit is often the fighter is the front line fighter ( for obvious reasons) and with the wound threshold, it makes sense to give the fighter the ability to hold their ground against a better opponent. Since the bonus scales as you gain levels it benefits your fighter if there is a need to fight defensively. There is also plenty of feats that boost the Fighting Defensively as well.
Combat Expertise (Combat)
You can increase your defense at the expense of your accuracy.
Prerequisite: Int 13 not required for a Fighter
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the dodge bonus increases by +1. You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an attack or a full-attack action with a melee weapon. The effects of this feat last until your next turn.
Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action
You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 to AC until the start of your next turn.
Total Defense
You can defend yourself as a standard action. You get a +4 dodge bonus to your AC for 1 round. Your AC improves at the start of this action. You can’t combine total defense with fighting defensively or with the benefit of the Combat Expertise feat. You can’t make attacks of opportunity while using total defense.
There is a feat also called Total Defense Expert which gives you a +6 instead of a +4.
Just throwing my thoughts out there on it.
The archetype comment... I was just saying since we are using a variant fighter we can take an archetype and modify it to swap the Combat Expertise Feat for another benefit in the existing archetype that is reasonable if you like. I have done this before when using it.
Jack
FYI.
This is good news for us. Hustonj is going to resume posting so Rabalar is now back in the mix. I will adjust our group discussion accordingly so that only Edan escorts Thout back to his home.
I am glad Hustonj is back and he can resume playing with us as he is an original member of the group and a great member of the party.
Jack
This is experimental for now, one game only.
We've got a routine built at home, again, so I want to see if I can fit this back in without too much struggle and heartache. This game provides me a lot of entertainment without me having found myself as the default leader. This group is far more worried about who has an idea or relevant knowledge than wanting someone else to make a decision. I prefer that.
Once the older grandkid goes to bed, I'll have to work on leveling and reading the 262 game posts before I'll post. 262 posts. Might not get there tonight!
As for the Fighter Combat Expertise bit . . ..
If an archetype appeals and you trade it out for something else, cool. Otherwise, it is really just a good option to have that you may never use. Want an example of another place that happens?
Elephant in the Room Unchained Rogue gets free training with the common agility combat maneuvers, but doesn't get a bonus to offset the reduced BAB, so the effectiveness where it normally matters is fairly low. Having the options available can still be very useful, at the right time.
How about the normal Endurance for Rangers? It is another point where many players don't see a meaningful benefit. Those less concerned with armor check penalties enjoy being able to sleep wearing medium armor, but that's the common extent of perceived benefit.
As for the Fighter Combat Expertise bit . . ..
If an archetype appeals and you trade it out for something else, cool. Otherwise, it is really just a good option to have that you may never use. Want an example of another place that happens?
Elephant in the Room Unchained Rogue gets free training with the common agility combat maneuvers, but doesn't get a bonus to offset the reduced BAB, so the effectiveness where it normally matters is fairly low. Having the options available can still be very useful, at the right time.
How about the normal Endurance for Rangers? It is another point where many players don't see a meaningful benefit. Those less concerned with armor check penalties enjoy being able to sleep wearing medium armor, but that's the common extent of perceived benefit.
Something else to bring up about Endurance. Licitus (Thout) mentioned this about Endurance and I updated the Endurance feat to highlight these points. It helps reduce the penalties for Wound Thresholds and Sleep Deprivation tracks. Also, note the feats Twist the Knife and Critical Cure as these could be important as well for their perspective characters.
Wound Threshold Feats
The following feats are either new feats or feats adapted to work with the wound threshold and Sleep Deprivation Track system.
Critical Cure
Your healing is more effective if your patient is badly injured.
Benefit(s): When you cast a conjuration (healing) spell, it cures 1 additional hit point if the recipient of the healing is grazed, wounded, or critical. The additional healing increases by an additional 1 point at caster level 6th, and every 6 caster levels thereafter.
Endurance
Harsh conditions or long exertions do not easily tire you.
Benefit(s): You reduce the penalty from being grazed, wounded, or critical by 1 (to –0, –1, and –2, respectively).
In addition, you gain a +4 bonus on the following checks and saves: Swim checks to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion, Constitution checks to continue running, Constitution checks to avoid nonlethal damage from a forced march, Constitution checks to hold your breath, Constitution checks to avoid nonlethal damage from starvation or thirst, Fortitude saves to avoid nonlethal damage from hot or cold environments, and Fortitude saves to resist damage from suffocation.
You can sleep in light or medium armor without becoming fatigued.
Reduce Sleep Deprivation track by one.
Normal: A character without this feat who sleeps in medium or heavier armor is fatigued the next day. The character who loses hit points follow the Wound Threshold Track normally. The character who is sleep deprived follows the Sleep Deprivation track normally.
Twist the Knife (Combat)
You’re especially dangerous against enemies who are suffering from injuries.
Benefit(s): You gain a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls against grazed, wounded, or critical enemies.
Sure. Give me a free feat every level and some of these might see use. ;) Pathfinder characters are feat starved - the options are out there, but ....oh, never mind. :)
I like Twist the Knife. Good, solid option.
Anyhoo, I guess I’ll just stick with the standard Variant. Pretty sure Naia is leveled up.
FEATS
Swapped out:
Power Attack
Cleave
Replacements:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Net
Deft Maneuvers
New Feat:
Precise Shot
****************************************
+11 HP
+1 Fort, BAB, CMB, CMD
Skill ranks (6: 1 human, 1 Int, 4 fighter):
1 Acrobatics
1 Stealth
1 Craft: Weapon
1 Perception
1 Survival
1 Swim
Anyhoo, I guess I’ll just stick with the standard Variant. Pretty sure Naia is leveled up.
FEATS
Swapped out:
Power Attack
CleaveReplacements:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Net
Deft ManeuversNew Feat:
Precise Shot
****************************************
+11 HP
+1 Fort, BAB, CMB, CMDSkill ranks (6: 1 human, 1 Int, 4 fighter):
1 Acrobatics
1 Stealth
1 Craft: Weapon
1 Perception
1 Survival
1 Swim
I seem to recall telling you this early on that Power Attack is now an option and not a feat. So you can still keep it :)
The benefit is fighters get it at first while everyone else has to wait until BAB +3.
Jack
Ok. I won’t list it, but know that I have it as an option. If I didn’t say it before: good call!
I think I have leveled Rabalar tonight, as well. Took advantage of the fact my daughter is home tonight to spend LOT more time on the computer than I can most nights.
Sine I'm not used to the format you want the character sheet in, I had to rebuild him from scratch, first, so that I could level him up with confidence that I was doing it properly.
Got me looking at the Modified Feats versus the Archery Combat Style . . ..
Only 2 of the 4 feats listed at level 2 still exist independently. Only Crossbow Mastery of the 6th level feats exists independently. Oney of the 2 level 10 feats is an archetype bonus feat at level 11. Now, we have LOTS and LOTS of time before I get another style feat (level 6), so there's no rush, but we should probably look at rounding out the style feat list to take the combined feats into consideration.
I also found the Golarion name of the archetype (Ilusarian Archer) instead of calling it just Divine Marksman. Reflavoring it more as an Elven archery Ranger archetype, the one Class Feature (Iomedae's Influence) could be called Corellon's Example or something . . ..
I still need to read the thread, but it is nearly bedtime. 265 messages now.
Sorry for my lack of posting the last few days. My ISP at home has been having some problems and my posting at work has been curtailed by changes in our firewalls. I can read the posts on my phone, but hate even trying to post from it....
I should be able to keep up now.
I will have posts up tonight. Been a little crazy at my house lately. Kid's spring break got extended for 1 week (this week) and more than likely will do classes on line for the next two to four weeks.
Just a note reminding folks ALLENDM wanted to finish U1 by May 9th.
In the year 2018.
;)
Huh.
@ALLENDM: Just checked our initial recruitment: in THIS POST you gave me permission to drop Combat Reflexes in exchange for Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Harpoon. So I still have an extra feat to choose.
Just a note reminding folks ALLENDM wanted to finish U1 by May 9th.
In the year 2018.
;)
LOL...yea that was pushing it.
Huh.
@ALLENDM: Just checked our initial recruitment: in THIS POST you gave me permission to drop Combat Reflexes in exchange for Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Harpoon. So I still have an extra feat to choose.
Ok.
LOL...yea that was pushing it.Just a note reminding folks ALLENDM wanted to finish U1 by May 9th.
In the year 2018.
;)
It’s a testament to all concerned - to you Jack, newcomers and original players. This game has legs! Stay safe everybody.
All,
Just a note to the original house party:
The party has additional treasure you have not really appraised or bothered to review with the group and with the extended period of time (OOC) that has occurred. I would like to mention it:
D'ogryn has a MW set of studded leather that appears to be magical in nature.
Rabalar has a MW longsword (Keoish made).
From the Goblin Caves: (At D'ogryn's room)
90cp (Keoish), 26 sp (Hold of Sea Princes).
1 river opal (walnut-sized) (6 to 12 gp), 2 river opals (acorn sized) (5 to 10 gp/e).
7 freshwater pearls (4 to 8 gp each)
Gold Hoop Earring (5 to 20 gp)
Copper Armband/engraved - human-made - (5 to 15gp)
Silver Earring (2 to 8gp)
2 vials of sneezeweed (look like they can be used as grenades by Goblins).
2 vials of a blue paste-like substance - goblin poison.
4 torches and 3 flasks of oil (goblins had them but they appear human made).
Found on Ambusher's bodies - (At D'ogryn's room)
found on the stranger:
pouch 15gp (new coins - Keoish), 50sp, 50cp (all old coins mix)
A vial with what appears to be 1 dose - you gave 1 dose to Thout - suspect it is antivenom)
vial of 5 doses of what appears to be poison
MW spring blade (very nice), a matched pair of MW daggers (sharks for handles).
3 pouches - all together - 18 cp, 12 sp (old and mixed), 15gp (all new Keoish coins).
Don't have a solid IC reason to act, yet, but does anyone in the group actually use/prefer a long sword?
Seems an awfully big part of our loot so far to just have it sit as decoration . . ..
I would imagine we can easily sell the blade, if needed. Still while Ferona cannot use it I am sure others can...(Grond? Narciso? D'Ogryn?)
We can use the extra coins to re-equip ourselves here too. Not sure what healing salves are available, but anti-toxins would be a good idea to purchase.
All,
Just a note to the original house party:
The party has additional treasure you have not really appraised or bothered to review with the group and with the extended period of time (OOC) that has occurred. I would like to mention it:
D'ogryn has a MW set of studded leather that appears to be magical in nature.
Rabalar has a MW longsword (Keoish made).
From the Goblin Caves: (At D'ogryn's room)
90cp (Keoish), 26 sp (Hold of Sea Princes).
1 river opal (walnut-sized) (6 to 12 gp), 2 river opals (acorn sized) (5 to 10 gp/e).
7 freshwater pearls (4 to 8 gp each)
Gold Hoop Earring (5 to 20 gp)
Copper Armband/engraved - human-made - (5 to 15gp)
Silver Earring (2 to 8gp)2 vials of sneezeweed (look like they can be used as grenades by Goblins).
2 vials of a blue paste-like substance - goblin poison.
4 torches and 3 flasks of oil (goblins had them but they appear human made).
Found on Ambusher's bodies - (At D'ogryn's room)
found on the stranger:
pouch 15gp (new coins - Keoish), 50sp, 50cp (all old coins mix)
A vial with what appears to be 1 dose - you gave 1 dose to Thout - suspect it is antivenom)vial of 5 doses of what appears to be poison
MW spring blade (very nice), a matched pair of MW daggers (sharks for handles).
3 pouches - all together - 18 cp, 12 sp (old and mixed), 15gp (all new Keoish coins).
There is also the bag of gems I found with the one chest. Around the time we found the documents.
There is also the bag of gems I found with the one chest. Around the time we found the documents.All,
Just a note to the original house party:
The party has additional treasure you have not really appraised or bothered to review with the group and with the extended period of time (OOC) that has occurred. I would like to mention it:
D'ogryn has a MW set of studded leather that appears to be magical in nature.
Rabalar has a MW longsword (Keoish made).
From the Goblin Caves: (At D'ogryn's room)
90cp (Keoish), 26 sp (Hold of Sea Princes).
1 river opal (walnut-sized) (6 to 12 gp), 2 river opals (acorn sized) (5 to 10 gp/e).
7 freshwater pearls (4 to 8 gp each)
Gold Hoop Earring (5 to 20 gp)
Copper Armband/engraved - human-made - (5 to 15gp)
Silver Earring (2 to 8gp)2 vials of sneezeweed (look like they can be used as grenades by Goblins).
2 vials of a blue paste-like substance - goblin poison.
4 torches and 3 flasks of oil (goblins had them but they appear human made).
Found on Ambusher's bodies - (At D'ogryn's room)
found on the stranger:
pouch 15gp (new coins - Keoish), 50sp, 50cp (all old coins mix)
A vial with what appears to be 1 dose - you gave 1 dose to Thout - suspect it is antivenom)vial of 5 doses of what appears to be poison
MW spring blade (very nice), a matched pair of MW daggers (sharks for handles).
3 pouches - all together - 18 cp, 12 sp (old and mixed), 15gp (all new Keoish coins).
4 small diamonds - probably worth 15gp to 100gp each. Found with the scroll of the two divine spells that Soros figured out this morning.
While I can use a long sword, I normally use my rapier if I have to, and do my best to stay out of melee.
I can use a Longsword, but it would end up a secondary weapon probably...
Well, Rab sticks to the bow unless there's a situation where he KNOWS he will have to be in melee early enough to prepare for it. I have no idea how many AoOs he has accepted instead of switching from bow to blade. He hasn't swapped weapons during a fight yet, as far as I remember.
So, that MW longsword is already a low use backup weapon. That's why the player is looking to see if anyone will make better use of it. <shrug>
You could give it to Thout as a trophy for his part in the adventures.
Look, if no one is taking it, I will definitely use it when bad guys get inside my reach with the bardiche ;)
Came over here for the rules discussion.
Peran's Craft (Net) isn't Craft (Weapon), so everything is POTENTIALLY upended as far as how progress needs to be calculated.
Simplest thing in my head wold be to give him (effectively) a +2 against the standard target for crafting various types of nets, since Craft (Net) is FAR more specific than the stock craft specialties.
Stock TN for an exotic weapon net is 18. With his +6, that would let him Take 10 and hit the TN for an exotic weapon net.
The BIG problem is the craft rules calculations for success. 18 (take 10) times 18 (DC) is 324. So, by taking 10, you can make roughly 1.5 war nets in a WEEK.
In order to get it done in a day, you would need a week's result of 1400. Using the accelerated crafting rules, that would be a DC of 28, and would require a crafting check of 50! Take an AWFUL lot of help to get up to a 50 on the check . . ..
But that's just my read of the stock system rules.
Ignoring the rules, though, a good net ain't really a quick construction item in the real world, either. Making one is enough of an investment that it seems like nobody every considers replacing one instead of repairing it unless the damage is really, really bad.
What if you started with a stock net and modified it to a war type? Would that assist at all...or is it possible??
To enable the story and not have to wait a week, I could use my remaining feat choice to take the “Additional Traits” feat, and as one of my traits take “Heirloom Weapon”. For my net.
So is the intent to move away from the harpoon to the net or to add the net to your arsenal of weapons based on your background? My suggestion is to swap out the trait:
Industrious: Craft is a class skill for you. Select one kind of item. When crafting (making or repairing) this particular item with the relevant skill, you get a +5 trait bonus to the relevant Craft skill.
for:
Heirloom Weapon You carry a non-masterwork simple or martial weapon that has been passed down from generation to generation in your family.
Benefit: When you select this trait, choose one of the following benefits:
proficiency with that specific weapon
a +1 trait bonus on attacks of opportunity with that specific weapon
a +2 trait bonus on one kind of combat maneuver when using that specific weapon.
Note: You pay the standard gp cost for the weapon.
Since your family has no background in crafting weapons this would make more sense and it would allow you to use that feat for something else. I just hate that you would have to waste that feat because we already talked about you adjusting your character a bit at 2nd now that you know the house rules a bit better. This would also be more true to Naia's background.
Jack
The intent is to add versatility to Naia. Throw net, tangle enemy, help everybody to stab entangled foe.
I should probably change Craft: Weapon to Craft: Harpoon.
Then take the Additional Traits feat for Heirloom Weapon - someone in the past had a net they used in combat. Plus it wouldn’t “lose” me a feat because I’d gain proficiency with nets, and not need Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Net . I’d even give up the second trait from Additional Traits feat because otherwise it’s gaining a trait all up.
And keep Industrious, for crafting Harpoons.
Actually, just realised Heirloom doesn’t day “Exotic Weapons”. So I’ll still have to take the EWP feat. I’ll think on your option Jack. It’s a good idea.
So real quick. At the beginning of this campaign set up, I mentioned I wanted to use alternate craft/magic item crafting rules. It has not come up until now and I forgot to add these docs into our folder but this will simplify a lot of these issues. I added them to the Shattered Star Campaign I am running because it came up and it was at the top of my mind when I was setting up the links but I should have added them here as well.
Review these when you get a moment. In the nutshell, it just makes crafting items a lot simpler and it gives you a ton of flexibility in crafting magic items. I had already set up the magic items you can find in the adventure using these rules.
These have been added to the folder and I will put the links up top.
In Naia and Peran's case the NET would be considered Moderate but since the net itself is already made and is simply going to be modified to a SNAG NET I would consider that Simple (2 days to complete) with a DC12 and I would add a +1 due to the trip feature adding additional complexity for a total of DC13. The doc lays this out SIMPLE (+2 DC and 2days to complete, then I added +1 to the DC due to the Trip feature).
I try to keep these things simple so that we don't waste tons of time on them and you can use CRAFT and PROFESSION in meaningful ways along with an easy way to make magic items.
Jack