Old School Greyhawk - Saltmarsh Campaign PFRPG (570CY - Southern Keoland)

Game Master ALLENDM

House Keeping.

Heads up I updated the party treasure list with some things that were missing.

You guys need to separate these out amongst the party. Even if it is party funds we need to know who is carrying it.

I am going to make a bunch of posts this Friday/Saturday/Sunday. I have been slammed at work as of late dealing with end-to-end reviews of several revenue-generating applications for vulnerabilities and it has been a long week.

Going to take it easy tonight :)

Jack

Just a reminder that each of you have 1 hero point.

Not that I am foreshadowing any terrible events I was just updating my notes and wanted to bring it up...you can breath now. :)

Jack

FYI, when I write Thout's actions, I'm trying to have him act mostly as I think he would, which is not necessarily what may be best for the situation. So please do not interpret what he says and does as what I, out of character, think is actually the best course.

For example, he would love to ransack the room and for D'ogryn to check out that central drawer, but with the ongoing goblin (and whatever else) threat, he is not comfortable taking the time. He's willing to look in the rooms only because he doesn't want something sneaking up on them from behind. I know this may mean leaving items and treasure behind, but we could always come back? He is focused on the mission and wants to clear out the goblins while staying alive.

We probably need to add a "Group Treasure" section on our sheets to indicate the items we are carrying but still need to be distributed. I am marking below who I think has what. Please feel free to correct anything below.

90 cp (Keolandish) -- I assume whoever found the coins will put them on their sheet marked as group treasure
26 sp (Highport, Hold of Sea Prince, County of Ulek) -- I assume whoever found the coins will put them on their sheet marked as group treasure

1 river opal, walnut sized (6gp) -- Thout
2 river opal, acorn sized (3gp ea ? 6gp total) -- Thout
2 sneezeweed vials (grenades) -- Rabalar
2 torches -- Thout
2 torches -- D'ogryn
2 flasks of oil -- Thout
1 flasks of oil -- D'ogryn
7 freshwater pearls (value unknown) -- D'ogryn
1 lb of salt -- D'ogryn
herbs -- D'ogryn
Gold hoop earring (5-20 gp) -- Thout
Copper armband (human made) -- Zove?
Silver Earring (6gp) -- Zove?
2 vials of goblin poison (bluish color) -- ?

@AllenDM, do we need to track the money according its government of origin? Or are they interchangeable?

Just a reminder that each of you have 1 hero point.

Not that I am foreshadowing any terrible events I was just updating my notes and wanted to bring it up...you can breath now. :)

Jack

Hey, in case you want to correct it, the House Rules doc says that characters start with 2 Hero Points.

No that is correct; it is two.

Jack

Excellent! I'll breathe twice!

Ah. Just reread through this discussion thread and gameplay again - I see Naia is now at the back, and possibly has not even seen into the other rooms yet, so ignore her cogitations on writing etc...

DM - yes, you missed Naia looking down the hallway, and what she might have seen. Which it seems, was not much. ;)

@AllenDM, do we need to track the money according its government of origin? Or are they interchangeable?

I forgot to answer this. Here is my take on this...if I added it in there is probably a reason why I did... I foreshadow a lot and I give little clues about things going on around you in the details I give. So if I took the time to give a detail here or there it is a good chance there is probably a reason for it :)

Which leads me to another point...obviously I am going to give you perception checks and basic skill checks for things I think you catch at a glance or as you pass by. I have been doing that for a while but there are things you are missing if you don't take the time to utilize a skill you have and put a dice check down for that skill check. Don't be afraid to use a skill check and RP it out...even if you say something like:

"As we talk to this stranger for Gradsul I will give his attire a good once over. He claims to be a traveling craftsman from the east."

DM I am going to make a Know(Local) to see if I catch anything. Do you want me to make the check or you? Here is mine if I need to:

1d20 + 4 ⇒ (18) + 4 = 22

I tend to put clues in for the current events and for events/details that are going to happen in the future. So don't be afraid to utilize all your skills to investigate, ask questions. Sometimes just asking the question will get you an answer without a skill check. I assume if you are paying attention to the details then your PC is as well ;)

Jack

In Disney for the week. I can still post but they will be short. Bot me if needed.

Sorry for the slows posting. I was tied up all weekend and this Monday and Tuesday are going to be a slow go due to work. As soon as I get a moment to breath I will get some posts up so we can keep the ball rolling :)

Will have a post up late tonight.

Heh. I was doing a quick scan and was about to ask if we were waiting on D'Ogryn.

Just got back from the airport. Very long drive and I am tired. Will have to wait till tomorrow.

I am going to let Jovich post for D'ogryn. As soon as that happens we can move on with the House. In the meantime, I am going to get our new party members embedded into our story :)

I did post on Wednesday...was there more for me to do?

If we are waiting on me....I am not sure why...I posted on Wednesday about moving down the hallway to the door and checking it out.

This is all your fault D'ogryn. We're punishing you for not taking us to Disney with you. Hope you got us souvenirs!

If we are waiting on me....I am not sure why...I posted on Wednesday about moving down the hallway to the door and checking it out.

I just missed that repsonse :)

I found it after you mentioned it. It has been crazy week for me, sorry about not seeing it.

I will have a few posts up tonight after I get back from my son’s games.

Football and soccer all day.

Jack

God bless the United States Military and thank all soldiers past and present for the gift of freedom. My heroes.

second that

D’ogryn Amaidar wrote:

If we are waiting on me....I am not sure why...I posted on Wednesday about moving down the hallway to the door and checking it out.

I just missed that repsonse :)

I found it after you mentioned it. It has been crazy week for me, sorry about not seeing it.

I will have a few posts up tonight after I get back from my son’s games.

Football and soccer all day.

Jack

No problems, I was trying to figure out if I missed something.

Heads Up:

I am just getting home tonight. I will have posts up tomorrow for us.

Wednesday I leave for my anniversary vacation. I will have my laptop so I plan on making some posts when I have time...being lazy and enjoying the sun and the sand. I get back next Friday but I am not 100% sure of the internet connectivity as I will be on a private island in Turks and Caicos. I am told the internet is good but I am always leery of what islanders define as good after my experiences in the Bahamas and elsewhere. As soon as I get settled I will let you know.

Enjoy your anniversary...

Off to a BSA Troop campout. Be back Sunday. If you need to bot me, maintain overwatch and shoot what needs shooting.

Off to a BSA Troop campout. Be back Sunday. If you need to bot me, maintain overwatch and shoot what needs shooting.

Hope the camp out was fun!

I have had time to start updating our Skills, Saves, and Ability Checksheet. I have included it below and it has all the macro shortcuts. I will include it on my postings below the map (if any) so it is easy to get to for everyone. Trying to make things easy for all of us :)

Party Skill, Save, and Ability Check Macros Sheet

For those of you in the States. I hope you have a great Thanksgiving weekend. Be safe!

Updated rolls sheet.

Thanks Licitus.

Updated as well

Updated it as well.

Ok I caught a mistake on my part with the ground floor stairs after you guys mentioned it. I had the stairs wrong in my head...The bottom stair is north (not south as I had it). I have corrected Naia and Soros and placed them accordingly. Sorry about that...I should have caught it but I am glad you guys mentioned it.

Jack

Being that Thout is intending to kind of specialize in shield protection, I have been having on and off discussions with SD about how shields work in this campaign. He thought it would be a good idea to post a summary for everyone's review and thoughts. So here goes...

Shields have been house ruled significantly to make them feel more realistic and to require conscious tactics. Light and heavy shields have larger shield bonuses, and very importantly, all physical shields provide damage reduction. However, shield bonuses are not quite as easy to come by. A shield bonus from a physical shield is NOT applied to AC whenever
* wielder is flat-footed
* wielder is unaware of the attack
* wielder is flanked. In the case of being flanked, wielder can choose one side of his space to which the shield bonus will be applied. Only attacks passing through that side will be affected by the shield bonus.

Losing the shield bonus is a big deal, so we have talked about some circumstances under which the shield bonus may still apply. For example, the Combat Reflexes feat has been modified such that it allows the character to apply shield bonuses when flat-footed as long as they are aware of the attack.

One ability that is currently being discussed is that when flanked, a character would be able to use attacks of opportunity to apply a shield bonus to an attack coming from one of the three unshielded square sides. This ability would be implemented by making it part of the Improved Shield Focus feat (see feat text below).

In the house rules, when a character selects the Shield Focus feat, the character will automatically get Improved Shield Focus once he meets its prerequisites. So the end result of this rules change is an increase of the value of the Shield Focus feat by automatically awarding an ability that helps mitigate getting flanked at BAB +6.

What do you think of this proposed version of Improved Shield Focus? Should the ability go in a different feat? Is the ability good and reasonable in the first place? Have any ideas or suggestions?

@AllenDM, please correct any of the above that I have wrong.

EDIT: Oops, I forgot to mention the changes to the Shield Specialization feats. Because crits automatically confirm, these feats were altered. The new versions are in the House Rules doc.

That all looks good to me. About the only thign I woudl add is that when I played ADnD back in the mists of time, the larger the shield, the more foes you could apply it to. If I remember rightly it was between 1 and 3 foes, from smallest to largest shield.

Then again, I remember trying to implement another rule I saw posited in a Dragon magazine that made it clear that intelligent foes would target the head on a 1 in 6 chance (maybe more?) and encouraged players to purchase and equip helmets that gave the head a distinct (and obviously better than 10) AC. Never saw the light of day, mostly because I stopped playing around that time....

Haven't had access to actual computer, so haven't been able to update macros yet..

"Shields have been house ruled significantly to make them feel more realistic and to require conscious tactics. Light and heavy shields have larger shield bonuses, and very importantly, all physical shields provide damage reduction. However, shield bonuses are not quite as easy to come by. A shield bonus from a physical shield is NOT applied to AC whenever
* wielder is flat-footed
* wielder is unaware of the attack
* wielder is flanked. In the case of being flanked, wielder can choose one side of his space to which the shield bonus will be applied. Only attacks passing through that side will be affected by the shield bonus."

Well I happen to be playing a character that does not use a shield and probably will never use one besides a buckler. That being said I will add my opinion (and that is all it is) on this topic from personal fighting experience. So all my points are from a modern day reenactment of medieval fighting. I have not looked at the DOCS as of today and it has been a long time since I have looked at them so I may be stating something that is in there and I did not know...Now the normal shield rules were put in place as they are was to simplify combat.

FLANK:
A shield is a heavy piece of equipment that you are carrying around in combat. The larger the shield the more protection it grants you. It is very difficult to take a shield and place it on the opposite side of your body to protect that flank without turning your body to open up your other flank. If you happen to be flanked and you are a right handed fighter...your shield bonus will be on your left flank and should not be counted to your right flanking opponent. This is simple in that for you as a fighter to shift your shield across your body to protect your left flank you leave your whole left side open. If you do such a tactic you have twisted your body in such a way that you are unable to effectively fight your opponent on you left side not to mention you turned you back to your opponent...NEVER A GOOD THING in a fight...trust me it hurts. The only shield that would not be effected by these tactics is the buckler. I have fought with a buckler and it is the only shield that does not impede in your ability to defend and attack from either side. This is due to its size and weight. Bottom line...if flanked your shield (excluding the buckler) should only apply to the same side that it is equipped on.

"HR Combat Reflexes:
One ability that is currently being discussed is that when flanked, a character would be able to use attacks of opportunity to apply a shield bonus to an attack coming from one of the three unshielded square sides. This ability would be implemented by making it part of the Improved Shield Focus feat (see feat text below).

HR Improved Shield Focus:
In the house rules, when a character selects the Shield Focus feat, the character will automatically get Improved Shield Focus once he meets its prerequisites. So the end result of this rules change is an increase of the value of the Shield Focus feat by automatically awarding an ability that helps mitigate getting flanked at BAB +6.

What do you think of this proposed version of Improved Shield Focus? Should the ability go in a different feat? Is the ability good and reasonable in the first place? Have any ideas or suggestions?"

This game we are playing is much different from the real world and as such we get magic, feats...etc. having a feat that allows you to do things that you normally can not is part of the game and I have nothing wrong with the proposed feats as they are listed here.

@Naia and @D'ogryn, thanks for your responses. Sounds like the proposal is reasonable, but there are some possible mods:
1) Bucklers be exempted from the limitation on which sides of your space its shield bonus is applied (due to size and weight).
2) Instead of limiting space sides, limit the number of opponents to which the shield bonus will be applied (based on shield size).

Unrelated to shields, Naia brought up a third proposal (not sure if this is something you want to include or if it is an example of alternate rules):
3) Introduce a mechanism for hitting vulnerable areas. (This may be covered by the Called Shot rules already in use.)

An aspect of the shields that I think needs clarification is how the shield DR stacks (or not) with other DR and abilities:
4) Does shield DR stack with adamantine armor DR?
5) Does a shield made from adamantine have increased DR?
6) Does shield DR stack with class abilities like a Barbarian's DR or a Fighter's Armor Mastery?

Of course, all this is subject to AllenDM's take on how these concepts fit in with his low(er) magic world, but all ideas and thoughts are appreciated.

Please continue with more feedback! Thanks, again

Hey. So, on shields . . ..

1) Unless the intent is to reintroduce facing and all the complications it brings to the game, "picking a side" for the shield to protect violates the lack of facing in the game. Yes, Tower shields as portable walls for cover do that somewhat already.

2) The old school shield is effective against X attackers (where X is determined by the type of shield) is still more complex than the core engine, but is easier to implement without adding facing back into the game.

3) Perhaps a Feat synergy? With both Combat Reflexes and Shield Focus, you get to add your dex bonus (half?) [minimum 1] to the number of opponents you can use the shield against. Let's a focused build create an ability beyond that anybody else gets, without becoming a "must have" option.

IIRC, the DR from an adamantium shield stacks with the DR from adamantium armor. But I know the DR from adamantium armor explicitly stacks with both barbarian's DR and a Fighter's Armor Mastery DR.

So, I would expect an adamantium shield to have a greater DR than a normal shield, and for that DR to stack with other DR/- in MOST cases.

I've actually been experimenting with a Fighter build based on creating both the highest AC that I can manage and the most DR/- that I can wrangle.

"Shields have been house ruled significantly to make them feel more realistic and to require conscious tactics. Light and heavy shields have larger shield bonuses, and very importantly, all physical shields provide damage reduction. However, shield bonuses are not quite as easy to come by. A shield bonus from a physical shield is NOT applied to AC whenever

* wielder is flat-footed
* wielder is unaware of the attack
* wielder is flanked. In the case of being flanked, wielder can choose one side of his space to which the shield bonus will be applied. Only attacks passing through that side will be affected by the shield bonus."

Well I happen to be playing a character that does not use a shield and probably will never use one besides a buckler. That being said I will add my opinion (and that is all it is) on this topic from personal fighting experience. So all my points are from a modern day reenactment of medieval fighting. I have not looked at the DOCS as of today and it has been a long time since I have looked at them so I may be stating something that is in there and I did not know...Now the normal shield rules were put in place as they are was to simplify combat.

FLANK:
A shield is a heavy piece of equipment that you are carrying around in combat. The larger the shield the more protection it grants you. It is very difficult to take a shield and place it on the opposite side of your body to protect that flank without turning your body to open up your other flank. If you happen to be flanked and you are a right handed fighter...your shield bonus will be on your left flank and should not be counted to your right flanking opponent. This is simple in that for you as a fighter to shift your shield across your body to protect your left flank you leave your whole left side open. If you do such a tactic you have twisted your body in such a way that you are unable to effectively fight your opponent on you left side not to mention you turned you back to your opponent...NEVER A GOOD THING in a...

So to give this context... When I was stationed in Europe with FAST EUROPE Co. I had the pleasure to work with a Scot from the British 45 Commando. He was an avid swordsman and practiced the broadsword and dirk as well as the broadsword and buckler. I worked out with him a lot (I was an avid Aiklido/Judo/Laido practitioner) as we deployed with his team during the Ukraine and Yugoslavia (Bosnian and Kosovo Wars)missions we were assigned to. At that time about nine of us played 2.0 and slowly moved to 3.0/3.5. Shield use always came up in the game because we felt it was not properly portrayed in the game. The DR rule and FLAT-FOOTED/FLANK/SURPRISE modifications came from those experiences.

The addition of those two rules in our Pathfinder Campaign (three of us still play together to this day) came from gaming together back then. We never bothered to look any further than the added rule. I will say I like what Licitus is proposing. I do agree with Hustonj it adds complexity to combat. My view of combat is that no one is actually static or standing still awaiting their turn, in fact, the opposite is true. Everyone is dynamic and everyone is moving, changing position, changing facing to react to the environment. But, in a normal situation, the shield only gives you protection from one opponent within a round. If surprised, caught flat-footed, or flanked by multiple opponents the shield is not usable. What Licitus is proposing is to alter these conditions with the use of a feat in regard to additional opponents.

Based on Licitus's request:

I have modified what he requested to simply this concept so it is not a facing concept but an opponent concept.

Combat Feats -

Combat Reflexes (Combat)
• Benefit: You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity per round equal to your Dexterity bonus. With this feat, you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed. In addition, being flat-footed no longer causes you to be denied your shield bonus. It can still be lost for other causes.

• Normal: A character without this feat can make only one attack of opportunity per round and can’t make attacks of opportunity or benefit from his shield bonus while flat-footed.

• Special: The Combat Reflexes feat does not allow a rogue to use her opportunist ability more than once per round.

Shield Focus (Combat)
• You are skilled at deflecting blows with your shield.
• Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, base attack bonus +1.
• Benefit: Increase the AC bonus granted by any shield you are using by 1.

Improved Shield Focus (Combat)
• Your mastery makes the most of your shield.
• Prerequisite: Shield Focus, BAB +6 (automatic progression)
• Benefit(s): You reduce the armor check penalty of any shield you are using by 1. You also use your character level in place of your BAB for the purpose of shield mastery feat prerequisites. In addition, you may apply your shield bonus to one additional opponent in a round.
• Normal: When flanked, shield bonuses are not applied to attacks from all sides of your space.

Greater Shield Focus (Combat)
• You are skilled at deflecting blows with your shield.
• Prerequisites: Shield Focus (ISF), Shield Proficiency, BAB +8 (automatic progression).
• Benefit: Increase the AC bonus granted by any shield you are using by 1. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Shield Focus. In addition you may apply your shield bonus to one additional opponent in a round when flanked. This stacks with Improved Shield Bonus for a total of 3 opponents.

Shield Specialization (Combat)
• You have mastered the use of one type of shield.
• Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected shield, Shield Focus, fighter level 4th.
• Benefit: Choose one type of shield (buckler, light, heavy, or tower shield). With the selected shield, you gain a +2 bonus do the Shield DR. In addition, you may add your base shield bonus (including the bonus from Shield Focus but not including enhancement bonuses) to your CMD.
• Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of shield.

Greater Shield Specialization (Combat)
• Your masterful shieldwork provides even greater protection to your vital areas.
• Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected shield, Greater Shield Focus, Shield Focus, Shield Specialization with selected shield, fighter level 12th.(automatic progression)
• Benefit: Choose one type of shield (buckler, light, heavy, or tower shield) for which you possess the Shield Specialization feat. With the selected shield, you gain a +2 bonus to your shield DR. In addition, once per day you may negate a critical hit or sneak attack and damage is instead rolled normally.
• Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of shield.

Combat Reflexes (modified)

Shield Focus (includes Improved Shield Focus (ISF), Greater Shield Focus (GSF)).

Shield Specialization (includes Greater Shield Specialization).

Please review and if this is acceptable I will add it into our rule set. I think this is clean but again we need to all agree on it (make ajustments if needed) as it is an addition :) Although it benefits everyone in the long run. :)

Jack

In regards to the additional questions presented by Licitus and mentioned by Hustonj:

An aspect of the shields that I think needs clarification is how the shield DR stacks (or not) with other DR and abilities:
1) Does shield DR stack with adamantine armor DR? (((YES)))
2) Does a shield made from adamantine have increased DR? (((YES)))
3) Does shield DR stack with class abilities like a Barbarian's DR or a Fighter's Armor Mastery? (((YES)))

I think the Shield DR should stack with Armor Mastery. I also think it should stack with Barbarian DR and Adamantine DR. I have no issue with this... My job as the DM is to present challenges to the group that matches the ability of the party.

Everybody agrees with this we can add this in as well? Bear in mind it goes both ways :)

By the way, I really appreciate all the feedback.

Jack

As an avid buckler fan (in-game, where they make absolutely no sense at all but are completely fun) Naia will be looking to invest in some shield feats, especially given her more mobile style...

@Thout/Licitus: I'm not advocating that we add more rules in terms of called shots. Unless DM wants to entertain them!!!

I concur with the updated Shield rules here. Anything to keep my squishy arcanist alive he he.

Not to throw YET another bone in the stew here, but how do these Rules square with the Shield" spell. While Ferona does know the spell Shock Shield it would be high on her priority to see how this spell, and other Shield spells, work with these new rules.

Note: part of this was written before the lastest series of posts, but I'm including it so that you can see my thinking (if you're interested)

First, I agree that we don't want to introduce facing. That just seems problematic as too much of the rule set is created with the understanding that facing does not exist.

Having said that, I personally don't regard choosing a side in this case as being facing (as far as the rules are concerned). Obviously, it is rooted in the idea of not being able to focus on all directions at once, but I am looking at it in much the same way as the tower shields mentioned by Rabalar can provide cover.

I like the idea of shields being more powerful, but more limited, and that only through advanced training, abilities, etc. can they become more useful. To that end, I like requiring AOOs for additional attacks because that means in the face of iterative attacks or lots of enemies, one will not be able to defend against them all. It requires making a tactical decision before entering the fray. I also like it coming at a cost. As in, you can defend against these attacks, but you may not be able to do something else (because you have now used all your AOOs). The aspect I don't like, and this can become a big deal in a PBP, is how it could affect the pace of play. If after every attack, we have to wait for a decision on whether to apply the shield bonus, that could become a serious drag. Something would have to be done to eliminate that. And that "something" could be saying that one just applies the shield bonus to specific attackers rather than attacks. This, however, could mean that you would simply apply the attacks to the 2 attackers who are flanking, which would eliminate the very reason we were introducing the limitation in the first place. So... I would prefer to try using AOOs initially and see how it works. If it slows things down, then we would try something else or just eliminate the rule entirely.

Regarding shield DR and stacking...
According to RAW, I believe that an adamantine shield does not give DR, only adamantine armor. But given the House Rules, I agree that an adamantine shield should provide additional DR (probably 1 or 2, maybe based on type?).

Also according to my understanding of RAW, DR does not stack. @Rabalar, I looked for where it says that adamantine DR stacks with Barbarian or Fighter Armor Mastery DR, and I could not find any. Are you sure that those DRs stack? There are certain abilities that specifically allow stacking (Armored Juggernaut Advanced Armor Training and the Fighter Armor Master archetype), but these are exceptions as far as I can tell. I bring this up because I think it is important to know when we are deviating from the standard so that we can address any resulting peculiarities.

My opinion is that the DR should not stack; we should simply use the highest applicable DR from all the character's sources. I say this because DR is very powerful and can alter encounters significantly. High DR xx/- is hard to penetrate; I would think especially so in a low magic world.

To summarize, my take is
* No facing
* Use space side and AOOs instead of number of opponents (maybe allow bucklers 2 adjoining sides?)
* Allow adamantine to increase shield DR
* Do not allow DR stacking

The above is just my opinion. Believe me, I'm not going to get bent out of shape not doing it the way I prefer. I don't think using the other approach is bad or anything, but I do believe that the above will give more tactical fun.

EDIT: I forgot to ask about Greater Shield Focus. Without house rules, it is available only to fighters. I see that fighter is not one of the listed prerequisites. Is this intentional?

I concur with the updated Shield rules here. Anything to keep my squishy arcanist alive he he.

Not to throw YET another bone in the stew here, but how do these Rules square with the Shield" spell. While Ferona does know the spell Shock Shield it would be high on her priority to see how this spell, and other Shield spells, work with these new rules.

My take on the shield spell would be to leave it unchanged (because it's magic!). So it would apply to all attacks whether flat-footed, multiple sides/opponents, etc., but would not give DR.

One more post!

Are we waiting for perception/trap finding rolls from D'ogryn? Or is AllenDM going to do them?

Note: part of this was written before the lastest series of posts, but I'm including it so that you can see my thinking (if you're interested)

First, I agree that we don't want to introduce facing. That just seems problematic as too much of the rule set is created with the understanding that facing does not exist.

Having said that, I personally don't regard choosing a side in this case as being facing (as far as the rules are concerned). Obviously, it is rooted in the idea of not being able to focus on all directions at once, but I am looking at it in much the same way as the tower shields mentioned by Rabalar can provide cover.

I like the idea of shields being more powerful, but more limited, and that only through advanced training, abilities, etc. can they become more useful. To that end, I like requiring AOOs for additional attacks because that means in the face of iterative attacks or lots of enemies, one will not be able to defend against them all. It requires making a tactical decision before entering the fray. I also like it coming at a cost. As in, you can defend against these attacks, but you may not be able to do something else (because you have now used all your AOOs). The aspect I don't like, and this can become a big deal in a PBP, is how it could affect the pace of play. If after every attack, we have to wait for a decision on whether to apply the shield bonus, that could become a serious drag. Something would have to be done to eliminate that. And that "something" could be saying that one just applies the shield bonus to specific attackers rather than attacks. This, however, could mean that you would simply apply the attacks to the 2 attackers who are flanking, which would eliminate the very reason we were introducing the limitation in the first place. So... I would prefer to try using AOOs initially and see how it works. If it slows things down, then we would try something else or just eliminate the rule entirely.

Regarding shield DR and stacking......

Shield Focus - is for anyone.

Shield Specialization - is for fighters.

I eliminated the prereq for fighter 8 on GSF since SF (ISF and GSF) are now merged. GSF you get it automatically when BAB +8 is reached. I just wanted to eliminate any confusion on the progression for SF.

I need to go back and reread DR stacking but I thought the same thing that Hustonj was thinking in regards to Barbarian and Armor Mastery. I could be wrong...

I eliminated the expenditure of AoO for additional uses of your shield for this reason. It will bog us down and essentially what you are getting with Shield Focus as you advance in level is the ability to manipulate/coordinate your shield with your movement to protect your flanks. At 6th level you can protect one flank (one additional opponent) and at 8th you gain the ability to protect an other flank (two additional opponents for a total of three). You can still get overrun by multiple opponents from flanks and reach weapons. A medium character can be attacked by eight people at time in SPACE and an additional sixteen in REACH. The SHIELD FOCUS at eighth level (ISF/GSF) allows you to add your shield bonus to two additional opponents a round. If you got swarmed by a bunch of spear wielding goblins (16 - worse case) you could only apply your shield bonus to three of those guys at eighth level. The rest would negate your shield bonus and get a flanking bonus (with additional bonuses due to the amount of flankers). That is worse case scenario but my point is that Shield Focus the added benefit still only offers protection (additional shield bonus) to two other opponents.

Bear in mind the flanking modifiers are enhanced in the HR. Getting overrun and surrounded by a host of enemies is a bad thing... The Shield Focus additional benefit I think helps to mitigate this a little bit.

Here is space/reach template from d20pfsrd as an example:

SPACE/REACH EXAMPLES

Jack

My take on the shield spell would be to leave it unchanged (because it's magic!). So it would apply to all attacks whether flat-footed, multiple sides/opponents, etc., but would not give DR.

Yeah I was kinda hoping for the DR in addition to the shield bonus here, but I would agree that would make the spell overpowered. Just looking for any edge I can get here he he.

One more post!

Are we waiting for perception/trap finding rolls from D'ogryn? Or is AllenDM going to do them?

I can do them but I was waiting on D'ogryn to move and check the next door he wanted to scout out.