Guard dogs sound great and flavourful, just need a trainer/handler?
If we have none with handle animal, one of the hirelings could be an animal trainer...-
I have handle animal skill. It's only at +6, but I've got it!
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To train animals for combat is a DC 20 handle animal check so ideally you want someone with a +10 (so they can take 10), but a +6 is enough that you will make it 1/3rd of the time, so it would just take longer.
But training animals takes weeks so until we have some downtime it will be easier to just hire someone. And a human expert 2 has a good chance of having a +10, assuming skill focus and a decent CHA.
Thanks for the heads up.
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OK guys, it's time to think about:
A: What we want to do with the prisoners, and
B: What to do after we get to Oleg's.
As far as A goes, my little speech will hopefully start Chick and Wilbur on the path towards joining civilization again. I don't think that we should let Kressle live though, and the illusionist will be pretty dangerous too, though we know nothing about her yet really. I am on the fence about the other two "ordinary" bandits.
For B though, I think we should start exploring hexes and we can start with the one the Benzens were in. That hex still counts as unexplored. There's also the Renault far which we haven't been to yet.
@GGGM - the hex north of the Renault Farm - is that a hex we are expected to explore? I think I'd like to stick to plains hexes at first - we can see farther and clear them faster.
With these specific prisoners, Alia will feel a bit less inclined to give them all second chances. Those 2 others were friends of her. So if you want to hang Kressle, thats fine.
The illusionist...would depend if she's got juice left. We got her Spellbook, so she can't prepare more, and if she's tied up, it's unlikely she could get her hands free for Somatic Components. That would make her a pretty docile prisoner, I would guess, because she's physically weak. As for letting her and the others "go" after a little speech...why not instead take them on as hirelings once back at Olegs? They will need proper employ anyway if they should get back into civilization.
Obviously I don't really want them NEAR me, but we could designate them a spot on the map where they should raise a hidden, defensible camp and stock up on resources. A sort of resupply-point other than Olegs. There's always a chance they rejoin their former comrades if we let them go...but there's also a chance they will do as we say, plus we can feed them false intel and make it seem that was our plan all along if someone deserts...
Honestly, not sure either, but we will need a "deal with criminals"-plan that goes beyond "hang them, let them go, or deliver them to brevoy" later anyway. So we may as well start somewhere.
@Exploration after Oleg: While my exploration goal probably is hidden somewhere in a more densely forested area, I'm perfectly fine with sticking to plains right now...you guys ultimately are after the stag lord, and one of his lackeys must have my map, which we need anyway to get into the place.
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The illusionist...would depend if she's got juice left. We got her Spellbook, so she can't prepare more...
We don't know how many spells she has left, and I don't know any way of finding out other than her telling us. Suggestions?
why not instead take them on as hirelings once back at Olegs?
Yeah, that's basically what I had in mind. There are guards at Oleg's now, so as long as we don't overload the place with prisoners that should work fine. Verdigris I'm not so sure about, but we'll see.
Obviously I don't really want them NEAR me, but we could designate them a spot on the map where they should raise a hidden, defensible camp and stock up on resources.
This is not a bad idea, but for the moment I'm not sure I want them working unsupervised.
we will need a "deal with criminals"-plan that goes beyond "hang them, let them go, or deliver them to brevoy" later anyway. So we may as well start somewhere.
I agree completely. Prisoners are a sticky issue when you have the limited resources we have.
@GGGM - the hex north of the Renault Farm - is that a hex we are expected to explore? I think I'd like to stick to plains hexes at first - we can see farther and clear them faster.
Apparently the writer of the charter was as confused about compass directions as anyone who cares to look at the map. Let's call the chartered area those lands east of the Skunk and Gudrim Rivers and west of the South Rostland Road--basically from the first row of full hexes (the second row) down to the Western tip of the Tuskwater. So 'no' to the very top row of hexes, that area is within the more-or-less controlled borders of Brevoy.
Traveling (Time to cross 1 12-mile-wide hex)
Party Spd - Plains - - Other Terrains
15 feet - - 11 hours- - - 16 hours
20 feet - - 8 hours- - - - 12 hours
30 feet - - 5 hours- - - - 8 hours
40 feet - - 4 hours- - - - 6 hours
50 feet - - 3 hours- - - - 5 hours
Exploring (Time to fully explore 1 144-square-mile hex)
Party Spd - - Plains - - Forest/Hill/Swamp - - Mountain
15 feet - - - - 3 days - - - - - - 4 days - - - - - - 5 days
20 feet - - - - 2 days - - - - - - 3 days - - - - - - 4 days
30 feet - - - - 1 day- - - - - - - 2 days - - - - - - 3 days
40 feet - - - - 1 day- - - - - - - 1 day- - - - - - - 2 days
50 feet - - - - 1 day- - - - - - - 1 day- - - - - - - 1 day
OK guys, it's time to think about:
A: What we want to do with the prisoners....
Upon arriving at Oleg's, Cyrielle, who is more of a barroom duelist than a wilderness explorer bids her adieu and can with some of Kesten's guardsmen escort the prisoners to Brevoy if you like (since you have no labor camps or mines for them to work in nor prisons to lock them in), otherwise there is always the noose or sword as mandated in your charter.
OK guys, it's time to think about:
B: What to do after we get to Oleg's.
There are also a number of side quests open as well, with further opportunities that can open up based upon your actions.
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basically from the first row of full hexes (the second row) down to the Western tip of the Tuskwater.
I put two red lines on the map... between these two (not counting half hexes)?
Actually the original charter said 60 miles south of Oleg's, so that's probably five hexes. So possibly the lower line should be 1 hex north?
Numalar will end up with a riding dog that goes '40. But that doesn't really cost us any extra time except for in mountains.
There are also a number of side quests open as well, with further opportunities that can open up based upon your actions.
Yes, though most of them are "if you find X somewhere," so you just explore and stumble on them.
We could go to the Sycamore and try to deal with the 'Blue Meanies.'
basically from the first row of full hexes (the second row) down to the Western tip of the Tuskwater.I put two red lines on the map... between these two?
Actually the original charter said 60 miles south of Oleg's, so that's probably five hexes. So possibly the lower line should be 1 hex north?
The lines are close enough. They are hexes, so they are 12 miles wide from edge to edge and a bit longer vertex to vertex.
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Traveling (Time to cross 1 12-mile-wide hex)
Party Spd - Plains - - Other Terrains
30 feet - - 5 hours- - - - 8 hours
OK, so we are in "Other Terrain" so we can only make 1 hex (12 miles of travel) in an 8-hour march. I've put our probable approximate route on the map.
Does anyone want to push the horses again? Without doing that we are probably looking at arriving at Oleg's early on the third day, rather than on the second.
Early third day it is.. horses too valuable and irreplaceable out here to risk
I'm fine with third day. As you said, we're not exactly working with time pressure here. While there may be other groups doing stuff, I doubt with the scale of the AP single days will often make a difference, as long as the overall plan is sound.(e.g. efficient exploration routes with less backtracking needed, frontier resupply camps staffed by hirelings, later on a proper road network...etc)
Upon arriving at Oleg's, Cyrielle, who is more of a barroom duelist than a wilderness explorer bids her adieu and can with some of Kesten's guardsmen escort the prisoners to Brevoy if you like (since you have no labor camps or mines for them to work in nor prisons to lock them in), otherwise there is always the noose or sword as mandated in your charter.OK guys, it's time to think about:
A: What we want to do with the prisoners....
Yeah, this sounds like the best idea to me. I doubt Oleg will want them around his trading post, either.
I might be a bit biased due to running Part 1, but this is clearly far more interesting with the changes the GM has made so there are many, MANY ways this can all play out.
Due to Posh's backstory, he'd like to give them all second chances, but he's not a gullible fool that would allow these people another chance if they tried to attack him and the group again.
That's how he views things anyway, but no one knows of his true past.
@posh, yep, another reason I placed us in a shift. I think we're natural allies on that ground even if for different reasons. I'm chaotic good(too). Not too fond of law(especially short-sighted human laws) and a firm believer in second chances(everything can be remade, people included)...(at least for those who don't kill my companions. They are lucky it took place in the backstory rather than in the game. If a bandit was to slay one of you guys, he'd get a new career option as test weight for ropes/trees).
@Celyne...up that Handle Animal.
Forget dogs, I want a guard raptor. Domesticating them to not eat the horses may take a bit of effort(and some horsies), though.
What type of Raptor the Dinosaur Raptor or the bird Raptor?
Honestly? I was not familiar with the term Raptor for birds of prey.
So "a few hunting raptors and wild goats standing on distant hills" to me meant that a pack of dinosaur raptors were somewhere on a hill, hunting some goats.
I know the Dodo is still well and alive in Golarion, and I figured if there's all kinds of lizard-type stuff up to dragons, why not some velociraptors?(plus they have stats in the SRD, with CR2 which would make them a level-adequate encounter and could mean the descriptive line was foreshadowing some of them hunting our horses on another day-).
So yeah, I admit, I was thinking of a domesticated pack of guard velociraptors...leaping-charging on anything threatening our horsies.
In pathfinder the dino that is often used is the Deinonychus.. nasty little thing 60 ft move.. blender with feathers.
Oh, 60 feet, the Raptors have too, plus the leaping charge to ignore difficult terrain and deal double damage with talons. :)
but in close combat, the Deinonychus would win, yep...
I know Stegosaurus also had some use in theorycrafting...with Feral Combat Training Flurrying Enlarged Druids. Before there was a Druid Variant that could go for Carnivorous Crystal Ooze.
rocs are raptors too... not a bad creature to have on your side, lol
hehe, true enough, both of you.
But really, I just imagined them as "replacement dogs". As in, acting and doing things exactly like a guard dog would. Only instead of biting, taking a bite.
The image just doesn't "work" the same way with birdies, even if they are feathered blenders, or large enough to serve as mounts themselves.
It needs small little guys with terrible teeth that you can scratch at the side of their head when they rub against your leg happily, excited to run next to the horses and hunt down local wildlife.
Sounds like an idea to go with ... might work
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Honestly? I was not familiar with the term Raptor for birds of prey.
Actually the term 'raptor' specifically means a bird of prey. The velociraptor was named that because of its skeletal resemblance to a bird, particularly the talon on the hind feet. The fact that people use 'raptor' as a short form for velociraptor confuses the issue though.
However, it is worth pointing out that the velociraptors that appear in the Jurassic Park films are WAY bigger than real ones. Real Earth velociraptors were only as big as a small-to medium sized dog.
A deinonychus is bigger but still not nearly the size of the ones from Jurassic Park. Here's a diagram of various 'raptor' dinosaur species, drawn with feathers.
The image just doesn't "work" the same way with birdies, even if they are feathered blenders, or large enough to serve as mounts themselves.
Well, I think a camp guarded by giant chickens would be awesome! And they would get an advantage over dinosaurs, in that if you see a dinosaur, you just run, but when confronted by a giant chicken, you just stand there for a minute going "WTF?" :)
Game wise we can take almost any kind of animal and train it if we have good enough Handle Animal skill, which is why it's a shame we don't have a druid or a ranger or some other class with wild empathy. It would be pretty awesome to be flying around on hippogriffs at higher levels.
If I see a giant chicken I'm shooting it and eating it. Maybe an axebeak?
Deinonychus though would be awesome.
I'm not sure the farmers would agree.
Well not if I shot their giant chicken they wouldn't, but if I see one around camp
I was thinking of the wandering packs of deinonychus.
@Numalar: I misexpressed, I should have said that while I do, in the back of my head, know the expression raptor for bird of prey, I simply had not remembered it(not unknown, but not a "familiar" term). Language-Issue, here, because while the latin term raptor itself simply means "thief/raider", in German it would be "Raubvogel" for birds(or, if we want to use the Latin Term, it would be "Raptorbird", but alas, Raptor is not used in that variant), not Raptor...but the whole dinosaur family of Dromaeosauridae, which includes Velociraptors, is basically called "Raptoren".
As for the size, I am aware of that, hence why I said that they would work splendidly as a "dog replacement". They would be longer, head to tail, but definitely be in a reasonable size to be used in much the same way.
I am not a big fan of Jurassic Park, to be honest. The first one was an interesting premise but...well, didn't really draw me in, and the follow-ups? Nah. It's not where I have drawn inspiration for the mental image I had when I "saw" some Raptors hunting, near the Goats-
@GM - as for the farmers agreeing: Those would be domesticated ones...if you can train them to lay eggs more often, you have guard dogs and chicken farm in one. Stupid is the wolf who will try to feed on those...
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@GM - as for the farmers agreeing...
The Kobolds would probably be into it!
If I see a giant chicken I'm shooting it and eating it. Maybe an axebeak?
I actually came up with an idea for a halfling farmer character with a giant chicken animal companion - it was actually an axe beak, but he referred to it as a chicken. :)
Why am I not surprised by that?
Final Fantasy chocobo cavaliers anyone?
Chocobo cavaliers with Velociraptor Dogs on the hunt?
Thats an illustration I would love to see on Canvas....
and the riders wielding funky ray guns
Funky Ray Guns? How about Saints Row 4 Dubsteb Cannons? Blasting Ride of the Valkyries? Would those work for you?
Never played the game... to gangsta for me....
Just like old style funky space scene drawings
Hehe, well, the series mostly turned crazy even if it started gangsta. Kind of like the games(from 2 onward, never played original) because they support full 2-player coop, so I could join my best buddy and play together.
Quite a fan of Coop-Games ^_^
Chocobo cavaliers with Velociraptor Dogs on the hunt?
Thats an illustration I would love to see on Canvas....
hmm...I'd love to have a chicken leg the size of a chocobo from KFC. mmmmm....
It's more of a matter of me reading great bundles of text on break while at work, formulating replies to posts at my next break and then forgetting some key bit of information as I rush to type with my non-texty fingers. Who, I wonder, came up with the idea that typing, only smaller would be fun?
Well that, and probably old age. Anyhow I'm home now so I'm going to take my sandals off my black stocking feet, kick back and tell the kids to keep off my grass, except of course it's the middle of the night here. ;)
Just be glad my phone doesn't still have a dial.
hmm...I'd love to have a chicken leg the size of a chocobo from KFC. mmmmm....Chocobo cavaliers with Velociraptor Dogs on the hunt?
Thats an illustration I would love to see on Canvas....
Chocobo combo. Yummm.
Zokon, you sticking with Slayer? I thought I remember to have read you wanted to take a few levels in something else?
Not sure though. But that would of course be the most convenient option. Also, would be available at Level 2 already.
You can always go for the tired and true option of throwing the barbarian at the trap first :)
RIP in Pepperoni, Scarlet
Hehe, well, if we had one, with danger sense, that may be an option. But we only have a Bloodrager, as HP sponge. I think in that case we should opt for summons instead ^_^
So eat those pepperoni instead, and let the cute forest animals clear the traps like a Anti-Disney Princess(thats something like an Anti-Paladin, only here it's LE and CG...you're good if you were wondering.)
Yes 2 levels of slayer is the plan atm then 4 of weaponmaster - bow and then back to slayer.
I'll still be able to allocate 4 skill points, maybe 5 per level.
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Slayer here i can pick up disable device..
For the record the trapfinding class feature itself is not really necessary. It provides a small bonus. The main thing is to have people with maxed perception and disable device skills. They don't even need to be the same person, though the people in question should have those skills in class.
Numalar didn't get a rank in Perception at 1st level because I covered skills I thought he should have based on his background fluff. But I'll be putting ranks next level. 2 ranks will give me +7 though, which is decent but not great. I won't be able to put ranks in Disable Device.
As far as throwing things at traps, Celyne does have summon monster I. :)
BTW guys I won't have alot of internet connectivity this weekend, like usual. Will probably not post until tomorrow night.
Really, Numalar? How else would you go about magical traps? Just use Dispel and try to suppress them long enough for our business to conclude?
Because the (getting quite good) bonus aside, magical traps were the main reason I always bothered with getting trapfinding in a party...