Of Kings and Commoners - Kingmaker AP

Game Master RPGGGM

Playing Dodge'em with hurricanes again. If I'm out for a few days, please bot me (if I'm in your game) or wait for me. This one looks to be a direct hit. See you on the other side.

Good luck and godspeed.

Good luck!

@Serena: Good luck!

@Gameplay: Oh my, I'm so torn. I would think it's just some sort of "Brevoyan" thing...but then, he did not seem to hold back.
(That is, pull his punches trying to deal nonlethal damage) -
but I also don't want to be the first to draw blood. Which may either be respected as a bold step forward("found yourself a skilled lass") or be looked down at with disgust("does she always greet friends like that? think this over, friend!") especially if Alia misread the situation or got involved in something she should not.
I am really unsure of how I want to proceed. So my lack of posting is because I'm taking my time to think, not because I'm absent. Just saying.

My hope is to shame him into abandoning this 'game.'

It is an implicit insult to his lord to say that Stoneclimb could harbor assassins. That Lyre is implying his own lord's diplomacy and security are so inept.

But I am trying to do it politely and subtly, which may not work.

Go with whichever you feel like Alia (if Durgan doesn't get him to stand down first!). We'll support you and deal with whatever fallout there is :)

My hope is to shame him into abandoning this 'game.'

It is an implicit insult to his lord to say that Stoneclimb could harbor assassins. That Lyre is implying his own lord's diplomacy and security are so inept.

But I am trying to do it politely and subtly, which may not work.

Confidentially, Lyre is under no illusions as to how many would-be assassins lurk around the noble courts in CN Brevoy. ;)

Yeah, I kind of figured that.

Still means that someone is failing at their job!

Oh, are we doing that now? :D

Sorta. ;)

Long day with Open House (parents meet the teachers, so we have to put on a bit of a dog and pony show) after school today, so no posts. Please bot as needed!

I'll be away where there might not be great internet connection, until wednesday for me (+8 gmt).

Taking the ranger rp one step further irl :P?

Sorry!

Have fun and I hope it's a nice trip :)

He's not a ninja! He's a kung-fu monk! ;)

I'm a champion .. I won the tourney (I was a away at a medieval tourney and then a farm) and am now the champion of my local group, I have to accept challenges and make challenges and defend the barony.

Glad to see our expectation was on the mark...

Hmm. If we kidnap the other bride and disguise Alia and trick them?

Or maybe this is just a test of character?

Perhaps we could get someone to look like Zokon instead?

Oh and we should definitely look into how legal polygamy is! That'll make this issue a non issue :P

Well, not concerned yet.
While consent of the parties was secondary, it only goes into effect once consumated.
Many cases of underage betrothals in history where that clause was relevant.

That said, it was exactly what we expected may happen - that Zokon could get forced into some arranged marriage against his will. It was one of the reasons for this arrangement - so there we go :)

That said, yeah, for now Alia will tense up and watch.

Yeah tell me about it.. okay.. cool but calm.. and staring daggers at GGGM

Long shot dumb idea:

Illthir's mother is/was a priestess.

If the Snowcaster elves are highly traditional, as they are, there's a nonzero chance professions are passed down to children.

So there's a nonzero chance Illthir counts as a priestess (reaaaaaaally small chance given that they aren't really a fan of half elves. Or outsiders. Or anyone really ...).

So if she is she could quick-marry Alia and Zokon on the spot. Bonus points if we can accidentally engineer for Zokons father to approve of the marriage before he has a chance to specify ... :P

Nay/nay? What do you say?

As a bonus it would even be a priestess of Alia's favored deity Findeladlara, even if the creed is probably quite different from Kyonin.

Ummm... Alia?

Oh its not a great idea, but it is an idea :P

If we don't find a good way to slip out of this by their rules we might as well make up our own rules :D

We could have done so previously, but I think one of the reasons for the trip was to inform your parents.

I'd be up for it, but I doubt brevoyan law would acknowledge Illthirs impromptu-marriage.

I can definitely speak up, but I think it would not be...smart.

Durgan could have married Alia and Zokon earlier, and Brevoyan law would probably have acknowledged that, but it would have been unwise.

I do think getting buy-in from Lord Santyev and Lord Medvyed actually matters. The Charter is just words on a page to the Brevoy nobility. If there is no political will among them for Zokon and the rest of us to rule, then we will not rule. Or we will be perpetually sabotaged.

And that was before Stroon came into the picture. I don't want a second wizard with a grudge against us. Salzarus is more than enough.

What's the worst that could happen >.>

Perhaps it would be wise to probe him first?

He might not approve of breaking her sisters heart - but on the other hand he might see the wisdom of not sending her off to backwards nowhere packed full of monsters.

Or he might have another agenda?

What sort of probe... the fun type or the talky type?

Info yes, I wonder how fond of their pleasures they are? There won't be much other than a frontier town there for a while.

I think we'll need someone to talk up if it all goes south with my father.. maybe Durgans support will be important on how the leadership and political arrangements have been organised.

Just one minor thing: We have a grudge against Salzarus. Big one.
He may have a counter-grudge against us, but it's not like he can opt not to take action against us and hope we'll forget about him.
As in, I consider myself the more "grudgy" party there.

I concur having beef with a multitude of wizards is undesirable, though, so it's more of a technicality.

Also, just one more thing @Zokon: He knew you'd arrive, arranged for accomodations and made sure that girl was around, plus a surprise wedding prepared.
That means he knew you were coming, when you would come, and probably who you would come with. If so, chances are he already KNOWS of your plan to marry some elven girl you met in a wood somewhere. It's not like you'll have to tell him, he's trying to actively override that by putting his agenda on blast.
(Otherwise he could have delayed the wedding for a day or two, if only because keeping everything(and all relevant retainers) on standby is more expensive.)

So countering by straight up introducing me as your girlfriend would be welcome, if only to show you are not up for their games.

PS: Yes, we do need backing. But the beautiful thing about a serpents nest like Brevoy is that if you foil one persons plan, you will inevitably find someone else whom that fits just fine. In other words, if we receive no backing from Zokons father, we may easily find backing with another noble that would prefer not seeing Zokons father gain additional influence on the fledgling nation.
That is, I am not too worried about this being our only option for formal support - it would be the preferable one because Zokon knows most of the serpents in this den, but I don't think we lack for other options.

PPS: I also think it would be statemanlike to let the Lord know such...that while he would be the preferred option, if he tries to enforce his own agenda in a too heavy-handed way, we will look elsewhere for support.
We understand that there needs to be mutual benefit, and don't expect support to come freely, but the price cannot be "set" as it would for some subject. We need to be equal partners and reach a concord agreeable to both sides.

You do have a wizard ally as well now though, so keep that in mind haha. Perhaps we can up the wizard grudge meter to two instead of one :P

also, to put my input in OOC, as Fergus is more or less going to let Zokon make his decision here. And then advise accordingly.

I doubt we will ever be given a chance to talk to daddy dearest until the ceremony is done. So, it may be best to just be honest about it here and now. (especially if you let them get evidence that you "spun them along" by playing along with it. Which would likely breed more ill will among the attendees.

As for support- I agree, I doubt this is the only official support we can attempt to get. I imagine there is plenty of support elsewhere, some perhaps even not from Brevoy itself. That said, you could always try to rule without the official support. It would be hard, and likely risk a lot and be a slow and painful process but its still there.

Also remember, that if we let them do as they please you will end up being nothing but a puppet to them. We can't have that. Not to mention that if you do marry your arranged partner, your death would mean that the noble house would then have a claim to them.

I agree that we do not absolutely need their support. There are other options. That is why Durgan earlier advised Zokon to be clear that he is willing to walk away.

The other options are less good for a few reasons and will no doubt have their own share of unexpected complications. Every potential supporter will try to get us to act in their interest to some degree.

We wouldn't want to walk away here, find out that it actually was the best deal we could get, and then come crawling back.

But as I said, I am fine with saying "To hell with rulership, let's just roam around the Stolen Lands solving problems" if it comes to that.

I agree with the above!

Let your heart decide :P

And I'm sure there's a diminishing return on murderous wizards chasing us - eventually they'll just stumble over eachother :D

Sounds good.. i'll wait til next prompt from GGGM and advise daddy of whats occurred.

Long shot dumb idea:

Illthir's mother is/was a priestess.

If the Snowcaster elves are highly traditional, as they are, there's a nonzero chance professions are passed down to children.

So there's a nonzero chance Illthir counts as a priestess (reaaaaaaally small chance given that they aren't really a fan of half elves. Or outsiders. Or anyone really ...).

Actually Zokon's dad has always had a thing for elf-touched ladies.

Remember too that Brevoy claims to own the Stolen Land (the whole reason that Zokon was originally sent there hinges upon the idea--otherwise he just invaded the place), and that without support of some kind it would be practically impossible to rule there without them sending in either more adventurers (to clear out "the bandits" who have taken over the land), or worse still an army or two (to declare martial law). As what amounts to a regional superpower it would be hard to resist them even with the combined might of other distant powers like Kyonin, and Glimmerhold.

Also remember that House Medvyed is just one of the half-dozen greater houses with interests in the region. Greater powers too, such as the city of Restov (large enough to count as its own faction), and Brevoy's King-Regent have plans as well.

So there is a way that the elder Lord Santyev would like folks to sit as demonstrated by the table map (link below). If you want your PC to sit elsewhere they will have to finagle it. Some folks don't have a set spot and those party members are set off to the side allowing you to seat them as you like. Lord Santyev of course sits in the big chair at the center of the table facing outward to the open space at the center of the horseshoe.

So what you're saying is I can hop on Zokons lap and sit on his knee?

Just a quick note to say that I'm still here, but I'm working on cleaning out and reclaiming my man-cave (which has become a household storage/dumping ground). This is a lengthy process (as a couple of my bookshelves had broken and I got replacements). Anyway, I will try to update as possible, but please be patient if waiting on me, or bot me if I am holding things up. This should be done by next week.

Quote:

So there is a way that the elder Lord Santyev would like folks to sit as demonstrated by the table map (link below). If you want your PC to sit elsewhere they will have to finagle it. Some folks don't have a set spot and those party members are set off to the side allowing you to seat them as you like. Lord Santyev of course sits in the big chair at the center of the table facing outward to the open space at the center of the horseshoe.

So what you're saying is I can hop on Zokons lap and sit on his knee?

*devious grin*

Sure. But how is your very long sword belted on?

Just a quick note to say that I'm still here, but I'm working on cleaning out and reclaiming my man-cave (which has become a household storage/dumping ground). This is a lengthy process (as a couple of my bookshelves had broken and I got replacements). Anyway, I will try to update as possible, but please be patient if waiting on me, or bot me if I am holding things up. This should be done by next week.

Roger that.

Hey all this is just funny and a good reflection of Australian language.. I love the first 10 seconds start.

There is some very NSFW language used in this video..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4qIbFDgFvg&list=PLlFN1tsXeNsymgnTb9jTv 87YO7wEG02ck&fbclid=IwAR0gdnP6UXu1FsY7xtR261pVRafc14ivjXLUxAIvU6qhx_fKb qFAHd992Jw

Make my roads squared off!

Spiff him Serena!!!

Bringing Durgan up is only partially a calculated "insult"...
(even if she likes burly bearded men, they could not crossbreed - little issue for him since she dies long before he does, but no heirs would mean politically all the weight she carried transfers to him - )
The other half of it is bringing him into the conversation and inviting him to speak up.
Alia is an object of hate for her - she could channel Confucius himself right now and could not hope to reasonably change her opinion - someone else will need to talk her down.(I note this was already attempted, but Durgans words may carry more weight for her).

As to resolving this situation, let me point out that Durgan doesn't get Miracle for another 12 levels.

But on a more serious note, if Pavetta were to somehow end up engaged to Durgan...
Powerful magic could turn Durgan into a human (or Pavetta into a dwarf), so reproduction would be possible. Or he could swear to adopt an heir from her family.
In either case, I as player would not seek to shut out her family or diminish their influence.

I'm not opposed to the idea. It is an unexpected suggestion.

Hehe, yeah, I did not mean to push you into any direction.

Honestly, I expected her to counter with something like saying she's not a trade good to be bargained off or granted to someone...in which case the same holds true of Zokon and he can't be forced against his will.

Or she would accept, since you also hold a high position and minor nobility, which proves it was not about Zokon in the first place.

As in, trying to get her to respond in a way that checkmates her. But if it surprisingly works out, thats fine as well :)

(That said, yeah, magic helps pretty much anything to reproduce - it would still be "unnatural" in that normal biology between the two is not compatible - just a side burn on the fact that elves and humans ARE compatible(for whatever reason))

Sorry, grabbed the most child-like characters first. And last time the fairy was near someone swearing we had it parroted back for weeks :P

All good, I appreciate that you are saving Ilvah :D

To be fair, Humans are compatible with almost everything. Its like they are the perfect race for a sexual bard. (or the worst race, depending on your intentions haha)

I read that "plot hook" once and always considered it would be fun to run for a one-shot:
A whole group of "half-somethings" all raised by their mothers looking for their mutual human bard parent.
That said, yeah, I think humans, dragons, and demons, was it? They can mate with pretty much anything they want.

As to resolving this situation, let me point out that Durgan doesn't get Miracle for another 12 levels.

Don't worry you aren't scheduled to meet the Stroons (actual Kingmaker NPCs) until book 4, I think. ;)

I just want to tell you all good luck. We're all counting on you.

More posting later.

GAh..

Ok all i'm trying to play it logical and not very diplomatic as that isn't Zokon's style.

Hoping to not have it all go kablooey, but maybe...

Aye. Maybe point out that the succession law is Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture.
(Oldest child inherits titles, females are only valid if no male heirs)

That could(should) somewhat soften the blow of a long-lived female on your side...

Problem is aren't we styling ya as co-ruler?