Agents of Cheliax Abroad (Inactive)

Game Master Molech

Again, I am so impressed by Azlain's creative problem-solving!

Thanks team. :)

It always surprises me to receive praise for what I still think of as normal gameplay. I've learned it's one of the most fundamental differences in playstyle.

A lot of people (particularly people who started playing with 3.0 or later) approach the game like it's a sport or board game. They think the numbers represent the comparative strengths and weaknesses of the pieces on the field. From that mindset, the fun of the game is in the tight play and counterplay of the actions. A significant imbalance in those numbers mean that the game isn't fair. When things aren't fair, players get cranky.

Frankly, I think it's bullshit. The game certainly can be a sport, but I think it's better when it isn't.

I learned to play back when "Save vs. Death" was literally a number on your sheet that you were expected to have to roll regularly. The game was unfair by design. Pretty much anything a party came across was a TPK waiting to happen. Monsters were designed as puzzle-traps that chased you down and ate you. If you couldn't figure out their weakness on the fly you were going to be rolling a new character. This was normal.

The mindset players from that era of gameplay learned was, if you haven't stacked the odds in your favor before the fight even starts, you've probably already lost.

The game isn't a sport. It's asymmetric warfare. Azlain is built from that mindset. He looks for weaknesses, and then exploits the hell out of them.

On a more personal note, I think this issue is why we just lost Monkeygod. He really wanted the fight to be at least somewhat fair and got really mad about the fact that it wasn't. I don't think that's unreasonable of him. His play style is actually the dominant one these days, to the point where the idea that the game is (or should be) fundamentally unfair to the players is met with open hostility. For people used to a design philosophy that pushes fairness, It's hard to adapt when you unexpectedly find out that the person running the game has decided to throw fairness out the window.

I, on the other hand, love it. It gives me permission to do the same.

Azlain- I would agree with you, and Monkeygod, if Winnow had showed up and attacked us.

But that is not what happened. Yaos was asked by another NPC to come up with information on Winnow. If we had done that things would have been fine- well so it seems.

But we decided to attack Winnow. I don't see any reason we PCs should presume we can kill people and always succeed.

Maybe the way Winnow was mistreating children made it predictable that the players would decide he was scum that needed to die. Even if we are all evil.

I don't see anything unfair about what happened.

Same here! In fact, I like unfair 'cause it's great for the story. After all, you can't have story without conflict, and you can't have conflict without the threat of death!

The way Winnow was mistreating children made it predictable that the players would decide he was scum that needed to die.

.

This is the mistake I made. I wanted the description to be disturbing and I obviously went too far. Further, I've always told my Players that while there are innumerable encounters in the entirety of the Campaign World that are too powerful, I'll make it obvious when the PCs approach the encounter so they'll not pull the Dragon's tail. Like for us, when y'all meet Queen Abrogail Thrune and her Pit Fiend Adviser/Bodyguard Gorthoklek, um, I gotta make sure you know that if you pull that particular Dragon Tail that there's, er, nothing I can do to save you.

In our encounter with Winnow I totally missed the thought that it would even be considered a combat encounter. Totally missed it. I immediately nerfed the Nightwalker that was Winnow's bodyguard and figured y'all 8th Level guys could handle 11th Level Winnow even though the Ormyr had shown up as well. What I further didn't realize was just how high Winnow's numbers were compared to y'alls' but didn't feel it would be appropriate to further nerf him when I figured you still may be able to win, or, heck, just run away.

In any event, I erred by not even thinking that that would turn into a combat.

As I told Monkeygod in a PM, I felt responsible and apologetic to his frustration -- but his absolute refusal to take any Actions in Initiative (especially in a tough fight) made me decide to ask for him to leave. I admit my mistake, but refusing to play bothered me. I didn't know how to move Initiative forward without Magnius taking his Actions.

Anyway, I'd really refer to move on.

Yes. Let's move on. But don't apologize! You are the GM. It's your world. Your story. All things considered, I think that this encounter is fine. I think it's great that sometimes running away could be the only way. And if we can declaw the fellow and bring him down... great!

And I like that you described Winnow as perhaps even too evil for us evil types. This is a game of moral explorations. Where do we draw the line? For the Bogeyman, having grown up victimized in the slums as saved by cultists, the treatment of these children was unacceptable. And yet we do not shy away from torture and torment!

@ Azlain,

It doesn't surprise me when Players take more innovative actions; I'm spoiled with a homegame group of veterans such as myself. (Two of us started in '81, another in '90.) And since we don't use a mat at home and because I give a bit extra XP for innovative actions to encourage it further, we have crazy fun encounters somewhat regularly.

My favorite thing as a PC is Bluffing to the villain that I'm also a villain, pretending to be the new high priest of the demon lord or evil dragon king or whatever. And once the bad guy thinks I'm also a bad guy, the way is paved for me to manipulate the encounter in all kinds of ways. Then I betray the bad guy after gleaning every bit of intelligence I can (and because the other Players wanna get on with the fight). But I use all kinds of shenanigans: make an illusory wall identical to the dungeon wall but about 12 inches out -- and hide behind it, or even have unseen servants (or more expensive Conjured folks) stand in the squares in front of me and use them for battlefield tom-foolery.

One of the things that's so great about playing with new Players is seeing all kinds of tricks like this. I've not seen a pilferer like Mendacius since, I dunno, probably 2nd Ed (when so many still wanted to be Tasslehoff Burrfoot). The CMB builds I've gotten used to in the past ten years have all been Bull Rush or Sunder or Grapple or Disarm. (I made a Dirty Trick PC but he died pretty early in the Campaign.)

It's really cool to see a Familiar that steals my gad-DAMN STUFF -- stop that you pesky cheater! ....It's great.

*blinks innocently*

Irksy uh'ohs, guys....

In Rd 4 The Bogeyman went outside and hid using Stealth. I'm not sure but I assume the Twisting Pain on Winnow was auto-damage, not requiring a Standard. ....So The Bogeyman has a Standard and Swift to use in Rd 4 -- but going back inside and manacling Winnow is not something he can attempt until after Winnow takes his 5th Rd Actions.

Now, Magnius has a Full Round of Actions to take in Rd 4 -- and all Yaos did was Free Action talk to the little Oberigo girl. So maybe she can get into the house and do something before Winnow takes his Actions at the top of Rd 5?

Check the posts in Initiative and make sure I'm not missing something -- but I think your chance of preventing Winnow from Plane Shifting the Hell out of Dodge (pun intended), is in Magnius Moving into where Winnow is and Readying a Standard Action to attack if Winnow tries anything other than surrender. Then, if Winnow starts to cast, Magnius' attack (& Damage actually) will make Winnow's Concentration DC go way up.

....So, check if I missed something in Initiative -- but then see if anyone can still do something at the bottom of Rd 4.

You gotta see if you can prevent Winnow from escaping before you put him him manacles and whisper sweet nothings in his ear!

Given that The Bogeyman was moving away stealthily and made a point to keep an eye on Azlain, one could argue that he can't be too far... Could he ready a charge if/when Winnow attempts to do anything but submit?

Oh, we're still in combat?

I guess I ready my Round 5 action to Dispel Magic as a Counterspell then.

You can both do that in Rd 5 but your Rd 5 Actions come after Winnow's turn.

.

Yaos still has Rd 4 Actions she can take after only talking to the girl -- and Magnius can go.

We'll give Yaos time to get to the PbP -- she can think of something.

Plus Magnius -- his best bet is likely to Move to Winnow and Ready an attack if Winnow doesn't surrender.

Well, Yaos has thought of something. You can read it. Not brilliant maybe but it is my action.

The snakes and air elemental will try to aid others attack the Ormyr next round and the Leopards will rip up Winnow if it turns out we need to fight him or if he tries to run away.

Hey DM Ray- I have been looking at the recruitment thread.

People are making level 9 characters, which I guess means we will be leveling up soon.

And have you made up your mind where we will be sent first out of Cheliax? Or do we get to choose?

Just curious.

@ Yaos,
I assume your Air Elemental, Aerial Leopards and new Aerial Serpents are Readying to attack Winnow -- as the Ormyr has successfully been Gated back to The Shadow Plane by Azlain (via the Nightglass Mendacius stole).

Magnius is also moving up to Winnow to Ready his attack if Winnow doesn't surrender.

.

I will get to Winnow's Rd 5 Action asap -- it's too late tonight (I'm dead from exhaustion.) and my Friday morning schedule is brutal!

But Winnow will attempt to Plane Shift (almost certainly) in some way to lessen the Concentration DC with Magnius, and Air Elemental, Aerial Serpents and Aerial Leopards all bearing down on him. (DC's like 10 + Damage dealt, right?!? Maybe 15 + Damage dealt! ....Zoinks!

But I'll look at his stat block in case there's some trick he can do (in his Shaken condition -- and taking Twisting Fear damage as well).

I have indeed opened up a Recruitment Thread to get another PC in our group. Who knows, maybe even two.

I'll post a Link to it so you can go take a look at prospective Players and their PC proposals and participate in our Recruitment discussion.

You can also shoot me a PM if you feel strongly about one of the PC proposals.

.

Currently, I'm trying to find time to consider one Player's request to run a Cleric with the Asmodean Advocate Archetype. It trades away one of the Domains for a Familiar (that becomes an Improved Familiar at the higher Level), and also allows Profession Barrister checks to be made for both Diplomacy and Bluff checks.

My gut tells me that Trading the Domain for the Familiar and, er, I guess getting one extra Skill -- all Bluff OR Diplomacy rolls -- with Profession: Barrister is reasonably balanced, but probably not both.

Hmm. Domains are essentially a handful of extra spells, a first level power that scales in a minor way and an 8th level power that also scales in a minor way.

The extra spells are handy (especially if they're spells that aren't usually on the cleric's list), but they are fairly minor. It's a minor loss of potential options, not of actual ability.

The Barrister skill thing is roughly the same power as a 1st level domain power. You might consider limiting it to times per day like a usual domain power, or making the player choose betweent he two skills like you mentioned, but I'm not sure it's worth the quibble. Mechanically, it's the equivalent of one extra skill rank per level, which would be a decent option as a 1st level domain power, but not game breaking. there's lots of better options than that.

A free improved familiar is powerful, but it's about on par with some of the better 8th level domain powers. I build and use familiars a lot differently than most people, so I feel like I'm a bad person to judge the respective power of this option.

Honestly it sounds pretty well balanced to me. If I were running the game I'd probably allow it.

My only concern is that we already have a barrister and that having two could prove both counterproductive and potentially conflictual... Who is the top barrister? Are we preparing for long legal discussions?!

Plot twist! The game is about to become a fantasy version of Law and Order. We're already doing the police procedural stuff. Next comes the court room drama!

Hey DM Ray- I have been looking at the recruitment thread.

People are making level 9 characters, which I guess means we will be leveling up soon.

And have you made up your mind where we will be sent first out of Cheliax? Or do we get to choose?

Just curious.

DM Ray- I know you have been busy but you didn't reply to this. Bad DM. :P

And sorry about missing the fact the Ormyr was gone. Careless on my part.

I feel very like I have typed out "À la recherche du temps perdu" by Marcel Proust in full in my last post. My fault for playing a master summoner I guess.

And after reading your post I feel as though I've read Balzac!

You can Level your PCs to ninth.
.
.
.
A few things to discuss:

What do you want to do with the kids -- more to the point, how much time in Gameplay do you want to spend on Roleplaying what you do with the kids?

Should we try to segue it by you guys telling me what you want to do and then I give a couple posts on how it all pans out?

Or do you want to take the time and post each part of roleplay with this-and-that NPC in House Oberigo? Lucius Difax has an 'in' with Countess Tanith Oberigo. You can use that to get an audience.

.

On the same token, do you want to segue the resolution of Yaos' deal with the Bastard, Kylian Phandros, with whom she made the arrangement to gather intelligence on Winnow?

Or do you want to spend time roleplaying it out.?

.

And finally, do you want to segue your report to Grand-Count Marcus Phandros -- with whom The Bogeyman (and I think Azlain) talked to about the Bellflower Network Halflings who assassinated his nephew -- and who you tracked down to kill?

Or do you want to roleplay that?

.

....I would prefer if we completely segue the purchase of magical items as you buy gear with your loot. Normally it's fun to introduce a merchant or two and do some roleplay but I think in the medium of PbP, it'll be better for our group to segue that completely.

And when we've settled on all that, tying up all the loose ends in Westcrown, there's one more thing:

When you all go to Gheradescci County together--

-Yaos to give Count Vocaturo Spartaco information on the Bellflower Network Halflings who assassinated his niece's betrothed Francesco Phandros,

-Azlain to research the lead he has on an incredible archaeological discovery (this is a PFS Scenario),

--Do you want to play out Azlain's adventure west of the Badlands between the Eismonts and the Anferita (like we originally planned), or do you want to segue that as well so that thereafter, when Queen Abrogail Thrune calls you to the capital, will come sooner rather than later?

I'll re-post this later when we are leaving Westcrown, so we can decide then.

You can Level your PCs to ninth.

Joy!

What do you want to do with the kids -- more to the point, how much time in Gameplay do you want to spend on Roleplaying what you do with the kids?

Should we try to segue it by you guys telling me what you want to do and then I give a couple posts on how it all pans out?
Or do you want to take the time and post each part of roleplay with this-and-that NPC in House Oberigo? Lucius Difax has an 'in' with Countess Tanith Oberigo. You can use that to get an audience.

I would like to roleplay that out. I have thought of what I will say.

On the same token, do you want to segue the resolution of Yaos' deal with the Bastard, Kylian Phandros, with whom she made the arrangement to gather intelligence on Winnow?

Or do you want to spend time roleplaying it out.?

I have a mild preference for roleplaying it but segue it if you want to speed things along..

And finally, do you want to segue your report to Grand-Count Marcus Phandros -- with whom The Bogeyman (and I think Azlain) talked to about the Bellflower Network Halflings who assassinated his nephew -- and who you tracked down to kill?

Or do you want to roleplay that?

Can do either.

....I would prefer if we completely segue the purchase of magical items as you buy gear with your loot. Normally it's fun to introduce a merchant or two and do some roleplay but I think in the medium of PbP, it'll be better for our group to segue that completely.

Segue imho.

As to Azlain in the badlands- it is more a matter for the player of Azlain than me.

I feel like as the newest player, my personal questline shouldn't suddenly take the spotlight. I don't want to abandon that plot thread completely, but I think letting myself become more integrated in the plot the other players have been following would be the best thing to do.

I am fine with seguing through encounters that would otherwise have been roleplayed in order to move things along... But I am fine with taking our time as well! Up to you, GM.

That being said:
1) I think that the PCs need to discuss what to do with the kids
2) If we segue forward, I do want to at least discuss the encounters with Countess Tanith Oberigo and with Grand-Count Marcus Phandros
3) There is the matter of the alliance with Count Vocaturo Spartaco, which is the crux of the matter, isn't it? So indeed, a trip to Gheradescci County might be worthwhile.
4) Avalia Greenheart remains alive... A loose end?

Alrighty, so you can begin posting roleplay with the kids.

.

When we finish that I'll post a good description and resolution with Kylian Phandros regarding your delivery of intelligence on Winnow. You can let me know then what exactly you want to tell him.

.

We will also roleplay the discussion with GrandCount Marcus Phandros, giving him the information on the Bellflower Network assassins that you eliminated.

.

Then, all leveled-up, we'll head back to Gheradescci County to reconnect with Count Vocaturo Spartaco -- and of course his niece, Baroness Stella Spartaco. I'll repost some descriptive material introducing (and re-introducing since it's been a while) these NPCs and the situation there and then move quickly to Azlain's quest. ....Once everyone has a handle on the state of affairs in Gheradescci County.

We will do an abridged version of Azlain's quest -- a brief description of the journey to the site and then roleplaying the exploration of the ruins.

I think I covered all my metagame questions in the NPC Gameplay post. Feel free to roleplay it out.

This is something from the recruitment thread. I copied it over here as there is an idea there of mine we might want to explore.

The Shackles: While undoing the entirety of The Shackles would be difficult work, the fractured nature of the Free Captains could make it possible to sow mistrust and instability. Some options include converting current Free Captains to privateers for Cheliax, likely an expensive exercise. Alternatively, we could try to establish our own puppet Free Captains to sow distrust. A little discord can go a long way in a group so loosely held together. If we have a Free Captain or plants we could likely regain a foothold in The Shackles. Regaining control here would also reduce piracy targeting our vessels.

Nisroch:

I recall from having played Skull and Shackles that there is at least one colony of Cyclops in the Shackles, which gives me an idea. The Cyclops once ruled a vast empire, long gone.

We could try to contact various groups of Cyclops and offer to foster the return of their empire. It would require a measure of diplomacy and resources but could be fruitful. Cyclops are individually powerful and could make excellent troops.

We should be able to track down groups through means like commune.

We might want to avoid Nisroch for a while. Like an eon or two.

We had a bit of a falling out with a powerful individual from Nisroch and murdered him a little bit. What is worse, we offended his abyssal superiors as well.

On second thought let us not go to Nisroch.

Tis a silly place.

I like it! The Shackles sounds like a fine destination!

And what's cool (for me at least) is that the Player in the new Recruitment Thread who mentioned The Shackles is one of the Players who submitted a PC proposal three_+ years ago but didn't play (I forget why.) and more to the point, the Baron in southern Gheradescci County who Count Vocaturo Spartaco also sent to hunt down the Bellflower Network assassins -- Valsecchi -- was only designed and added to Gheradescci to be part of that Player's backstory. The Player, showing up again after a few years of not playing, has returned with his character proposal from back in the day.

Skull & Shackles is a sad reminder to me -- though I eagerly welcome ideas and gambits from y'all that use The Shackles once you start on Sargava -- because it is the AP that forced me to temporarily turn off my Charter Subscription for six months. I really don't like pirate stuff and ocean adventures. So I turned off my Charter Subscription for the duration of that AP before turning it back on. (In addition to the 'Pirates are Stupid' AP I also briefly turned off my Charter Subscription for the 'Space Ships-Robots-and-Lasers-ARE NOT-D&D' AP.)

....Back to our game--
The final Halfling, the Wizard Avalia Greenheart who can cast at least 5th Lvl Spells, has a location in a cave in the desert area around Macini (as I recall) and you guys know where that place is. She is indeed a loose end in that she knows the whole story of what happened the night of Francesco Phandros' assassination; she was there. Of course, she's a CG outlaw Halfling of The Bellflower Network so she's not going to be going to some Chelaxian noble or HellKnight Order to rat you guys out -- especially once she learns Arlo Yellowknuckle, Avarin Littleheart, and the rest of her cadre were found and killed. Now, that being said, she's still a loose end. And that can be very dangerous.

It's up to you guys if you want to take a side trek to that cave and eliminate her before returning to Gheradescci County to report to Count Vocaturo Spartaco.

.

The little condo House Arvanxi owns that you are using as a base in Westcrown has no servants. It has been empty for a while and Magnius assured everyone (with DM assurance) that as long as y'all don't spend too much time there -- more than a few days -- and don't make too big a wave of conspicuous action, House Arvanxi will not even realize you're using it. ....Remember Magnius wanted to keep a low profile in Westcrown because if Lord Mayor Aberian Arvanxi learned he was in town he may pressure the non-titled Arvanxi (Magnius) to help out with some of House Arvanxi's plots and gambits and conspiracies. (Of course, metagame, it happens to give us a Perfect reason to separate Magnius from the group.)

.

I will get to posts for Grand-Count Marcus Phandros, Kylian Phandros and the rest asap. Almost certainly Not today.

The Bogeyman is very motivated to kill Avalia Greenheart!

The little condo House Arvanxi owns that you are using as a base in Westcrown has no servants. It has been empty for a while and Magnius assured everyone (with DM assurance) that as long as y'all don't spend too much time there -- more than a few days -- and don't make too big a wave of conspicuous action, House Arvanxi will not even realize you're using it.

OK Yaos will do the work to take care of the kids herself. She does not care much, not being a spoiled helpless noble at all.

On the Halfling- let us go murder her to death. If she is there that is.

As of about four hours ago Avalia Greenheart was there. That's how long it's been.

DM Ray- I am looking at leveling up and wanted to take the expanded summon monster feat. It adds options when you cast... summon monster. It is from Pathfinder Player Companion: Monster Summoner’s Handbook. Is that OK or should I select another feat?

Sorry, accounting stuff crazy at work -- next week.

Checking in here.

√

My guess is our GM is still up to his eyes in work.

Guys, deep apologies for such a long delay and the silence.

I'm still here!

It's been really bad at work, multiple issues have jumped at me and demanded my time. And in the times where I've been free, my mind has not been in the right place to come here: too much stress.

Please, please be a little more patient with me. I saw you all posted Sunday on WTF is going on with me. Apologies.

I'm coming back, asap!

If y'all can check out and post in the Recruitment Thread I linked to (a few posts up) that'd be great. (I like The Lion Cleric.)

Anyway, I haven't posted there in a while so if y'all could that'd be great.

I'll have a look!

And soon we'll jump on Roleplay with Marcus Phandros, Kylian Phandros, get some info back from Magnius from Lord Mayor Aberian Arvanxi, and jump to Avalia Greenheart the Halfling Wizard Bellflower Network agent.

I figured you had some real life issue, probably work.

Sent you a PM about candidate players.

I just checked in to say I was still here. Please don't think it means I'm being impatient. The weather has been knocking out my power a lot lately, so when I had some time with the lights on I went through and did a check-in with all the games I'm in. At the time I didn't even think about the fact that this one is on hiatus.

Hope things get easier for you, Ray. Take all the time you need.

Still on a bit of a gaming hiatus due to work -- I sent everyone a PM.

We'll be back soon, hopefully, and ready to go.