Here begins the discussion of plans between a small group of ambitious Chelaxians, eyeing advancement, power and prestige, in the Empire of Devils.
Having only just come together by reputation, and with new information on which opportunists seize, they begin their conspiracy.
.
News, the First:
Francesco Phandros of Westcrown has just left via caravan to Gheradescci County, far west of his home, on the other end of the Archduchy of Longmarch. He is to marry newly titled Baroness Stella Spartaco in the fort town of Varni in the badlands between The Eismonts and Anferita Wood.
News, the Second:
The Baroness is young and the Barony itself is new, neither are politically stable, and may be ripe for some sort of takeover or other power-grab -- whether as powers-behind-the-'throne' or as chief auxiliaries and proxies. (Or perhaps even one of them has eyes on being Baron or Baroness.)
Of course, if House Phandros takes up this role through Baron-Consort Francesco Phandros, the opportunity will have been lost.
News, the Third:
Some Halflings from the Bellflower Network are planning an attack on Francesco Phandros' caravan somewhere on its journey from Westcrown to Spartaco -- the Gheradescci County Seat.
.
With the knowledge of an impending ambush, I suggest we set out to make sure the ambush by the Bellflower Network succeeds. Then we kill the BF agents and return Phandros' body to his bride to be.
Then, since it is 'obvious' the Bellflower Network has something against the new barony being created, we offer to act as protectors for the new Baroness as an apology for being late in saving her husband. We also start to root out members of the BF network in the new barony that obviously helped set up the ambush on Phandros. Those BF members will be people we want gotten rid of to help consolidate our own power, along with a few actual BF members to make it all look more legit.
A bit convoluted sure but I like it
In that case, I suggest we leave one of the BF agents alive after the ambush is done. I can extract information from him/her so we can find more legitimate agents at our leisure.
I would like to get a more firm hold on the baroness than simple protectors. Perhaps marry her to one of our kin? My brother may have a vassal or two willing to lend a son for the chance to expand their own power. We could even poison her and whisk her away to a more secure location to "help her recover" and use her a leverage to rule from afar. Or, if necessary, I could ruin her for any future husband, though I'm not a fan of that option, my heart just isn't in it.
I don't suggest marrying the baroness to one of our kin, as that potentially sets up that person to truly lead, even if only later on.
Remember, we're not going really be around all that much to make sure said relative stays in line, so who knows what power plays might be attempted eventually.
Hmm, speaking of kinda convoluted...
What if we let the Bellflowers murder Phandros , but don't slay them ourselves, but rather offer to 'assist' them in killing the baroness. Except, instead of that, we cut them down in their would be assassination attempt on her royal personage, saving her life and thus incurring a rather large debt of life from her.
"Interesting. Alfred's plan seems to me the easiest to implement. It can only really fail if we can't locate the Bellflower Agents at the right time or we can't defeat them. But it produces the least results if we pull it off.
Your plan Magnius, if it works you would expect a very grateful baroness and perhaps family. But we don't know how these Bellflower Agents will react to our offer. We could pretend to be sympathetic, Alfred is a halfling after all. Of course if the Bellflower Agents react poorly we can ... arrange for them to have an accident.
On your ideas Manius, poisoning her will lead to enmity if our hand is seen. Marriage, now that is an idea. We want someone reliable as Magnius says. If such a one can be found..."
And with more discussion following, a question seems to stand out prior to the tangle of ideas for Baroness Stella Spartaco: How does one ensure "(locating) the Bellflower Agents at the right time"?
@GM Ray - Where is the PCs starting location? Depending on where we are start we could shadow the caravan or else teleport to it's expected location then follow it. There's a few options but it depends on where we are
Do we have someone with teleport?
You guys are in Westcrown or thereabouts.
So, perhaps following the caravan, using Commune or Contact other Plane, maybe a couple Divination spells -- or there are a few other things that you could do to find out where the Bellflower Agents may attack the caravan with Francesco Phandros.
The caravan is leaving now; you could leave now or even do a few things for a couple hours in Westcrown (if you think of anything) and then still shadow the caravan.
And there are other possibilities.
I was going to suggest some form of divination. But I do not believe we have access to those spells just yet. Both Commune and COP are 5th level spells, while Divination is 4th. Even teleport is 4th via Summoner.
Best we can get is Locate Creature, which I kinda doubt can find 'Bellflower ambusher' especially since it requires you to have seen the creature first.
Unless we can purchase scrolls or the spellcasting services of a slightly more powerful caster, I am unsure how we can find them ambushers.
"I can have Pale Wing follow the caravan within line of sight. It is tiny with good stealth and very fast flight. We can follow further back without risking being spotted. My empathic link with Pale Wing will inform me when the ambush starts."
....There are places in Westcrown from which to buy scrolls without questions being asked regarding the 'why' and 'for what purpose.' If you choose this option we can either roleplay (in Gameplay) a meeting with some members of the Underground in Westcrown from whom you buy the scrolls-- in order to have a future contact for the campaign. Or we can segue that and just say you already purchased a scroll or two that you got from them. (This is assuming you want to use the Underground in order that no one figures out what you're doing. Obviously you could choose to go to the Temple of Asmodeus and buy them openly.)
....Pale Wing makes a perfect, after thinking about it, eye-in-the-sky spy for you to keep an eye on the caravan while following a good distance behind from full cover.
....Locate Creature has the 'possibility' of being an option depending on how Alfred Ensbridge learned about the raid. Let me know if you want this to be an option and I can come up with a DC for a Diplomacy-to-Gather-Information check, retroactively -- as though the Bard made the attempt a couple weeks when he first heard the rumor at the travelling circus and, if he did well enough, caught a glimpse of and maybe overheard a conversation between Avarin Littlehat, Arlo Yellowknuckle, Arnam Goodkin, Avalia Greenheart and/or Amina the H-Elf.
I would like that to be an option. Alfred is a fairly "get your hand dirty" type of person.
I would also suggest that we make a contact with the Underground. Depending on their services, we can probably pay to have them deliver item to places, send messages, deliver goods to us, etc, which will all be very much needed services as we travel from country to country later on.
"Making contact with the Underground does sound like an excellent idea in the longer term.
If we need a scroll or scrolls, I have just under 800 gold available.
I think we should decide which of the various plans we should adopt regarding the caravan and Bellflower Agents first. then we can move on to details of putting it into effect."
"If we're going the scroll route I have a couple hundred gold I could toss in.
I suppose for which plan, for now we just need to answer two questions. Is it better for the agents to succeed outright? And would we prefer if they live or die?
Letting them pull off their ambush would likely be the best option, and if they all die doing it then we can go in and finish off poor Francesco. If they succeed and survive, then I'm for taking the BF agents captive. We can evaluate their usefulness at that time, if they aren't useful we can slit their throats at our leisure, if they are then we can turn them to our ends."
"I am mostly in agreement Manius.
I am not optimistic about Bellflower Agents being useful though. If we capture them they will try to convince us they are reliable allies in order to stay alive. It is pretty much what anyone would do. Then revert to their normal selves.
We should try and take at least one alive to interrogate of course.
Bellflower Agents ambushing the caravan has its advantages. It will weaken the defence and we won't have to frame anyone for the attack. And we can loot them too if all goes as planned."
Hence my suggestion of using the Bellflowers as our own pawns. Since we have every intention of betraying them when the time is right, it would not better what ploy, lie or tactic they try to use to convince that they should remain alive.
I see no reason to use the black market, as above, we're loyal Cheliaxians, and what we're doing is for the betterment of our country. We're not being truly sneaky, just duplicitous to the Bellflowers.
The problem with just getting rid of Phandros, regardless of who actually slays him, is how then do we turn his death to our advantage?
Just marching into the baroness home, proclaiming her would be husband dead, and saying we somehow deserve power is likely not going to go very far. Especially if we brandish his head.
Which is why I go back to my prior suggestion about lying to the Bellflower agents and pretending to ally with them to carry out an assassination, turning on them at the key moment.
Heck, we're bad guys. If we're traveling with the Bellflowers to the baroness, we might as well poison or otherwise sabotage our so called allies, so they're weakened when they make the assassination attempt, and thus must turn to us for aid. Of course, we'll cut them down, and that'll be all the easier due to our vile handiwork. Also, our bard could Charm one of them into being our ally. All sorts of options to sway the 'fight' to our side.
"I appreciate your reasoning Magnius. If we are going to attempt to work with the Bellflower Agents, we will need to find them, and I agree we can just approach the Temple of Asmodeus for any scrolls needed.
I also agree killing Phandros by itself, it will prevent an alliance in this area, but that is all. We need some plan to turn the event to our advantage, as with your plan or Manius's idea of finding another husband for the baroness."
[Italicised text is used in some other PbP campaigns for thoughts. I am going to do that here.]
It is well that my dear departed husband Norin is not here. He would have objected over and over that my fellow conspirators are dishonourable and the like. I was never sure what he meant by this. But it is what he would do and none too politely at that.
It looks like a consensus for how-to-start-Gameplay has formed.
I think everyone is indicating that allowing the Halflings to attack the caravan is best.
Then it seems that approaching the Halflings immediately after the fight (when they're not yet recovered) and beginning a dialog, is next. Your first thoughts for the dialog are to see what their interest is in Baroness Stella Spartaco and the new Barony at Varni. ....You may try to manipulate and charm them -- only to betray them later. ....You may try to feign anti-Chelaxian sentiment and become allies -- only to betray them later. ....You may just end up attacking them.
After the encounter with the Bellflower Halflings and the caravan, you're not certain of a specific plan for coming into Gheradescci County (the town of Spartaco <Count Vocaturo Spartaco's seat> followed by the fort-town of Varni <where waits Baroness Stella Spartaco>).
Magnius has pointed out that just showing up with Francesco's head and saying, "We deserve power since we killed the guys who did this," or something to that effect, is NOT likely to get you what you want: political (or other) Power in Varni & Gheradessci County.
It is certainly possible that your PCs just don't have enough information about the personages and political climate there to formulate a plan. But that doesn't have to stop you from trying.
In any case, your two most popular ideas for the caravan seem to be thus:
A) You guys are going to follow behind the caravan from a distance, well hidden, and have Yaos's Familiar, Pale Wing, keep an eye on the Caravan so you know when the Bellflower Agents attack.
B) You go to the Temple of Asmodeus in Westcrown and buy scrolls of, most likely, Locate Creature (if Alfred Ensbridge succeeds on a retroactive Diplomacy-to-Gather-Info DC: 26) for one or more of the ambushers, and perhaps Commune or Contact other Plane.
(I'm trying to think of a way to make scrolls of Overland Flight a possibility, in case you want to be able to quickly fly the distance from where you follow the caravan to the caravan once the Halflings attack. But it's your job to see what you want to do and make it happen so I don't have to figure it out.) :p
If given the opportunity, I would love to attempt to gather some info on the Baroness. It's kinda my specialty, well interacting with humans specifically.
Also, regarding a plan for what to do after the caravan, I think we need to see how that goes.
Let's focus on the ambush for right now. Once we get that out of the way, we can meet back here(and in game around the campfire lol) and discuss what to do next.
So Locate Creature will work, but that's 700 gp for 70 minutes of trying to find which ever agent I know about, and the agent needs to be within 680 feet of me.
So, unless the Bell Flower agents are closely following the caravan as well we basically need to get lucky that during a 70 minute period where I have the scroll up the agents are within bow shot of us...
Or I could have the spell up all the time but that would get very very costly.
Here's another plan I've thought of:
Step 1 - Go to Phandros immediately, tell him of the Bell Flowers plan to kill him. Also say that since I've seen them I can pick them out in a crowd/am otherwise essential to his safety for purposes of being able to detect them (could even ask him to buy a few scrolls of Locate Creature for me to use use in area with high ambush potential to see if they are there
Step 2 - Get him to sign us up as his personal guard/counter insurgency team. We write the contract in a way that "locks" us into protecting his bride to be from potential insurgents as well.
Step 3 - The ambush happens, we let him die/finish the job. We still need to complete our contract as good citizens to protect his bride to be for a time period specified in the contract.
Step 4 - Eliminate actual Bell Flower agents and people in power that we want removed. Make her fear that everyone but us are out to kill her or only marry her for her power. Support her and prop her up against those who would marry her off. Poison the well by telling her that they only want her married off for the power and because they believe her incompetent. I mean the countries ruled by a queen so its obviously not her gender that's the problem regarding her rule.
It's similar to the plan I suggested above, but involves turning ourselves into "trusted" agents of Phandros and then instead of putting another person in charge of Stella, make Stella trust us more than she trusts anyone else. It also removes the potential for a power play from another area, I mean if Stella is the power in the Barony then there's no one else to try and swoop in and marry her to gain control.
Either way, I suggest we try to get Phandros to hire us, makes tracking him easy and we can investigate the situation in the new Barony through him under the guise of needing to know more to protect him. It could also give us a potential list of people that are already less than trust worthy to frame as BG agents at the start of our purge.
I like your line of thinking, though I'm not sure we even have to get him to 'hire' us. We are all of some level of noble rank, correct? One of us with a connection to the area, Magnius perhaps, could approach him having heard that Bellflower agents are planning to attack a noble en route to the Duchy. Make a case for strength in numbers to accompany him, that way at least one or two of us can ride along. The others can hang back and ride up when the ambush occurs, using Pale Wing to send a signal to them. I'm sure Phandros will have a guard or two as well as at least a valet, make sure one of them survives and use them as proof of our good intentions for the baroness. There's our in.
Francesco Phandros (and his caravan) is about a mile outside of Westcrown, heading west. You can easily catch up to him.
Indeed, you could even spend the 1d4 hours in Westcrown getting a scroll or three and still be able to catch up with the caravan well before, long before, nightfall.
Let's call it 9:00 am.
.
"Manius I think that is a good idea. However, I think we should all join Phandros, splitting up seems more likely to complicate matters.
I agree Yaos, let us make our way to Phandros and join his caravan
I'll start Gameplay Tuesday. You guys are approaching the caravan and Francesco Phandros just outside of Westcrown, and will begin a dialog with him.
While I have no problem pretending to be gaurds for Phandros, I strongly disagree with staying on with him after the ambush. He is our enemy, and blocks our path to power.
Regardless of how and by whose hand, he dies in the attack on the caravan.
Yep thats my plan at least
Btw, I think it's entirely possible to combine our plans. And actually end up a lot more successful if we do.
Keep to Alfred's above plan, more or less. However, when the ambush takes place, side with the halflings and utterly eliminate any who are with Phandros.
Let me convince them that we are on the same side, though for different reasons (which is actually true). Tell them that our next move is to take out the baroness, but we've heard rumors that she's recently hired on a band of highly competent agents to act as her bodyguards(us) and that in order to succeed in our assassination attempt, we want their help. Perhaps we can even convince them to call upon a few more Bellflower Agents or at least some that are sympathetic to their cause.
We then turn on them just as I initially suggested but in such a manner that makes it clear to the baroness that we were always on her side.
This gives us the added benefit of not only 'saving her life' but goes along way towards proving our point that many are out to get her, and she needs us to remain in power.
Oh, my plan was not to let him live. I fully intend to open his throat during the ambush and blame it on the Bellflower. Depending on how the ambush shapes up, we can ally with or capture the BF agents at that point. I was leaving options open so that depending on who survives the ambush, one or two guards vs one or two BF agents.
So can we assume there will be no additions to our party since you've started another game with the four being recruited DM Ray?
Yes, the current four is the group -- no additions.
.
Aww that's a bummer, I was looking forward to the Shadowdancer joining us.
Were you starting the "new recruits" on another table GM Ray? I got that impression, but have not read it all.
And if yes, will the other group exist in the world we are playing in?
@ Yaos,
I am starting a new campaign with the other four PCs, yes. I liked all four of them quit a bit and they all seemed pretty dedicated. I'm starting the Discussion Thread now and Gameplay later today (if possible).
They have the same mission you guys will have, sent by Thrune to the same six other places to infiltrate, subvert, corrupt, etc., etc.
I think it will help me to have two campaigns on this running simultaneously. If (when) one group experiences some creative torpor for playable gambits, I can present something the other group has attempted.
I'm relatively confident that another game won't eat too much of my Paizo-time considering the similarity of campaigns and probable overlap.
Plus, it makes sense to me that Abrogail Thrune would put more than one group in the field.
Gameplay is Open!
(finally)
Let me know if there's anything I can answer to help get things rolling. We're coming into a weekend, so I assume there will be few posts in the next couple days (I can't do much until Monday; I know.)
@ Manius,
Yes, Monster Lore from Inquisitor applies to Knowledge Local checks. Monster Lore is designed for information regarding combat, not roleplaying situations, and Class Levels & Features and Racial Abilities are tactical information.
(You may have noticed that the Fluff & potential roleplay info -- the Expert/Adept's Holy Symbol to Barbatos -- was a different Knowledge check.)
Just double checking on that one, as I wasn't sure with how knowledge skills were combined.
1) Let me know if any of the logistics are confusing. I will articulate.
Note though, that for combat purposes we aren't using a grid. So basic tactical information should be okay instead of specific. (I can clarify this if need be in another post.)
2) Feel free to, at any point in any conversation, ask for a Perception or Sense Motive or, whatever, in a given situation. Over-The-Table (OTT) I can use voice inflection or stare or gesture in order to get some innuendo to my Players. Here I cannot. I tried to include some unambiguous description of Francesco, Vaelin and Camabah's speech and manner to make it clear where you may want a Perception or Sense Motive.
The one specifically I couldn't handle in dialog was Camabah the Transmuter, who "subtly looks at you with suspicion." I'd rather have liked that to be a DC 16 'Perception to notice something' followed by a DC 21 Sense Motive to recognize that what you notice is Camabah stealing an occasional glance at you, individually, a glance that reveals suspicion.
But I couldn't think of how to do it without making the post even longer, and for so trifling a situation. ....So each of you noticed his looking and realized, despite his talent for subtlety (that Vaelin doesn't possess), that he is suspicious.
Ray, a suggestion, considering the type of game this is:
In social situations where we decide to aid one another(Ie, Bluff, Dip, Inti), could we assume the person with the highest roll is the main 'talker' and the rest of aid, despite who might have posted first. Assuming it makes sense for the scene, of course.
Ex, my first post. Let's says Alfred and Manius wanted to aid me, and each of them made similar posts to mine. Alfred gets an 18 total, but Manius manages to get a 30.
Could we assume then that Alfred and I assist Manius, giving him a 34 total, despite the fact that I was the initial speaker?
This is often the case for other games I play in, and it seems fitting for this as well.
Of course, this only works when the other characters make a decent attempt to help.
If in the above situation, Alfred made a similar introduction as I did, but Manius only offers a mild greeting, he would end up aiding me as opposed to us aiding him.
I'm a supporter of protocol like that -- a typical marching order, a typical Diplomacy-PC, a typical pre-initiative buffing sequence,....
But I don't like to make it an absolute, thereby putting both sides (PCs and NPCs) in a straight-jacket.
OTT we can quickly agree what's fair and move on.
Here I think that if we agree that sometimes we'll have to retroactively tweak something and that, as importantly, the posts may not be in perfect chronological order, we can still agree what's fair and move on.
I think it is fair that you PCs would have a typical member who 'leads the diplomacy,' as it were, and that others would typically assist. And I certainly think it's fair that we can retroactively tweak some of the minutia of dialog and roleplay to reflect this.
But, also, we all reserve the right to point out when the typical protocol may not be appropriate.
Yea, absolutely. Magnius is rather proficient in a lot of social aspects, due to various class features, with a specific focus on interacting with other humans.
Next level I plan to take Focused Inspiration in Diplomacy and possibly Bluff.
If there is anything you want to discuss with any of the PCs, post it. Questions of Phandros about his House if you think you can get him to open up, questions about Gheradescci County and Count Vocaturo Spartico or Baroness Stella Spartico, or maybe even the Archduke Kettermaul Charthagnion and Longmarch. Anything. Who knows where it may lead.
I'll go ahead and jump to the ambush when it looks like you don't have anything else to ask or say.
.... Speaking of which, let me know where you guys will typically be as the caravan continues its crawl to Gheradescci County. You could say that during the day you'd be near caravans 1 & 2 while at night you're camping nearer the wine caravan -- or whatever.
On where we will be, I suggest we stay in a group between the second and third wagons as we move along. And likely camp in a similar position.
If the Bellflower Agents attack, I would prefer not to be on the outside of the caravan, where we might find ourselves in the front line.
One question, where is Phandros himself in when the caravan is moving? In his wagon or riding?
Manius will hang around Phandros, between my rank and my bow it should be easy to justify sticking next to him.