Well my little staycation is over -- what a great week of sleeping, going to the beach (almost) every day, visiting Busch Gardens and the Big Cat Rescue Habitat. All and being able to sleep in my own bed at night. (Got a ton of housechores done too.)
Now back at work, starting the new year off right -- by getting on Paizo and playing in the PbP.
. . . .
I hope everyone doesn't mind (too much) that I took a break. I really needed it. The last couple weeks of June (the financial year) were a quagmire of endless pain and struggle -- but I got through it. God bless my week off. ....I had intended to come to the Boards to post in our PbP during my time off; it's why I didn't let you know I'd be awol -- but I just spent my time detoxing out on the sand looking at the waves (and girls) at the beach.
The year is starting mostly easy -- students won't be back for another month and everything seems to be going smoothly. (There's a new law going into effect that makes me jump through a ton more hoops of red tape -- I've got meetings this week as to how we're going to handle the mountain of extra paperwork -- but except for that I think it's going to be an easy next couple weeks before school starts. *Famous last words, right?!*)
Glad you have time to detox and just chill. Self care is super important, and it sounds like you absolutely needed it.
On to the game!
Btw, I think you might have our(my) intentions wrong when it comes to the tree:
The plan isn't to set it on fire to smoke out our enemies. It's to set it on fire to burn it down, so they no longer have a hideout. We'll be sending in other summons to 'smoke' out the Bellflower.
Now, as to whether or not the fire elementals would be effective at burning down the tree, they are beings made of pure fire, from the Elemental Plane of Fire. As such, they are 'magickal' in nature, doubly so due to them being outsiders.
Their burn ability should be able to 'cheat' the fact that the tree is alive and healthy. In the description, it says a creature hit by the attack must make a reflex save to avoid catching on fire.
I would assume a tree, living or otherwise, would not only have terrible a reflex save(assuming it had one at all) but should also be vulnerable to fire, much like a treant.
Burning the tree down wouldn't affect the tunnels & cavern deep underneath.
Sealing the hole (with Stoneshape or Wall of Stone or something) could work if the two exit tunnels didn't exist -- and assuming the Bellflower agents below couldn't use their resources to get past such an obstacle. (And their Wizard, currently absent but aware of their location, can cast two 5th Level spells that you know of. It's be safe to assume Avalia Greenheart can also cast Teleport.)
Sending a squad of Summoned Monsters into the cavern via Dimension Door would work -- as would going their yourselves via the Dimension Door.
Remember that you must get withing line of effect to the inside of the hole at the sycamore's base -- in other words, within 10 feet of the tree. Thus, dealing with the Hunter and the Bear -- with or without Arnam Goodking ringing the magical bell -- must needs come first if you want to Dimension Door in.
Sounds like you richly deserved a well earned break DM Ray.
Now that you are back I am going to interrogate you, like the Spanish Inquisition. You should have expected this, so settle in a comfy chair and prepare to answer under threat of torture. PCs should read this as it is planning for the attack.
1 Is there any reason I can't dimension door to where Arnam Goodkin is in the tree?
2 The bear is near the sycamore. This was originally a question then I checked, but I mention it so the other PCs will know.
3 From that spot, in the tree, will we have line of sight and effect to the cavern? How far away is that? The other 4 are all in the cavern, I checked that too.
4 How many other exits are there? And where do they come out?
5 Did you have fun, Herr Professor?
My plan is to dimension door to Arnham with 2 others who will attack him from surprise, that being our main weapon. From round 2 I will use me SLA to conjured 1d3+1 dretches, who will stinking cloud the others, which will nauseate those who fail their save. I can then start summoning other stuff from round 3 as planned.
I can only dimension door in self + 2, so my familiar and one PC will have to approach otherwise.
6) Can the bear fit down into the tree?
7) Can Mindy stealthily trap the entrance to the tunnels to cut off escape routes?
You can Dimension Door adjacent to Arnam Goodkin.
....The following round you'd attempt a relatively easy Acrobatics check (Move Action) to stay on the branch without falling. Any creature in the branches would attempt the same relatively easy Acrobatics check to stand on a branch and attack -- one (per creature) is sufficient for the entire fight (barring Bull Rushes or stuff). (Arnam Goodkin will have to use a Move Action once fight begins to make the Acrobatics check to fight as well -- of course, an 8th Lvl Hunter can likely auto-make the roll.
Freedom the Bear is Large and thus cannot even Squeeze through the tunnels underneath the Sycamore. As for distance from the sycamore tree, I believe I said the clearing extended 30 feet from the base of the great tree -- and Freedom is a 5-foot-step into the woods. This would be 35' from the Sycamore in which Arnam Goodkin is keeping watch.
Don't forget Arnam Goodking has that magical Bell in his hand that rings, according to your Spellcraft checks looking at it, telepathically to those who are attuned to it.
From the Sycamore you have line of sight & effect to the hole -- a Small-sized shaft that leads to four different labyrinthine tunnels, all of which eventually lead to the Cavern much deeper in. Mendacius spent a few minutes flying through each one of these tunnels. ....From the Sycamore you do NOT have line of sight or effect to the cavern -- just the hole. Now, Because Mendacius scouted the tunnels & cavern thoroughly, and because Azlain was able to recreate an illusion of it -- you all have sufficient knowledge of it, and so the chosen Caster can Dimension Door straight in the cavern from the base of the tree. Now,... I'm ruling that you at least need line-of-effect to the hole (shaft) at the base of the Sycamore in order to Dimension Door. You have just over 700 feet range to your Dimension Door and the tunnels extending from the shaft descend and wind and curve and loop in quite a tangle before opening in various spots on one side of the cavern. The cavern itself is likely only about 500 feet underground but the maze of tunnels makes it extraordinarily difficult to pinpoint where exactly the cavern is from the surface. But looking down the shaft, with Azlain's illusory representation in mind, you can Dimension Door into the cavern from the base of the Sycamore.
As for exits from the cavern,... The labyrinthine tunnels lead to the base of the Sycamore (That's one.) but there are TWO other shaft-like tunnels that lead out of the back of the cavern as well. According to Mendacius who flew down both of them for a minute or so each, they lead deeper into the earth, very possibly heading to the Underdark, and could also have other passages tunneling in various directions.
Mendacius can certainly place traps well in the two exit tunnels at the back of the cavern -- how effective they may or may not be against this group of Bellflower Network Halflings is unknown. (Though the age-old Stoneshape would likely be pretty effective.)
. . . .
And guys, keep asking the questions, last thing we want is any ambiguity on the layout here.
as would goingtheiryourselves via the Dimension Door.
.
..
Oh my god, the horror!
F$!~ing up a homophone?! Really?!
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Did you have fun, Herr Professor?
.
I really did enjoy my week off. I had thought of going to The French Quarter or Belize or Manhattan or, you know, anywhere out of town -- but on some subconscious level I must have known I just needed rest. In retrospect I'm glad I stayed home and went to some of the local tourist spots. Busch Gardens was great. So was the Big Cat rescue and, of course, every day at the beach. Sometimes it's nice to live on the beach in Florida.
Excellent. Everyone deserves a good break now and then.
And thanks for answering my questions.
One more however.
Say all this goes to plan. Yaos and 2 others dimension door to near Arnam, the other 2 start beating on Arnam and Yaos makes her acro check to stay in the tree.
Then in round 2, can Yaos use her SLA Summon Monster ability to summon 1d3 +1 Dretches. Can Yaos summon the Dretches so that-
a) the Dretches have line of sight and effect on the Halflings [and 1 other] in the cavern for stinking cloud, or
b) the Dretches can use a move action, their move is 20', to get to a place where the dretches have line of sight and effect on the Halflings [and 1 other] in the cavern for stinking cloud.
I want that bunch in several stinking clouds asap.
It would be two combats: one by the tree against Arnam Goodkin and Freedom, and one deep below the tree in the cavern. No one around the tree has line-of-sight (or effect) into the cavern deep underground. There is a Small shaft at the base of the tree that leads to four winding, looping, twisting tunnels that, eventually, lead to the cavern.
But once you all take care of Arnam Goodkin on the tree, you have line of effect to the shaft — and that is sufficient to cast Dimension Door into the cavern. (You’ll easily be within the 700’ range of the spell and, looking down the shaft, will be able to get a better understanding of the tunnels below, juxtaposing personal sight with Azlain’s illusory representation.)
- - - -
Don’t forget,
Arnam Goodkin has a magical bell that ‘rings’ telepathically to those attuned to it.
The Bellflower Network Halflings are planning on leaving their transient hideout at twilight to meet up (somewhere) with their Wizard ally.
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How about fun with glue?
A small piece of cloth with a dab of alchemical glue on each side.
Mindy carefully sticks it to the ringer inside the bell, then pushes the ringer to the bell. The ringer is now glued to the bell, but not making contact, rendering it useless.
Is this a doable idea? Can I use the SoH check for it?
Out of sheerest of curiosity,
What would happen if Mindy doused Arnam with Alchemical Pheromones(animal, arousal)? Freedom is an animal after all...
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Hilarity.
I want to deal with the bell first. Then we can break out the popcorn and watch the bear give the halfling a new fetish.
Those are some wicked ideas.
I approve wholeheartedly.
Do people like my idea of dimension dooring Yaos +2 in? And who should be the one to stay behind?
I'm in with your plans.
(sorta)
-
....There's a reason why items from the Ultimate Equipment and Ultimate Combat are disallowed in my campaigns, as mentioned in Recruitment: They're poorly designed and unbalanced.
If you look at, for example, beads on a Necklace of Fireballs -- they're $150 per d6 of damage and allow a DC 14 Ref Save, The Bead of Force does 5d6 (has a way cooler Range) and allows a DC 16 Ref Save to avoid the Sphere. (Even a Scroll w/ Grease is DC 11!) Meanwhile, the Poisons are mostly really low DCs, and the ones that are 20 and higher cost a few thousand gold.
The Pheromones -- from Wilderness, I add -- are like those in the Core as well, DC 14 and the cheap price. Much better designed.
....Then you start looking at the crap from UE.
Tangleburn Bags.
(DC 20 followed by DC 25! ....The price is $100 more than the Core Tanglefoot, but that seems for the extra 1d6 fire. The DC going up to 20 is outrageously badly designed.)
Alchemical Glue.
(DC 20 STR check! Not Skill check. You have 10 rounds of attempts for that DC 20 STR check before the DC goes to 25.)
And shall I point out what Sovereign Glue does?.... On the first Round you can use a Move Action to automatically pull it apart. And that's magical. By the way, Sovereign Glue costs 120 times more than the Alchemical Glue.
- - - -
So, let's get back to our game.
I love the ideas for the Glue and Pheromones, and considering the nature of the encounter and the fact that, despite my need to check your PC sheets I really just don't have time, I want you to be able to use these tactics.
I'm absolutely going to allow the Alchemical Glue to be used to pin the Clapper to the Bell. BUT -- I'm going to allow Arnam Goodkin to choose whether he wants to use a Move Action to un-stick it in the first round. Just like he'd be able to do if it were Sovereign Glue.
So y'all can decide what you want to do to him in a Surprise Round so that he may decide NOT to use a Move Action to automatically pull apart the Glue.
....And for the future, please check your Sources--
If it's from the Core it's okay.
If it's from the APG, ACG, UM, or UI, it's very probably okay.
If it's from the UE or UC it's almost certainly not okay.
(Looking at the Pheromones from UW on Archives of Nethys, all it will do is deny Freedom his DEX bonus to AC. Seems kinda odd.)
And sorry I didn't post this yesterday -- I knew my reaction to the Alchemical Glue (and the Tangleburn Bags you mentioned a while back), but it took some time to show some examples of why I feel Tangleburn Bags, Alchemical Glue and pretty much everything else from UE and UC sucks.
What you say makes sense DM Ray.
I have never used poisons. They just seem too expensive and too ineffective.
Ideally, I don't want him to notice the bell is stuck. Would that be automatic? Wouldn't invisibility, plus his slight of hand check versus his perception be enough to glue the bell without him noticing?
The idea is to neutralize the bell without him catching on. Is that possible?
I’m not really sure. The bell is in Arnam Goodkin’s hand, and he’s on guard for his allies in the cavern deep below the sycamore.
I know one can do a Slight of Hand to steal a coin pouch or something. But can one attempt the Slight of Hand on an item being held? Even if it’s not to steal it?
What do y’all think based on your understanding of RAW?
....Metagame, I was confident you could come up with a way to deal with the Hunter, Arnam Goodkin, without him being able to alert the others. So I’m assuming it’ll happen somehow. And I’m not interested in bogging down the game, causing frustration, or coming off as a rules-pedant. On the other hand, I want to make sure I only encounter PC plans that use the rules and want to make clear, long before something really critical begins to happen, that we’re on the same page. ....Thus, I’m prepared to allow the Alchemical Glue (with Rd 1 treated like Sovereign Glue instead), and ready to agree to a reasonable plan to neutralize the alarm....
So again, can you use Slight of Hand on an item in someone’s hand? Hmm. Would the act of attempting dismiss your Invisibility? Seems like maybe you could do it but would become visible. I dunno. (And it’s after 2 AM and I just spent the past six hours DMing my Home game — adieu for now.
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The general, obvious, and even written use of Sleight of Hand is for theft.
But, would you also not roll SoH to plant an object on a target? Which, this basically is? Expect instead of placing something directly on a person, you're putting it on an item they hold.
Think of the classic 'kick me' sign prank. It's definitely a SoH check to deftly place the sign on your 'victims' back without them noticing. I suppose it could a be touch attack, but in this case since Mindy is placing something on an object, I would call for a SoH were I the GM here.
I also would definitely not have this break invisibility, as it's not an attack. About the closest this action would come to is 'indirectly causing the target harm', which does not end the spell.
Does the bell have to sound?
Would a Silence spell work to prevent it from working? (Can Azlain figure that out with a high enough spellcraft or knowledge arcana check?)
Come on PCs, we should finalise our plans and get moving.
@Azlain, the bell rings but also, according to various Spellcraft checks, sends a telepathic 'ring' to those attuned to it. So Silence will not prevent the Halflings in the cavern deep below to be telepathically alerted if Arnam Goodkin rings it -- assuming they are attuned to it (an obvious assumption).
I will allow a Sleight of Hand check to apply the Alchemical Glue to the bell's clapper, preventing it from ringing. He will get a Perception vs Mendacius' Sleight of Hand. If he notices he can use a Move Action to free the clapper from the glue allowing it to ring. ....Just let me know of everyone else's plan and we'll get this gambit started.
Indeed.
As I have said several times I can only dimension door 2 others, so 1 PC has to move in by another means. And nobody else has said anything about who that PC is to be.
If Yaos were to take two PCs that have no ranged attacks and leave the fourth with the best ranged option, that could do it.
We'd assume Mendacius would telepathically communicate with Azlain when she is attempting her Sleight of Hand, and that could trigger Yaos' Readied Action to Dimension Door -- the two PCs would use Move Actions to enter the Dimension Door and have a Standard Action appearing in the Surprise Round. The fourth PC, from range, would also get to act in that Surprise Rd. Then we'd roll Initiative.
If Arnam Goodkin notices the Sleight of Hand attempt he will also be able to act in the Surprise Rd (Move or Standard). But Freedom will not.
That seems like it.
Yes?
Sounds sensible to me.
But some input from the other players would be good.
I'm best suited for melee, so going along for the DD makes sense.
Question regarding the sleight of hand, it's being done invisibly, and it does NOT break the spell, so how would Arnam even know it's happening to make the perception check?
Yeah, I think so. Arnam Goodkin has a chance to perceive the tactile as well as the auditory or visual. He's holding the bell; he may feel someone rubbing something on the clapper.
Sounds good to me. Do you want me to roll a new SoH check, or just use the one I already rolled when I thought I could steal it?
Once Mendacius's Sleight of Hand is resolved we are ready to go?
I think we're ready:
Mendacius' Sleight of Hand is a 38 and Yaos has a Readied Action to cast Dimension Door when Azlain informs her Mendacius is making the attempt. The Bogeyman and Magnius have Readied Actions to move through the Dimension Door once it's cast.
If Arnam Goodkin notices it (yeah, right) we'll go straight to Initiative. If not, everyone will get a Surprise Round.
Doesn't the glue take some time to set? If he notices, yeah we want to jump to combat, but if he doesn't we should probably wait a bit longer. He could still ring the bell if we jump in right away and the glue isn't dry.
You are right, Azlain.
However. ....Readied Actions get to go before Arnam Goodkin would go if he were to notice. If you are just Holding your Actions then in the Surprise Rd -- if he notices the Sleight of Hand -- he can un-stick the clapper as his Move Action. ....Readied Actions go off immediately upon the stated condition being met. Holding Actions goes after.
Huh. Well that's a problem. Not sure how we want to resolve it.
Personally, I'd rather wait and give Mindy the chance to complete the job before rushing in and undoing her hard work on the off chance that she might fail.
Scenario 1) She succeeds, and we wait for the glue to dry. The Bell is null and void.
Scenario 2) she succeeds, and we don't wait. The bell is one move action away from being used.
Scenario 3) she fails and we rush in, the bell is 1 move action from being used.
Scenario 4) she fails and we don't rush in, the bell is 1 move action from being used (but he doesn't know what he's being attacked by and our cover isn't necessarily blown).
I'd prefer scenario 1.
Well, Yaos was going to DD in response to Azlain signalling we were ready.
It is up to DM Ray what is happening and when I guess.
If you guys are Holding your Actions hoping, and Arnam Goodkin notices Mendacius, he rings the bell and there's no Surprise. The Halflings below know something's up and you all, including Freedom, enter Initiative at the same time.
If you guys have Readied Actions, and Arnam Goodkin notices Mendacius, you go before him; you can act in the Surprise Rd while he's Flat-footed. Next Rd he rolls Initiative and can choose whether to use a Move Action to un-stick the clapper (a DC 20 STR check).
Honestly, I think you've come up with a good plan and I can't see any problem.
Ultimately, there's risk of detection applying Alchemical Glue to something a guard is holding in his hands. If the guard notices he would automatically un-stick it as a Move Action. If you guys are Holding, and he notices, he un-sticks it and rings it. Then we roll Initiative.
If, on the other hand, you all have Readied Actions to get the jump on him when Mendacius attempts the Sleight of Hand, your Readied Actions go off (whether the guard notices or not) before the guard can use a Move Action to un-stick the Alchemical Glue.
Then, after Initiative, he has to choose whether to use a Move Action to un-stick it while he has The Bogeyman and Magnius in his face with Yaos right behind them and Azlain from range. And little does the guard know that by then it's a DC 20 STR check to pull it apart.
I think we go in when the glue is applied. Let us go kick some hobbit butt.
Alright. I still think we'd be better off waiting, but at some point the game moving forward has to be more important than tactical minutia. If things go sideways, that's drama, which is fun.
Lets do it.
Azlain on his steed is now 250 ft away after moving 50 feet. (unless you want the steed to move another 70 feet)
Mendacius detects the presence of magic in the area her cone envelopes and steals 20 arrows from Arnam Goodkin’s quiver, assuming some are magical. There are yet another 20 arrows in the Hunter’s quiver.
Almost all Standard actions require an Acrobatics attempt on the tree branches. It does not look a terribly difficult check. Failure indicates you lose the Standard Action but don’t fall — unless you really botch the attempt.
I want to close the distance quickly, so I'll move as much as I can.
As for Mindy, she'd already spent the 3 rounds to focus detect magic back when she was scouting and relaying info. At that time she knew which ones were magic and which ones were not.
So, assuming that the magic ones have any kind of visual differences from the non, those are the ones she would grab.
Sounds right -- Arnam Goodkin's bow is magical, a +1 Human Bane. I had forgotten y'all had done the Spellcraft checks earlier.
I'm not sure if I should put Magnius in Holding and continue or give it another day. But I'm sure anxious to get these combats resolved and you guys get back to Gheradescci County.
Well,....
I just learned that when you Edit your post it changes your dice rolls!
I made the the recent Surprise Round post and saw that Arnam Goodkin was Initiative 10 and Freedom was Initiative 23. ....So I went to Edit it putting Freedom -- at 23 -- at the top. And oops, it gave Freedom the first roll and Arnam the second roll! I had to fix it in order to keep what I initially rolled-- Arnam Goodkin on 10 and Freedom on 23. ....A few minutes later I remembered Arnam Goodkin's Will Save. So I rolled it right underneath his Initiative roll (between his and Freedom's). And it took Freedom's Initiative roll for the Will Save and put the Will Save roll for Freedom's Initiative. Shenanigans! ....That's why I put Arnam Goodkin's Will Save in a separate post, to keep true to the original Initiative rolls.
But wow, did you guys know you could do that? Make a roll for Action A and then, after you roll just Edit the post and create a roll for something else, Action B. If you put Action B first it'll essentially give you a new roll for Action A! Shenanigans!
Ah well.
There's all kinds of ways to game the paizo RNG. As with most things, if you go looking for ways to break a system, you'll find that it's easy to do.
It's also less fun and less fair, so it's best just not to go looking for ways to do it and ignore them when you stumble across them.