I would like to proceed but understand. Things are at an interesting place. However, if you are up to your eyes in work RPGs will have to wait. Take care Ray.
Sorry again for all the delays -- not the first time it's happened, won't be the last. (I've spent the past couple weeks putting out some fires at work that could've easily turned to conflagrations. Now I'm just looking over resumes and getting ready for the busy hiring season.)
@ Yaos (and everyone) -- remember, we learned Spoiler Tags are our friend when you post a gazillion Leopards' attacks plus Pale Wing -- in case it comes up.
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Also @ Yaos -- just double check that you can Summon a Leopard after taking a Full Round Action (Withdraw). And that the Leopard would appear the following Round rather than immediately.
Eek. My mistake.
Withdraw is a full round action and Summon Monster SLA is a standard action. So no I can't.
If it's OK, I will stay put and use the SLA. I can't recall if the SLA provokes an AoO, but if it does I will just take it. I am tough. :P
And my leopards attack on my initiative I believe, so I can go roll them?
Finally, I will have one leopard join me in combat and one join Magnius.
I'll adjust the Initiative for Yaos accordingly.
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Tactics? ....You can roll a Knowledge: Planes skill for info on these Lemures and another for the Imp.
It is No Action to make such a check (or checks). It's like walking by a Royal Palm and a Queen Palm and a Bismark Palm and a Sabal Palm and knowing (or not knowing) that they are Palm trees -- No Action. Either you recognize it when you see it or not. Same with Lemures.
You can inform allies of what you know on your turn.
Sorry for the delay. Thursdays are sometimes busy for me. I'll have a post up this afternoon.
No problem at all.
DM Ray- Since I didn't withdraw, one of the Lemures may go for Yaos. Before the Leopard rips it apart that is [or maybe after]. Just a reminder as the change was due to my mistake. :(
Oops, yes — one Lemure attacked Yaos. And missed her CMD (I assume). And provoked an AoO from her.
Well done!
I think the best thing for the three PCs is to close, considering both the situation in metagame perspective and the fact that it could be fun to choose between rolling the dice to dictate how one’s PC would react, or roleplaying through what feels like would be funnest.
I will obviously roll a Will Save for Itch to see if he realizes the illusion.
....I should point out that considering one PC already attempted a Perception check — and now especially since Azlain is casting into the area — he should decide whether or not to attempt a Stealth check. He has moved to line-of-sight and effect to cast and whether the PCs realize (or not) that the Fireball is real, they’re likely to be looking around the woods.
Ultimately I think Azlain being noticed or not will just make for a more dynamic encounter — and hey, since this is not as likely to be, you know, a memorable ‘BBEG’ fight, I say we try to milk it for all the fun we can.
(Just don’t forget you’re 450 yards from a Bellflower Network hideout.)
Azlain is 250ish feet away and there's a cumulative -1 penalty to Perception for each 10' away something is (yes, this rule is a little silly for certain things, so i'd be fine ignoring it).
Azlain basically drew a line to where he is with his "fireball" but I'm not sure there's any way anyone can see him yet unless they have a +25 Perception or greater.
Edit: It occurs to me that I don't really know what the light levels are like. If it's bright they can probably see "person on horse" in the distance.
I'm confident that, with y'all's resources, you can find a way to get to Itch.
The Lemures will poof back to Hell at the end of their Duration if you decide not to finish them off. And four 8th Level PCs, their Familiars, Eidolon and whatever else,.... I don't think Itch's Invisibility and Fly speed can get away if you really put your mind to it.
....But even if he does -- for the second time -- that could make him a nice little recurring nuisance. Those can be fun NPCs, too.
DM Ray- A rules point. By the rules as written [RAW], creatures conjured with the summon monster SLA, which only takes a standard action to cast, act the turn they are summoned. This, along with lasting minutes rather than rounds is what makes the SLA much better than the spell.
If you want to change things, you are the GM, but the RAW is as I indicated.
Ah, so the two Leopards would have attacked in Rd 1. (Seems like I made this mistake last year during our last combat.)
I don't think it'll change things, o'ermuch. Having attacked in Rd 1, the Leopards will kill the Lemures in Rd 2 -- at least the two on Yaos and Magnius.
I think it's really a question of whether y'all are going to go after Itch. ....Or find out first who did that Illusory Fireball and what's going on. (saving Itch for later)
....But even if he does -- for the second time -- that could make him a nice little recurring nuisance. Those can be fun NPCs, too.
He's a demon. Even if we kill him he'll just go back to hell, reform and come back once he can convince someone to summon him.
I don't think we should backtrack, esp as this isn't a combat the result of which is in any doubt.
If Itch continues to be a problem Yaos can experiment on if it is possible to blood eagle an Imp. In fact, given that Imps have fast healing, it should be possible to blood eagle them over and over again. A couple of weeks of that and Itch will have a total breakdown at the very idea of us, yet alone coming anywhere near us. Itch hasn't annoyed Yaos enough that she would do that. Yet.
The carnage Yaos's conjured creatures wrought on the Lemures is impressive. Or would be if they were real. :(
@ Azlain,
Yeah, I'm not big on the, 'Well, even though the PCs killed the Outsider, they still have to deal with it later since it just gets reconstituted back in the Lower Planes. For me, I decided years (and years) ago that when an Outsider gets killed on the Prime Material it takes 100 years for it to be rematerialized (or whatever) back in the Lower Planes -- and it may not even have memories or complete memory of its past existence. (Of course, Powers, Demon Lords & Arch Devils and such can make exceptions, and some cool NPC Outsiders could have Contingencies in place or something -- but those would be the rare exceptions specifically designed that way.)
This way, a group of PCs can kill an Outsider in Gameplay and not feel cheated by having to fight it again a few weeks later. (I probably got the idea from the FR novel where Driz'zt first kills Errtu (in The Crystal Shard) and Errtu screams as he dies, 'Just wait, Bi+ch, I'm coming to get you in a 100 years,' or something like that.
So if you guys earn your victory over Itch, you ought not have to worry about (what I would label) shenanigans of his return. And if Itch IS designed where he would come back (like how I may design Gorthoklek, for example), there will be plenty of in-game build up and explanation.
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@ Yaos,
and the fact they have DR 5.
Metagame, this encounter serves two functions. The first is (what I was hoping) an interesting and dynamic way to introduce the other PC to the group; you know, I just didn't want you guys to happen to run into each other in Westcrown and say, 'Sure, let's be allies,' or something. But the Lucius Difax wrinkle and the Azlain & Itch wrinkle, well (and I really liked both Vaelin & Itch), I'm hoping are fun.
The second was to get us a quick and easy combat before the Bellflower combat. Go through the motions of PbP-combat, because it is very challenging (at least, it is for me). And I figured a dry-run with no real big-impact would do us good as a collective.
I'm not sure about the Golarion cosmology, but I seem to recall that the whole 'Can't return for 100 years' for Called creatures existed in other settings/prior editions.
I'm totally OK with such a 'ruling' :)
Good to know. I like that rule. It gets rid of enemies, but still allows them to be brought back by things like the right Summoning ritual or something like that.
Wasn't able to find time to post today. Apologies. I'll have time tomorrow morning.
Everyone can see Azlain.
I can summon 1d3 +1 Dire Bats to deal with Itch. But to do so I need to know where he is and be able to land the bats within 40 feet of him. I think it is an idea to deal with the imp. It is no threat by itself, but could stir up some real trouble.
Itch is visible now, and if we can see Azlain, it stands to reason we can also see the imp.
True.
Sadly, Itch is 250' away. The range of my summon monster is 45' and a Dire Bat has blindsense 40'. So if I call up some Dire Bats to deal with Itch, if he has half a brain he will just go invisible and flee.
Itch is about 40' up in addition to the 250' out.
His Invisibility -- when he can turn it on -- won't counter the Dire Bats' Blindsense. And the rest of you could pinpoint the square the Dire Bats attack (or point out), giving you the standard 50/50 shot at hitting Itch.
It's up to you.
I'm not confident Magic Circle Against Evil can work this way. I assume you're casting it 'inward,' but as you are not the one who Called Itch, you can't bind him in the Magic Circle.
I believe he can just fly out.
Hmm.
Thoughts?
I should have named Itch 'Jude the Obscure'!
Does it matter who Called him? He's in the circle. If he can teleport he can leave, or if he can somehow break the ring of silver without touching it (shatter spell, telekinisis, charm someone), but if he can't do those things I think he is stuck. That's how I read the spell.
It may not matter but Pale Wing has acted too.
" Pale Wing is also going to full move, which in this case is 400', more than enough, and will come to a halt 10' above Itch."
I think we can get out of Initiative.
The four of you are together. Mendacius has Itch's Handy Haversack and you guys can roleplay your characters.
Itch will stoically accept his demise if you kill him, no grovelling, whining or begging. (Or you can attempt to negotiate an alliance, if you think you can trust the damned devil.)
I say kill him. I don't think the little fink can be trusted at all. And i volunteer to do it.
Maybe going with two characters who immediately start out hostile towards the established PCs wasn't the best move, lol
Feel free to metagame your out-of-character thoughts here to make it work.
Just to clarify, the reason I'm not big on PCs doing opposed Skill checks against each other (eg. Bluff/ Sense Motive) or spells (eg. Zone of Truth) is that it can create an atmosphere of one-upmanship or even antagonism. That's tension that is not fun.
If, of course, the Players involved both like the idea and think it'd be fun then, of course, go for it. Keeping in mind that the end result can't be allowed to break the game. But it's something that should really be discussed out-of-game first to make sure the Players involved are cool with it.
You guys know that your PCs are going to form a group and adventure together, so you can choose how to roleplay your PC to get to that point.
In this case there is a host of reasons that you can join together, the individual relationships to House Phandros and House Spartaco, the desire to eliminate some agents of the Bellflower Network, the need to have allies in order to accomplish goals of gaining more power and influence and knowledge -- and probably others.
....Anyway, I really got to get back to work (an important job interview today and I've barely looked at the candidate's resume).
Just to clarify, the reason I'm not big on PCs doing opposed Skill checks against each other (eg. Bluff/ Sense Motive) or spells (eg. Zone of Truth) is that it can create an atmosphere of one-upmanship or even antagonism. That's tension that is not fun.
And I just rolled a KS to see if Azlain's documents are genuine. I suspect they are.
I joined this game to conqueror other lands in the name of Cheliax, not play out a trial.
We're sort of backed into a corner, and while I think I have a way out, I'm not sure Azlain will back down.
Hence my comment about hostile characters joining us.
While I know Doomed Hero is going to bring a ton of awesome to this game, and they are a badass player, maybe accepting a PC whose first action is to basically hunt down the original PCs for questioning and possible arrest wasn't such a great decision.
^ this.
My intent wasn't hostility. This is an investigation, not a trial. Azlain is doing his job, but he isn't antagonistic. Azlain hasn't arrested you, or made any indication that he doesn't believe you. He's trying to make sure that if this ends up going further that he will be able to say he did his job thoroughly. He's trying to clear your names. The only way to do that is to ask questions.
I thought it was pretty surprising that Magnius and Yaos became hostile at the very idea of being questioned about their actions.
I don't know your characters, so I don't know if this is normal behavior for them or not.
I really didn't realize this was going to create such an issue. Sorry about that. I'm trying to de-escalate things.
I didn't see it as an issue.
My eyebrows raised when Azlain asked if Magnius & Yaos would be willing to submit to a Zone of Truth, and a bit before that when Azlain said 'You're not bound right now, but maybe later' or something. I could see myself as a PC hearing that from another Player and thinking, 'Uh, seriously?' But all in all I just don't see an issue.
I didn't get concerned until Monkeygod's Discussion post about being backed in a corner -- I don't see it that way at all, but obviously what's important is that someone did. And we can discuss how to get past it.
For the record I think it was friggen great idea to introduce Azlain this way: Itch assumes Azlain is an enemy of House Spartaco so goes to him and says, 'Hey these guys are anti-Cheliax and allies of Spartaco, let's go kill them.' And then it's revealed as an obvious lie born from desperation.
It sure beats you guys meeting in a bar in Westcrown.
Oh nothing at all, it's just been done to death; why not look for innovative and dynamic introductions. Lucius Difax met the PCs in a bar, but we had some fun since he's the alter ego (or rather, has an alter ego). So that was fun.
"Ah, I see. That would be where Itch got the idea that you were seditious traitors." Azlain said.
"I assume you would be willing to repeat your statements in a Zone of Truth, under the scrutiny of Hellknight questioners? Should the need arise?"
DM Ray is right as far as I can see.
Lucius's earlier post indicated we had a problem. The statement about the zone of truth... it was only the fact I knew Lucius was a PC that prevented my initial reaction being or then again, Lucius could just disappear out here so far from everyone else .
I will have a post designed to defuse matters up soon. Not just now. Yesterday got sort of lost when I found out my mother was in hospital. I had to do some running around. It isn't that serious and she is on the mend but it is a worry given her age.