As the title.
Last game session, I was dominated and almost slaughtered the party Wizard for it (since he wasn't buffed), while simultaneously letting the bad guy get away (and as such, makes the rest of the dungeon much more difficult since the GM said there will be a Round 2, even harder than before).
Obviously, my Will Saves suck, and I don't expect to catch up anytime soon (Cloak of Resistance +5, or even +10 won't cut it), so I'm looking for items that will help me with outright ignoring saving throws needed for such obstacles. Slotless would be preferred, but if I need to burn a slot for it, then so be it.
A little costly, and also not viable since I wear light armor. But, it has the effects I'm looking for.
Other suggestions, anyone?
There's the cap of the free thinker, which lets you reroll a failed save against a mind-affecting effect once per day.
Edit: I see I was beaten to it.
If I had decent Will Saves, it'd be good. But, having to basically roll a Nat 20 just to make the save is still very difficult, even with 2 rolls instead of 1.
Human Bolt Ace 5/Sniper Slayer 3.
A little costly, and also not viable since I wear light armor. But, it has the effects I'm looking for.
Other suggestions, anyone?
Mithril Medium armor. All the Light armor goodies, and the medium enchantment effects you want. Yes, its costly, but with your (admitted) horrible will saves, you NEED to invest in it. Getting immunity from charm/compulsion/domination/possession is worth a measly 13,400gp (assuming a mithril agile breastplate).
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Do you have someone that can cast quicken or extended protection from evil if there is a person with a robe, holy symbol, or lute?
Do you have access to a high CHA person with dominate? They can dominate you and tell you to go about your business. Then when you get dominated it goes to a opposed CHA check between them and the enemy.
Improved Iron Will
Get your 1/day reroll without burning WBL that can be used to bolster numerical saves.
Mithril Medium armor. All the Light armor goodies, and the medium enchantment effects you want. Yes, its costly, but with your (admitted) horrible will saves, you NEED to invest in it. Getting immunity from charm/compulsion/domination/possession is worth a measly 13,400gp (assuming a mithril agile breastplate).A little costly, and also not viable since I wear light armor. But, it has the effects I'm looking for.
Other suggestions, anyone?
How would you deal with the maximum dex bonus? I've a character in a similar (though not quite as dire) boat. Dex is through the roof, so I ended up dumping armor for bracers, but that gives up a lot of neat properties like this.
How would you deal with the maximum dex bonus? I've a character in a similar (though not quite as dire) boat. Dex is through the roof, so I ended up dumping armor for bracers, but that gives up a lot of neat properties like this.
Depends on how much AC you are getting from the armor versus the Dex bonus. +1 Mithril Agile breastplate allows for +5 Dex and +7 armor (so +12 AC). You'd need to have a Dex mod of +8 and wearing +2 padded/quilted armor in order to equal that AC. I don't see a lot of 26 Dexterity outside of lvl 12+ gameplay, unless sometone dumped everything for that Dexterity (which I don't recommend becuase it can end up in ... these situations where will saves are horrible)
The Nimble property is extremely nice, even though it costs 1 AC from the armor. I'd rather have 22 Dex, wear mithril agile breastplate, and have the immunity to charm/compulsion/etc than the extra +1 to AC from my Dex.
Mithril Medium armor. All the Light armor goodies, and the medium enchantment effects you want. Yes, its costly, but with your (admitted) horrible will saves, you NEED to invest in it. Getting immunity from charm/compulsion/domination/possession is worth a measly 13,400gp (assuming a mithril agile breastplate).A little costly, and also not viable since I wear light armor. But, it has the effects I'm looking for.
Other suggestions, anyone?
As Blahpers said, my Dex is approaching the MDB of the Mithril Nimble breastplate. I'm squishy as it is, I'd be hard pressed to invest in more durable armor when the tanks are quadratically gaining A.C. in comparison.
I won't rule the option out yet, but I would prefer a solution that doesn't require me to gimp my Dexterity to AC.
@ Grandlounge: Quicken spells are a little high level for us. Extend is probably out due that nobody even has the feat, nor would they invest in a rod.
Counter-enchantments are off the table too, since our spellcaster is a Gnome Wizard who too Enchantment as an opposed school.
@ Volkard Abendroth: Two feats for a stackable +2 and a reroll isn't that promising of a deal. If I had better saves, it'd be passable. But for this level they're very bad.
@ shaventalz: I could get one made, since I'm not wedded to my current armor, but I'd rather get Double-plated Light Armor that doesn't account for MDB.
@ Mondragon: Yes, it does. But I can't rely on pre-buffing before combat, especially since, in this Dominate instance, we didn't get a chance to. If it was a constant effect, then maybe. But unless it's Permanency (which can be dispelled and costs lots of cash) or a Magic Item (which I don't know of any that exist), I don't expect it to work.
As Blahpers said, my Dex is approaching the MDB of the Mithril Nimble breastplate. I'm squishy as it is, I'd be hard pressed to invest in more durable armor when the tanks are quadratically gaining A.C. in comparison.
I won't rule the option out yet, but I would prefer a solution that doesn't require me to gimp my Dexterity to AC.
How high are you expecting your Dexterity to get? I usually assume a starting Dexterity of 17 (15+2 racial), +5 levels, and a +6 belt, for a 28 dexterity (or +9 modifier).
Even if we assume best case scenario and you are using a Haramaki (+1 AC, no max dex), your AC from +5 armor+dex is only going to be +15 (+6 AC, +9 Dex). If we stick with the +5 Mithril Breastplate and slap Nimble on top of it (and assume the same dexterity), you are looking at +17 ac (+10 ac, +7 dex). You still end up with more AC in the end with the Mithril medium armor AND you are immune to most of the really bad will save effects.
Of course, if your dexterity reaches 32 (+11) the AC evens out and a higher dexterity will be an improvement. I really do not see what the problem is. Max dex to AC doesn't impact your saving throws (reflex) or your ranged attacks. I can see not wanting to invest money into heavier armor but the Mind buttressing Armor enchantment is worth the investment, hands down. Always on, always in effect, no need to worry.
I guess in the end, you are either looking at a 25,000gp piece of armor, or a 54,000gp piece of armor (+5 vs effectively +7) and the difference between +2 or +3 AC might make up for not having the will save issue patched up, but if you are level 8 and already have to roll a 20 to make your saves...
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A headband of unshakeable resolve can deal with fear effects at least. A lesser talisman (pentacle) can deal with several effects including dominate. It's based off protection from evil.
What about a wayfinder with a clear splindle resonating in it?
Interesting. Possibly the solution I'm looking for, assuming the GM lets me purchase the combination. 4,500 gold for immunity to bad guys trying to make me kill party members is pretty cheap for what I'm looking for without having to compromise my current get-up.
@ Cavall: Gnome Illusionist Wizard with Enchantment and Transmutation as his opposed schools. (Ironically enough, he doesn't even have either Invisibility spells...) Wyvaran Warpriest (altered with Spell Resistance), Aasimar Paladin, and Half-Elf Inquisitor make up the rest of the party.
@ DeathlessOne: I started with an 18, and got to 20 with the level boosts. There still hasn't been any Dexterity item boosts (and to be honest, I'm beginning to think it's time to invest into them now instead of hoping for one to drop and never getting it).
Hmmm, fair enough on the AC bonus. I doubt I'll reach the projected Dexterity modifier (12) in this campaign anyway, due that it ends at like 16th level, so the idea that Breastplates can't be used is silly, especially since Slayer gave me proficiency.
Problem then becomes whether we'll even get the proper money to invest in this sort of stuff. The last time we went to town, we got 14K to spend across the board, which I had to spend on some Big 6 items (not the belt, unfortunately, weapon enhancements and defensive items had priority). And to be honest, that's going to be difficult to justify getting over something like the Cyclonic property on my bow to maintain combat relevance in the face of a Wind Wall or other such spell that I'll expect the GM to throw at us.
@ AVR: I'm okay with having bad saves for Fear effects. The Party Paladin and Bless galore shores that up fairly well, and their save DCs aren't nearly as high (usually). But when spellcasters with ridiculous modifiers, increased caster levels (and spell levels) sit there and throw their most powerful spells at us, that's a whole different ballgame.
How would you deal with the maximum dex bonus? I've a character in a similar (though not quite as dire) boat. Dex is through the roof, so I ended up dumping armor for bracers, but that gives up a lot of neat properties like this.Mithril Medium armor. All the Light armor goodies, and the medium enchantment effects you want. Yes, its costly, but with your (admitted) horrible will saves, you NEED to invest in it. Getting immunity from charm/compulsion/domination/possession is worth a measly 13,400gp (assuming a mithril agile breastplate).A little costly, and also not viable since I wear light armor. But, it has the effects I'm looking for.
Other suggestions, anyone?
Instead of medium mithral, try mithral parade + mithral armored kilt. Medium armor that counts as light with a +4 AC and max dex of +7. Nimble bumps that max dex to +9.
A headband of unshakeable resolve can deal with fear effects at least. A lesser talisman (pentacle) can deal with several effects including dominate. It's based off protection from evil.
I was also going to suggest the Pentacle Talisman. Either buy several lesser versions at 600gp each, or a greater version at 6,000gp. It won't entirely solve your problem, but would be a great Defence to layer with other Will save boosting options.
Mind Butressing Armor seems like a great option too, though much costlier. I'd also want to ensure that Mithral medium armor still counts as medium for the purpose of the enchantment, given it otherwise generally counts as light Armor, apart from for proficiency purposes.
I'd also want to ensure that Mithral medium armor still counts as medium for the purpose of the enchantment, given it otherwise generally counts as light Armor, apart from for proficiency purposes.
It does.
Mithral armor: What exactly does it mean when it says mithral armor is counted as one category lighter for “other limitations?”
This means that mithral armor allows its wearer to use it when her own class features or special abilities demand her to wear lighter armor; in other words, the character wearing the armor is less limited. For example, a bard can cast spells in mithral breastplate without arcane spell failure, a barbarian can use her fast movement in mithral fullplate, a ranger can use his combat style in mithral fullplate, brawlers, swashbucklers, and gunslingers can keep their nimble bonus in mithral breastplate, rogues keep evasion in mithral breastplate, a brawler can flurry in mithral breastplate, characters without Endurance can sleep in mithral breastplate without becoming fatigued, and so on. It does not change the armor’s actual category, which means that you can still store a creature one size category larger in a hosteling mithral fullplate, and you can’t enhance a mithral breastplate with special abilities that require it to be light armor, like brawling (though you could enhance it with special abilities that require it to be medium armor), and so on.
Emphasis mine.
Keeping you from accidentally killing them is not your, but their problem to solve. Let the Wizard put some protection on you - he now knows why he should.
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Keeping you from accidentally killing them is not your, but their problem to solve. Let the Wizard put some protection on you - he now knows why he should.
Hay Guys, I found the wisdom dumped fighter.
Keeping you from accidentally killing them is not your, but their problem to solve. Let the Wizard put some protection on you - he now knows why he should.Hay Guys, I found the wisdom dumped fighter.
Ironically enough, I actually have a 14 Wisdom, which is on par with the Inquisitor, and only slightly below the Warpriest's. Gotta have those Grit points yo.
Problem is when your +2 modifier is a major portion of your +5 Will Save, and DC 25 Dominate spells are being thrown at you to account for the other party members high Will Saves (double mine)...yeah, That's an arms race I can't win.
Coming from playing rogues, I'd address the problem from a different angle: Don't get targeted at the first place. Or at least try to hamper his casting.
A few options:
1) A potion of vanish / invisibility. Or several of them.
2) Use your Stealth skill, if present.
3) When he appears, use a readied action: Shoot him when he does magic stuff. Yes, that's less damage per round than a full-attack. But full-attacking your allies because of dominate is actually negative damage...
Finally, you people are a group - I am pretty sure the others could do a few things to protect you or to shut the guy down. In their very own interest...
1) A potion of vanish / invisibility. Or several of them.Vanish is a personal spell, so it can't be made into a potion. And 300 gp/fight for that potion of invisibility is pretty steep at level 8. Plus, taking a shot (which he'll be doing as a gunslinger) breaks the invis immediately.
3) When he appears, use a readied action: Shoot him when he does magic stuff. Yes, that's less damage per round than a full-attack. But full-attacking your allies because of dominate is actually negative damage...That's all well and good... unless the first time you see the caster is when he steps out and commands the already-Dominated guy. Or if there are multiple casters.
An ioun stone costs 2000, with a couple of Pearls of Power.
Hand the ioun stone and a pearl to the wizard after each use. Lasts for the life of the character.
Also works with Shield, Longarm, and any number of useful 1st level spells.
The natural attack barbarian in my RA group does this along with a rod of Rime, asking my magus to hit her up with a rimed frostbite. As a bonus, Frostbite deals non-lethal. Not only do opponents go down faster, but she seldom kills anything unintentionally.
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Keeping you from accidentally killing them is not your, but their problem to solve.
"Hey, have you noticed that our ally is weak-willed and can easily be tricked into murdering us?"
"Yes. He was originally planning to find a solution, but then someone convinced him that it was our problem, not his, and therefore we should be the ones trying to solve it.""Well, I do have a few solutions in mind. For example, undead creatures and flesh golems are immune to most mind-control, so if we turn him into one of those..."
Remember Dominate is a 1 round cast, so unless it is quickened, from a Vampire (specifically calls out as a standard) or he has some way of hiding the emanation of the spell you can try to disrupt the caster while casting.
I suppose Dominate is the wrong spell, more like Charm Monster. Either one is equally bad in this case...
Remember Dominate is a 1 round cast, so unless it is quickened, from a Vampire (specifically calls out as a standard) or he has some way of hiding the emanation of the spell you can try to disrupt the caster while casting.I suppose Dominate is the wrong spell, more like Charm Monster. Either one is equally bad in this case...
Hmm, I wasn't aware that Charm Monster (just like Charm Person) could make you attack your own allies. It is not a poor man's Dominate by any means. It just makes you treat the caster as a friend and ally. He can give you orders that you would normally obey if a friend request you do them.
Charm Person/Monster spells are not a danger to your party.
NOTE: The fight is probably intentionally designed to mess with your high damage character. You need to find a way to solve the puzzle in a way your DM intended *or* didn't think of.
Options:
-> Wear s%~@ weapons. in fact, have anyone with a bad will save wear s##! weapons. If you get to the caster without being dominated, just pin him in a grapple instead of killing him, let the party do the killing.
-> Have the wizard study an appropriate Protection From <your alignment> and then purposely stand in your way if you get Mind Controlled.
-> Sanctuary is also an alright spell in a low level slot. This can be used to protect them from you for a number of rounds
-> Make everyone give their stuff to you so that they're at Light Load, and you're at Heavy Load. Combined with "give my good weapons away" you'll be slow as s!&!, and they'll be running around, allows them to escape you even if you're performing full round charges.
-> Tanglefoot bags, grease, and other obnoxious things. Simply making your guy fall, trip, entangled, etc.. isn't the worst way to deal with it.
-> Have them take a spell that gives you Sickened. Sickened is -2 everything, if they then Total Defense for +4; your chances of hitting even a weak character have gone down quite significantly.
Remember Dominate is a 1 round cast, so unless it is quickened, from a Vampire (specifically calls out as a standard) or he has some way of hiding the emanation of the spell you can try to disrupt the caster while casting.I suppose Dominate is the wrong spell, more like Charm Monster. Either one is equally bad in this case...Hmm, I wasn't aware that Charm Monster (just like Charm Person) could make you attack your own allies. It is not a poor man's Dominate by any means. It just makes you treat the caster as a friend and ally. He can give you orders that you would normally obey if a friend request you do them.
Charm Person/Monster spells are not a danger to your party.
Heh. Heheheheh. Ehehehehehehe. I want you at my table. Ehahahahahaaaaa!
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Heh. Heheheheh. Ehehehehehehe. I want you at my table. Ehahahahahaaaaa!
No, thank you. By that response, I'd be dealing with a lot of house rules that would make my time at the table unenjoyable. One friend asking me to endanger or sabotage the mission of my other friends is something that does not fly with my characters and would immediately sow distrust with that friend. If it was a dominate spell, I can understand and go along with it. Not a charm spell.
NOTE: The fight is probably intentionally designed to mess with your high damage character. You need to find a way to solve the puzzle in a way your DM intended *or* didn't think of.
Options:
-> Wear s&@@ weapons. in fact, have anyone with a bad will save wear s&&~ weapons. If you get to the caster without being dominated, just pin him in a grapple instead of killing him, let the party do the killing.-> Have the wizard study an appropriate Protection From <your alignment> and then purposely stand in your way if you get Mind Controlled.
-> Sanctuary is also an alright spell in a low level slot. This can be used to protect them from you for a number of rounds
-> Make everyone give their stuff to you so that they're at Light Load, and you're at Heavy Load. Combined with "give my good weapons away" you'll be slow as s$$&, and they'll be running around, allows them to escape you even if you're performing full round charges.
-> Tanglefoot bags, grease, and other obnoxious things. Simply making your guy fall, trip, entangled, etc.. isn't the worst way to deal with it.
-> Have them take a spell that gives you Sickened. Sickened is -2 everything, if they then Total Defense for +4; your chances of hitting even a weak character have gone down quite significantly.
So -- Would this character be any good at killing the enemy when he is not dominated?
Heh. Heheheheh. Ehehehehehehe. I want you at my table. Ehahahahahaaaaa!No, thank you. By that response, I'd be dealing with a lot of house rules that would make my time at the table unenjoyable. One friend asking me to endanger or sabotage the mission of my other friends is something that does not fly with my characters and would immediately sow distrust with that friend. If it was a dominate spell, I can understand and go along with it. Not a charm spell.
With which friend would it sow distrust? The friend who charmed you or the friend who didn't?
With which friend would it sow distrust? The friend who charmed you or the friend who didn't?
What kind of question is that? Obviously it is the one that is asking me (or ordering me) to actively turn against my other friends. The spell doesn't 'invent' history with the caster and my character would already have a history of trust with his adventuring group. I'm not suddenly going to take the advice of a new friend over my old ones.
Best case scenario the caster of the charm spell can expect from my character (and myself as a player) is that I will actively sit out the fight, harming neither side until I can think straight again. Charm spells do not override the reasoning skills of those effected, or they would say so, taking away their free will. Using the spell in combat is already risky enough, as that carries with it a +5 to the saving throw if attacking is going on.
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Dominate is 1 round to cast
charm monster give you a save (with +5! If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies)
can try to give the subject orders, but must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do
must speak the person’s language to communicate commands, or else be good at pantomiming.
If your saves are so terrible, and your charisma isnt good... your mates can cast the protection from evil later than you fail the save.
If you want a permanent solution, you can buy a deafness spell and you will be near inmune to charm (but not pantomiming.
Mate, will, is a defence, like hp or AC, you are worry about lose a bit of AC but dont worry nothing about will, and want a magic solution.
You can find it, then your gm left charm/dominate and just save/death will you.
Spend some resources on your will, cloak, feat, trait, four leaf clover, dip on investigator (+2saves & +1d6 sometimes) or paladin, or something...
So as it is, you've got one group of friends who just broke into your other friend's home and started swinging pointy sticks around. Are you going to let them kill your best friend in his own bedroom? What kind of friend are you?
Ok, let's follow that train of thought then. Say, I stand between my 'new' friend and my 'current' friends to defend my new friend. Guess what happens?
Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell.
The moment that any threat goes down against my new friend, ie someone shoots an arrow his way or even attempts an Intimidate check against him, I snap out of the spell. My current friends are still my allies, and when it comes down to it, my 'new' friend doesn't have a chance if I have to choose.
As I said, charm person/monster is not Dominate. It is not even a poor man's version of it.
So as it is, you've got one group of friends who just broke into your other friend's home and started swinging pointy sticks around. Are you going to let them kill your best friend in his own bedroom? What kind of friend are you?
On this whole discussion I think I'd probably brew a few things:
* If one friend wants you to attack another, you get a will save.* Add some drama, because in theory you don't want to kill either one. So a cliche "don't make me do this!!" moment would allow the party to not get murdered while making it more interesting than "lol he kills you cuz you're a wizard." Maybe an opposed diplomacy check equal to the DC of the Will save; and then adjust by possible diplomacy checks of the evil wizard and whatnot. The push pull can reduce the number of rounds the melee-dude is your opponent, gives the main villain his breathing room, and can go badly for either direction; again.. adding tension
* Getting the guy who has been charmed to attack his other friends should be something the caster has to convince him to do. This allows RP options and some inventive dialog
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That all said, none of this is constructive to the problem as he'd have to convince his GM that the situation set before them is unfair and needs to be run differently, which is unlikely. It's been designed for a reason, and the GM wants them to solve it in some fashion that is not just "Run, hit the guy, win." He wants them to get creative.. he just may be bad at doing it.