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Best way is to do battlefield control. Big bad guy wants to attack pc? You make him wet his pants. Party surrounds npc, make them run away provoking from everyone. The guy with the high saves? Sorry but you are shaken (-2 to saves), stack on a couple more conditions and you are set

Arms reach for someone who can use an unarmed strike without reach is literally their square or the adjacent square, to prove, ask, is there anywhere in the adjacent square I cannot attack? (Raw is no: you can attack the adjacent square)

Guys, I think you're focusing on the wrong thing here. I'm pretty impressed with the lack of need for confirmation rolls for crits.

A monster with a x3 or x4 weapon crits 5% of the time, regardless of pcs ac. That sounds very dangerous. Much worse than the 1 damage the monk took

Not to beat a dead horse on the whole ferocity issue ... but it seems like there are two camps ... one which says its deadly to take it, as the DM usually ignores characters who are bleeding out ... whereas the other is saying it is awesome, as you get to heal while bleeding out.

What do you think when the enemy still has at least one attack left when they drop you into the negatives? Is it helpful, or hurtful.

For the post about spending feats on fast healer ... there are traits you can take which increase magical healing (or a level in medium / hierophant) which is a much less expensive way of doing what you are describing (3 feats is huge).

I guess the question I want to ask the OP is ... why is this campaign interesting to you? If the DM is doing CR+5 monsters against you, with additional environmental conditions ... are you trying to beat the DM? Or are you just playing around with making severely overpowered characters?

If you want survivability ... go high AC build ... (multi-class kitsune, fox shape, level 4 pick up amulet of mighty fists (agile)) -- you have almost no skills, but you have the DPS, the saves, and the AC.

meyerwilliam wrote:

Check out my thread.

I'm currently level 9, only had one tough fight, when I was stun locked. Soaking damage is easy

What happens when you have two level two mediums in the same party.

1) seance bonus doesn't stack (similar to two paladins auras)
2) seance bonus stack (untyped different sources)

Looking at your build in the first post, you probably will not be happy with this character.

Most Oradins go melee, to reduce the number of stats to STR/CON/Char and dump some of the remaining stats -- as a ranged character, you are going DEX/STR/CON/Char, and not dumping any.

With your feats going to two dissimilar feat chains (healing and archery), you will be behind the curve in both.

What is the goal of being a ranged Oradin? Meaning, do you need those two clases? For instance:

If you max UMD, and use arcane wands/scrolls to deal ranged damage, would that suffice? This removes the need for STR and DEX from your build and ups your DPS, but costs gold.
If you go thrown starknife and human, there is a divine fighting feat you can take which lets you use charisma instead of dex/str. This is still feat intensive, but your numbers would be higher (more channels, spells, higher dc, better saves, etc.)
If you plan on only healing out-of-combat, what about being a ranger with wands? I mention this as I'm not seeing your healing scaling up with the party. (1d6 channel at level 3-4 for a standard and without selective channel -- and lifelink takes effort (and levels) to make it work).
Or, a ranged warpriest?

Lastly, what level do you see this build coming online?

Celeborne wrote:

The consensus is clear, at least, even if the RAW is jacked up...

"Friends don't let friends stack Warpriest and Fighter levels..."


The issue is that the ability you quoted says the following:

Finally, for the purposes of these feats, the warpriest can select feats that have a minimum number of fighter levels as a prerequisite, treating his warpriest level as his fighter level.

Unfortunately, the bolded part is all that you get from the warpriest. The entire extent of what the warpriest gets is just the ability to pick up feats easier.

My questions is more along the realm of

Polymorph Rules:
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.

The white haired witch's class ability ... is it the use of her (own / natural) hair, or is it the use of the hair she has on her, even if it's from a new form?

I believe it to be retained, but since this is for PFS, I want to verify beforehand.

Last question ... when I use fox-shape to turn into a tiny fox ... does my white haired witch hair attack still work using my fox hair, or does it disappear?

While you cannot wait to take a feat, you can retrain the level 9 feat at level 10 per the rules in ultimate campaign.

Strange question .... how do they KNOW if you dip? For instance, if you take a level of medium (channeling Champion), you get +2 will (class), then your spirit + séance gives you +1 to hit/fort saves and +3 to damage.

Be the relic version of the medium so you never have to worry about finding a good spot to channel the spirit.

Don't use your spirit burst power, or anything else ... just continue to be a beat stick with slightly higher will saves/damage.

Murdock. For my tiny character. I don't have the option of using str for grapple. Forget about weapon finesse. It's due to my size and the cmb rules.

When the white witch archetype attempts to swap str for int. I think it fails as there is no str in the equation.

The better wording for whw would have been "use int instead of the governing attribute, apply this substitution last"

Wow! That is a cool trait

KitsuneWarlock wrote:

I would take those Rogue levels much earlier, probably after your first level each of Mouser Swashbuckler, Scaled Fist Unchained Monk and Snake Striker Brawler. Dex to Damage and Debilitating Injury is just so nice, even if you have to take Fox Shape a little later due to the decreased base attack bonus. An Amulet will give your natural attacks Magic, so you don't need arcane strike. You could instead take Sap Adept and Sap Master, since they work with Unarmed Strikes and you have Improved Unarmed Strike with Brawler. That'll make your sneak attack dice actually higher than a rogue who didn't multi-class (at level 11). If you still really want Arcane Strike, you can also take Combat Feat as your rogue talent.

Catching people flat-footed at least during the first round of combat won't be that difficult: your bonuses to stealth are really high!

You can also go dual bloodline (Psychic) to be able to cast spells in Fox Form.

Fox shape is gotten at level one due to the alternate racial abilities (bypassing BAB requirements)

re: first round of combat ... not just the stealth, but also the init bonus!!!

I am already getting Dex to Damage at level character level 4 from my Agility amulet ... the unchained rogue ability only affects one weapon (not the claw/claw/bite/gore/sting) combo I am using -- and it would come online later than the amulet did.

Yes ... amulet can make my attacks magic. Once I can afford it (I just turned level 4, and haven't played yet), I can look into retraining Arcane Strike. In the meantime though, it'll be 1-2 levels more before I can afford the +1 agile amulet.

As far as unarmed strikes are concerned ... there is considerable debate as to whether a fox or other non-humanoid can use improved unarmed strike. I am bypassing that discussion by not doing that. I agree that Sap Adept / Master is a great combo, my first rogue went that approach.

My original thought for this character was just taking rogue starting at level 4 onwards ... but then I looked at all the juice dips available, and the more I looked, the further rogue was pushed out. See Louise's conversation and mine ... I'm on the fence of just getting rid of the rogue levels.

I love the idea of cross blooded psychic Thank you!! This lets me use Arcane Mark by pushing my nose against things to "mark" them and lets me sniff out magic (detect magic)!

Louise Bishop wrote:
Dirty Fighting is a thing. But since you are dex you will need agile manuevers.

As a tiny creature, per rules on CMB, I already use Dex instead of STR.

Louise Bishop wrote:
Optimizers all agree the more you Increase your chances to hit the more damage you do. That +2 to attack and +2 to damage far outweighs the Lower BaB and Sneak attack. Sneak attack has some enemies you can not use it on and as someone else pointed out your familiar can not flank for you like you were wanting. Thus you NEED a flanking partner for that ability to work.

Optimizing past a certain point is not feasible (once you hit on a 2, there is nothing to optimize) ... I'll run the numbers.

And no, the person pointing out that my familiar couldn't be a flank buddy was incorrect as I posted.

To recap: Tiny creatures (0 reach) must be in the square of the person they are attacking ... both my familiar and I are ... Underfoot says that any adjacent allies are considered flanking (as am I) ... adjacent is defined as no more than 5' away. Hence, flanking with my familiar.

Louise Bishop wrote:

I would not allow someone who can not talk use the skill. Gathering Information requires talking, Changing someone's attitude requires talking, and making a request requires verbalizing the request.

A talking Fox seems cool to me. You don't need to speak much but as a GM I would require it for a Diplomacy as the skill states you can not use it if the creature can not understand you. The sad looking eyes conveys very little. Not sure why PFS allows this unless the person running it does not know the ins and out of the skill.

It could be ... it only happened once, and I am unsure if it was me aid-another'ing or whatnot. -- Either way, I now know this doesn't work.

Louise Bishop wrote:
Lastly, you can not use Unchained rogue for Vexing Dodger because Vexing replaces trap sense and Unchained has danger sense. So the Skill unlock would need to be a feat which you are kind of low on.

Per Unchained Rogue Danger Sense:

This ability counts as trap sense for the purpose of any feat or class prerequisite, and can be replaced by any archetype class feature that replaces trap sense.

So although I could use Vexing dodger, it doesn't seem to give me anything I would want.

And unfortunately, if I remember, the skill unlocks feat is not currently allowed in PFS ...

Sorry, to explain further .. I'm a kitsune using fox shape. Not a familiar, anthropomorphic, or any other method.

I have weapon finesse as a feat chosen at level 1, as mentioned above, cmb is calculated using Dex per the rules on cmb.

My question is that being tiny, weapon finesse, and white haired witch all attempt to replace str with either Dex or int.

The original question stands, when multiple sources attempt to replace the same stat, is there a hard rule on this?

My character is a fox (tiny creature) which the rules say uses dex instead of strength for it's CMB. Would the white witch's replacement not be valid, as at no point in time could I use strength for that roll?

Or is this a case of specific trumping general?

So confusing.

The difference is this:

Me to Team: Hey guys, anyone have an idea of how to help me?
Them: Yeah, we have a spell / feature we can easily use. I'm surprised I didn't think of this beforehand.
Outcome: Great

Me to Team: Hey guys. I've noticed I've a low will save. Here's what we need to do, every combat, you need to cast these spells on me in this order.
Them: But what if I want to cast something else?
Me: Well, I just upgraded my sword ... your choice.
Outcome: Bad -- team is unhappy

Me to Team: Hey guys. Just a word of warning, I know that I almost killed you a few times. I've looked over my options, and it doesn't look like I can solve this. Beware I'm gonna get dominated and kill you guys (I just upgraded my weapon)
Them: Ready an action to cast slay-living on him.
Outcome: Bad -- my toon is dead.

I 100% agree that the +2 fort that the warrior gives is better than the +2 ref that the rogue gives ... poison though, I disregard -- the spell delay poison is such a good spell to be cast on front-liners, that I consider it a staple. But +2d6 sneak attack vs the +2 to hit/Damage/Ref, +4 AC seems bigger somehow.

My biggest concern is via role-playing, to have to switch to kitsune form to drink the mutagen just feels wrong. Don't get me wrong, I have a couple toons which mix-up rage and mutagen and have a blast. This guy though, is all about static-persistent bonuses, instead of temporary ones (mage armor (3 hours = basically all day) or the occasional shield spell is different)

You can actually diplomacy as a fox ... grin ... the way I do it, is to make puppy dog eyes at the NPCs ... might be a bit of a penalty due to lack of common language, but still :)

And yes, skills are not as important in higher levels -- I will never make the knowledge checks (knowledge is not a class skill, negative int bonus, lack of skill ranks) to identify monsters. My perception is low

Re: ring of eloquence: that should be a needed item, but the way I'm playing it, the fox tries never to talk (this is difficult for me as a player, as I usually like to be up-front-and-talking) ...

What do you think of the hunter animal focus? Is there any ones that look good? Alternately, the style feats ... I'm trying to see if I can dirty trick instead of making an attack, but it looks to take quite a large amount of feats ... I also looked into the vexing dodger archetype for the rogue, but losing my dex while climbing seemed insane. Now, level 5 rogue for the skill unlock would fix that, but that's way too many levels.

SorrySleeping ... help me out here to understand what you are saying:

A fox (Tiny) has reach 0, just like a thrush (diminutive). With 0' reach, we need to be in the enemies square.

My familiar is in the same square as me (i.e. in the same square as the enemy) ... can you explain why I can attack the enemy, but the thrush cannot? If the thrush can attack the enemy (even if it doesn't) then it threatens them, which means flanking, right?

With the pathfinder definition of adjacent meaning 5' or closer, the familiar and I are adjacent.

Can you point out what I am missing?

Arcane strike is more than +1 damage, it makes my natural attacks count as magic ... which is amazing to bypass Dr/Magic until/unless I upgrade my amulet of might fists: agile to agile+1 (level 5 or 6 due to fame)

3 levels Mutagen Fighter vs Rogue:
2d6 SA, evasion, 8 skills/level, rogue talent (feat) +2 BAB, +1 fort/will, +3 Ref, +18 skill points vs
Mutagen (+2 damage, +2 Natural AC), two feats, +3 BAB, +1 will/ref, +3 Fort, +3 skill points, +3 hps

I'm not seeing the awesomeness of the mutagenic fighter ...

Hmmm .. ranger, there's an idea. Is power attack better than piranha strike?

My flanking buddy is my thrust familiar ... he occupies my square and just sits there ... underfoot from mouser says that any adjacent allies provide flanking -- rules state that adjacent is anything 5' or closer (i.e. including the same square).

This is for PFS so no vivisectionist Alchemist ... plus since I am in fox shape almost 24x7, taking the standard to drink the mutagen is actually upwards of three rounds (standard to switch to kitsune form, standard to drink, standard to return to fox shape). You are correct that technically I would have extracts, but with my low casting stat, I would be unable to use them.

The casting of mage armor lasts 3 hours (trait gave +2 CL for sorcerer), so that's basically all day (3 rounds every 3 hours is fine).

The three levels of rogue were mainly for the Sneak Attack damage (+2d6 damage per hit, for 5 attacks) ... the evasion is ok ... the extra combat feat (rogue talent) isn't bad ... but the higher level plan I'm not so sure of ... initially I was looking at rogue from level 5 onwards ... but the more I looked at it, and the more I played it, the less inclined I was to go rogue.

Snakebite brawler was initially to get Sneak Attack while not losing another point of BAB, so that I could get my next teamwork feat (prereq of +4 BAB) as well as accomplished sneak attacker ... but having seen the enemies 5' step away from me while I am in their square, I chose step-up instead ...

Great suggestions though ...

I'm half tempted to take a second level of medium to give my allies the séance bonus ... or either two levels of Paladin (grace / lay on hands) or three levels of holy tactician paladin (easier teamwork feat stuff)

Grin ... I've been playing this since level 1, and about to hit level 4 (when I get to do damage) ... Looking for feedback on this build


Race: Kitsune, using the alternate racial trait to get fox shape at level 1. I spend virtually all my time in fox shape and I am the party tank.

1: Mouser Swashbuckler
Underfoot deed... combat style is to annoy the enemy, disarm, steal, dirty trips, grapple.
Weapon Finesse-lite (works on bite attack only)
2: Scaled Fist monk
Charisma to AC
3: Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer
Claw attack, ability to cast mage armor and shield while not in fox-form.
4: Cavalier (Flame Order)
Tactician ... rawr!!
5: Urban Bloodrager
Valet Thrush Familiar (diminutive, sits on me), +10 move
6: Snakebiter Brawler
Sneak attack
7: Relic Channeler Medium
Ability to add 1d6 to any ally's (including me) failed d20 roll, +2 damage.
8: Cavalier
Ability to move during the initiative check!!! This lets me get into the enemies square to harass them.
9: Unchained Rogue
Sneak attack, retraining feat.
10: Unchained Rogue
11: Unchained Rogue
Sneak attack

Racial: Fox Shape
1: Weapon Finesse (retrain to Practiced Tactician at level 9)
Monk1: Dragon Style
3: Arcane Strike
5: Step Up
Cavalier: Paired Opportunist
7: Outflank
Rogue 1: Weapon Finesse
9: Accomplished Sneak Attack
Rogue 2 Talent: Open
11: Open

Level 1-3. I did 1 point of nonlethal per hit, as 1d3-4 is nothing. I contribute to the party by soaking AoOs, performing combat maneuvers (grapple, steal, disarm, dirty tricks, etc) and provide flanking buddies to team members.
Level 4+ I have the fame to purchase the amulet of mighty fists: agile. So, I now do damage. 1d3+10 at level 4 with a single bite, or 1d3+7 for claw/claw/bite ... Starting at this level, for boss fights ... I can use tactician to give allies the ability to take AoOs from things like the boss provoking to get away from me (underfoot).
Level 5: Enemies can no longer escape me by 5' stepping from me to perform their actions. I now have a thrust familiar which has my teamwork feats ... so, I am always getting a bonus to hit for AoOs.
Level 7: My familiar is now giving me another +2 to hit from outflank. Note: this attack bonus also translates into bonuses to CMB checks.
Level 9-11: Numbers just get bigger.

Stats in Fox Shape at level 11
Str: 3
Int: 7
Wis: 7
Dex: 32
Con: 14
Char: 22
AC: 33 unbuffed, 37 with mage armor, 41 with shield as well.
Touch AC: 33
HP: 85
Fort: 16
Ref: 24
Will: 9 (+11 vs mind affecting)
Attack: bite+25 (1d3+14+3d6 SA), Clawx2+25(1d2+14+3d6 SA), Gore+25 (1d2+14+3d6 SA), Sting+25 (1d2+14+3d6 SA)
Init +17
movement: 50', can charge through allies / difficult terrain.

Amulet of Mighty Fist: Agile
Belt of dex +6
Ring of Protection +3
Cloak of Protection +3
Headband of Charisma +4
Helm of Mammoth Lord
Fleshwarped Scorpion's Tail
Cracked ioun stone (+1 to hit)
Cracked ioun stone (+1 to saves)
Cracked ioun stone (+1 to init)

Stealth: +25
Acrobatics: 20
Climb: 15
Diplomacy: +23
Perception: +2
Survival: +7
Disable Device: +18
Sleight of Hand: +25

I'm looking for advice for levels 4+, if you see a glaring issue or if there is a better way to do something ...

Strange question

If I had a white haired witch, with weapon finesse how do I determine which order to use in stat substitution for grapples.

1) white haired witch ability replaces str with int. Nothing for weapon finesse to interact with
2) weapon finesse replaces str with Dex, nothing for white haired witch to interact with
3) players choice?

5 Hps/level is fine for passive/out-of-combat healing, but for in-combat healing, it won't really be enough for you.

Check out my double-life linked oracle:

He heals 16 hps/person/round, and the damage is split between him and his toad familiar, so each takes 5 damage.

Swashbucklers are pretty good tanks. With the right feats, you can be battlefield control with the ability to have teamwork feats with your flank buddy to make it really painful for the enemy.

I'd love to see the builds you are looking at ...

Just remember. You cannot have an improved familiar take an archetype(like protector)

If you go kitsune, for flavor you can sit on a party members shoulders as a familiar. Channeling and other things can be done in fox shape.

Sounds like you will have a lot of fun

Grin. Proactive would be a better term than lazy.

As far as channel is concerned. You get one die every two levels. If we say average of 1d6 is 3.5 then one level of channel is 1.75. The level of medium gains you 2 hps of healing, so on average you are healing slightly more than if you hadn't taken it.

But. Since you value spells more than I do, the tradeoff for you isn't worth it

i haven't taken quicken channel yet and don't plan on it.

There is a ring where once a day I can channel as a swift. That should be good enough.

Purifying flames looks to be my level 11 feat if it becomes PFS legal in time.

My equipment is
Belt of con
Rod of splendor
Phyllactery of positive channeling.

That's it

For you the choice is human for my build or kitsune for the tails. The tails will delay you by two levels in everything so my build will not be as good.

Yes. Toad was for more hit points. As the link broke down, the two life links heal a nice amount of damage. But I want to make sure I can easily take the damage. Hence the protector archetype on the toad.

My init modifier is -2 and I'm pleased with that. I can't heal if the party hasn't been damaged.

The medium level cost one caster level but since my focus is on the double life link, that pays for itself. I host the Marshall spirit, choosing the heirophant seance bonus. This gives me the ability to meddle as a non action. (+1d6 to a party member after they failed). It's a tough choice to make. But if you do. Do it now. Bite the bullet and take the hit. Then sit back and watch the non-action healing get supercharged. Don't think "now I don't have the next level of spells" -- spells are icing on the cake for this build.

For the most part. I channel every 3-4 rounds, or once a fight unless there is something major happening. This leaves you with all your actions available to cast, provide support, or whatever it is you want to do.

I usually end the adventure with most of my spells and channels unused with the PCs enjoying the feeling of adventuring in easy mode. In fact, at level 9, my go-to spells are : mirderous command (used to reposition the enemy (provoking AoOs from my allies) or for damage prevention (if they aren't stacking my ally. They aren't damaging them)), delay poison (cast a neutralize poison later but in the meantime. Your party ignores poison and you don't spend actions or spell slots healing then), resist energy (always on the toad before anyone else), and either blessing or blessing of fervor). Occasionally a silence spelll on the most mobile party member to prevent enemy spell casting).

This is a lazy healer build. Where most of the power/impact is carefully disguised as nonaction through long duration spells. If you play it right you make the rest of the party shine

Check out my thread.

I'm currently level 9, only had one tough fight, when I was stun locked. Soaking damage is easy

Firebug, sorry, I hadn't spelled it out. Bloodrager gives me two claw attacks while raging.

I thought about kitsune style, but the prerequisite were a killer. With dirty fighting however, might just be doable

Honestly. The dodge was due to no real interesting feats.

I like the idea of dirty fighting

The characters I build are usually complex, lots of moving pieces, so I'm posting my newest build here for people to poke holes into prior to running it.

I'd much rather any gaps get plugged before the DM sees it.

This will be for PFS.

(thanks in advance)

The Character:

Role of character:
Sits and listens to people planning, offers suggestions -- but all suggestions are of the type of "how about if we turn into a fox, sneak in, and steal the thing." -- even when the job isn't to steal stuff.

Initial Stats:
Str: 7
Int: 7
Wis: 7
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Char: 16

Current Stats (post-racial, fox shape)
Str: 3
Int: 7
Wis: 7
Dex: 24
Con: 14
Char: 16

Diplomacy -- imagine puppy dog eyes.

Classes / Level
1: Mouser Swashbuckler -- A given, Finesse at level 1, helping allies flank, applying penalties to enemy.
2: Scaled Fist Monk (chained) -- More AC (charisma to AC) -- chose chained for the sweet +2 will save, this was more important than the +1 BAB as this won't care about iterative attacks.
3: Urban Bloodrager : Abyssal -- Urban to allow the rage to apply to Dex. Opens up wand usage when humanoid for things like Mage Armor within UMD.
4: Relic Medium : Champion : +3 damage per attack? +2 will save? Yes please.
5+: Unchained Vexing Dodger Rogue: Applying penalties to the enemy and dealing sweet sweet sneak attack damage.

Racial: Fox Shape
Swashbuckler: Weapon Finesse
1: Dodge
3: Extra Rage
5: Accomplished Sneak Attacker
Rogue 2: Improved Dirty Trick

Play style:
Level 1-3, tank and be annoying.
... soak up the AoOs, use dirty tricks and combat maneuvers like disarm(nice sword you had) or Steal (nice cloak you had), or even Grapple (the move / reposition actions looks amazing -- mental image of me pulling the pants of the enemy, dragging them along).
Level 4+, As level 1-3 but can also do damage

Level AC Damage
1 21 1d3-4
2 25 1d3-4
3 25 1d3-1 (medium)
4 29/31 1d3+10 (mage armor + Rage, Agile enchantment)
5 29/31 1d3+10+2d6 SA

Key Pieces of Equipment:
1) Amulet of Mighty Fist: Agile: Level 4
2) Boots of Spider Climb: Level 5 -- for the vexing dodger climb ability.

Discarded Ideas:

1) Ranger for Aspect of Beast/ Bloodrager Draconic Bloodline for continuous claws. Reason for discarding, when Fox Shaped (polymorph effect) the claws disappear.
2) Bloodrager Abyssal Bloodline, they grow only when raging, which means they are there for fox shape.
3) Tiny Haramaki (for level 1). Reason for Discarding, the text that tiny armor is only half the armor value, meaning 0. Any other mundane armor cannot keep up with the max dex, so would be less protective.
4) Use wands while fox-shaped. Reason for discarding, no speech, no thumbs, etc. Can swap back-and-forth between forms, but that seems lame.
5) Slashing Grace: Requires WF for bite and claw, and should be ruled that two claws = other hand in use.

What is the biggest problem you are hoping to fix? Are you running out of spells, hops, or use per Day abilities?

How many encounters do you need to go through ... what is the pacing for resting?

Do you have a spellcaster able to cast "Rope Trick" or other way to safely rest until "morning"

Chess Pwn wrote:

then how is the two sizes bigger than normal sword going from it's 4d6 to 6d6?

You have it saying that it's enlarge person, but that was to make you able to wield the 4d6 sword.

So that would make the end result 8d6, not 12.

A normal titan fighter can wield a weapon one size category bigger

If you buy it two size categories bigger you cannot normally wield it

Set it on the floor. Cast enlarge person on yourself. You can now wield it

Oh. I see what I did. I double counted one of the sizes. Good catch

Ectar wrote:

@meyerwilliam, I'm not sure it works out in that order. Life link's healing/hurting is triggered at the start of your turn. Because of that, I think the first round of life links would do the check of "Is this person injured at least 5 more than their max?" Including the one on the toad.

I'm reasonably certain the life links check for damage before you/your toad would take damage from the life links. So I don't think the toad would get healed from the life links until it started the round with damage.

At least, that's how my MtG brain thinks about triggers ^__^

Ectar. If it helps. Reread the example but assume the toad had 5 damage at the start of the round. Everything else still applies.

Cao phen.
The toad is dual life linked

Assume it has zero damage

Player 1-6 have 20 damage each.

My life link triggers for each toon.
They are all healed 16, I've taken 10 each, split with toad so I have 36 damage, toad has 24 damage
Toads life link triggers, it is healed for 8, I take 5, split into 3 and 2
Second life link triggers, it is healed for 8, I take 5, split into 3 and 2

It healed 16, took 4 effectively has fast healing 12

Do you concur?

Cap phen, you are correct. I was lazy in my division.

Chess Pwn wrote:
enlarge person won't change the damage die of the 4d6. Since you're picking up the sword after getting big it's not going to grow at all.

Chess Pwn, I agree that the sword would not grow.

You yourself grow, allowing yourself to use the previously unusably large sword
(The whole grab the sword after you have enlarged)

It isn't :)

As it stands, with the toon I described above, my toad familiar effectively has Fast Healing 11 (12 if he gets fast healing 1 from being a life spirit -- I'm not 100% certain on that one) -- and absorbs about half the damage done to me.

You are mentioning two feats (take the hit, bonded mind), as well as two levels of alchemist to get me a second familiar, which won't have any teamwork feats (as I don't have any) ...

Unsure exactly what benefit that would do for me? Keep in mind, when I was putting this together, I tried really hard to get a tumor familiar, but it wasn't possible to shoe-horn in.

Wow, I never considered picking up the weapon after enlarging ... Which is strange, as I did that with my bow.

If we do that, we get one size category higher than I previously posted.

So, we should be at the 12d6 the posted originally mentioned.

Starting with normal Greatsword (2d6)
One Level of Titan Fighter
Buying one two sizes bigger than normal (4d6)
Enlarge Person (6d6) -- picks up sword, which is now one size category bigger than the character, which is able to be used via Titan Fighter
Primal Warrior Stance (12d6)

Volkard Abendroth wrote:

He should try using an oversized bastard sword instead of a greatsword.

He'll get 8d6

Naw. Stick with great sword.

Grab a level of titan fighter, now you wield a large 2-handed.
Use primal warrior stance (gargantuan)
Enlarge person/bloodrager (colossal)

I'm unsure if it's 8 or 9d6 but either way. It's nice and opens you up to using the divine fighting feat so you can use vital strike more often.

My plan is Purifying Channel at 9 and Quicken Channel at 11, unless there is something better.

As it's stood, I've only had one tough time healing, and that was when I was stun locked ... Last night, I was on the other side of the battle map, life link was still in medium range (so active), all terrain was difficult, all PCs were flying/haste/expeditious retreat, so I just stayed medium range ... only spell I cast, was a full-round Silence on our party's grappling bloodrager, the enemy spellcaster went from scary to a kitten. I do need to figure out some longer range spells to add to my spells known, but that'll wait until I level.

I'd like Reactive Channel, but with the Toad and a high Con score, it'll be tough to need reactive ...

Melkiador wrote:
According to the Archives of Nethys it's PFS legal. I'm not sure if Kitsune are still up for grabs, or if you need a boon though. And I'd put the protector archetype on that toad familiar, if you didn't already.


Unsure if you noticed, but Protector was already applied and spelled out :)

Re: Kitsune ... ah, if only I could have been Kitsune, but I needed the feat from Human -- level 1 is fey foundling and selective channel. Level 3 is Extra Revelation (life link), level 5 is skill focus, level 7 is arcane heritage ... none of which is viable to give up

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Here is the list of tricks I am using:

1) Toad Protector Familiar from Arcane Heritage -- 3 extra hps, can divide damage dealt to me between the toad and myself as a non-action.
2) Double Life Link on people -- one from Oracle, and one from my wandering spirit hex
3) One level dip in Medium, channeling Marshal Spirit (lesser spirit power is to give my teammates a +1d6 to basically any d20 roll after we learn its a failure)
4) Choosing the séance power of Hierophant, which increases healing (my life link) by 2
5) Taking the scar trait from healer's handbook to increase healing (my life link) by 1
6) Fey Foundling (increased healing on me)
7) Double Channel pool (oracle and wandering spirit).
8) Life link my toad familiar.
9) Purifying channel when it becomes PFS legal (deal damage while channeling to heal)

So, as a non-action, at the beginning of my turn, I can heal everyone up to 16 points of damage, and both me and my toad take 5 damage per player. This is easily sustained, and easily my favorite healer yet.

I'm not familiar with the Kitsune trick ... is it PFS legal?

Melkiador wrote:
Those must have been some rough rolls. A 16 charisma on a level 7 oracle is quite low.

My actual charisma is higher. Last night (first time as character level 8) the dm and the normal dm were amazed at the sheer volume of channels. After the game ended I walked them through the build, they expressed concern as "this cannot be legal" as either I shouldn't have both pools. Or both pools should have different intensities.

For purposes of representing the character I simplified it by posting lower numbers

For instance. I am using an ioun stone for a +2 charisma while wearing my phyllactery. When I get a lot more gold I'll be selling the stone to buy a rod of ruler ship.

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