Dominate is 1 round to cast
charm monster give you a save (with +5! If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies)
can try to give the subject orders, but must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do
must speak the person’s language to communicate commands, or else be good at pantomiming.
If your saves are so terrible, and your charisma isnt good... your mates can cast the protection from evil later than you fail the save.
If you want a permanent solution, you can buy a deafness spell and you will be near inmune to charm (but not pantomiming.
Mate, will, is a defence, like hp or AC, you are worry about lose a bit of AC but dont worry nothing about will, and want a magic solution.
You can find it, then your gm left charm/dominate and just save/death will you.
Spend some resources on your will, cloak, feat, trait, four leaf clover, dip on investigator (+2saves & +1d6 sometimes) or paladin, or something...
I rolled a 2 on the save. No way I would make that.
Charisma is dumped, but the GM does give me a save each round instead. Even rolling a 15 wasn't high enough, hence why I'd rather not face the uphill battle that is the arms race and just find a way to ditch it altogether.
Creature has telepathy, and speaks Common, so giving orders isn't an issue.
PFE only gives a reroll if I'm already charmed/dominated, not immunity, which applies before I'm affected. No pre-buffing means PFE functions like Cap of the Free Thinker, which is meh in this situation.
Other solution is a mate hold person on you
Wizard has Enchantment as an opposed school, so that's not gonna work either.
I liked the deafness suggestion, go buy an item that makes you deaf. If you cannot hear anything, you cannot follow orders.
Other solution is a mate hold person on youWizard has Enchantment as an opposed school, so that's not gonna work either.
Just a heads up since you mentioned this earlier: The wizard can still dominate you in advance if he has the spell available, even if enchantment is one of his opposition schools - it'll just take up two spell slots of the equivalent level, instead of one.
Now, since he's chosen it as one of his opposition schools, chances are he probably didn't bother prioritising getting it in his spellbook, but it is at least an option, given how it lasts for days/level. Prepare it when not adventuring?
That said, it's a level 5 spell, so this is probably a level 9+ thought.
I think it would help if you posted your build, items and available gold. Then people could give you specific advice for your situation.
I liked the deafness suggestion, go buy an item that makes you deaf. If you cannot hear anything, you cannot follow orders.
Doesn't work against telepathy, which is how I was directed while charmed/dominated. Still a good idea to have something like ear plugs, since other sound-based effects will be apparent.
Check out some wax of defiance?
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If your enemies are throwing optimized Dominate/Charm DCs, and you're playing a low-Will class, sure, you're legitimately going to be in trouble.
Let's assume for a second that your GM also wants to use the new version of the clear spindle (not-that-stealthy-if-not-outright-obvious-errata). And assume he keeps an eye on what's allowed in PFS, so he doesn't allow mind-buttressing armor either. (Gee, it starts to look like he doesn't want some schools of magic to be easily foiled.)
Invest in your team. Emotionally. To the point where any command to attack the rest of your team counts as "acting against your nature" or "things you would never do". In fact, cultivate a bond of trust so that any command to "resist your friends' (harmless) spells" would be hinky.
Second, provide anyone in your team who can cast it with scrolls of Suppress Charms and Compulsions. If the GM is using the New Spindle, that should also mean the New Suppress is on the table, which is perhaps more puissant than the old version.
Now, as soon as any bad guy tries to dominate you but doesn't remember to immediately instruct you to resist your allies' spells, they can intervene.
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Apart from that, buy the +5 Cloak anyway. It's just plain good. And if you can drag up your will saves to the point where you save on an 18 instead of a 20, it means enemies will have to start respecting things that grant you additional saves.
Have your cleric cast protection from evil before any combat with a caster.
OR you can spend ridiculous amounts of gold instead. Your call.
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So in my home cooked, non-GMO napkin math, I've figued that a Fighter with 12 starting Wisdom and some minimal supoort (Iron Will, Indomitable Faith trait) can be close to a Wizard in base will saves. Considering your 14 starting and clean class split (same base Will as a single class martial) you ahould have no problems hitting the baseline expectations with a decent cloak. I garuntee the net +3 feat/trait combo will have you set in a normal campaign.
All that said, if the campaign is still punishing you, then it's time to think outside the box. Your Wizard is one level away from being able to learn Dominate Person. Consider pooling gold to get a scroll for transcription into his book. Sure, enchantment is a restricted school, but on off days your character can submit for domination. This offers a sort of protection, as anyone else who slaps a leash onto you will have to compete with your Wizard giving orders.
Edit: Alternatively, a dip in Spiritualist. 2 base will from the level, and you can take a Phantom with the Dedication emotional focus. What it's riding inside of your head (and it should) you get Iron Will as a bonus feat. Being an odd level, you can take Extra Traits for Indomitable Faith. Plus, I bet you bear for butts that you can afford an upgrade to your cloak by now.
If a +6 swing to an already passable will save won't help, then the error may be on the GM's encounter design.
Have your cleric cast protection from evil before any combat with a caster.
OR you can spend ridiculous amounts of gold instead. Your call.
I already stated the party composition earlier in the thread. None of which contains a Cleric. (We actually make a joke about this every game session when our Warpriest, Inquisitor, and Paladin never want to cast heal spells or buffs on other characters, saying something along the lines of "Remember when we had Clerics?") Suggesting a class that we don't possess as a means to solve the problem is a strawman. Strawmen don't help unless you're feeding them to horses and other livestock. This campaign is not Farm Simulator 2017. Therefore, the advice is useless.
@ Zeroiris: Sure, I'll just have my character commit sudoku and make another one as a race that the GM will most likely not allow, leaving my teammates to try and fend for themselves (most likely resulting in a TPK) until the GM finds an appropriate plot point to introduce said new character. Great plan if I want to prematurely end the campaign (which is an AP by the way) and start a new one. Wouldn't mind playing a Blasting Arcanist or a Bard/Paladin. But I don't think the other players or the GM would appreciate that of me.
@ Ascalaphus: We're technically at that stage already, but the GM is making Enchantment spells such as this a bit more powerful. He's done this with Charm spells we've used in previous campaigns (so they aren't extremely gimped), and with Illusion spells in this current campaign (our Illusionist is basically able to trivialize a lot of encounters with the proper illusions).
And if that wasn't enough, the creature we are fighting is very persuasive with its Diplomacy and mind-affecting telepathy. So, I can't expect to fight it on that level, hence why a solution like the Wayfinder combination or the Mind Buttressing Mithril Breastplate would be more ideal. (That's a really weird name for a property...)
I'll have to buy the cloak +5 anyway because of the game's assumption that I'll have it, so I can keep pace with the other two saves I'm good at. Granted, I'm the highest of the party in the other two departments, that doesn't mean my saves in those areas won't be tested.
@ Rosc: I find having to spend both a trait and a feat to shore up Will Saves to be a hefty requirement of any class, especially with a combat style as feat-heavy as mine is, and with feat options starting to open up significantly at the levels we're reaching. Not saying I won't do it, just that I can't reliably expect it to be available at this point in time.
The Wizard's Charisma score is junk, so even with opposed Dominations/Charms going on, he'll get owned by the typical monster that has it as an SLA due to typical monster scaling. Remember that Vampire, and how they're usually high Charisma due to being Undead? That's gonna be coming up soon, I imagine, and they're gonna stomp the floor with the Wizard.
Dipping, while it can be a nice solution, is something that my fellow players will yell at me for doing since I did it last game for (purely) min-maxing purposes. I don't care that I did it that time, but I'd rather not frustrate my fellow players any more than what I already have.
As I've said to Zeroiris, this is actually an AP that this is happening. The BBEG might be juiced up with the Advanced template to account for a fifth player, but it certainly doesn't account for their ridiculous save DCs, or even how many Save/Suck effects for all of the creatures we've faced so far.
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It seems your save is 20 lower than the DC of the spell a dumped Cha against a optimized sorcerer is not going to be 20 until very late in the game so the idea of casting dominate may still be worth considering along with the sources of immunity mentioned.
I spend a feat and a trait to sure up saves on most low will builds including a TWF Sword and Board Slayer and archer builds I have never regretted it. I have gone further to play half elves for better will and some additional situational bonuses and found a lot of value in that (though not an option for you this time).
When you start investing in items Knight's Pennon (Battle) is worth a look.
Dipping to fill a hole in the build and not adding to your build's main goal is literally the opposite of min/maxing. Whereas not investing in gear for saves to buy other things and not spending feats on Iron will could very well fall into the text book definition of min/maxing. Does your group dislike min/maxing, optimization, dipping generally or non-story decisions?
I already stated the party composition earlier in the thread. None of which contains a Cleric.Have your cleric cast protection from evil before any combat with a caster.
OR you can spend ridiculous amounts of gold instead. Your call.
The class is irrelevant; your entire party (except you) can cast Protection From Evil. Scrolls cost 25gp (more if you want it at a higher level) if they don't want to use spell slots.
Suggesting a class that we don't possess as a means to solve the problem is a strawman.
no it isn't.
@ Zeroiris: Sure, I'll just have my character commit sudoku and make another one as a race that the GM will most likely not allow, leaving my teammates to try and fend for themselves (most likely resulting in a TPK) until the GM finds an appropriate plot point to introduce said new character. Great plan if I want to prematurely end the campaign (which is an AP by the way) and start a new one. Wouldn't mind playing a Blasting Arcanist or a Bard/Paladin. But I don't think the other players or the GM would appreciate that of me.
People are trying to help you, there is no need to be rude to them if you don't like the suggestion. Its not like your problem is easy to fix.
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The Clear Spindle resonance power in a wayfinder is no longer constant protection from mental control like the Protection from Evil spell, it's now limited to 1/day standard action activation at CL 12th, or you can burn out the stone entirely to activate it as an immediate action if you're about to be hit with a possession/control effect.
This change happened as per the release of the Adventurer's Guide
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So your players will yell at you for dipping when it's a solution to you being a liability in combat? I mean, I understand the Spiritualist. That one has very strong lore tied to it. But in general? Thay may have some powerful preconceptions that can hamper your fun.
Iron Will as a tax is kind of lame, yeah. But I consider it just as much of a "core feat" as Rapid Shot or Power Attack. It's just a thing you should get.
If multiclassing is heretical, Iron Will is out of your reach at the moment, the Wizard won't carry a backup spell to knock you out, and you're on the fast track to Will Save City in the fine state of GM Overtuned Encounters? Then it may be time to ask the GM for some free retraining.
Edit: I really don't want to suggest retiring the character, but based on the currently available data it almost feels like the GM is specifically punishing players who dare to bring muggles into the game. Either that or it's an AP with a janky difficulty curve. Talk to the GM.
Edit 2: as for feat/trait taxes being a bit much? They kind of are, but the meta mucks it up. Wizardly types would consider Great Fortitude as much of a tax, but they tend to get Con belts and keep them up to date. Grit classes and Rangers aldo get Wis gear, but it's usually a lower priority over things like weapons and armor, two more investments the casters never have to make.
The class is irrelevant; your entire party (except you) can cast Protection From Evil. Scrolls cost 25gp (more if you want it at a higher level) if they don't want to use spell slots.I already stated the party composition earlier in the thread. None of which contains a Cleric.Have your cleric cast protection from evil before any combat with a caster.
OR you can spend ridiculous amounts of gold instead. Your call.
If they aren't willing to burn spells in the midst of combat, then I can't expect them to use scrolls either, even if I pay for them myself, out of my own pockets. (Personal) Action Economy is precious to these guys (as it should be), so expecting them to do something for me that's not out of their way isn't exactly a part of their playstyle.
Even if they could, as I've stated we are rarely given the option to pre-buff since three of our party members are Heavy Armor wearers (which means their Stealth sucks and anything can hear them for miles away), so it's not a reliable tactic.
@ Chromatic Durgon: I met sarcasm with sarcasm (well, mostly sarcasm). There's nothing wrong with that. Remember the saying "Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself?" (I also don't even know what a Ghoran is or how it's supposed to help my problem, and I doubt the poster will come in and iterate that for me.)
@ Sir Thugsalot: Dipping is out of the question via ridicule from the other players as I did that last campaign for pure min-max purposes and they hated me for it (don't ask why). I'd also end up using the Fervor for Quickened Divine Favor for +1 to attack and damage before using it for Protection from Evil, since my to-hit is never high enough to properly contribute, it seems.
@ Mondragon: If the Wayfinder option has been nerfed in an official Hardcover book, then I can assure you that the GM will use that nerfed version (since that's what we did with Crane Style when there was a wording dispute and I had to point out that the nerfed version was the recently printed one).
So, it looks like the specialized armor is the only solution I can trust. Not a complaint, it gives me something to work towards, among the other things that I need to have (Greater Sniper Goggles, +5 Cyclonic Weapon, +5 Other Big Six items, +6 Belt and Headbands)...
@ Chromatic Durgon: I met sarcasm with sarcasm (well, mostly sarcasm). There's nothing wrong with that. Remember the saying "Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself?" (I also don't even know what a Ghoran is or how it's supposed to help my problem, and I doubt the poster will come in and iterate that for me
You're reaction seemed abrasive to me, you met one humerous and honestly still pretty helpful comment with a tyrade of sarcasm. Each to their own I guess.
Ghoran are plant people.
Do you have someone that can cast quicken or extended protection from evil if there is a person with a robe, holy symbol, or lute?
Do you have access to a high CHA person with dominate? They can dominate you and tell you to go about your business. Then when you get dominated it goes to a opposed CHA check between them and the enemy.
I had a sorcerer who regurally did this. Especially with higher level stuff. This can be useful too, suppres charms and compulsions
The class is irrelevant; your entire party (except you) can cast Protection From Evil. Scrolls cost 25gp (more if you want it at a higher level) if they don't want to use spell slots.I already stated the party composition earlier in the thread. None of which contains a Cleric.Have your cleric cast protection from evil before any combat with a caster.
OR you can spend ridiculous amounts of gold instead. Your call.
If they aren't willing to burn spells in the midst of combat, then I can't expect them to use scrolls either, even if I pay for them myself, out of my own pockets. (Personal) Action Economy is precious to these guys (as it should be), so expecting them to do something for me that's not out of their way isn't exactly a part of their playstyle.
Even if they could, as I've stated we are rarely given the option to pre-buff since three of our party members are Heavy Armor wearers (which means their Stealth sucks and anything can hear them for miles away), so it's not a reliable tactic.
Characters that you've slaughtered when you are mind-controlled have zero action economy. Spending one combat round to prevent their own deaths is not so much to ask in the grand scheme. Is it really better in their minds that you spend thousands of gold to prevent something solved with one round worth of actions and 25gp than it is to spend those thousands of gold on equipment that will make you a much better combatant for the many occasions that mind-control is not a concern? Seems to me like a heavy investment into dealing with what should be a fairly uncommon threat.
This is small, but it isn't a large investment: Runeward Tattoo
It only gives a +1 insight bonus vs. a single school of magic... but you just want to prevent mind control (enchantment), so it is easy enough to target. It also allows you to use detect magic vs that school.
The tattoo only costs 1,000 gp. Also, magical tattoos are their own item slot system that is parallel to regular magical items (ie- you have a head slot for a hat, and a head slot for a tattoo; you can have both at the same time).
the only flaw is that magical tattoos are their own crafting feat (inscribe magical tattoo). So that either means either the party caster has to waste a feat on that (which is a bit questionable- it is cool that they are their own slot system, but are there enough tattoos to justify the feat?), or your GM allows you to look for a varisian mage to do it (and since your GM is the one spamming maxed out enchants... I doubt he will be that kind...).
I will say that the feat also opens up teh animal shaman tattoo (12,000 to get the totemic transformation of one of the druid archetypes like eagle shaman; restricted to the effect at level 5, but that means 5 minutes of flight. If you pick bat you can get blind sense 20 ft as another option.)
Characters that you've slaughtered when you are mind-controlled have zero action economy. Spending one combat round to prevent their own deaths is not so much to ask in the grand scheme. Is it really better in their minds that you spend thousands of gold to prevent something solved with one round worth of actions and 25gp than it is to spend those thousands of gold on equipment that will make you a much better combatant for the many occasions that mind-control is not a concern? Seems to me like a heavy investment into dealing with what should be a fairly uncommon threat.The class is irrelevant; your entire party (except you) can cast Protection From Evil. Scrolls cost 25gp (more if you want it at a higher level) if they don't want to use spell slots.I already stated the party composition earlier in the thread. None of which contains a Cleric.Have your cleric cast protection from evil before any combat with a caster.
OR you can spend ridiculous amounts of gold instead. Your call.
If they aren't willing to burn spells in the midst of combat, then I can't expect them to use scrolls either, even if I pay for them myself, out of my own pockets. (Personal) Action Economy is precious to these guys (as it should be), so expecting them to do something for me that's not out of their way isn't exactly a part of their playstyle.
Even if they could, as I've stated we are rarely given the option to pre-buff since three of our party members are Heavy Armor wearers (which means their Stealth sucks and anything can hear them for miles away), so it's not a reliable tactic.
To be fair, the 25 gold wouldn't do much unless it was cast pre-battle, which is part of why I wouldn't expect them to do it.
Then again, DC 25 saving throws at level 8 make me question whether we're even supposed to fight them. (And the GM gave a heads up that there will be a Round 2.)
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25 cd vs charm is 20 (with +5 be threat for you or ally)
Lvl give you +2 18
Cloak can give +2 16
Feat +2 14
Trait +2 charm or +1 will 13
Wisdom 14 --- 11
Not so hard with low investment
The +1 tatoo 10
+2 3/day clover (3750) 8/20
Its very nice, with another roll if casted PFE later (or inmune before) take a wand
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Bottom line: It's all well and good to try to skip Will saves entirely, but sometimes you're just gonna have to make one, so either prepare for it by improving your Will score (and adding rerolls once they have some chance of helping) or simply accept that your character has a weakness and have your party plan around it.
Bottom line: It's all well and good to try to skip Will saves entirely, but sometimes you're just gonna have to make one, so either prepare for it by improving your Will score (and adding rerolls once they have some chance of helping) or simply accept that your character has a weakness and have your party plan around it.
Making a Save versus Fear effects is a lot easier due to Paladin auras (and if he decides to take the Greater Aura feat, I might not have to whatsoever) and the numerous ways to buff Fear effect saves at much higher bonuses than Charm/Compulsion/Dominate effects. Even so, I'd rather fail a save to have reduced to-hit or be forced to run away than I would a saving throw or I start slaying friendlies.
Enemies who channel negative energy aren't an issue since I'm D10 Hit Dice with 12 Constitution and I'm (usually) in the back line, rarely getting hit. Not to mention, it's much more difficult for Clerics to boost their save DCs in comparison to creatures whose SLAs and other monster abilities key off Charisma, and having a ridiculously high starting stat for it, so I'm much more apt to save against them (haven't had higher than DC 15 for Channel Energy effects).
Other than those two, all we're left with is Charm/Dominate/Hold effects, which are obviously the worst of all the effects I've listed thus far that are typical of Will Saves. And compared to the Channel Energy bad guys, a BBEG magical beast with 30+ Charisma with Spell Focii feats and traits (I'm presuming) throwing a max-level Charm/Dominate spell at me with a DC 25 saving throw is like facing a demigod; your dice better be on their A-game (or rigged, which I don't recommend doing) if you want to have a fighting chance.
**EDIT** Fun fact: I should just get a Nimble Mind Buttressing Kikko instead of a Breastplate, since it gives more of a Max Dex than the Breastplate does, and it still equates the raw AC of a Breastplate; a compromise of armor more to my liking!
Have your cleric cast protection from evil before any combat with a caster.
OR you can spend ridiculous amounts of gold instead. Your call.
I already stated the party composition earlier in the thread. None of which contains a Cleric. (We actually make a joke about this every game session when our Warpriest, Inquisitor, and Paladin never want to cast heal spells or buffs on other characters, saying something along the lines of "Remember when we had Clerics?") Suggesting a class that we don't possess as a means to solve the problem is a strawman. Strawmen don't help unless you're feeding them to horses and other livestock. This campaign is not Farm Simulator 2017. Therefore, the advice is useless.
Actually, your original post only states that there's a wizard in your party. Wizards get Protection from Evil. What's your problem?
Guess who else has Protection from Evil? Your Warpriest and your Paladin.
Get one of your fellow players to cast it on you. It's a team game.
Also, on a personal level, perhaps you need to consider that other posters are spending their time to help you and maybe you should consider that in your tone in responding to posters. It might also be the reason why no one else in your game wants to help your character.
throwing a max-level Charm/Dominate spell at me with a DC 25 saving throw is like facing a demigod
CD 25 its not demigod, advanced succubus do charm monster dc 24 at will and its CR9
You can defeat this cd, and spells can inmume you like PFE or spell immunity if can buy scroll and some one can Umd.
I know it isn't.
I said, compared to the Channel Energy bad guys, it seems like it.
Spell Resistance is easy to get, since there are a multitude of magic items that grant it.
Spell Resistance that scales with your character, against all relevant challenges, on the other hand...
SR 20 is the maximum, capping at an average of level 9, which is not what I mean when I refer to "scaling spell resistance."
SR 20 is the maximum, capping at an average of level 9, which is not what I mean when I refer to "scaling spell resistance."You can keep scaling by spending more money.
There is the Rod of Aborption for 50,000gp
Cube of Force: 62,000gp.
Ring of Spell Storing for 100,000gp.These aren't exactly Spell Resistance anymore, but they are powerful protection against magic.
Anyway, you should be thinking in layers. Sure, you can't pump up your SR as much as you'd like. But Get your SR up to 20. Then get your Saves as high as you can. Get Slippery Mind or some Luck thing that lets you reroll--Alchemal Parasitic Twin--Then get a Glyph or Contingency that kicks in when you finally do fail your save. Layers, dude.
I'm fairly certain that the BBEG is a 10th level spellcaster (explains how they're able to use level 5 spells), not including any CL boosts from feats and such. So, in the miraculous event that I get 38K to spend (which I probably won't be spending on something like this, as that's all of the money I'd have), it's basically a 50% chance to negate that spell effect (well, any spell effect), which goes down as we get more powerful.
Compared to our Wyvaran Warpriest who was granted Greater Spell Resistance (in exchange for other racial options they usually got) that actually matches that amount, as well as bunch of other immunities (paralysis, sleep, and poison come to mind), without having to dump twice his WBL into it. (Not a complaint or jealousy by any means, just stating that his racial traits are much more valuable defensive-wise than most any magical item brought up thus far.)
I've been thinking about this problem for a couple days and I have an option to consider:
A homunculus with a Protection from Evil SLA can cast it once a day, every day. Cost: 4550 for a base homunculus and fifty potions of Prot Evil. Just costs gold, lives in your bag in a familiar case because it is dangerously fragile, speaks telepathically with you, can be instructed "If I get dominated or start thinking/acting otherwise not like myself, sneak out and save me."
I thought of that after considering an improved familiar with a wand, but you want to conserve feats. Also thought about a Sipping Jacket but noticed the "round-based duration only" thing there (and there goes my Enlarge Person sipping jacket tactic I've been doing, alas).
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It sounds to me like the GM is overshooting the mark with his house rules. It also sounds like this has become an arms race, where you finding a new defense is going to result in him amping up the offensive.
Maybe it's more productive to sit down with the GM and ask him about his views, to bring in the open what his expectations are. Discuss the last encounter that got seriously out of hand.
- Ask him how powerful he thinks mind-control should be. How often should a character be able to resist it?
- Ask him what his expected outcome of a PC failing a save against mind control is. If being dominated means you go for the kill, and he wants enemies to have a good shot at dominating the PCs, then what are the consequences?
If his expectations are a game where PCs regularly (nearly) kill each other, what are the consequences for story continuity? Price of raise deads?
- It could be that the GM has ideas about "how you should play the game", like PCs spending more actions on defense (Protection from Evi), while the players don't actually want to play that game.
Or maybe the GM thinks PCs should invest much less in extreme offense and more in defense - that if one PC can easily kill another one in a single round after being dominated, that the PCs have unhealthy builds.
If the GM wants the players to play in a particular way, but the players want something different, that's a problem that needs to be brought out into the open.