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DeathlessOne wrote:
Aside from possibly causing your particular goddess to become quite UNHAPPY with you for disregarding the "sign of her favor" by killing it (or "letting it die") and using its body for purely mechanical benefits... I got nothing to add.

I have to admit, that's a tough thing to sell to Calistria. I could start with my character not deliberately "letting it die",. But a Protector is a Protector and its lifespan is quite short due to the things a protector does. Need to find a way to explain why I don't bring the wasp back to life though. I mean, it does come to life quite a lot during the day, and in different forms as well. Might argue that I add to the power of the wasp familiar by adding more versatility. All for the sake of revenge of course.

avr wrote:
It talks about 'any of the choices available to a wizard' rather than 'any of the choices which you personally might be able to make, Sir Calistrian occultist necromancer'. You might have a familiar and a soulbound puppet separately (I'm not sure that even wasp familiar bans a soulbound puppet); there's no indication that feats affecting the first affect the second also.

Interesting thought. How would that interact with the wasp stats though? If a soulbound puppet does not count as a familiar for the wasp familiar feat restrictions, it cannot count as a familiar for the stat improvement to Imp. Might need to take the feat twice then.

I'll necro my own thread here, because an idea came to my mind that I wannt to discuss (although it might be better in rules questions)

Wasp Familiar

gives you a familiar with the stats of a Greensting Scorpion with a fly speed (effectively a wasp). When you have an ability to gain a familiar (such as arcane bond), its stats change to those of an imp. They still gain "speak with animals of its kind", thus are valid for archetypes, which is the big deal with the Soulbound Puppet ability. Imp has way better stats than the Homunculus we got so far.

The problem is, this feat explicitely states that we cannot have more than one familiar. The wasp is permanent, so adding a soulbound puppet is not possible.

My workaround to this is: Kill your wasp familiar (or let it be killed in combat - Protector archetype comes to mind). Don't resurrect it, so it stays dead. Now when you get the Soulbound Puppet ability, using a wasp doll or skull (do these big wasps have bones? better stick to doll...) should give you a wasp familiar with imp stats for a limited amount of time, to which you can add archetypes as you need to.

Looking forward to you bashing this idea :D

maybe you were thinking about Blinkback Belts?

They help if it's the problem of enchanting several thrown weapons that you want to address (needing Quick Draw obviously).

pad300 wrote:
As a question, given the occultist is a psychic character, can his familiar achieve occult skill unlocks? Also, what counts as a class skill for a familiar?

Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim as class skills.

Various archetypes add more.

Not sure about the occult skill unlocks. If we are allowed to swap feats, you can do it with the Psychic Sensitivity feat. If not, we need at least a familiar that casts spells (such as valet or prankster or emissary). Assuming they use your (occult) caster level and type of magic (psychic spells) , it will do.

Taudis wrote:

I'm fairly certain familiars can only swap out their basic feats for the Familiar specific feats from Animal Archive.

Mindless creatures retroactively gain any feats and skill ranks they lack when they gain an Intelligence score. There is some debate as to if familiars represent an exception to this.

The rules for approximating familiars say otherwise.

Approximating Familiars wrote:
Feats: You can easily exchange a pre-built familiar’s starting feats with different feats that better match your concept, such as the familiar feats. There are also new feats relating to familiars, allowing a great deal of customization and sometimes adding unusual mystical qualities and abilities.

Familiar feats are recommended, but not to the exclusion of other feats. Animals with an Int of 3 or lower (such as Animal Companions) are restricted to a certain list of feats, but familiars (and the Sage in specific) start with a much higher Int. Of course it is subject to GM approval to make it reasonable.

I think a Soulbound Puppet having a Conduit feat is thematically fitting, especially considering that Healer's Hands propably draws its power from the positive energy plane, which is the birthplace of all souls.

Taudis wrote:

Don't Vermin familiars get a feat for gaining an Intelligence score? You could still get the Healer's Hands feat that way.

I did not find anything like that. But as far as I see, every familiar has a 1st level feat that can be replaced by any feat they qualify for at 1st level. So I can get Healer's Hands on a Sage familiar anyway, they just don't heal as much as with Signature Skill (Heal). As soon as you can meet a DC30 Heal check, they heal 2xLvl (the basic treat deadly wounds + ranks in Knowledge Planes), which is not that bad actually, considering at Lvl10 it is 10x20HP of healing for one summon.

Syries wrote:
Dip 2 levels in Eldritch Guardian fighter and give your summoned Mauler familiar all your combat feats as well. You have a permanent familiar that doesn't advance past level 2 but would work as a valet archetype.

I thought there was a rule that you can't have more than 1 familiar total. Not sure how that interacts with temporary familiars though? Nice idea anyway if you are into multiclassing.

Nevermind, I checked it and these evolutions (Shared Evolution, Extra Feat and Shared Slot) are only allowed for the Eidolons of the Twinned Summoner archetype, either as Unchained (being restricted to the Twinned Subtype) or normal (being restricted to the Biped Base Form).

So sadly no shenannigans with multiple feats or giving +8 on any skill to your characters. Makes it a little more balanced though.

Wonderstell wrote:

Did you look this evolution up at PFSRD? I did the same recently, and it seems that PFSRD has missed the most important part of that evolution.

Shared Evolution (ArchivesofNethys) wrote:
Select a 1-point or 2-point evolution the eidolon has. As a standard action, the eidolon can touch the summoner and transfer the selected evolution to him. This functions as the summoner’s aspect ability, and the same limitations apply. The summoner can touch the eidolon as a standard action to return the evolution. The evolution returns to the eidolon automatically if the eidolon is dismissed by the summoner or sent back to its home plane. Requirements: Twinned eidolon.

Shared Evolution, together with Extra Feat, and Shared Slot are all only available to Twinned Eidolons.


I did indeed look it up at d20pfsrd, mainly because I did not find it in Archives of Nethys under normal Eidolon Evolutions. They are however under Unchained Eidolons. Damn.

If that is the case, the Figment loses quite a lot of its versatility. Besides, I have to bury another idea I got - a Sage Figment with "Healer's Hands" and "Signature Skill (Heal)" via Extra Feat, which on Lvl 10 would let me heal 40 HP 10x/day, each as a full round Action.

I'm not quite convinced though, that AON got it right (Shared Evolution as Unchained und thus restricted to Twinned Eidolons which in turn require the Biped Base Form) and PFSRD got it wrong (being a normal Eidolon Evolution and no Base Form Requirement, partly because Twinned Eidolons don't exist for normal Eidolons). Anyone got the original source and can give clarity?

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Hello Folks,

I read into the Occultist Focus Powers and my Attention was drawn by the Soulbound Puppet ability of the Necromancy implement. While it seems mediocre on the first look, I dived into all the possibilities and was amazed at how with one ability, you can essentially fulfill almost every role out of combat and many roles during combat.

The ability says:

Soulbound Puppet (Su)
As a full-round action, you can expend 1 point of mental focus to create a soulbound puppet from a bone, doll, or skull. If you use a bone or a skull, your power builds a Tiny or Small flesh puppet around it that vaguely resembles the original creature from which the bones were taken. If the implement is a doll, the doll comes to life. Treat this as a familiar, using your occultist level as your wizard level to determine its powers and abilities. By using a bone or skull from the appropriate creature or a doll shaped like that creature, you can select any of the familiar choices available to a wizard. You can instead use a humanoid bone, doll, or skull, to give the puppet the base statistics of a homunculus, but without a fly speed or the poison bite or telepathic link abilities. No matter the form, this creature is a construct with an alignment matching your own. You can have no more than one soulbound puppet active at any given time.
The soulbound puppet remains animated for 10 minutes per occultist level you possess.

So we get a familiar. The text says "you can select any of the familiar choices available to a wizard". While it aims at chosing every kind of animal, it also means: every familiar archetype available.

So you spend some Mental Focus (the more, the better) into this one focus power, no more investment necessary, and you can have whatever you need at the moment for 10 minutes per level. This is huge. Compared to a class with fixed familiars, you get:

- a familiar tailored to your current needs for a full round action
- a familiar that disappears anyway, so it can die easily without negative consequences (no money to be paid to raise a new one)
- potentially many different kind of familiars on the same day, maybe even during the same combat
- a different bonus granted to the master as well as a different starting feat every time, so potential use of niche feats that shine in specific situations

Now for the first advantage to comprehend, we need to browse all familiar options. I just started, but some options seem so overpowered I already feel remorse for using them (starting with the least powerful and increasing in overpower):

- the Mauler familiar for a nice critter in melee that can flank, damage and more importantly take damage and die. It's basically a summoned monster.
- the Valet familiar during crafting hours to double your crafting speed. This is tricky though, because it needs to be present all the time (so rather at high levels and you need to spend a lot of points)
- the protector familiar, who since it can die means at later levels: double your hit points and divide damage evenly between the two of you, with the possibility to negate hits (Bodyguard) and direct hits towards the disposable minion (in harm's way), with other words: DR/half with benefits
- the Figment/Sage combination. Need to pass any Knowledge check? Raise a Sage with ranks in the category you need and give it the Skilled Evolution via Figment. That's a +3(class skill)+8(Skilled)+1,5xLvl(Sage)+Int Bonus to the check. Not bad? It gets even better. You can do this with any skill you have no ranks in (without the half level bonus though). Any skill that comes up too seldom to invest in now becomes available. That's not even all. Some skills need to be done by you for various reasons (in my case of a Psychometrist Vigilante the Occult skill unlocks). There's a 1 Point Eidolon Evolution called "Shared Evolution" with which your Figment familiar can give you another Evolution it possesses. So from level 7 it can give you Skilled (+8 bonus) to any one skill you want. Taken into account, that many skills can get another +3 by chosing the right type of animal, we are looking at a +11 untyped/racial bonus to most skills.

- further useful archetypes in specific situations: Animal Exemplar/Ambassador if your group lacks a face/druid, Pilferer or Infiltrator for spying and stealing, Decoy for intrigue like games, Prankster for some fun at parties and Mascot to improve group interaction and teamwork.

To summarize: You can do any skill in the game, you can summon a meat shield and boost your defenses. You can adapt to many different tasks and have enough versatility for almost any encounter.

This is more than any other ability I've seen in this game. Please change my mind.

Okay, you seem to be right with that. Looks like I tried to push the archetype further than possible.

So in the end, tiger is way better damagewise (they get 2d6 bite and 1d8 claw) and Spirit-wise as well. No chance for the Lion. :/

Ok, so in your opinion the magical Beast is off the table.

But there is still a difference between a regular Lion (1d6 bite, 1d4 claws) and a Cave Lion (1d8 bite, 1d8 claws). Both are Great Cats and both are lions, so I'd be stupid to take the normal Lion over a more powerful variant, right?

My question though was more directed towards why it says Beast Shape IV? The Large Animal stat adjustments (which I seem to be stuck with) as well as grab and pounce are from Beast Shape II, while rake is from Beast Shape III. It is a question from a design point of view? Why write BS IV when all you effectively get is BS III?

Hello folks,

I was Looking into the Prowler At World's End Bloodrager archetype and got confused about to what extend I can use the Level 11 ability to apply Beast Shape IV to my rage?

The ability states I can only take the form of a great cat of the kind I channeled via the Spirit ability.

If I channeled the lion, does that mean I am stuck with the CR3 Lion creature? What about the Dire Lion, Cave Lion or the Mythical Lion, as they appear in the Bestiary? I was searching for other lion creatures in order to maximize the damage dice and found the Blood Lion. It qualifies for Beast Shape IV, however it is a magical beast, so I found it rather unlikely to fit into the ability.

On closer inspection I went through all the great Cat animals and found that all abilities they grant are covered with Beast Shape III, so I wondered why it said Beast Shape IV, when in fact you would not get any advantage out of it. Now I'm kind of hoping that the Blood Lion is legitimate.

Any thoughts?

I was genuinely surprised to find such a nice feat I did not know before. And I considered myself an expert on melee feats. Thank you for bringing it up here.

Adding to the discussion: Haste is the first and strongest buff throughout the whole game due to the extra attack it gives. Giving it for the cost of a feat is ridiculous and even with these drawbacks it's very very strong. Round of rage? Ridiculous. No ally in reach? Needs a little bit of tactical thinking, which imo PF combat could use more. The penalty to AC/attacks hurts a little, but rage users have other means for defense and offebse. Of course, someone with rhis feat would not build for a 30ft reach. That's like saying power attack is bad because a wizard cannot use it properly

Not that I'm aware of.

Though the latter seems clear to me by RAW, they continue to move toward you to complete their charge. If they run out of movement, charge is successfully prevented, if not, they'll get their attack, although it seems more reasonable to have the interrupted momentum end the charge.

The former seems more tricky. They can't complete the charge in a direct line, but if you exclude involuntary movement from the requirement, they move (twice) in a direct line towards you and thus can complete the charge.

You caught my imagination with Fantasy based For Honor. That would make a great PVP game, but instead of the iconics I'd like to have the versatility of Pathfinder's character building options with the great combat system of For Honor.

Like completely customized characters with classes defining the base abilities and feats or class feature choices giving additional combat skills.

I know this is propably way too complex to put into one game, but we never now where technology will bring us...

I'm a dedicated supporter of combat maneuver builts over pure dps builts, they are way more fun and often better, especially when there are others who already to dps in the group.

I like both Trip and Bullrush. What has not been mentioned is the defensive aspect of bullrush. You prevent a full attack against you, which is pretty nice and saves you a lot of money on AC items for something that can be utilized very well offensively.

Suggestions for bullrush (as we have more options mentioned for trip):

Hurricane Punch feat for swift action bullrush along with full attacking. Either unarmed or combine with Ascetic Style to do it with all monk weapons (Tri point double edged sword maybe?)

Merciless Rush and Squash Flat (combine bullrush and trip and prevent monster from attacking you at all)

Knockback rage power to include it into a full attack and do some STR damage and Raging Throw feat to make sure the CMB is on the top.

In my opinion Barbarians and Bloodragers are best suited for Combat Maneuvers.

Using called shots with a 15-20 crit two handed weapon, power attack and furious focus?

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Biting Words

Not very strong, but obligatory 1st lvl spell for this theme :)

Hello folks,

I'm currently working on a Psychodermist Occultist and they get this feat for free:

Harvest Parts:

You can attempt a Craft or Heal check, as though making a trophy, to gain usable resources from a creature that has been dead for less than an hour. Only creatures with a CR of 1 or higher yield usable parts. The value of the parts you harvest is equal to the creature’s CR squared × 10 gp (increases to CR derived from class levels or templates do not contribute to this value). This value can be used only as raw materials for crafting alchemical, masterwork, mundane, or magic items. Items crafted using creature parts must be made of a suitable material—typically bone or hide, with metal only in extraordinary cases. No more than a quarter of a crafted item’s cost can be supplied with harvested parts. Harvested parts remain usable for 2 days before they rot (unless used to craft objects or somehow preserved). Creature parts that are harvested in this manner can’t be bought or sold in most settlements.

I always looked at the feat as it is, and it looked fine to me, but when reading further into the mentioned rules for making a trophy, it seemed you can do all this and even more without the requirement of having the feat, in fact the yield you get from Harvest Parts is way less than the yield from ordinary Trophies.

To compare, Trophies and Treasures gives us these options:

Harvesting Trophies
When a monster is defeated in combat, the process of identifying what portions of the creature can serve as a trophy and harvesting the trophy are somewhat abstracted—there’s no need to track the values for each part of every monster in the game once they’re gathered as trophies.
In order to harvest and preserve a trophy from a kill, a character must attempt three checks: one to determine what parts of the creature are worth harvesting for a trophy, one to determine if she successfully harvests the trophy components without damaging or ruining them, and one to turn the components into a permanent trophy.

Identifying Trophies: To identify what portions of a creature have value as trophies, a character must succeed at a Knowledge check determined by the creature type, as normal. The DC for this check is equal to 15 + the creature’s CR. This examination takes 1 minute to perform.

Harvesting Trophy Components: Once a character identifies potential trophies, she must attempt a skill check to harvest the relevant components. This is typically either a Survival check (for external features, such as hide, horns, teeth, or the like) or a Heal check (for internal features, such as blood, internal organs, or sweat). The DC for this check is equal to 15 + the creature’s CR. Harvesting trophy components generally takes 10 minutes of work (at the GM’s discretion, this could be as much as 1 hour of work for creatures whose bodies are particularly difficult to work with).

Creating Trophies: Once trophy components are harvested, they generally remain viable for 24 hours before decay or spoilage ruins them. Application of gentle repose, oil of timelessness, or similar magic can extend this period of decay. In order to turn components harvested from a creature into a long-lasting trophy, a character must attempt a check with an appropriate Craft skill (the exact skill varies according to the nature of the trophy the character is creating, but it is usually one from the following list: alchemy, jewelry, leather, or taxidermy) to preserve the components and turn them into a trophy. The DC of this check is equal to 15 + the creature’s CR.

Selling Trophies
Once a trophy is created, it can be kept or sold. Generally, a trophy can be sold to any merchant for its full value, as if it were an art object, but at the GM’s discretion, certain trophies may require the PC to seek out black markets or specialized merchants to receive the full price. In some societies, selling certain trophies may be illegal or have other ramifications.

To be fair, it seems you need a wider set of skills to finally craft a trophy (Knowledge to identify, Survival or Heal to Harvest and Craft to Create the Trophy, each at a DC of 15+CR), but the listed value of Trophies exceeds the yield you'd get from Harvest Parts on every level sometimes by over x2 (except on CR10, where they match). You can sell Trophies right away, whereas Harvest Parts requires you to use them in your item crafting and even then not more than 1/4 of the item's value.

On top of that, if you read further down the chapter about Trophies and Treasures, you can use Knowledge on specific creature types to gain crafting material with Magical Affinities, increasing their value by another 20%.

I hope someone has read into these mechanics as well and can give me some clarity. How is the Harvest Parts feat intended to interact with these rules and what are its designated benefits? I know it's rather niche material here, but maybe someone has got some more insight into this topic than me.

If you really want it to be this way, the wording of the item can be interpreted that way. Since the wording also allows the commonly used (and intended) way of ruling, your Approach is neither RAW nor RAI, so I'm afraid there's little chance any GM will accept it, unless they want to do you a favor.

Remember, Pathfinder rules are no law Texts, they are not as precise and there are various examples of wordings, that differ from each other. This is due to many people writing content, and some have different writing styles.

You mention the price here several times, and if in doubt, this is the most important argument we have. No item, at least no purchasable item, should be that powerful to essentially give you 5 class levels for nearly all combats. Also look at similar priced items like the Monk's Robe or the Robe of Arcane Heritage, that also add 4-5 levels to a specific class feature. The Bane Baldric is perfectly in line with them, although it is better for characters without Inquisitor Levels. Besides, where would you draw the line where to stop class Features to scale with this level increase? After all, BAB, saves and skill ranks are also class Features of the Inquisitor class, as well as spells. You can't say you'd increase Judgements and leave the rest alone to make it more plausible.

I can understand the difficulty in accepting a ruling, when you have already planned it into a character concept. But this one you'll have to let go.

Feats: Raging Throw, Raging Brutality

Well you have litterally no class ability that boosts CMB (or even to-hit), so I'd say: as nice as it sounds, Dirty Trick won't get you far.

Feinting on the other hand is easily improvable, first of all by Social Grace. I'd personally go that route. It's less feat intensive as well.

TrinitysEnd wrote:
I second the "nah." Just because you've attached a tooth to a sword doesn't make the tooth count as the sword. It's just attached to a sword, still a tooth. Just because you put a skull on your hat, doesn't make it your hat. I can list more and more examples of this. The implement is still the hide wrapped around a sword's hilt. It does not suddenly become the sword. Integrate just means to combine or put something together. But, the ability is just looking for the trophy, not the thing you shoved the trophy on.

Yeah, you got a point there. I thought some more about the subject and think I got a way to make it work. It's true that it would not be enough to attach the trophy to a weapon.

For the requirement of having weapon/shield and Monster Parts work we need to make a weapon and shield completely out of monster parts.

Shield is pretty easy, there are several listed special material out of hide (Hide fulfilling the abjuration requirement).

Weapon might be a bit more difficult, so you need to find a monster that consists of a proper material (some plant creature for wood, some iron golem for metal and so on). The Harvest Parts feat states that in rare circumstances metal is a valid resource you can get out of a monster. So craft a sword from it and there you go.

I did not check the other panoply requirements, but the Trapping of the Warrior panoply would be possible.

Well, of Course the Class promotes melee attacks (and damage) just like most other melee centered classes. There's nothing wrong with full attacking and doing damage, but it leaves you free to decide what you do with Spell Combat. You can either full attack and do even more damage with intensified empowered maximized shocking grasp or you can full attack and debuff with Bestow Curse (having the Hexblade archetype in mind here, but I'm sure there are other examples) or Full attack before boosting defense with Shield/Mirror Image/Displacement.

Magus also Supports combat maneuvers with some arcanas, so you can use the Full Attack + Spell Combat with Maneuvers (I think True Strike with Trip/Disarm on a Whip is discussed as quite viable). No Need to go the shocking grasp route all the time. Remember Arcane Pool boosts accuracy that helps deliver any spell/maneuver, not only damage dealing attacks.

Wait a Minute...

I feel this topic has to be rediscussed.

A trophy can be integrated into another item, such as an ornament or a magic item, but otherwise does not take up a magic item slot, even when worn.

Why would they write this sentence, if trophies alone count as implements?

Just put some hide of the Beast you've just slain on the grip of your weapon or glue the paws of it to your shield and you're fine to use the Trapping of the Warrior Panoply to this archetype.

Key word here (at least from a mathematical point of view) is integrated, meaning the trophy becomes a part of the item, thus qualifying for both the requirement of the archetype and the panoply.

Any thoughts?

Harvest Parts

I think this feats does what you want to do. I know you are looking for a reasonable ruling RP-wise, but if you want to implement a houserule, maybe use the formula that is given in this feat and let them make appropriate checks without the feat.

Have in mind still that most of the material components does not consist of the material, but of the magical ingredients (whatever those are) that give the wondrous item ist power.

Cavall wrote:

I'll go with magus.

There's no class worse for photocopy characters. It isn't a class, it's a single character being reprinted over and over.

This is rather a problem of the popular thinking that dishing out damage is the only successfull way to Play a Pathfinder character than a Problem of the design of the Magus class I think. The mechanics offer many Options for unique builts, using Spell Combat for defensive buffs, Team buffing or debuffing with non-damaging touch spells and leaving feat Slots for something other than metamagic Empower/Maximize/Intensify.

I picked Alchemist on the vote, because of Action economy reasons. The Bomber does not suffer that much from it, but playing a melee Alchemist is a pain in the butt, because you have so many Standard Action buffs (Mutagen, every Extract on the whole list) which never get better and at the beginning of each battle you have to measure if you'd rather get the Mutagen boost or full attack, get hasted or full attack, get enlarged or full attack. Sometimes you spend 2 rounds buffing while the fight is more than half over. Each round you see allies dishing out damage and either have to skip your turn to get on their Level or dish out some inferior damage that puts you at the risk of dying because your defenses suck in vanilla mode as well.

Would be enough to add some feats or discoveries that reduce Action requirement, even add some taxes, but at the moment it is just impossible to do anything about it.

Wonder what you guys that picked Greater Invisibility with a 1 round/lvl Duration over Invisibility with 1 min/lvl Duration are up to, considering the only Advantage you got is being able to attack someone without becoming visible :)

0 Mage Hand
1 Unseen Servant
2 Tears to Wine (actually don't need to go any further, but for completion's sake...)
3 Conjure Carriage (assuming it translates to nice cars instead of horse and carriage)
4 Overland Flight
5 Mage's Private Sanctum
6 Heroe's Feast
7 Resurrection
8 True Prognostication
9 Interplanetary Teleport

Recently looked into Psychic Sensitivity respectively Occult Skill Unlocks.

Decent stuff for one feat, if you want to play a high level Gypsy style character (some of those DCs are awefully high). I like it especially on a Psychometrist Vigilante that usually does not cast, but can pump their skills up nicely with Social Grace and thus gains a lot of Utility.

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I'm totally with RedDarius here from a GM perspective. I'm not saying the players should lose every second fight, but I think a campaign where no one is afraid is boring.

It leads to metagaming, knowing that the GM makes only balanced encounters and makes sure everyone survives. Players don't prepare for combat, they don't use their wide array of skills and abilities and head into every dungeon without risk of failure. Furthermore, they just battle every antagonist, even if they are intended to be the final boss of the campaign and not some random encounter.

I made the mistake to make an important villain too weak, they knocked him over and were like "no one messes with us, we are the best". Next session I had them be defeated and arrested by the local authority. Some found it very hard to cope with, but other players later told me they really liked that experience to feel that there are superior forces somewhere.

Yes, stuff like sneezing powder only works in low levels. I'd look for things that has no save or has still a decent effect on a successfull save.

No need for a craft check, you simply put the powder on the arrow as a swift action. It's as easy as it sounds.

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I guess its main function is that of a backup weapon. When you run out of bombs you have to switch to some kind of weapon and at Lvl 9 it is already a swift action and thus does not interfere with your action economy. Another tactical option might be the "Explosive Missile" discovery, where you can add a bomb and an alchemical weapon to your bolts/arrows. Main advantage here is superior reach, but you hit AC instead of touch AC, so it's rather weak.

As to other alchemical weapons than acid, just browse the list for useful stuff. I think there are some useful circumstantial things, that deafen/sicken or trip opponents. Just be sure to craft in every free minute and have some items for every occasion.

Not sure if it's legal, but poisons and drugs are some nasty things to add, drugs espcially because there is no save for the Con/Wis Damage.

The feat Master Alchemist helps a lot with this archetype

I like both concepts. As to build advice:

First one sounds like a melee/healer build. Vivisectionist/beastmorph goes good with master chymist (10 levels for pounce). Alternatively Wasteland Blighter/Chirurgeon. Discoveries are of course Feral Mutagen and maybe Spontaneous Healing/Healing Touch. Note that this is nonmagical healing (maybe the only source except Heal skill and rest?), my alchemist was the hero in a campaign where magic vanished in most of the world.

The second is also thematic, I'd definitely go with "Roll with it" and the usual bomb discoveries. Breath weapon bomb could be an alternative bomb-saving concept for a melee-er bomb build, which is compatible with being staggered from Roll with it.

If you need additional inspiration (I built both a human and a goblin alchemist as well):

The Goblin could be a great cook, mine was even very fat (can roll better) and I planned to create a Formula Book as a word document which also served as a cooking recipe collection where I'd invent some nasty Goblin meals.

The human alchemist was the son of an animal doctor. Thus I explained the beastmorph archetype, experimenting to mix human intellect and bestial strength for the greater good (resulting in a lion form mutagen). He became a Professor and his formulae book was a scientific study about anatomy of animals and magical beasts and alchemy. You see I like my formulae books versatile.

tonyz wrote:

For just rules questions and the like -- this is a good chance to get the rules lawyer in your group involved and helpful instead of hindering!

Sadly I am the only rules lawyer, so with the rules question there is no one who could help me out. It's rather the storytelling that another player is great at. I believe we might even be on the same wave, but I can see the dangers of going in different directions or talking at the same time leading to confusion.

I think tag teaming sounds promising though, because sometimes I need my GM time to look something up or think some changes (usually due to unpredictable PC behavior) through, imagining how to change the campaign or react in a coherent way.

Hello folks,

I am GMing a group of 5 people in a homebrew campaign. We were friends before Pathfinder and not everyone is a dedicated PF geek as I am, so there is always the danger of small talk interrupting the sessions.

The others are less experienced, so during play lots of rules/character build questions are directed towards me. Besides, the campaign is rather complex, so I have to do a lot of talk. I'm doing my best to answer quickly, but often some players are left with nothing to do but waiting for other isszes to be solved.

Luckily, we have 1 or 2 players who would GM as well, so I was wondering if I could take one of them as a second GM. I don't want to split the table though, so it must be 2 GMs working simoultaneously. The advantage, I could do the rule questions why the other carries on with the plot, or in the case of splitting the party on some occasions being able to act out two scenes at the same time.

Now there are a lot of potential issues, so I'd like to ask if anyone had any experience and can tell if it works or why not?

Dirty Fighting

A little more redundant because you get Combat Expertise, but it replaces Improved Unarmed Strike as prerequesite and is actually helpful for most combat maneuvers, as long as you find someone to flank with

Alchemist is a class that can stack lots of Archetypes together, and I personally would never go without one.

Things I already built:

Vivisectionist/Beastmorph into Master Chymist. I was strong enough with my natural attacks so I did not even opt for sneak attack. Sometimes I was like "Oh, I just did 100 damage but forgot to include sneak attack to every attack".

Chirurgeon/Wasteland Blighter/Sacrament Alchemist to fulfill the Healing Role, combined with the usual Bomb discoveries on a Goblin.

I am currently working on an idea that includes Construct Building, so I'd like to add to the question and ask what archetypes is best suited for a Construct companion build? I think there is Tinkerer, Promethean Alchemist and Construct Rider.

I theorycrafted a Promethean Alchemist combined with Preservationist for a "stay out of combat"-type character that lets his summons and the Homunculus fight for him.

lemeres wrote:

I kind of like fox just because it ends up... normal.

A giant, medium sized fox just looks like a weird colored wolf/big dog.

Compare that to the giant scorpions, crabs, etc. that a lot of creatures turn into.

In that case a Wallaby end up normal too - as a kangaroo. Also nice Str score.

(Avenger) Vigilante can pump the damage up pretty well and is suited as a face.

Eldritch Scion Magus is also cha dependent, I'd go with Arcane Bloodline and the Moonlight Stalker master feat chain or Destined Bloodline with Fate's Favored.

Anything that gives scaling damage dice like warpriest or someone with access to advanced weapon training (Focus Weapon) gets a lot out of starknives.

Red Panda is pretty strong I think.
And it's fluffy.

Oh I forgot some nice Thing:

Divine Fighting Technique (Sarenrae) is one nice way of healing. You'd Need Great Fortitude and 10 ranks in Heal though, but when you deal nonlethal damage you heal 2d6 every round. As a frontliner without class inherent ways of healing These might as well be extra Hit Points like from Toughness.

Since you probably move 10ft. every round you could go Dodge -> Wind Stance so you get 20% concealment against ranged attacks every round, but it's not incredibly good.

I'd probably go Improved Disarm and Greater Disarm, since you already have a high hit bonus. Maybe consider the Dueling Property for your scimitar. Alternatively trip, since it applies to more types of opponents.

Another nice single feat is Difficult Swings. It synergises well with your reach and prevents your foes from full attacking now and then.

There are some powerful options that require Power Attack though (Cut from the Air and Dazing Assault for example). Sadly you don't qualify with ST10.

Speaking of it, Piranha Strike would improve your damage output quite a lot.

Well all three Things you mentioned are Things I use in almost every round I Play.

Combat Maneuvers are not very appreciated, though I wonder why. They are for martials what debuff builds are for casters. You don't see every pathfinder caster be a blaster for the same reason not every melee should go for dps only - because it's boring as hell.
Though I agree that the core maneuvers, especially trip, bullrush, disarm, grapple are the useful ones. From the new ones I think only Dirty Trick can match them with the right build.

Hero Points are nice to save your life. They saved mine for a few times already.

Traits, I second Mark Hoovers point. They make a great possibility to build your backstory around them. I usually pick the best mechanical wise and then see what it suggests. Often, they fill several years of Background that I build around one trait.

it seems that nothing interacts with shield slam.
Although I don't like that ruling, the free bullrush just copies your attack roll with the shield bash, so no Improved/Greater Bullrush etc. and no Paldrons as well.

Injection Spear is neat. Longspear without reach, but contains up to 5 doses of liquid that is delivered with each successfull attack. As liquid is pretty much everything you can imagine, you can do funny stuff with it, from poisoning Groups of enemies to drugging them with no save ability damage and I guess also buffing allies with potions/extracts for a Little bit of damage?

I'm not familiar with pfs, but a quick Google said it is listed as pfs legal.

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from a mini-guide I started to work on (about bullrushes, because that's a really nice maneuver). The most awesome Things are done with feats though (Merciless Rush and Squash Flat!) Some items Keep those feats in mind, so feel free to ignore These parts.

Gauntlets of the skilled maneuvers – the item with the best cost/use-efficiency considering bullrush. 2000 for a +1, it won’t get cheaper.

Belt of giant strength – you need ST for CMB, you need ST for damage and you need ST for hitting. This is a must-have, if you want to do damage with your char. If you try to focus solely on the bullrush itself, consider one of the alternative belts (see below).

Pauldron of the bull – one of the best stuff ingame. You get two rolls and take the better result. For a non-mathematican it’s not that easy to compare to e.g. the pelt of the beast, which occupies the same slot and grants a +2 to bullrush, so I checked the numbers: The average roll with the pauldron is a 13,85 (10,5 without), so it improves your average roll by 3,35. Another advantage is: Your automatical fail chance (rolling a 1) decreases from 5% to 0,25%. Of course, you miss a possible +2 to your maximum result, but you won’t experience dice bad luck as often as you do now.

Boots of the vengeful behir – 3/day bullrush opponent one size category larger (2 size categories against dragons). Not something you need in the first levels. Buy it once you reach the two-digits, it should not bother your purse.

Dusty rose prism + wayfinder – the second most effective item in cost/use-comparison, but the wayfinder with its resonant power is obligatory. A +2 to CMB and CMD that benefits all maneuvers. Nice to use with squash flat, where you also need to improve your trip CMB.

Thorny ioun stone (crimson) – for roughly 3k more than the version above, you get a +2 to bull rush attempts, but don’t need a wayfinder. If by some reasons you don’t get access to resonant powers of a wayfinder, consider this. Besides, in late game, you might want an ebon wayfinder for 18k which let’s you use both ioun stones at the same time.

Amulet of mighty fists – if you are collecting natural attacks for damaging aside from your bull rush, this is the way to go. Don’t take simple +1 enhancements, go for the special abilities. Brawling let’s you add the enhancement bonus to Combat maneuvers. If you play a barbarian/bloodrager, consider to add Furious, which results in a +4 bonus to your meneuvers while raging for the price of a +2 amulet.

Impact weapon – even if you are not relying on weapons, consider wearing one and enchanting it with the impact ability. It’s a +2 enchantment, so you need to pay a +3 in total, but you get the enhancement bonus to your bull rush cmb. The best choice would be a reach weapon with a high damage die, since it gets increased by one category.

Belt of thunderous charging – this is an alternative to the belt of giant strength. It’s +2 to ST and +2 to bull rush on a charge. On charges, you’d have the same benefit for 10k as with a belt of giant strength for 36k. Although charging is a good option for bull rush, often we can’t do it (difficult terrain, stuck in melee, trees in the way…). Additionally, we lose the possibility to upgrade our strength further. Less damage with merciless rush, less bonus to weapons or natural attacks.


In case you want a Brief summary of the useful feats besides Improved/Greater/Quick and Bullrush strike:

Merciless Rush - does STR-Mod. as damage with bullrush, Need to worhsip Rovagug though

Squash Flat - second feat in the chain, but let's you sacrifice one 5ft. increment for a Swift trip. Totally debuff, if you force an Opponent to stand up AND move towards you (so no attacks basically)

Tribal Scars/Breaker of Barriers - each +2CMB to bullrush plus some neat side effects

Spiked Destroyer - Swift attack with armor Spikes when bullrushing

Rhino Charge - don't know if it's legal that way, but I read it as being able to Charge around Corners by readying charges (a Standard Action - move into Position before, then trigger bullrush by something trivial like enemy on sight)

Lingramel is my (male) golden Dragon homie

No idea where I got that name from though


There is one Teamwork feat that I have seen paying off in a non Cavalier/Inquisitor build:

Target of Opportunity

You only Need two archers/ranged attackers, then it's basically one extra attack per round for both.

Why not Desna's shooting star, quick draw and blinkback belt?

No need for physical stat belt, pretty SAD with the right class. Oracle can then get CHA to attack, damage, casting, possibly also AC and Reflex saving throws.

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