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* Pathfinder Society GM. 1,451 posts (1,728 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 16 Organized Play characters. 6 aliases.


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roll4initiative wrote:

I have many, and I mean many options. Will see what the party needs for support.

Maybe we could all do something crazy like an all rogue/bard party. Or all spellcasters. All red-heads.

I'm not seeing many commonalities between Kahwen and Trokkus, never mind whoever the rest of the PCs end up being. "Has a sword" isn't a really strong theme.


Yes, Lichaam just boosted a 25gp scroll high enough to break SR 31. Faerie Fire does not allow a save, just SR, and it specifically works against Blur.

How much did the Plane of Fire do against the enemy party this turn?
EDIT: Not enough, apparently, but something.


GM Nowruz wrote:
I just realized that I have not used the blur effect that Vector is under so I will reflect that from now onwards.

The big guy is currently blurred? Lichaam has a fix for that.

GM Nowruz wrote:

Kyron, 36/40, stoneskin 10/150

Daathiel, 35/40, stoneskin 20/150

Daathiel took his turn here - he activated a wand.


I have a few possibilities, and can bring any based on APL and party composition. I may need to update some online character sheets.

1) Onjatan Slagson - Level 8 melee that can also do ranged. Not great at skills or talking. Has a shy familiar that's better at skills. Likes: Rock, Araga. Dislikes: Pathfinders that don't follow the Venture-Captains instructions.
2) Granny Cheechatkae - Level 9 with skills and casting. Very at (most) talking, pretty good at knowledges and trapspringing, decent nanny for the young'uns.
3) Athelstan Terrel - Level 11 warrior of Aroden. Shiny armor, holy sword, horse, etc. Good at talking and knowing which side of the holy symbol faces up.
4) Dorei Shiorshta - Level 11 melee with pet. Humble slave of Master. Strong believer in the pecking order. Has a list of things he's bitten in combat or otherwise eaten.


Daathiel wrote:

Given Daathiel being inspired by The Doctor, I wish that I could be engaging in arguments with Vector about us being temporal anomalies... but it just doesn't seem to fit with this mission.

I have been in scenarios with time travel where such Inevitable interference would make sense. Here, unless there's something I missed, we're not affecting causality in any way.

I get that Vector is a cool mythic foe with a host of interesting abilities - I just don't get thematically why he is here as we aren't doing any "timey-wimey" stuff. It's still a cool scenario, I just feel like there's something I am not getting about all of this.

I think he's talking about future events. Not that we're changing our own past, but that we're changing the future. Note that he's talking about probable causality.

Translated, his initial speech would just be something like "You did something nobody anywhere predicted, and we can't tell what's likely to happen next. We're going to undo what you did and wipe your name from the records for the good of the universe."

His second speech would be "You don't understand how the game of planes works, and you're upsetting everyone's plans. Die now."

Daathiel wrote:
Anyway, Daathiel is pretty much a non-combatant in most parties, but once did help slay a dragon by drawing his dagger and giving the rogue a flank (kind of showing a flaw in the flanking rules - the dragon should have been able to say "No, I completely ignore the bard and focus on the rogue.")

"Excuse me? No, you do NOT get to ignore me sir!"

Meanwhile, Lichaam failed to CdG a paralyzed cultist twice in a row. Someone else eventually came along and nonlethaled them down.


Caduceus Via wrote:
Kyron wrote:
Did Caduceus' SR rolls include the +4 for Elemental Might?

Drat! No, I forgot those.

So, overcomes SR 21 and 20 respectively. Still might not be enough.

The first monster knowledge block says the smaller guys have SR 19, so that would pass. However, since they're both incorporeal.. I'm not sure whether 1dmg gets rounded up or down when halved.


Made the map icon for Isah slightly transparent, since he's not currently present but we need to remember where he WILL be when he comes back.

Kyron the Evoker wrote:
I'm loving how determined the axiomites are to 'redact' Kyron!

They are quite persistent, aren't they? At least you've got the saves to tell them no.


Updating map with an estimated height for Lichaam, since we don't know how steep the stairs are. I'm using the nice round number of "ten feet" between levels vertically, which would give about a 35 degree angle on the stairs... a little shallow, but probably a good idea if they were hauling heavy things to and from the forge.

That would make Lichaam's feet 40' away from the lowest-level ground.

That likely means he's 20' up from the two Axiomites (unless the ceiling is lower), and closer than Kyron. We know Red has at least 20' of teleportation left, so he could easily get up to Lichaam, but Orange has 5' less. So, let's see if they teleport or move on their turn, and who they go after... could be an interesting "tell" for their equivalent Oracle level (and thus when Resilient Sphere becomes an option.)


But check the monster knowledge block. "A creature that successfully saves against an aevarut’s erasure ability cannot be affected by the same aevarut’s erasure for 24 hours."

We just need to make it work one time each.


GM Nowruz wrote:
Can we just put little boxes next to the figures to indicate elevation. All opponents are 20 ft up.

20 feet up from which bit of ground? There are three levels just in this main section (forge, landing, and ground levels.) How much does the elevation change between those levels? There's enough horizontal distance being covered that the vertical distance factors into spell ranges, and figuring out how to draw lines that hit multiple opponents can be helpful.


Kyron the Evoker wrote:
This time the acidballs are heightened dazing cluster-bomb acidballs (Reflex DC29 to take half damage and avoid the 3 round daze). As 'The grid intersection of all blasts must be within 30 feet of each other' for cluster-bomb fireballs, I beleve I wouldn't be able to target Vector with any of them (as I think that means all of the balls need to be contained within 30 foot of each other). So on that basis they will all have to target the axiomites.

I think that's just talking about the grid intersections you target when using area effects. If that's the case, I think you could catch the axiomites and Vector in the same spell.


Could we please get some heights and altitudes for the room and enemies? It'll probably matter most for Daathiel's performance and Fendahl's positioning.

Lichaam's at 20' above the forge-level floor, but I don't know how far up that is from the floor he's currently over. I also don't know how high these ceilings are.


Daathiel wrote:
shaventalz wrote:
GM Nowruz wrote:
The paladin's prayer can bolster the luck surrounding the Pathfinders but fails to affect the enemies. But he can heal his companions' wounds.
Kyron's monster knowledge check says Vector should have SR31. Caduceus' original roll omitted Elemental Might; his actual number is 33. Shouldn't that have affected Vector?
I believe Inevitables are immune to mind-affecting effects, which Prayer is.

Huh. So they are.

Freaky superpowered cyborg outsiders...


GM Nowruz wrote:
The paladin's prayer can bolster the luck surrounding the Pathfinders but fails to affect the enemies. But he can heal his companions' wounds.

Kyron's monster knowledge check says Vector should have SR31. Caduceus' original roll omitted Elemental Might; his actual number is 33. Shouldn't that have affected Vector?

GM Nowruz wrote:

Fendahl, I think you cannot share your space given your size so I moved Rajah.

Everyone's relative elevation is still unclear, but we know Vector is currently higher up on a wall. Fendahl said that he and Rajah were probably hovering one over the top of the other, since both flight and air walk are in play.


With Elemental Might, those caster level checks vs. SR should be +4 higher. I think that might matter for Vector.


As a fellow player, I don't feel all that comfortable botting Caduceus. Personally, I'd rather that be done by the GM.

Plus I already got the genie, and grabbing Caduceus too feels greedy.


Fendahl Silvermane wrote:
Prayer would be good. I was not sure how well it stacked. Let’s do that :)

+1 luck bonus everything except SR for us, and -1 to the same for the enemies. No save for them, but it does need to get through their SR. It looks like he'd be rolling at +14 (his sheet says oracle CL is 10, plus four elemental might.)


Fendahl Silvermane wrote:
without being able to smite, he is unlikely to get much damage past the DR. Spamming sound bursts or aid others? He is excellent at healing but not needing much now. Delay?

Trying to aid on attacks would require him to be up next to the enemies himself, and his Fly skill is understandably lacking.

I just remembered that back here he said he was planning to drop Prayer this round. So do that? To get everyone, he'd need to take the +speed power from Blessing of Fervor and move to roughly the area I indicated on the map (still not sure about relative altitudes, so may not be possible to get EVERYONE without flying.)


GM Nowruz wrote:
Yes, just waiting for Caduceus! Does anybody want to bot him?

We could just put him on delay, and move him to the Kyron/Daathiel block.


GM Nowruz wrote:
Caduceus: Yes, Vector has DR 10/chaotic and epic; Epic DR is overcome by a weapon who's total enhancement value is +6 (incl. e.g. keen or flaming).

Checking Lichaam's equipment again... I think I could actually make this happen if we REALLY needed to.

Fendahl is using a +3 Keen weapon, right? Spirit-Bound Blade (which Lichaam has a scroll of) adds Ghost Touch and one other property. That would give his katana a total equivalent bonus of +6.

Not sure if we think that matters enough to try, and I'm a bit hesitant to use up another 700gp worth of consumables (spent a little more than that already this scenario, and want to save up.)


GM Nowruz wrote:
I think that there is no difference between the quality and subtype? But I might be mistaken. :-)

The subtype gives the quality and ALSO gives the crit immunity.

Subtype link

Subtype wrote:
An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage ... In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality.

*****

I'm not sure why Paizo did it like that. The subtype in 3.5 didn't say anything about crits (though that might be because undead were immune anyway).

EDIT: In fact, it looks like the Pathfinder incorporeal quality is a copy/paste of the 3.5 incorporeal subtype (3.5 link) Which means the crit protection was something they sort of slid in there, between the creature and the existing rules. Maybe they added the extra layer to keep legacy ghosts protected from critical hits, but didn't want the PCs to get access to that same protection.


Quick note: the Incorporeal subtype is the one that gives immunity to critical hits and sneak attack. However, the monster knowledge for the axiomites said they get the Incorporeal quality rather than the subtype. So Fendahl's katana crits should still work... somehow.


How far have the axiomites teleported so far? It looks like 45'-50' this last time, but how far before that? Since they're limited to 10' of teleportation per level per day, they might be running low and worth using Resilient Sphere on. We know they're at least 11th level, since they used Erase from Time twice each.

EDIT: Checking history, it looks like 50' last round. The round before it was 45' for orange and 40' for red. So they've each got at least 15'-20' left.

Lichaam doesn't like the following idea for a couple of reasons, but it's worth mentioning that Lichaam has battering blast prepared. At his level, that would be two touch spells. If they both hit, it would be roll-twice on Bull Rush at a +33 bonus. That might be enough to affect Vector. If Kyron were to lure him to the edge of the lava lake...

Fendahl Silvermane wrote:
Oh, and what is the teal outline around vector? Not a barrier I hope.

I suspect that's the radius of Lichaam's conjuration foil. It didn't affect any of the enemies, but it will persist until the beginning of the axiomite's next turn. So... don't teleport into the area this turn, okay?


Kyron the Evoker wrote:

His Scorching Ray + Quickened Scorching Ray combo could be useful against Vector now that Vector doesn’t have Fire Resistance. Although I assume his action this round would be to grant Fendahl the final wish for Giant Form II.

He also has reach, so we probably want him one square back from Vector.

Yeah, I saw that Quickened ray too.

However, his positioning is probably right-ish. Telekinetic Charge allows the free attack "if your ally lands adjacent to an opponent".


Efreeti statblock - note that he does have flight, so he can handle whatever elevation Vector is at here.


Fendahl Silvermane wrote:
We could try the giant form. Fast dismount is possible but not certain .

It's up to you. I'm just giving numbers and possibilities.

Fendahl Silvermane wrote:

One question is what happens to gear (weapons, items, haversack)? Do they grow or become part of the new form? Having a huge weapon against the DR is better than a couple fists.

Rajah would fight on her own…having her larger and grappling is helpful but may not work against vector.

The rules for the Polymorph subschool are over here, but Kyron is right. For Giant Form, you keep your equipment and it resizes.


Just leaving a note in the gameplay thread, since turn-interrupting immediate actions are a bit more awkward in PbP.


Fendahl Silvermane wrote:

Fendahl would have to dismount Rajah if he gets larger.

Currently Rajaj is airwalking …

Lichaam threw mass fly on everyone back here.

If you move at least half your speed during a turn, you don't need to make a Fly check. That would be minimum 20' or 30', depending on your armor.

Trying to fight while in midair, you'd probably need to make skill checks. For a Large creature under the effects of Giant Form, it would give a total skill bonus of +7 on top of whatever you've already got (and any other buffs, like good hope.) Huge would be a bonus of +5. Barely-move-then-attack is DC10, while hover-and-(full)-attack is DC15. Don't know how you feel about your chances with those numbers.

Giant Form II does allow Huge forms, like the aforementioned Athach or Jotund Troll. That would let you hit anything within 30' of the ground. So fast dismount and fly towards the ground and battle, then get big and slash once? Then keep swinging from the ground?


Kyron the Evoker wrote:
...while the Athach gets a bite attack, throws rocks, has dark vision and a 50 foot move speed...

Note that Lichaam put Communal Darkvision up, so the vision is less of a concern.

Also, if Fendahl is 2-handing an expensive katana, the slam and claw attacks probably don't matter. I'd say go with something that has a bite or gore (for a secondary attack), or regeneration. As you pointed out, the Troll gets both. And if Fendahl needs to fly to reach most of the enemies anyway...


Daathiel wrote:
I really don't like the alchemical power component rules so I don't use them on any of my characters. Nor do I use clear ear, etc... basically just antiplague and antitoxin.

OK. Just wanted to point it out if you were unaware.

I can see some reasons why you might reject them, too. They're not even balanced between items in the same book (cold iron vs myrrh - only difference is price). Can't say there aren't bits of the rules that I refuse to take advantage of myself.


Does Daathiel expects to use Dispel Magic in most or every adventure? If so, and if you have access to material from the book "Alchemy Manual", I'd suggest looking at Myrrh. It's an optional material component for spells of the abjuration school. 2gp gives "+1 caster level for the purpose of caster level checks and dispel checks".

Full list is here.

Lichaam actually has a couple of uses of the stuff in his component pouch, but I don't think we can really transfer that stuff in combat - too many wasted actions.


...I have MUCH more anti-incorporeal than I remembered.

Lichaam has a scroll of Force Sword that he can enhance, AND one of Spirit-Bound Blade. And the expensive focus for Mage's Sword. And a baby wand of Magic Missile.

He also prepared Battering Blast, two Magic Missiles, and two Resilient Spheres (one bouncing). Those were more for broad damage and crowd control if Kyron's elementballs weren't cutting it, though.


GM Nowruz wrote:
Yes, but he starts with 17 each day. No idea what he did with the others but the combat starts with 6. ;-)

...whuh? OK then.

I'm just going to set the mythic rules down right here and back away slowly.

EDIT: The monster knowledge post says 7/day, and if the Sorrina bit is scripted to happen, it would make sense that the combat starts with 6 points.


GM Nowruz wrote:


Immediate action to reroll with 1 mythic power 3/6 used; Reflex Vector

I think he's used 4 mythic points out of 7 now.

One for the reroll
One for Slipstream (since he attacked afterwards, this wasn't his standard-action Greater Teleport)
One for Amazing Initiative
According to the monster knowledge, the fake Sorrina cost a mythic point.


Remember that Lichaam is quite a ways up in the air, so if someone needs through (air walk charge?) I'm probably not in your way.

Vector seems to be burning his mythic points pretty freely, which is probably good for us.

As far as Kyron goes... either he's too high in the air for Vector to hit, or he can (probably) now get all three enemies within a 10' radius.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Freudenfreude is the opposite of Schadenfreude.

Opposite as in "extreme empathy", or opposite as in "joy at your own misfortune"?


GM Nowruz wrote:

I really am not rules expert but here my two cents:

These incorporeal creatures are corporeal to each other I would say and force effects can push them into each other.

But they cannot fall prone in the air.

And you can use the same "CMB" roll for your spell similiar to a normal bull rush to see if the second is also pushed?

Close enough to what I was thinking.

I'm not sure if it's actually going to come up, but figured I should ask early just in case.


So, here's a very specific question:

Lichaam has Battering Blast memorized. It's a force effect that deals damage, performs a bull rush attempt, and potentially knocks the target prone.

The Bull Rush maneuver says if you bull rush one creature into another, you make a second check to see if you manage to push the second creature.

So... what happens if he bull rushes a flying incorporeal creature into another flying incorporeal creature? Are they corporeal-ish to each other? Do they both get squeezed into the same space, and the force effect moves both? Can they be prone-and-flying? And the spell has special way to roll the bull rush attempt and its bonus, so how does that work with the second bull rush if that axiomite didn't actually get targeted by the spell directly?


Caduceus Via wrote:
Caduceus has Align Weapon. It's a Second Level spell, so I have plenty more castings.

Great, thanks. That means Lichaam can use his arcane bond in the fight, rather than saving it for post-battle cleanup.


Does anyone else have a way to break Vector's regeneration? I've got Lichaam's arcane bond still, and I've got a scroll of communal align weapon. However, I'd prefer not needing to spend a 3rd level scroll on Nine of Twenty, tertiary adjunct of Axis district (0,1)


I'm going to try trading turns with Vector. SLAs have no somatic or verbal components, so he can probably still use Freedom of Movement while paralyzed. However, it would lower his AC for Caduceus, Fendahl, and Rajah, plus require him to use his standard action next turn to break free rather than attack. And if Rajah's grab connected, grappled does (attempt to) restrict SLAs, so there might be some side benefits.

There are stairs on the map. Is the forge (D8) higher or lower than D2?

Also, don't forget that Elemental Might applies to attacks and AC - I think that also got missed in Fendahl's attacks.


Fendahl Silvermane wrote:

I had added haste but then saw we were slowed. So removed from all the attack rolls, but missed it in the OOC comment.

Also, I think that confirmation roll was made using the iterative bonus rather than the full bonus.


GM Nowruz wrote:
shaventalz wrote:
Those don't seem to be powers we've identified as belonging to Axiomites. Can we tell what they just did? Was that movement a spell, or some kind of non-racial ability?
They are high level time oracles! ;-)

Ergh. Makes sense for the kind of aides Vector would have on hand, though.

The oracle movement isn't 1/d or anything, and Vector has at-will Greater Teleport, so Resilient Sphere isn't going to help that much. Shame. I'd hoped that would be useful with our somewhat-lacking front line.

Those levels also put their Will save into "try targeting something else" territory.

As far as we can tell, the Axiomites do NOT have Freedom of Movement up? Just Haste and True Seeing? I'm wondering about arcane bond for Grasping Hand - a grappling force effect seems like a decent counter to incorporeal medium-sized casters.
EDIT: But it looks like grappling calls out spells and SLAs, not (Su) abilities. Which the Time Oracle's teleportation is. So maybe not that either.


Those don't seem to be powers we've identified as belonging to Axiomites. Can we tell what they just did? Was that movement a spell, or some kind of non-racial ability?


Yanndu wrote:

The big red guy's on our side? ok thanks!

Checking the slide history says we found the big red guy in D3 and he followed us here, so that's either Isah or the ugliest dog you've ever seen.


Yanndu wrote:
Q: the initiative counter has 3 bad guys but I see 4 on the map... is one of those monsters controlled by the party? thx

Are you talking about Isah, the allied genie?


GM Nowruz wrote:
Vector and also the axiomites are hasted.

That's also the name of their band.


GM Nowruz wrote:

Identify a spell effect that is in place is kn arcana DC 20 + spell level.

I think you are automatically making that.

So he had planar adaption, true seeing and freedom of movement ... they are now dispelled.

Yes, even with the school-based penalty from being a specialist wizard, with the current buffs he can identify 9th-level spell effects of any school. I wasn't sure if Haste could be distinguished like that, or if it just looks like they have a higher BAB or the like.

Just wanted to make sure Lichaam knew Haste was in play, to (potentially) knock that out with a scroll. Not sure if it'd be worth it, though, since all of the enemies have that as an SLA with plenty of uses.


Everyone, remember that Mass Fly is up (with a total bonus of +10, including from the maneuverability.)

Knowledge (Arcana) is used to identify spell effects that are already in place. I assume Haste is "obvious" enough for that?


Daathiel wrote:

Herald Caller cleric is PFS legal and can apply the Entropic template.

Otherwise, no.
See James Jacobs' answer

I think your best best would be to summon things like Azatas. Their weapons are treated as Chaotic for overcoming DR because they have the Chaotic subtype. Bralani are pretty good. Lillends's bardic performance stacks with Daathiel's performance.

Thanks.

I know at one point I saw (or was told of?) a rule that forum posts weren't legal for PFS, with a specific emphasis on "former directors". I've not been able to find it the last couple times I looked, though.

And I'm not sure +13 to hit counts as "good" for a melee type at this level, even if you get 1d4+1 of them.

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