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Organized Play Member. 6,598 posts (6,602 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 7 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.


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I like the idea of dipping 3 levels in Bard with the Flame Dancer Archetype. Then get yourself an Eversmoking Bottle. The smoke from an Eversmoking Bottle "completely obscures vision." Everyone is Blind. But Flame Dancers' Bardic Performance gives you and your allies the ability to see through the smoke. So now, with your gun, you are making Ranged Touch Attacks vs. Flatfooted AC! What's next? I'd say Sneak Attack Damage...

Gun Chemists can't use Explosive Missile: They don't get Bombs. They sort of get Explosive Missile at level 1 through their Alchemal Ordinance Class Ability.

You can save up your money and buy an Advance Firearm or Alchemal Cartridges. Either would allow you to reload faster.

If your campaign won't allow for either of those, yo might be better off as a Grenadier Alchemist. I was thinking it would be cool to be a Goblin Grenadier Gunslinger named Godfrey Gloop. He'd take Goblin Gunslinger and Burn! Burn! Burn!

FarsanBaloo wrote:
baggageboy wrote:
You need a drinking buddy with the spirit share spell. No action drinking.

Very interesting, I think I've got a great drinking buddy for you:

Drunken Brute Barbarian with VMC Wizard --> Improved Familiar --> Faerie Dragon who casts spells like a 3rd lvl sorcerer

If you take the teleportation school you could swift action teleport 3 +INT times a day in lvl 7 as well.

Im not sure how many liquids a Faerie Dragon would be able to have on its person though.

Eldritch Guardian Fighters get a Familiar that automatically knows all the Combat Feats you know

Coinshot wrote:

hard to kill... Mainly I'm looking for a full caster build... physical damage isn't as big of a concern from mid-late levels.

Saves (or other ways of negating spells) are still really important though.... I'm looking for general build advice

So, the fastest, easiest way I know to increase your saves is to multiclass, like I said before, but if you want to be a full caster, you should multiclass most sparingly if at all. But you also said

Coinshot wrote:
most of my games tend to fizzle out between levels 5-10

So that means you want to get all you can as fast as you can, because your campaigns never last long, and that does seem to mean you should not be shy about multiclassing.

It occurs to me that when it comes to Full Casters, the best way to be invulnerable is for no one to know you're even there until it's too late. Strategically, it is easy for lots of spellcasters to do that: there are lots of ways to magically hide people and objects from scrying. Tactically, full casters attract a lot of attention. If a Wizard were a Warship, she would be a battleship, not a submarine.

So I'm thinking Arcane Trickster or something like. Maybe start out as a Half Elf, and take Arcane Training, allowing you to use all kinds of Magic Wands right away. Start out as Fighter with Precise Shot. Then dip 2 levels in Ninja and learn Vanishing Trick, and take the False Attacker Rogue Talent.

1Fighter1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2F1Ninja1: Sneak Attack +1d6
3F1N2: Ninja Vanishing Trick, Extra Trick, Rogue Talent, False Attacker

When your opponents can't see you, they automatically lose their Dex Mods to AC, and you automatically get your Sneak Attack Damage. With Arcane Training, you start off knowing how to use any Wand of your Chosen Class. I like Arcanist: you'll know how to use all Sorcerer and Wizard Spells, and that's most of the spells that there are. There are a lot of level 1 Wizard Spells that are really nice for a sneaky character to know, like Grease for a +10 on Escape Artist Checks and Disguise Self for a +10 on Disguise Checks.

When combat begins, you Vanish then find a hiding place using Stealth (with a +20 because you are Invisible!). Then you shoot at people from your hiding place, perhaps using a Wand of Scorching Ray: Ranged Touch Attacks vs. Flatfooted AC that automatically lock in Sneak Attack Damage! Each Round, False Attacker lets you make a Bluff Check as a Swift Action, and if that works, your targets think your attacks are coming from somewhere else, and you don't even need to make Stealth Checks to stay hidden.

So, at level 3, you have 2 good Saves, and in combat, your enemies won't even know how to find you, let alone hit you. High Damage combined with high survivability.

From here, you can go in a lot of directions. I like the idea of packing in lots of Sneak Attack Damage, so a level in Snakebite Striker Brawler, a level in Cavalier with Precise Strike as your Bonus Teamwork Feat (maybe take Snapshot Feats?), a level in Greensting Scorpion Magus, and take Accomplished Sneak Attacker. Take Vital Strike, and your Wand of Scorching Ray does 8d6. I like Alchemists, maybe stick with Vivisectionist if you are sticking to Scorching Ray, maybe diversify and dip a level in Gunslinger and be a Grenadier Alchemist--exploding arrows are cool--or be a Gunchemist Alchemist.

Maybe develop as a Grappler: Turn Invisible, buff yourself, sneak up on your opponent, then the next round have them Grappled and tied up before they know what hit them.

FarsanBaloo wrote:
Derek an alternative which would enable you to drink each round and worship Cayden Cailean for all that sweet flavor is to pick up two weapon fighting and then pick up blade and tankard style through the Divine Fighting Technique feat. Its lets you trade in one of your attacks for a sip from your tankard, and the tankard is considered a weapon which would make it completely legal to quickdraw. If you dip a level in fighter you can trade in the shield proficiency for blade and tankard style and still have a free bonus feat. This would free up your swift to be used for other things as well.

My Alchemists have all just changed their religion.

Coinshot wrote:
High saves

That's easy, multiclass. A level of this, a level of that, and your saves with be stoopud high stoopud fast.

Coinshot wrote:
Some/all of the following: high AC, high HP, ways to mitigate damage (DR, healing, Misfortune to force against crits, ghost form, etc.)

I'd say you left one out: a Miss Chance. Blur gives you a 20% Miss Chance. Blink 50%. Greater Invisibility also 50%. The easiest way to get those is to just be a Half Elf and take the Arcane Training Alternative Racial Trait. Then you can just use the appropriate Magic Wands.

A way that always turned me on to enjoy Total Concealment is the Eversmoking Bottle. The EB makes everyone blind, friend and foe alike. But what you do is take 3 levels in Bard with the Flame Dancer Archetype. Song of Fiery Gaze gives your allies the ability to see through Fire and Smoke, so you just Blinded all your opponents, and your allies can see just fine.

A variant on this would be a combination of Ninja Vanishing Trick to disappear as a Swift Action, then you find a hiding place. You take False Attacker, and then with every attack, you get to make a Bluff check. If successful, your opponent thinks the attack from somewhere else, and you don't even have to reroll your Stealth Check, let alone at that -20.

Coinshot wrote:
high AC,

The obvious is some combination of heavy armor and shield and high Dex. The higher your Dex, the less heavy your armor needs to be.

Coinshot wrote:
ways to mitigate damage (DR, healing,


Living Monolith Prestige Class gets stuff like this: resistance to Crits, immune to Bleed, and DR. And you can keep levelling up as a spellcaster. This is a good choice for a highly survivable full caster.

The Stalwart Feat transforms the Combat Expertise AC Bonus into DR. The prerequisites are Endurance and Diehard. Half Orcs can get Endurance as an Alternate Racial Trait, Shaman's Apprentice. Endurance also lets you sleep in Medium Armor with getting Fatigued.

Fighters can get DR as an Advanced Armor Training Class Ability.

Fast Healing

One of the Inquisitor Judgements available at level 1 give you Fast Healing 1, and it goes up with level.

A Familiar with the Protector Archetype protects you with the Bodyguard Feat early on, and later with Shield Other, so that half the damage you take actually goes to the Familiar instead. If you take the Improved Familiar Feat, you can get a Mephit Familiar. They all have Fast Healing. I'm pretty sure you can get a Mephit Familiar with the Protector Archetype. An Alchemist used to be able to get a Tumor Familiar with the Protector Archetype, but they made that illegal. How do you get your Tumor Familiar to cast Shield Other, is the question.

I'm thinking Derklord is correct.

Feral Combat Training lets you apply to 1 Natural Attack Feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a Prerequisite.

Brawler's Flurry effectively gives you 2 Weapon fighting, which is a Feat, but it does not have IUS as a prereq.


Brawler's Flurry is only useable with a small list of weapons, and Unarmed Strike is right on top.


Brawler's Flurry is only available to level 2 Brawlers, and level 1 Brawlers get Improved Unarmed Strike.

So, that is an argument you could make to your GM to let you apply Brawler's Flurry apply to your Claws through Feral Combat Training.

But, per RAW, no.

Also, I'm not sure why you'd want to do this in the first place. If I wanted to use Brawler's Flurry, I'd go ahead and use one of the listed weapons. If I wanted to use Natural Attacks, I'd do other things that give you much more Damage per Round than Brawler's Flurry. Be a Tengu with Claws, a level in White Haired Witch, 2 levels in Barbarian with a Gore Attack, and now you have 5 Attacks/round that all do 1d6 for starters and go up with levels in Warpriest. And you don't take a -2 on your attacks that 2wf and Brawler's Flurry inflicts on you. More attacks, more accuracy, more damage. Also, didn't I see on another thread where you were thinking of being a Warpriest, anyway?

Or just be a Brawler.

Nosta1300 wrote:
Ok I Have an idea for a character. Won't be rolling dice to after the new year, but I like to have a Lay out for a character.

For starters, good luck with this. I hope you have a lot of fun with it.

Nosta1300 wrote:
(I figure the past lifes can be made very flavorful and i'll fit them to what ever rp i play the character in)
Nosta1300 wrote:

I should in theory have at least 16 in WIS maybe even 18

and need advice on some decent spells to pick for this type of build.


Nosta1300 wrote:
The Idea of this character is that they know some Horrid secret of the world and have been trying to prevent an awful calamity from happening but and Evilforce has been fighting with him/her trying to stop the war priest and some time He wins some the evil force wins

This is a good character backstory. Rich, yet vague enough to let the GM play with it, and that allows him to make your ideas an important part of the story.

Nosta1300 wrote:
The Idea is a samsaran Warpriest (Vital Strike Build)

I’m not sanguine about this combination of Warpriest and Vital Strike. Some elements of one seem to work against the other.

For a Vital Strike build, I’d have you wielding a single big weapon like Greatsword, Earthbreaker, Split Blade Sword, or Butchering Axe: you only get 1 Attack/Round, so you need to make it a good one. The thing is, the distinguishing awesome feature of Warpriest is that Sacred Weapon Damage. But the least of the weapons I mentioned above does 2d6, and Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage doesn’t get that good until level 20. Normally, I would go Warpriest when I want a Full Attack Build with lots of Attacks that do more and more Damage as you gain levels like that Natural Attack Build I outlined for you. You could be an Arsenal Chaplin Warpriest and trade the Sacred Weapon Damage for +1 Attack and Damage every few levels. I just don’t think that is as sexy.

I would have you take at least one level in Ranger you can cast or use a Wand of Lead Blades. That gives you a Virtual Size Increase resulting in an extra 1d6 Damage.

I would have you take at least one level in Living Monolith so you can Enlarge Person 3/day as a Swift Action, giving you an Actual Size Increase and giving you another 1d6 Damage. A reason not to do this is that as a Warpriest, you will eventually be able to cast Righteous Might, which is better than Enlarge Person, but your level in Living Monolith can increase your Caster Level and would not delay your getting Righteous Might. You could take lots of levels in LM, and you could gain Righteous Might as a Class Ability, choosing to either progress in Caster Levels or as a Full BAB character. Meanwhile LM Class Abilities are nice for a Melee Character to have: they become un-critable, immune to Bleed, auto-stabilizing. They get DR.

I would think of ways for you to get more attacks/round that do not depend upon Full Attacking. You only get to use Vital Strike Feats on your 1 Standard Action Attack/round, but more attacks are always better.

Great Cleave is an obvious choice. That requires Power Attack, and so take Furious Focus, since with Vital Strike you were only taking 1 Attack/round anyway.

Another way for you to get extra attacks is Attacks of Opporrtunity. avr mentioned Inquisitor. I like Inquisitor, especially those Teamwork Feats. I like Broken Wing Gambit: whenever you are attacked, you get an Attack of Opportunity.

You could go mobile. Dip a level in Monk, Master of Many Styles. Take Panther Style Feats, which give you a Free Action Attack for whenever you Provoke an Attack of Opportunity by Moving out of a Threatened Square, up to your (very high) Wisdom Mod. Since this all happens as part of your Move, you still get to Vital Strike or Great Cleave as a Standard Action, and this would stack with Attacks of Opportunity such as from Broken Wing Gambit. I’m describing a mountain of Feats, here. Fighters get a lot of Feats, and they also get Inquisitors’ Solo Tactics thing with the Teamwork Feats.

Even so, you have a fair chance of reaching level 30 before you take all of them. You’d have to pick the ones that are most important to get first, and resign yourself to never getting around to getting them all. Or just go your own way, using some of these ideas if any appeal to you.

avr wrote:

For tying people up get bloodvine rope. Scott knows about this, he's just forgotten for a moment. Wrangler's gloves may also be useful.

If you enjoy being the party goon all the time, and your gaming group is fine with that then I guess that explains why you're always trying to get the last drop of optimisation on every character. Different gaming groups can be very different and that wouldn't work with the people I know.

I guess I must have forgotten about Bloodvine Rope.

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GM: as you head up the hill, you see the warehouse silhouetted by the sunset.

PC: Warehouse? What's a warehouse? Is that like a werewolf that's a person that turns into wolf, but instead the person turns into a house?

GM: (scribbling furiously) It is now!

Opuk0 wrote:

So after reading over everything, it's starting to sound like spellcasters just don't exist on the high seas at all. Maybe I'll make that into a rule, no casters since anyone with 14 int or higher would know piracy is a dead end job.

Should that include alchemist's as they're technically casters?

Aren't there rules that make it harder to cast spells while on a ship: Concentration Checks or something?

avr wrote:
@Scott: 'A weapon can normally only bear one modification at a time.'


How did the cleric Blind the Leader? If it was just some spell, was its duration all that long? The Party leader Animated his dead comrade? So the party leader is some sort of Evil Cleric himself?

If he can stay alive for a day, then can he pray for some kind of cure blindness spell?

In the event of a TPK,

The Leader was Blinded by a Cleric, so maybe the Cleric Raises the party himself and enslaves them, and the next adventure(s) is figuring out how to escape.

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Ryze Kuja wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
But how does the PC acquire a Needful Doll himself? (That's the problem, and one the GM would have to be "in on" for the player to even find one let alone try to fob it off onto someone else in the party.)
As far as acquiring a Needful Doll, I'd go check out Ye Olde Witchcraft and Fetish Shoppe or find someone with Craft Wondrous Item and the requisite spells and make it yourself.

Needful Dolls sound very tenacious, but not very virulent. What bad stuff does the Needful Doll do for you? Why not just carry it around in a sling like a baby?

Nosta1300 wrote:

Any good items i could afford for him at level 5 that would benefit me

I mean grappling wise

Armbands of the Brawler: +1 on Grappling Checks

Brawling Armor Enchantment +3 equ, iirc

Adhesive Armor Enchantment: 7000gp (?)

Weapon Enchantments or Amulet of Mighty Fists add to your GMB if the weapon itself is being used to Grapple with such as a Piercing Weapon with Hamatula Strike or a Witch's White Hair.

Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver

Belt of Strength

Magic Wands/Potions/Elixers: Bull Strength, Boiling Blood, True Strike, Lockjaw, Enlarge Person, Monstrous Physique, Beast Shape, Grease (+10 Escape Artist Bonus).

Wear Armor with Armor Spikes and do extra damage with every Grapple Attack. Enchant your Armor Spikes.

Alchemal Mutagen

If you want to Tie Up your opponents, you need to consider the Burst DC of what you are tying them up with:

Hemp Rope: 23
Silk Rope: 24
Spider Silk Rope: 25
Chain: 26
Mithril Chain: 27, iirc

There is no burst DC for Adamantine Chain, and no list price either. There is the Dwarven Dorn Dergar, a 10' long chain weapon. You can get that in Adamantine for an additional 3000gp. A GM should allow you to Tie Up someone with that, but you never know.

Iron Rope: upon command, it turns into iron (after you tie up someone)
Robe of Infinite Twine.

Opuk0 wrote:
For 18k a year, or even 6 months if you wanna be generous, you could easily get a cadre of 6 mages to fart out a single fireball each per day, two casts of scorching ray, and three casts of obscuring mist for ship stealth purposes.

I'll do you better. A Bard with a Lyre of Building, a Decanter of Endless Water, and an Eversmoking Bottle. Look at the price of ships. It seems absurd that any decent-sized merchant ship doesn't have a complement of all of the above

I guess the way to go with cannon is to have an Alchemist captain a battery of cannon with your mooks reloading them so that 1 is ready each round for the Alchemist to load his Bombs into the projectiles and fire every round.

Nosta, I posted an outline for a build for you on your thread that was a duplicate of this one.

Nosta1300 wrote:
I think I want to do the wrestling thing like Ryan Freire said

So the build I outlined was a Full Attack build, but for a build like that, I'd have the character take Hamatula Strike and wear Armor Spikes, turning every attack into a Grapple and doing Armor Spike Damage, then releasing.

For a classic Grappler I see the goal as Tying Up your opponent.

I consider it essential to dip 2 levels in Cavalier and join the Order of the Penitent. Their Order Ability is to Tie Up a Grappled--not Pinned--Opponent, and they don't take the -10 you normally take. If you have Expert Captor and Greater Grapple, and you begin the round adjacent to your opponent, you can Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action and Tie them Up as a Move Action, done and dusted in a single round!

The obvious choice for Teamwork Feat for Cavalier is Coordinated Maneuvers, getting yourself an extra +2 on your CMB and on all your Allies'.

The fastest stretch of levels for increasing your GMB is through 4 levels in Alchemist taking the King Crab Tumor Familiar and the Tentacle, giving you a +2 and +4 respectively. If you take Infusion, you can play another trick: use Share Spells to put Touch Injection on your Crab Familiar. Give your Crab an Infusion of True Strike. Cast True Strike on yourself and Move up to your opponent. Next Round, you Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action enjoying a +20 due to True Strike. Your Crab uses Touch Injection as a Readied Action to inject you with more True Strike, then you Tie Up your opponent as a Move Action, again with the +20.

I have played a Grappler character in PFS, and by the time she was level 9, her full time Grapple Attack Bonus was +30.

Nosta1300 wrote:
i'm just afraid my ac my be to low to surive long

My Grappler was in Mithril Medium Armor, back in the days when you could put the Brawling Enchantment on it. You can still wear Light Armor with the Brawling Enchantment, and you might even be allowed to use a shield. The Grappling rules say that you take a -4 if you attempt to Grapple without 2 hands Free, and my Grappler has 2 hands and a Tentacle. If one of those hands is using a Shield, then he has 1 hand and 1 tentacle free. If 1 hand and 1 tentacle doesn't count as 2 hands in this context, it should, and your GM is being cheesy. You can then cut a slice of cheese for yourself and say the shield is being held by the tentacle, which is technically not illegal and technically does not deny you your +4 for having the Grab Ability. Sure, that's cheesier, but your GM would deserve that for ruling that a hand and tentacle doesn't count as 2 hands for the purposes of Grappling.

The thing I think is most uniquely awesome about Tetori is the Inescapable Grasp Class Ability, which negates Freedom of Movement, the bane of all Grapplers everywhere. You don't get Inescapable Grasp until 9 levels of Tetori, though. I don't think it would be practical to follow my advice and go for Inescapable Grasp. Moreover, a Grappler has some severe limitations. You make yourself vulnerable while you are Grappling. If you aren't timing things right, you opponent might get in a Full Attack. You can only Grapple 1 opponent at a time unless you are playing some kind of a very special trick. My method is a feature in a character build, not the whole build itself. And remember you can't even get Greater Grapple until you have a BAB of +6. Now you will be a powerful switch hitter, good at Range and a devastating Grappler.

My first thought is develop as an archer until your BAB approaches +6, then take your levels in Cavalier and stuff to get Greater Grapple and Expert Captor by level 7. Then take levels in Alchemist with the Grenadier Archetype. With 2 levels in Grenadier, you can put Alchemal weapons on your arrows as a Move Action, and you can get the Explosive Missile Discovery and put Bombs on your arrows as you shoot them as Standard Action. Meanwhile, take Infusion, King Crab Tumor Familiar, and Tentacle as I mentioned above. Take Extra Discoveries as Feats to hurry yourself along. Now you will be a devastating Grappler who shoots Exploding Arrows.

I thought of a way to Grapple multiple opponents and a way to do the 1 round Tie Up thing before level 6 or 7.

Personally, I build my character with game mechanics, and I roleplay by roleplaying. I often find I have to get to know my character before settle on roleplaying aspects.

So you are thinking Tiefling and Unarmed Strikes. Tieflings make Darkness. There are 2 Feats to look at: Nightmare Fist and Moonlight Stalker. Both give you bonuses when you are in Darkness and/or enjoy Concealment.

Since you are confused and asking for clarification, why don't I confuse you more with another option?

Take the Claws Alternate Racial Trait. Dip 4 levels in Barbarian to get the Lesser Fiend Totem to get Gore attack and Animal Fury to get a Bite Attack. Dip a level in White Haired Witch to get a Hair Attack.

Now take levels in Warpriest and do Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage instead of the regular Natural Weapon Damage.

You could be a Dreadnaught so you can keep casting spells while Raging and won't get Fatigued after or just go for the full Rage and cast lesser restoration on yourself after to shake off the Fatigue.

The Natural Full Attack gives you more attacks than FoB. The Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage scales up with levels comparably. I can think of a way to give you more.

It fits the gentle giant thing, and so does the Rage with your friends start getting hurt. The Warpriest levels add a flavor of spiritual wokeness that you might not have been thought about, but it is not out-of-place in a gentle-hearted monster who enjoy a simple, peaceful (and spiritually rich?) life, but can turn into a whirlwind of bloody death when necessary.

Derklord wrote:

Thing I'm not sure about:

● The ability to deal nonlethal damage without penalty (on one hand, that basically comes from the general rules for US, but on the other hand, it it explicitly mentioned in the Unarmed Strike class feature)

Meh, if the GM says no to that, and if the OP wants that, Non-lethal is just another weapon modification. He's modifying his Katana once, why not modify it more?

Modify it a lot more?

Take Jagged Hooks so it does more Damage on a Crit (Katana's have a Threat Range of 18-20.)

Take Razor Sharp and do more Damage (why not?)

Take Tactically Adapted again and make it not just a Nonlethal Weapon, but also a Trip Weapon, then when he takes Vicious Stomp, Ascetic Style will let him take his AoO with the Katana instead of the Unarmed Strike.

Take Dual Balanced, get twin Katanas, and double your fun!

Derklord wrote:
If you're an unchained Monk, (if you aren't, why not?)

I would do it to be a Master of Many Styles and take Ascetic Style and Panther Style Feats, getting lots of bonus attacks with my preferred weapon instead of Unarmed Strike.

ErichAD wrote:

Only two-handed. Weapon mods specify that you can only use modified exotic weapons if you have the Modified Weapon Proficiency or Weapon Adept feats. Use a nodachi instead and call it good.

You do need to take weapon focus and ascetic style with a weapon you are proficient with and be 5th level. It should worth other than that one minor hiccup. Once it's part of the monk weapon group, ascetic style grants you proficiency as proficiency is effecting your unarmed strikes, and that covers the only complicated part of the feat interaction.

I was thinking about doing something like this with a Split Blade Sword. Initially, I was thinking of using the Human Feat Martial Versatility.

Martial Versatility Weapon Focus (My character would have already taken Weapon Focus Split Blade Sword.)
Ascetic Style 9 Ring Broadsword
Martial Versatility Ascetic Style

I was hoping I could save 2 Feats by modifying the Split Blade Sword:

Modify the Split Blade Sword to make it a Monk Weapon in addition to a Heavy Blade.
Ascetic Style Modified Split Blade Sword.

But you are saying I need 1 more Feat: Weapon Adept, Versatile Design or Modified Weapon, Split Blade Sword. So that would make it:

Modify the weapon and take Modified Weapon Split Blade Sword
Ascetic Style Modified Split Blade Sword.

2 is not as good as 1, but 2 is better then 3 *sigh.*

Derklord wrote:
Correction: Enforcer, not Cornugon Smash.

Cornugon Smash would work, too: a free Intimidate with every hit, but I concede that Enforcer is the better Feat to take with Sap Master.

Derklord wrote:
Vivisectionist only stacks levels, and not dice, and thus doesn't help.

Ah. Oops. Vivisectionist might be worth considering for a Sneak Attacking Character, but you can't use it the way I suggested: to topload lots of SA Damage in a hurry. Nice, maybe, but not as nice as I thought.

Derklord wrote:
Greensting Slayer Magus needs to expend arcane points, which probably won't last a single combat.

It is fair to say that in most cases, Greensting Slayer is the least desireable way to gain Sneak Attack Damage among the ways I listed. It might be nice if you have some other reason to take levels in Magus. The fact that it's a temporary boost to Sneak Attack Damage and not a proper increase means that it would stack with Accomplished Sneak Attacker even if it would boost your SA Damage past 1/2 your level. There's probably an offset to the Arcane Pool problem like one of those Feats that let you spend Ki or Grit points or something as Arcane Pool Points.

I'm not strongly advising that the OP take levels in Greensting Slayer Magus. I was just thinking of all the ways a PC can dip levels and take Feats to get extra Sneak Attack Damage extra fast.

Derklord wrote:
"Sneak Attack is the single most overrated class feature in the entire game even at full progression

I seem to like Sneak Attack Damage better than you.

I'll grant that it's situational, but I don't think it is highly situational. Lots of players attempt to Flank naturally in melee, and the party Rogue will get to enjoy that often. And there are a lot of ways of varying cost and effectiveness of locking in your SA Damage: you must recall my list I've posted before. I think if you have 2 or 3 of them, you can usually get your SA Damage, which can add up to a lot.

Also granted, there are creatures that can't be Precision Damaged, but not a lot, and most of those can't be targeted regularly anyway, like Oozes and Swarms. Incorporeal Undead can't be Precision-Damaged and can be targeted. Some creatures can't be Flanked, but can still suffer Precision Damage. The Froghemoth comes to mind. In 3.5, all Undead and Constructs could not take Precision Damage, but in Pathfinder, they changed that, so I would not be uncomfortable advising a Sneak Attack character.

Also, bear in mind, that if you have a Small Melee PC, regular weapon Damage scales down with Size. Sneak Attack Damage does not scale down with Size. I really like Precision Damage for a Size Small Character.

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
So, what am I supposed to do if I don't use XP at all?

You're the GM. Make something up that's fair, and then go with that.

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
"level them up whenever the PC levels up", or "level them up whenever the PC's Leadership score increases".

That sounds good.

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
seems potentially problematic, since Leadership Scores can shift wildly in response to story events and new gear (whoops, I spent a day wearing my Headband of Charisma, time for a level-up for the cohort!).

It does seem capricious that the Cohort should suddenly level up under circumstances like that, but it might make sense that you should have the cohort gain experience points--or however it is you gauge professional growth of characters in your campaign--faster over a period of time to represent your PCs cohorts blossoming under their improved leadership.

And there are times when the Leadership Score would go down, and if a PC's Leadership Score goes down so far that the Cohort is now too high level to be the PC's Cohort, then maybe that Cohort leaves the PC, shaking his hand, thanking him for everything he taught him, and then going off to make his own fortunes, graduating from Cohort to allied NPC. That happens all the time in the real world. Then let him be replaced by a lower-level cohort that the PC has some ability to decide about. Maybe one of the followers knows a guy, or turns out to have been a Level 5 Rogue or something.

Another thing to consider, although this might be better as Advice than Rules discussion:

It seems to me that the purpose of taking Sap Adept is to increase your Sneak Attack Damage Dice. If that's what the OP wants, wouldn't it make more sense to not be a Slayer? Slayers get +1d6 SA dice every 3 levels. Ninjas, Rogues, and Vivisectionist Alchemists get +1d6 every 2 levels. That seems to be a much simpler and more versatile way to get greater Sneak Attack Damage.

If you really want to maximize your Sneak Attack, you multiclass: 1 level in Snakebite Striker Brawler, 1 level in Unchained Rogue, 1 level in Vivisectionist, 1 level in Cavalier taking Precise Strike as your Bonus Teamwork Feat, and 1 level in Magus with the Greensting Scorpion Archetype +5d6 Sneak Attack Damage in 5 levels.

And you can still take those Sap Feats later.

Java Man wrote:
As to sources: OP is playing CRB only, so sacred tattoo, steel soul, glory of old, fate's favored, any other alt race trait, all off the table and irrelevant to this.


Sammage wrote:
I am a human fighter Str: 16, Dex: 16, Con: 14, Int: 13, Wis: 10, Cha: 9. (can't change these)

The OP is already Human and can't change that. We all have our race favorites. Honestly, I think which is the better race depends on the particulars of the character build more than anything intrinsic.

With respect to this thread, the best answer so far is Human, because the last, best word from the OP is that his character is a Human and can't change it. I raised the possibility of changing it, and others have chimed in with their suggestions in the event that the OP can change his Race after all. Java's raising another possibility. Maybe only Core Races are allowed, but non core alternate racial traits are allowed. Maybe not. This was all good stuff up to a point. That's why I haven't contributed to this thread in a week.

There is something else to parse out:

Slayer, Sneak Attack wrote:
He cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.

Yeah, Sap Master has some exciting potential, but it is seriously Feat intensive and severely limited.

Sap Master only works when your victim is properly Flatfooted, not just denied Dex Mod to AC, and it only works when you are inflicting nonlethal Bludgeoning Damage.

So the OP needs to take Weapon Versatility, Bludgeoner, Dazzling Dissplay, Cornugdeon Smash, and Shatter Defenses. There are ways around some of those Feats, but I think you still have to take a lot of them, and again, it commits you to nonlethal bludgeoning damage. But you get Double Sneak Attack Damage +1 point/die.

I was kind of thinking of doing something like this with levels in Monk, since Unarmed Strike Damage is already Bludgeoning and can be made nonlethal without penalty. Plus it makes you eligible for another Feat, Knockout Punch, which also gives you +1 Damage/Sneak Attack Die, making it Double +2 instead of just double +1.

The OP is proposing to spend a lot to get a lot. I hope he tells us how it works out.

Derklord wrote:
It's possibly to have a Fighter be resonable proficient with both a bow and a melee weapon, but you won't be good at either.

It is fair to say that a PC that isn't bad at anything isn't good at anything, either. On the other hand, it is also fair to say that characters with aggressive strengths also tend to have aggressive weaknesses.

I think it is possible for a PC to be good at a couple of things.

I think that it is possible that a PC that is merely competent at a lot of things can be an asset to the party, especially if it's a party of changing composition like a PFS party or some other campaign being run at a public venue like a gaming store. Another time it's good to be multitalented is when you have a GM who likes to take all your stuff away from you and force the archer to learn how to be a hero with his bow. You know, like in Shoot 'em Up , when the bad guy breaks all the gunslinger-hero's fingers.

It is likely that it would be best if the OP's PC be merely competent at shooting or slashing and actually good at the other.

Diachronos, I recommend that you talk with your fellow party members about this and find out about what the other PCs are doing and blend your character's strengths accordingly.

For instance, take Precise Shot. What is Precise Shot for? Precise Shot is for shooting into melee. Should you take Precise Shot? You answer that question by asking, "What should you do in melee?" If you are good with sword and board, shouldn't you be the one to drop the bow and join the melee? If so, then you should not take Precise Shot. If you are the one who shoots into melee, then should invest all that many Feats into wading into melees that you intend to shoot into?

Maybe you should take Precise Shot and be good at sword-and-board. I kind of like the idea some of the time. Like what do I do when I am in Melee against opponents with longer reach than mine? How about shooting them? Seems sensible to me.

Even my dedicated melee characters have Ranged Weapons. What do you do when your opponents Fly and you don't, or when you're on a ship on a river, and opponents are firing on you from the shore. A bow gives you something to do, but that doesn't necessarily mean you should invest in being an awesome archer.

Anyway, you have a lot to think about.

I'm liking Half Elves lately. They have 2 Alternate Racial Traits I like: Arcane Training and Ancestral Arms. Arane Training gives them a half-level in any 1 Arcane Class, so pick Arcanist, and you can use a Magic Wand with any Sorcerer or Wizard Spell, and that gives you a huge utility, especially since you want to be a single class Fighter. Take a look at the Swift Girding Spell. Normally, it takes minutes to put on heavy armor, so if a fight starts when you aren't ready--Wandering Monsters while you sleep--you don't have time to dress in your armor, and you'll be fighting in your underwear. A lot of the time, you need to take off your armor to use a skill or something, and you can't have that Armor Check Penalty, and then you have a combat right on the top of the cliff. It sure is nice when you can get into your Armor as a Standard Action. I regard Swift Girding as crucial. Also, there is the Spell Gravity Bow, which lets your arrows inflict damage as if they were a size bigger. That increased the Damage from a longbow from 1d8 to 2d6. That's a lot.

Ancestral Arms gives you an Exotic Weapon Proficiency, and there are 2 I like: Orc Hornbow and Split Blade Sword.

Diachronos wrote:
I picked Longbow and Longsword specifically because they fit the thematic design of the bow and sword used in the Shadowshot and Daybreak skills. None of those other weapons fit the design very well (maybe greatsword).

I peeped Destiny 2, and I have to say I don't see that that longsword can't be a Split Blade Sword and not depart from the feel of the character.

And my opinion, the composite bow actually looks more like the Destiny 2 character's bow to me, and an Orc Hornbow is just a Composite Bow that does more damage.

Up to you, of course. I'm just saying.

Diachronos wrote:
I have a long-standing bias against multiclassing

I like dipping into Ranger 1-3 levels. I like Endurance. I like the level 2 Bonus Feat. I like the Good Reflex Save. I like the Freebooter Archetype's ability to give themselves and all their Allies +1 Attack and damage. And even 1 level in Ranger lets you use Wands with Ranger Spells on them. I like Gravity Bow and Lead Blades. Gravity Bow is also a Wizard Spell you can use in Wand-form just by being a Half Elf like I said, but Lead Blades is only a Ranger Spell. Lead Blades is like Gravity Bow, but for melee weapons. Your longsword would go from 1d8 to 2d6. Your Split Blade Sword would go from 2d6 to 3d6.

Another way to bump up your Reflex Save is with the Fighter's Reflexes Advanced Weapon Training Class Ability. That lets you apply your Weapon Training Bonus to your Reflex Saves. You can take an Advanced Weapon Training at level 9 and every 4 levels after, and you can take an Advanced Weapon Training as a Feat once every 4 levels starting at level 5.

Endurance lets you sleep in Medium Armor. I worry about sleeping in Armor a lot. Endurance and Iron Will are prerequisites to become a Living Monolith. With just 1 level in Living Monolith, you get the Toughness Feat: +1HP/level--nice. You can Enlarge Person as a Swift Action, increasing your ST by +2 and your Size by 1 step. This stacks with the Virtual Size Increases from Gravity Bow and Lead Blades, so you can buff your base damage for your longbow and longsword to 3d6 or your Orc Hornbow and Split Blade Sword to 4d6. Living Monolith also has the prerequisite of Iron Will, but you should consider taking Iron Will anyway since Fighters have poor Will Saves.

I like dipping in Inquisitor. I like the Good Will Saves. I like the utility of Spells. I like Fast Healing such as by the Inquisitor Judgement. With 3 levels in Inquisitor, you can take Teamwork Feats and use them as if all your Allies had those Feats. I really like Broken Wing Gambit, which gives you an Attack of Opportunity just for being Attacked. Take 5 levels in Inquisitor, and you get Bane.

As a Fighter, you can improve your Will Saves with an Advanced Weapon Training called Armed Bravery. And you can use Teamwork Feats like and Inquisitor can through another Advance Weapon Training called Fighter's Tactics.

So, I'm thinking about options I like that I think are good for you, but of course it is up to you to pick the options that will make your character the most fun.

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Diachronos wrote:
Is there a way, through either a fighter archetype or a feat, that would allow someone to apply feats like Weapon Focus to both a longsword and a longbow?
Lelomenia wrote:
it’s not officially clear how Versatile Design interacts with weapon groups that include both melee and ranged weapons (e.g., Thrown, Monk). Maybe no weapons can be modified into those groups, maybe all weapons can be, or maybe Paizo has an official list of which groups are considered melee and which have been deemed ranged locked in their safe.
Versatile Design wrote:
A melee weapon cannot be considered part of a weapon group for ranged weapons, and vice versa.

It is hard to tell what "a weapon group for ranged weapons" means. If it means a group with ranged weapons in it, you can't use Verstile Design to make a Longsword into a Monk Weapon, because there are ranged weapons in the group. If it means a group intended just for Ranged Weapons, then you can. If Derklord's idea that you round off to the nearest group, then the Monk Group is "a weapon group for" melee weapons, which means you could make a longsword into a Monk Weapon, but not a Longbow.

Okay, here's something you could do: use Versatile Design so that you can modify your Longbow to be in the Thrown Weapon Group. Modify your Longsowrd so that it is also in the Monk Weapon Group. Then you put your weapon-specific feats on Shuriken which is both in the Thrown and Monk Weapon Groups. So then can use Martial Versatility to make your weapon specific Feats to apply to all the weapons in both the Monk and Thrown Weapon Groups: your special longbow and longsword. I'm sure that this is what most people would call a cheeseball tactic. And this solution is rather Feat-Intensive in and of itself. In a lot of cases, it might make more sense just take Weapon Focus twice. But it would make sense if you wanted to something else, like dip 2 levels into Monk Master of Many Styles and take Ascetic Style for Shuriken and Panther Style Feats. Then take Martial Versatility for Ascetic Style. Now you can use Panther Style Feats for your longsword and for your longbow, letting you get multiple free action attacks whenever you provoke an attack of opportunity by moving out of a threatened square, and now you can do that with either longbow or longsword. But you did say you don't want to multiclass, so that particular trick is out, I guess.

Derklord wrote:
Sanguine Angel prestige class.

That's a good Prestige Class.

It looks to me like a Magus is a gish that self-buffs in melee. An Eldritch Knight Prestige Class is a Wizard that can do some fighting.

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Yqatuba wrote:
This probably sounds really OCD but when I am the DM if a monster's HP is really close to a round number I like to round it off (so if the monster had 394 hp I would give it 400 instead.)

All right, now you've done it!

In my next campaign, I'm going to hide hidden messages in the HP of the Monsters. The Dragon's HP will actually be map coordinates to another treasure trove!

or something

I just have to make a character based on Larry Walters.

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DungeonmasterCal wrote:
I honestly do not understand some players' obsession with not letting someone else touch their dice. It's not a hygiene thing. I would understand that. But afraid you'll harsh their mojo is just...weird.

That's not my dice-obsession, but I have one or 2.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Yqatuba wrote:
(Nikola Tesla wasn't really a wizard obviously)
How DARE you?!


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Yqatuba wrote:
(Nikola Tesla wasn't really a wizard obviously)

How DARE you?!

PossibleCabbage wrote:
My War for the Crown character is a Brazen Deceiver Bard based on Emperor Norton who claims he is the true emperor of Cheliax and wants to reunify with Taldor under Eutropia.


I have a PFS character based not-very-loosely after a pro wrestler. The wrestling part of the character build was devastating in context, but she did have some severe limitations when the situation did not call for Grappling and tying up.

I named a PFS character Hester Estrella, named after Leigh Ann Hester the first woman to ever be awarded the Silver Star for individual valor, but the character was not based on her beyond the name.

I came to know of a phenomenon in the Far East that women born in the Year of the Fire Horse are considered unlucky to such a degree that it's a social problem. I created a character based on that with 1 particular woman in mind intended to make some sort of feminist statement about the problem.

I made a character who was the Once'ler from the Lorax.

In general, I found these allusions to not be intrusive on the roleplaying experience.

Diachronos wrote:
...So nothing that would allow me to stick with Fighter, then?

I might be able to work out something with nothing but Fighter levels, but I tend to see all the problems in the world as solvable by multiclassing.

I can think of ways for a PC to be awesome in melee and at Range, but I never thought to commit to Longbow and Longsword.

So, I need to ask:

Do you really need to be a single class Fighter, and if you can budge at all, what do you think is most important about being a Fighter?

Do you really need to use a Longbow? How about a Long Composite Bow or an Orc Hornbow? How do you feel about Thrown Weapons? How do you feel about other stuff like guns and magic wands?

How do you feel about Longsword? Why Longsword? Why not Split Blade Sword, Estoc, Greatsword, or Bastard Sword? How do you feel about Natural Attacks? How do you feel about Feats that let you use your Bow in melee?

Diachronos wrote:
Is there a way, through either a fighter archetype or a feat, that would allow someone to apply feats like Weapon Focus to both a longsword and a longbow?

There is a Human Feat called Martial Versatility that lets apply you weapon-specific Feats such as Weapon Focus to all the Weapons in the same Fighter Weapon Group as the one you have that Feat (Weapon Focus) in. But Longbow and Longsword are too different from each other to play that particular trick.

Rikkan the Rat wrote:
My first thought was Monk

Take a look at Archon Style Feats. They are specifically for protecting allies.

I'm thinking a character that exists to defend a spellcaster might focus on survivability. Maybe find ways to gain a Miss Chance, a high AC, Damage Reduction, and/or Fast Healing. I always thought it would be cool to get all of the above.

Also, see if you make all your Saves good.

Ryan Freire wrote:
skill unlock for intimidate,

Intimidate sounds like a crucial skill for you. If we're thinking Rogue, I'm thinking maybe Hurtful, Dazzling Display, Shatter Defenses, which will open the door to Sap Master, after taking Sap Adept and maybe Knockout Artist. Sap Master will double your Sneak Attack Damage dice, and the other 2 increase your Sneak Attack Damage by 1 point/die each.

These Feats only work with nonlethal damage with bludgeoning weapons. Knockout Artist commits you to Unarmed Strikes.

Rikkan the Rat wrote:
the lady will have a way to let him know her wishes in social situations (the other player hasn't specified how yet)

The Bluff Skill can be used to convey secret messages.

Quixote wrote:
I don't think the OP was using the term "tinker" literally.

Oh, you mean "tinker" as in Tinkerbell, not tinker as in someone who fixes things.

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Rikkan the Rat wrote:
Like the subject says, I need a little help fitting into the flavor of my next game. Thanks for any advice.

So, what is the flavor of your campaign? You've talked about the role you want to play, a character specifically attuned to one of the other PCs, but what about your campaign world?

Rikkan the Rat wrote:
So I'll be playing a protector/butler kind of character, who is hired to see to a rich noble woman (Played by another player, she's a Witch class, but at start nobody knows). So not only will I need to protect her, I'll also be carrying her gear and doing all the heavy lifting for her (damn rich people), so I can't dump strength. I'll also be the one doing the talking for her (rich nobles don't talk to mere commoners), so charisma will be needed as well. I don't really care if it's a melee, ranged, or caster build, as long as it can hold its own enough to be a protector, and still have decent Diplomacy.

There are a whole lot of ways you could go with a character to fill roles like this. A lot of people said Bard, sure, as a Bard, you can be your Lady's broker, entertainer, and bodyguard.

I guess we need to ask some more questions about how you envision your role.

How do you appear next to your Lady socially? Are you her manservant, her muscle, her lover-cabana boy, her privy counsellor, or her fixer?

What happens when things get tense? She gives you a look that no one else notices, then you take a step forward, and suddenly the room gets darker, and everyone can feel the temperature change when they see your hand resting on the pommel of your sword? Or does she just laugh merrily, and shake hands with the people she was negotiating with, and only one of them will live to see the sunrise: he will wake up with the others' severed heads in his bed.

What happens in combat? Do you grab her and spirit her away? Do you vanish and pick people off one-by-one? Do you interpose yourself between her and danger warding off all harm while she ravishes everyone with Eldritch energies cracking from her fingertips? Do you work together closely with your Lady? Does she wade into battle as well, or does she hang back and cast spells over your head?

You know, in our modern mythology, there are fairies that live in machines and make electrical things go wrong. They're called gremlins. When people have some kind of randomish, minor problem in some electrical system, say if your Check Engine light sometimes turns itself on then off again, you'd say you have a gremlin in your car.

I think the creature has the option of making a 2nd round melee attack, then Grappling as a Free Action, and if successful, it inflicts damage. If the creature does not want the Grappled Condition itself, then it takes a -20 on the CMB.


Making a Maintain-a-Grapple Combat Maneuver Check as a Standard Action, or a Move Action if the creature has Greater Grapple and/or as a Swift Action if it has Rapid Grappler. Doing that, the Froghemoth or whatever has all the grappling options open to it.


the Froghemoth lashes out from the water in the surprise Round with a full attack on the party: 4 tentacles, a bite, and its tongue. It scores 6 hits and 6 successful Grapples. It elects to accept the Grappled Condition itself, forgoing the -20 penalty.

The next round, the Froghemoth decides to take a Standard Action to Swallow Whole the character in the creature's mouth. It takes a Standard Action to do so. It does not have Improved Grapple, so this would normally provoke an Attack of Opportunity, but since the rest of the party are Grappled in the Tongue and Tentacles, they can't make Attacks of Opportunity. The first Character get swallowed, but then it has no more Actions left to Maintain Grapples, so it is forced to let the rest of the party go.

The next round, the Froghemoth elects to Full Attack again, and scores 5 more Grabs in 4 tentacles and its tongue, its mouth vacant for the moment.

The next round, it might decide to swallow the creature its holding in its tongue. I think it needs to make a Standard Action Grapple Check to Move the character from Tongue to Mouth. Under these circumstances, though, it would probably be better to Full Attack again, and if the Bite is successful, Initiate a new Grapple and transfer the character to its mouth that way, and all subsequent successful Grapple Checks from the other Attacks Damage the other characters, and unsuccessful ones release the characters.

If the GM wanted to be really mean, the Froghemoth would decide it had a full belly and retreat into the pond with its belly full of Barbarian...

According to what the rules say, there is no stated limit I have found as to how many people you can be in control of a Grapple with.

In practice, it's very hard to be in control of multiple Grapples opponents at the same time.

Normally, Grappling is a Standard Action.

Greater Grapple lets you make a Grapple Check as a Move Action, but not to Initiate a Grapple.

Grab lets you Initiate a Grapple as a Free Action, but only Initiate.

Hamatula Strike lets you Grapple for free as part of an attack with a Piercing Weapon, and then Grapple to Inflict Damage.

Temperans wrote:

In my case I have a tendency to at least try to multiclass in some way, I try to avoid single class characters unless there is little options (ex Wizards).

Also, probably due to self-esteem issues and some bad experiences I believe I have a high tendency to roll on the low side when it matters most.

Finally, I too tend to use spreadsheets, but it's because it saves me from having to calculate things and erase every time I decide to change something. Automated buffs/debuffs are great.

I multiclass more than anyone else I know!

Just brainstorming. Just trying to help. I make powerful characters. I was hoping you'd find something useful.

You don't like my ideas, fine.

Good luck.

A Goblin named Bonzai!!

So, this doesn't have to be a Goblin. I was thinking I might make this character technically a Halfling for Pathfinder Society, and make it very clear to the table that he's a Goblin, politely asking the GM to pass on my upturned middle finger to Paizo Publishing for making such a fun race but not letting anyone play it.

Level 1, Brawler1: Unarmed 1d4, Sneak Attack 1d6, Dodge, BAB+1
2B1Arcanist1: Dimensional Slide

The level in Arcanist gives the character a lot: now he can use almost any Arcane Magic Wand, offering tremendous utility. Dimensional Slide is a tactical teleport that can be done as part of your move and does not end your turn. It only has a 10' Range, but that's enough to achieve Flanking.

Later, as the character gains wealth and can buy better wands, he might get a Wand of Greater Invisibility and lock in Sneak Attack Damage that way.

3B1A1Unchained Rogue1: Sneak Attack +1d6, Weapon Finesse (Unarmed Strike), Combat Reflexes
4B1A1U2: Ninja Trick, Style Master, Panther Style, BAB+2
5B2A1U2: Mobility, Canny Tumble, Brawler’s Flurry, BAB+3

Slim Jim wrote:
Get rid of Dodge, Mobility, and Uncanny Tumble -- that saves three or four feats right there. (Dear rogues everywhere: stop acrobating through threatened zones! That's how you get killed.

Alas, exactly what you told us not to do! So this character is using Panther Style Feats to get bonus attacks, and Dodge and Mobility to stay alive while doing it. In the past, I had a Halfling Fighter who had a full time AC of 20 or maybe even higher by level 2: say an 18 Dex, Lamellar Leather and Shield, Size Small: 10+4+2+6+1 = 23. Plus Dodge and Mobility makes that 28, and that's with nonmagical Armor and Shield, no Ring of Protection--practically naked! At the same time, he has Canny Tumble to lock in his Sneak Attack Damage.

6B2A1U3: Finesse Training, SAD+1d6, Danger Sense+1, BAB+4
7B2A2U4: Panther Claw, Combat Training, Panther Parry, BAB+5
8B2A2U4Monk1: Monk Stuff, Master of Many Styles, Snake Style
9B2A2U4M1Fighter1: Snake Sidewind, Snake Fang, BAB+6

So, this is the hat trick, Panther Parry + Snake Fang by level 9, Dex-to-Damage, lots of bonus Attacks every round, including a strong ability to inflict those on single targets: 1 Free Action Attack, 1 Attack of Opportunity, 1 Immediate Action Attack, and 1 Standard Action Attack, all with a very reliable means of locking in 3d6 Sneak Attack Damage. Running around drawing lots of Attacks of Opportunity, he will have an AC of 30 before any magic Item purchases. His BAB is low, but this will hopefully be offset by frequently targeting Flatfooted AC and by Weapon Finesse. Also, the Attacks of Opportunity will be at +4 due to Paired Opportunist.

His Saving throws:
Fort: +8
Reflex: +9
Will: +5

A single class level 9 character would have +3 for the Poor Save +6 for the Good Save. So this characters saves are quite good, as typical for multiclassing.

10B2A1U5M1F1: SAD+1d6, Rogue's Edge
11B2A1U5M1F1Cavalier1: Challenge, Order, Tactician, Paired Opportunist, Spring Attack, BAB+7

Snake Fang awards an Attack of Opportunity whenever you are attacked and missed, that makes it an Attack of Opportunity hair trigger, and now this character gives out Attacks of Opportunity!

12B2A1U5M1F1C1Inquisitor1: Judgement, Stern Gaze, Monster Lore
13B2A1U5M1F1C1I2: Cunning Initiative, Tracking, Circling Mongoose, BAB+8

This character already has 2 weapon fighting in the form of Brawler's Flurry, and gets 3 Attacks/round as a Full Attack, and he still gets the bonus attacks from Panther/Snake Style.

14B2A1U5M1F1C1I3: Solo Tactics, Broken Wing Gambit, BAB+9

BWG will give him a AoO whenever he is attacked. Snake Fang gives him an AoO whenever he is Missed, and he gives out Attacks of Opportunity by the shovelful!

15B2A1U5M1F1C1I4: Judgement 2/day, Knockout Artist, BAB+10
16B2A1U5M1F1C1I5: Bane, Discern Lies

His Sneak Attack Damage is only 4d6 at this point, Knockout Artist makes it 4d6+4, Bane adds another 2d6. Still, the number of attacks/round should be quite high, and again between Broken Wing Gambit, Snake Fang, Circling Mongoose, and Panther Claw, that should run into a lot of Attacks for a lot of Damage.

17B2A1U5M1F2I5: Bravery +1, Weapon Focus and Specialization Unarmed Strike, BAB+11
18B2A1U5M1F3I5: Armor Training +1, BAB+12
19B2A1U5M1F4I5: Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Precise Strike, BAB+13
20B2A1U5M1F5I5 Weapon Training+1, BAB+14,

This looks like a lot of fun. I know the OP isn't any longer interested in changing his build, but I wanted to post it by way of saying thanks for the inspiration.

Slim Jim wrote:
Rogue Fact Checker wrote:
As a rogue, you're getting pretty close to the point where Two-Weapon Fighting falls off really hard so you may want to consider retraining out of those and trying the Dirty Trick route.


Keep TWF (but ITWF is unnecessary). Get rid of Dodge, Mobility, and Uncanny Tumble -- that saves three or four feats right there. (Dear rogues everywhere: stop acrobating through threatened zones! That's how you get killed. More fun: finding ways to make feinting work. Equipment: Varisian dancing scarves. Multilclass a bit of Brawler for flurrying with a single weapon, getting TWF without the feat, and access to Feinting Flurry.)

Actually, I was just inspired by Canny Tumble and Circling Mongoose to improve my Goblin build that does exactly what you said not to!

I do multiclass a bit with Brawler and get Brawler's Flurry.

I'm intending to post it later, since this thread gave me the inspiration.

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