Agent Carter


Television

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I thought this show should have it's own thread rather than sharing with AoS.
Discuss.


Enjoyed it quite a bit. Some of the imagery in the pilot was a little forced (specifically, having Peggy in a red, white, and blue outfit walking down the street where everyone else was wearing neutral colors), but that's just a minor and fairly isolated stylistic thing that stuck out to me.

Some interesting Easter eggs, too: Anton Vanko, Hugh Jones and Roxxon.

Some of the characters so far don't seem to be given much to do (notably the male SSR agents), but they put in solid performances that really give depth to somewhat shallow roles, and there are just enough hints in the writing in these two episodes to indicate they'll be given more to do down the road (Agent Thompson is brighter than his initial chauvinistic appearance seemed to indicate; Agent Sousa has had some good moments, probably the most of the men other than Jarvis so far; and Dooley's actor plays the macho character with just enough nuance to see that he actually might have- or at least achieve- some admiration for Agent Carter before this is all said and done).

Hayley Atwell really holds the screen and is given a lot of fun Alias-esque moments to roleplay within the role to boot.

Overall, the show seems a lot more tightly plotted and end-game focused than the all over the map Agents of SHIELD has been in a season and a half already.


Given everything so far, there has to be a Leviathan agent in that group.

I'm actually rather suspicious of Agent Sousa; he's just in way too many convenient places at convenient times.

I'm also suspicious of the nice, friendly waitress who was always the only one to wait on fat-boy-who-was-part-of-the-evil-group; swapping out meals like that is a good way to pass info.


I'm suspicious of Agent Thompson, but for different reasons. I wouldn't be half-surprised to find out that all of his over-the-top chauvinism is because he turns out to be gay. Not that there is any subtext in support of that idea so far, but just a perhaps wild speculation about something they might do.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Marik Whiterose wrote:

I thought this show should have it's own thread rather than sharing with AoS.

Discuss.

I 100% support Agent Carter having her own thread.

... but I was told not to make one.

Dark Archive

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Apparently I didn't get the memo.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Marik Whiterose wrote:
Apparently I didn't get the memo.

I think you did the right thing.

I should not have let myself get talked out of it.

Shadow Lodge

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I myself see no reason why it shouldn't have it's own thread. People might want to discuss it, and it makes a LOT more sense to look for a thread named "Agent Carter" than to wade through a thread about a completely different show just to find posts about it. NOT having a separate thread would make no sense.


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Agreed. How many "Class X Stinks" threads get started on a regular basis, and they're all about the exact same thing?

Unless the mods decide its time to start trimming the chaff and suggest we consolidate, I don't see any problem keeping Agent Carter in its own thread.


I think the reasoning is more that the different elements of the MCU kind of bleed into one another. So the conversation tends to move from AoS to movies to now Agent Carter. Whose showrunners have confirmed that we will see threads from some other marvel properties pop up, including Antman


Which makes sense from a certain point of view, I'll concede, but at the same time isn't a logic that is being consistently applied, considering that every Marvel movie has had its own thread in the Movies sub-forum.

In any event, curious if anyone else noticed any Easter eggs in Agent Carter so far? On another board, someone mentioned the law firm of Goodman, Kurtzman, and Holliway, which is almost identical to the law firm introduced by Dan Slott in She-Hulk, which is Goodman, Lieber, Kurtzman, and Holliway- named for Martin Goodman, Stan Lee(ieber), and Jack Kirby(Kurtzman).


well...Leviathan was basically the Soviet block version of Hydra, so there is that.

I think the head SSR agent is a minor shield agent from the comics, most notable for strip searching She-Hulk.


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Holy...!

You're right! He was from the Byrne She-Hulk graphic novel! Good catch!

(That was actually back when Byrne was still readable, to me. Although the blatant sexism and titillation of that part of the She-Hulk GN was over the top, the rest of the story was pretty decent, and Byrne's FF is still- IMO- the best run on that comic.)

I don't know much about Leviathan- it's fairly new to the comics (introduced, I think, by Hickman) and I don't really read regularly any longer.

I wonder if it will retain its HYDRA ties, perhaps be linked to Whitehall, or maybe something else? I wouldn't be too surprised to see the scene with Whitehall, Carter, and the Howling Commandos do double duty in Agent Carter.


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I wouldn't expect a Whitehall appearance. He is in prison at this time... unless I guess they need to interview a HYDRA leader perhaps in relation to Leviathan?


Oh- forgot about that. That flashback was in '45, and AC takes place in '46.

Considering how she left him and determined to bury him away, you're probably right that we won't be seeing him any time soon.


I wonder how long we will have to wait for her to start what would become shield.


Dragon78 wrote:
I wonder how long we will have to wait for her to start what would become shield.

I think Stark is already laying the foundations. That brief conversation between him and Jarvis suggests he is already setting things up to bring Carter in.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Greylurker wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
I wonder how long we will have to wait for her to start what would become shield.
I think Stark is already laying the foundations. That brief conversation between him and Jarvis suggests he is already setting things up to bring Carter in.

But then the General brings Zola in, and everything goes sideways.


Greylurker wrote:
I think Stark is already laying the foundations. That brief conversation between him and Jarvis suggests he is already setting things up to bring Carter in.

I think you're right. While we're supposed to believe that conversation with Stark and Jarvis was sinister, I think it's just as you say.

It will be interesting to see, though, whether it happens by the end of the 8 episodes, or if they will put it off until a possible second series.


Actually Agent Carter joins SHIELD in a Marvel One-Shot. I wondering if they will use that...or just ignore it's existence.

Sovereign Court

Lord Fyre wrote:
Greylurker wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
I wonder how long we will have to wait for her to start what would become shield.
I think Stark is already laying the foundations. That brief conversation between him and Jarvis suggests he is already setting things up to bring Carter in.

But then the General brings Zola in, and everything goes sideways.

It would be awesome to see Zola again.


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I loved that the actor playing the Roxxon scientist Van Ert is more famous for playing a different scientist.

Sovereign Court

I like that the men aren't useless though.


Agreed. I thought they were much more competent and interesting this episode than in the past two, where they were written a bit more bumbling. I really am enjoying the performance of Agent Dooley. I'm not familiar with that actor, but he seems to be playing his part very immersively.


Good episode, though I wish we would get to see more characters from the first CA movie.


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I'm guessing this now

Ballet Dancer = Enemy Spy


Greylurker wrote:

I'm guessing this now

Ballet Dancer = Enemy Spy

Just for fun, I'll guess she's someone Stark planted to facilitate contact or handoffs with Carter if necessary; Jarvis can't go upstairs.

She pretty much has to be one or the other. No reason to introduce her otherwise.


someone at io9 suggested that the Ballerina might be a graduate of the same Russian program that eventually would go on to produce Black Widow. Would make sense...apparently we are going to get some backstory for Natasha in the next Avengers movie.


Krzeanski's murderer was definitely a woman, that much is certain. The way they spun and walked away from the car was clearly not a man.

I tend to agree that the most likely suspect is Dottie the "ballerina," although I do like the theory that perhaps she's a red herring (ha! Red for Russian!) and is actually a plant by Stark due to Peggy living in women's only housing.

Of course, if true, that means that Angie the Waitress would probably end up being the villain, which is a little far-fetched, all things considered.

The "Red Room" theory is kind of cool, too, given Black Widow's ballet background in the Soviet Union.

I've seen speculation that people think Peggy is going to end up marrying Sousa or one of the other agents. That may be, but I really hope they don't end up going down that road at all, at least not in this short series. For one thing, I think a romantic story will detract far too much from the current plot and is just unnecessary baggage.

For another, I think it would be playing very contrary to the vibes of the series so far- they've taken such a strong female empowerment stance that it would seem a bit of a step backwards to then throw in a relationship for the protagonist. Plus, she's still grieving over Steve, and that grief is a big part of what drives her (as was pointed out by Jarvis).

It would also, IMO, detract from the Jarvis/Peggy dynamic considerably. I could potentially see them doing something with it in a second or even third series, but I hope they refrain from that here.


In Winter Soldier, Peggy said in a documentary that Cap saved her future husband in the same mission that they lost Bucky iirc.


KahnyaGnorc wrote:
In Winter Soldier, Peggy said in a documentary that Cap saved her future husband in the same mission that they lost Bucky iirc.

That's right! I forgot about that. Probably one of the Howling Commandos, then.

Still, I hope that any of that gets tabled for this series.


Cthulhudrew wrote:
KahnyaGnorc wrote:
In Winter Soldier, Peggy said in a documentary that Cap saved her future husband in the same mission that they lost Bucky iirc.

That's right! I forgot about that. Probably one of the Howling Commandos, then.

Still, I hope that any of that gets tabled for this series.

Or just a soldier attached to that division. IIRC, Captain didn't just save the guys who ended up becoming the Howling Commandos. I recall there being a decent number of other POWs present

Also why I don't think Sousa is the future Mr. Carter, since he apparently was a soldier in the Pacific theater


He saved the Howling Commandos well before that mission.

Scarab Sages

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I am completely loving this show. The episode last week was amazing. I hope they can keep up that level of good writing all the way through the series.

I personally don't want to see any romance in this. Maybe Carter might meet her future husband, but I don't want to watch them hook up. Let's stick to the action. I really want her to get a chance to show the other guys at SSR her stuff and make them stop thinking she's just there because she had a relationship with Cap.

Speaking of Cap, I want some more of the 'Captain America Adventure Hour'! Those are fabulous.


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Dire Elf wrote:

I am completely loving this show. The episode last week was amazing. I hope they can keep up that level of good writing all the way through the series.

I personally don't want to see any romance in this. Maybe Carter might meet her future husband, but I don't want to watch them hook up. Let's stick to the action. I really want her to get a chance to show the other guys at SSR her stuff and make them stop thinking she's just there because she had a relationship with Cap.

Speaking of Cap, I want some more of the 'Captain America Adventure Hour'! Those are fabulous.

+1.

I want this to be a full-time series. At the expense of AoS, if necessary.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

After watching the most recent episode (The Blitzkrieg Button), I am starting to feel that there is something missing from this mini-series.

But, I don't quite know what.

It just left a bad taste in my mouth.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

If I were the sort of person who looked for repeated tropes, I would think that the next-door neighbor in Agent Carter who is morally questionable and explodes into killing dangerous people with Mad Hand-to-Hand Skillz is resonant with Mellie (November) from Dollhouse.

Why are the women so keen on hoarding food? Do they all have men in their rooms? Is it something that one plans for, that one has special gravy-stealing purses?

What kind of game is Howard Stark playing? Why come back now, to get the McGuffin? His reasoning doesn't make sense. His reasoning for lying to Peggy doesn't make sense. Could could he have known that the morons in SSR's scientific division ("I don't know what it was supposed to do, but it destroyed my glasses") wouldn't have already pressed the button?

Last weekend, I put my finger on the element of the Agent Carter series that was sticking out to me. I didn't mind that the guys were sexist creeps. I didn't mind that the society was sexist. But it occurs to me that Agent Carter, who grew up in that environment is bothered by it, as if she had a 21st-Century sensibility about the whole thing. When she gets the assignment to get lunch orders, why does that irritate her?


First I think it helps us identify with her. If they played it completely straight, and she didn't have any problems with it, then there would be no-one to cheer for as it were (or maybe half-heatedly).

I also think we are supposed to see her as one of the first "modern women" of the time. Heck maybe she was the "First Avenger" - not Cap - avenging women of all the crap they had to deal with back then. (Or is that stretching it a bit?!?!)

Edit: Saying there would be no-one to cheer for is a bit harsh, on second thought. We'd be cheering for her, but maybe at the same time wondering why she puts up with all the crap.


Chris Mortika wrote:
Last weekend, I put my finger on the element of the Agent Carter series that was sticking out to me. I didn't mind that the guys were sexist creeps. I didn't mind that the society was sexist. But it occurs to me that Agent Carter, who grew up in that environment is bothered by it, as if she had a 21st-Century sensibility about the whole thing. When she gets the assignment to get lunch orders, why does that irritate her?

I'm going to pop some popcorn and wait for replies. This should be good.


GregH wrote:

First I think it helps us identify with her. If they played it completely straight, and she didn't have any problems with it, then there would be no-one to cheer for as it were (or maybe half-heatedly).

I also think we are supposed to see her as one of the first "modern women" of the time. Heck maybe she was the "First Avenger" - not Cap - avenging women of all the crap they had to deal with back then. (Or is that stretching it a bit?!?!)

Not the first.

There were certainly women upset about sexist work environments before things changed enough for it to be common. Right after WWII, when many women had taken on traditionally male roles while so many men were away fighting, it was fairly common for those being pushed back into traditional women's roles to be frustrated by it.

That's not quite her situation, I think, but not too far off either.

Dark Archive

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I think that it's the fact that she was on the front lines in WW II and is now relegated to the role of a glorified secretary back home that gets to her more than the rampant sexism of that day and age.


Looks like, with Dottie and the preview next week, we are definitely getting the origin story behind the assassin program that would eventually produce Black Widow. Perhaps the tie in with Age of Ultron previously mentioned?

Dark Archive

Dottie's role revealed


I'm wondering if she's going to be sort of a Frenemy. A Russian agent pursuing Leviathen from their end.


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Chris Mortika wrote:
Last weekend, I put my finger on the element of the Agent Carter series that was sticking out to me. I didn't mind that the guys were sexist creeps. I didn't mind that the society was sexist. But it occurs to me that Agent Carter, who grew up in that environment is bothered by it, as if she had a 21st-Century sensibility about the whole thing. When she gets the assignment to get lunch orders, why does that irritate her?

I thought this was a common theme of the post-war era. During the war, women had taken on more and more positions of importance. When the war was over and the guys returned home, those women were suddenly pushed back out in the cold and expected to just go back to the way things had always been.

You're finally being taken serious, and suddenly you're back at taking lunch orders. I totally get why that would be "irritating" (to put it mildly).


I really enjoyed this one, so much going on, can't wait for the next one with the howling commandos.


I enjoyed the episode and commented to my daughter that 'Dottie' reminded me of Black Widow. She said Black Widow wasn't that insane. Then I found this!

Scarab Sages

Chris Mortika wrote:


Why are the women so keen on hoarding food? Do they all have men in their rooms? Is it something that one plans for, that one has special gravy-stealing purses?

There was a lot of food rationing during WWII, and the war followed immediately after the Great Depression. People hoarded food when they could in those days. My mother-in-law, who was a teenager during the war, *still* hoards food as a result of that period of her life.

Chris Mortika wrote:


What kind of game is Howard Stark playing? Why come back now, to get the McGuffin? His reasoning doesn't make sense. His reasoning for lying to Peggy doesn't make sense. Could could he have known that the morons in SSR's scientific division ("I don't know what it was supposed to do, but it destroyed my glasses") wouldn't have already pressed the button?

I don't think we know yet what Stark's real motive is. Obviously there's more to it than what he told Peggy.

Chris Mortika wrote:


Last weekend, I put my finger on the element of the Agent Carter series that was sticking out to me. I didn't mind that the guys were sexist creeps. I didn't mind that the society was sexist. But it occurs to me that Agent Carter, who grew up in that environment is bothered by it, as if she had a 21st-Century sensibility about the whole thing. When she gets the assignment to get lunch orders, why does that irritate her?

Just because something is the status quo doesn't mean everyone will automatically accept it. If that were true, no one would ever have opposed slavery. Women got a taste of more freedom during the war, and some of them might have wanted more even before that.

Plus, we are talking about a tv show made in 2014. There's going to be some 21st-century sensibility in it because it's being presented to a 21st-century audience. The number of people living who were adults during WWII is getting smaller by the day.

The Exchange

Marik Whiterose wrote:
I think that it's the fact that she was on the front lines in WW II and is now relegated to the role of a glorified secretary back home that gets to her more than the rampant sexism of that day and age.

This is a very good point. In the first CA movie, Carter was presented as some sort of badass that the people involved in the project of creating CA were already trusting (it always irritated me, by the way, that it was made very clear that she is a good trusted woman of action, yet somehow nobody ever considered choosing her to be the first to be tested with the new super-soldier thingy - just one of the things that make that movie bad). So she was involved in matters, treated as an equal and relied upon.

The war is over and she is relegated to the role of "The girlfriend of Steve Rogers" rather than having her own accomplishments count. Nobody remembers her as a person or even a soldier, only as the love interest of someone else. Now she is treated as dead weight by her fellow SSSR agents. I can see why that would upset her.

Of course, these justifications are things that we the fans come up with. I doubt very much that the writers of the series have seriously considered it. Most likely they just wanted to give a feminist tint to the show and make the heroine more relate able. I find that these are the kind of things that people are willing to ignore or rationalize if they like the show, and present as arguments why the show is bad if they don't like it.


Lord Snow wrote:
Marik Whiterose wrote:
I think that it's the fact that she was on the front lines in WW II and is now relegated to the role of a glorified secretary back home that gets to her more than the rampant sexism of that day and age.

This is a very good point. In the first CA movie, Carter was presented as some sort of badass that the people involved in the project of creating CA were already trusting (it always irritated me, by the way, that it was made very clear that she is a good trusted woman of action, yet somehow nobody ever considered choosing her to be the first to be tested with the new super-soldier thingy - just one of the things that make that movie bad). So she was involved in matters, treated as an equal and relied upon.

The war is over and she is relegated to the role of "The girlfriend of Steve Rogers" rather than having her own accomplishments count. Nobody remembers her as a person or even a soldier, only as the love interest of someone else. Now she is treated as dead weight by her fellow SSSR agents. I can see why that would upset her.

Of course, these justifications are things that we the fans come up with. I doubt very much that the writers of the series have seriously considered it. Most likely they just wanted to give a feminist tint to the show and make the heroine more relate able. I find that these are the kind of things that people are willing to ignore or rationalize if they like the show, and present as arguments why the show is bad if they don't like it.

I wouldn't be surprised if they did. I haven't watched the show enough to know, but it's not that much of a stretch.

I'm also not particularly irritated that she wasn't considered for the super-soldier program - She really just wouldn't have been. It would even be hard, in a '40s context, to bring up why she wasn't considered. It just wouldn't come up.

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