Agent Carter


Television

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Yeah, the "one-time pad" comment really threw me out of the scene.


Lord Snow wrote:
Because really, how many Black Widows does one actually *need*?

I'm just imagining the Russian accountants going over the black ops budgets and pulling their hair out each time another recruit is killed.


Cthulhudrew wrote:
Lord Snow wrote:
Because really, how many Black Widows does one actually *need*?
I'm just imagining the Russian accountants going over the black ops budgets and pulling their hair out each time another recruit is killed.

Meh. Plenty of other war orphans to be had.


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Am I the only one who noticed the anachronism when the chief mentioned getting flack from the Vice President? There was no VP in 1947, as Truman ascended to the Presidency after FDR's death, and the Constitution at the time did not call for choosing a new VP. Sorry, my brain just works that way...


I'm willing to overlook certain historical inaccuracies through the "it's not our universe, but the one next door" factor, but yeah, I caught that, too.


I thought this show takes place in 1946 not 1947?

Shadow Lodge

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1. It's a world where a superpowered man who's face fell off led a Nazi para-technical branch of the SS, and developed energy weapons from a magic rock from outer space; and was defeated by ANOTHER superpowered man, who crashed a plane into the ocean, froze into a block of ice, and was as good as new when he thawed out 75 years later. It's possible that not all elections had the same results.

2. At that time, there were actually some people in the real world who continued to refer to Trueman as the vice-president for the rest of the term; as he had not been elected as President.

Sovereign Court

I guess US people would catch that. I had no idea there was no VP in '47


Kthulhu wrote:


2. At that time, there were actually some people in the real world who continued to refer to Trueman as the vice-president for the rest of the term; as he had not been elected as President.

You might have it right here. That scene threw me, not because I remembered the history, but because it seemed odd that he was answering to the Vice President. With something as important as Howard Stark's technology possibly being in the hands of the enemy, you'd think the head of the SSR would be conferring directly with the President. He might be one of those that would't refer to Truman as anything other than VP.

The Exchange

Chris Mortika wrote:

One note in particular about the code-breaking scene:

"I saw this at Lechley. It's a one-time pad system."

"You think I didn't try a pad immediately?!"

The one-time pad is a technique for encoding messages, yes. It says that, instead of using a repeating key, the two communicants use up a one-time encryption.

As our friends at Wikipedia wrote:
In cryptography, a one-time pad (OTP) is an encryption technique that cannot be cracked if used correctly. In this technique, a plaintext is paired with a random secret key (or pad). Then, each bit or character of the plaintext is encrypted by combining it with the corresponding bit or character from the pad using modular addition. If the key is truly random, is at least as long as the plaintext, is never reused in whole or in part, and is kept completely secret, then the resulting ciphertext will be impossible to decrypt or break.[1][2][3] It has also been proven that any cipher with the perfect secrecy property must use keys with effectively the same requirements as OTP keys.[4] However, practical problems have prevented one-time pads from being widely used.
So, first, it's not a one-time pad, because the Leviathan agent wasn't decrypting his messages letter-by-letter. Second, if it were a pad, neither the cryptographer nor Peggy nor anyone else could decrypt it. The plaintext would be, literally, as likely as any other equal-lengthed message.

Yeah, the only way this would be a one time pad is if they meant it that all the letters had the same shift - it's the only kind of pad you can decipher. But, there are two redeeming factors:

1) The science in the MCU has always been wildly inaccurate - it's simply that this time their attempt at techno-babble was one that anyone with the most basic knowledge in cryptography could notice as nonsense.
2) It turned out later that the encoded massage was a trap - so it was meant to be decoded. Still, in that case, Peggy should have been suspicious - using a constant one time pad like that is so easily compromised that there's almost no point to bother, if you truly wish your massage to remain secret.


Chris Mortika wrote:

One note in particular about the code-breaking scene:

"I saw this at Lechley. It's a one-time pad system."

"You think I didn't try a pad immediately?!"

The one-time pad is a technique for encoding messages, yes. It says that, instead of using a repeating key, the two communicants use up a one-time encryption.

As our friends at Wikipedia wrote:
In cryptography, a one-time pad (OTP) is an encryption technique that cannot be cracked if used correctly. In this technique, a plaintext is paired with a random secret key (or pad). Then, each bit or character of the plaintext is encrypted by combining it with the corresponding bit or character from the pad using modular addition. If the key is truly random, is at least as long as the plaintext, is never reused in whole or in part, and is kept completely secret, then the resulting ciphertext will be impossible to decrypt or break.[1][2][3] It has also been proven that any cipher with the perfect secrecy property must use keys with effectively the same requirements as OTP keys.[4] However, practical problems have prevented one-time pads from being widely used.
So, first, it's not a one-time pad, because the Leviathan agent wasn't decrypting his messages letter-by-letter. Second, if it were a pad, neither the cryptographer nor Peggy nor anyone else could decrypt it. The plaintext would be, literally, as likely as any other equal-lengthed message.

Yeah I thought that was a bit weird. They must have just decided it sounded good and went with it.

FYI as well, I don't think it was Lechley. Given that they're talking about cryptography, Carter would have been referring to Bletchley Park, where Alan Turing (and a lot of other people) worked to break Enigma. And on that note, if you haven't seen it yet and have any interest in the history behind it, I'd highly recommend watching The Imitation Game. Broadly accurate in terms of what they did, though a lot of the more specific details are obviously changed for the purposes of making an entertaining film.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hama wrote:
I guess US people would catch that. I had no idea there was no VP in '47

Truman did not have a Vice President until 1949, his first (and only) inauguration after his surprising victory in the election of '48.

Sovereign Court

OOOOh I am starting to really like Da Chief :D He's a really cool guy.

Scarab Sages

Yeah, I like the Chief. Dude is pretty badass. I can see him even being the first director of SHIELD (if that's where this is leading).

And that Russian psych guy has become very interesting to me. can't wait to see what they do to further develop him.

Also, props to the writer's for the gratuitous girl-girl kiss.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

I suspected that the whole behind-enemy-lines operation was a ploy to insert the psychologist into the SSR. Looks like I was right, but I'm not sure how he and Dottie knew about each other.

And won't Peggy have a grand time, telling the SSR about the blood sample?


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Great episode, liked the "almost kiss of death", hope there will be a second season or second mini series.

Scarab Sages

sitting on edge of seat biting nails until next week


man I can not imagine watching this filled with commercials. We've been getting it off the Playstation store at $2 an episode. I can tell where the ads would be and I can't help but feel it would completely break the suspence of the show.

This is a great show with some fantastic storytelling. Hope we get another season someday

Scarab Sages

Luckily, I get a late start watching it (usually when it's more than half-way done), so I have a chance to fast-forward through commercials. Better than nothing.

The Exchange

Good episode. It doesn't really feel to me like Carter is in trouble, though - she really does have a very reasonable explanation fro all she did with evidence to back it up. Jarvis, interrogated separately, could back her up. People might be mad at her for hiding things from them, but accusing her of treason seems excessive.


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There just mad they gotten beaten up by a woman;)

Silver Crusade

Some of it could be explained. What I see as the problem is Captain America's blood and why she would have that. But now that I think about it, did she still have it in her possession when they arrested her? I can't recall now.

The Exchange

Xzaral wrote:

Some of it could be explained. What I see as the problem is Captain America's blood and why she would have that. But now that I think about it, did she still have it in her possession when they arrested her? I can't recall now.

Yes - she returned to her apartment to retrieve it.

What I think gives her a *really* strong case is the circumstances in which they found her - passed out in a hallway with a woman leaning over her. And traces of some knock-out drug on her lips (still slightly giddy at that scene).

And, she has a reasonable explanation for the blood as well - she was tricked by Stark.

Silver Crusade

Lord Snow wrote:
Xzaral wrote:

Some of it could be explained. What I see as the problem is Captain America's blood and why she would have that. But now that I think about it, did she still have it in her possession when they arrested her? I can't recall now.

Yes - she returned to her apartment to retrieve it.

What I think gives her a *really* strong case is the circumstances in which they found her - passed out in a hallway with a woman leaning over her. And traces of some knock-out drug on her lips (still slightly giddy at that scene).

And, she has a reasonable explanation for the blood as well - she was tricked by Stark.

I'd still be suspicious. They just uncovered the training camp for women. Who speaks Russian on the team? Agent Carter. Found lying in a hallway unconscious? Seems pretty convenient to me. The woman who was standing over here is missing now? That seems odd to, possibly an accomplice?

And really what evidence does she have in support of any of the things she did aside from Jarvis, who is not the most reliable witness to any of this considering his relationship as Howard Stark's butler. I'm trying to come up with some and I can't do so.

The Exchange

Quote:


I'd still be suspicious. They just uncovered the training camp for women. Who speaks Russian on the team? Agent Carter. Found lying in a hallway unconscious? Seems pretty convenient to me. The woman who was standing over here is missing now? That seems odd to, possibly an accomplice?

They have records of Carter growing up in England though, can't really suspect she spent her childhood in Russia.

Quote:
And really what evidence does she have in support of any of the things she did aside from Jarvis, who is not the most reliable witness to any of this considering his relationship as Howard Stark's butler. I'm trying to come up with some and I can't do so.

It's less about hard evidence and more about her having consistent explanation for everything she did. If she were lying she would get tangled at some point because the story is truly twisted. It's just not a lie anyone would come up with.

It seems like after a few hours for everyone to cool their head, the mistrust should resolve itself.

Silver Crusade

I pretty much agree with you thoughts on how it will eventually go, but still it could be enough to cast suspicion on her, which I think is what they're trying to do at this point. Keep the SSR aimed on her while the psychiatrist does whatever it is he's planning. Sure eventually they'll figure it out but by then it might be too late.


biggest problem of course is that they are all feeling hurt. Not just that someone they trusted seems to have turned on them but that none of them even suspected it. Emotions and wounded pride are going to be getting in the way of any logic at this point.

Shadow Lodge

I wouldn't say it was someone they trusted that turned on them. It's more like someone they didn't even feel was competent to turn on them has turned on them.

And while treason might be a bit extreme, she is actually guilty of having impeded and interfered with an investigation. That consistent explanation she has includes her breaking the law on numerous occasions.

"They have records of Carter growing up in England though, can't really suspect she spent her childhood in Russia."

Dottie probably has records of having lived in Iowa. Those types of records can be faked.

The Exchange

Good points.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

And also, we don't know that Carter still has the blood. All we know is that the container was still in the wall. Dottie's an expert deep cover operative, so she'd definitely leave the container. After all, why steal the safe if you only want the money inside?

Scarab Sages

Hmmmm.....

Spoiler:
Sorry to see Chief Dooley go. I was really starting to like him. And that smug Russian psych dude has just got to die.

But...WTF was that stuff in crate 17?!? I'm guessing it'll be something along the lines of "Howard was trying to invent something else and it went horribly wrong so he locked the results away in his vault but really should have destroyed it and now feels really guilty".


Seems to have been a gas that induces homicidal rage. Drop it on the enemy and they kill themselves for you. I gather Leviathan plans to hit Times Square with the stuff.


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Obviously, it's what was used in that 'battle of Finow' they keep referencing.


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Spiral_Ninja wrote:

Obviously, it's what was used in that 'battle of Finow' they keep referencing.

Yup. That was my thought. My guess is Stark created it (maybe trying to reproduce the Super Soldier Serum?) realized it was flawed and was determined not to use it, but then the general at Finow decided to use it as a weapon, resulting in Stark punching him when he found out.

Shadow Lodge

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The stuff in the crate was obviously G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate. Except they switched the percentages of those who simply give up and those who become Reavers.


I liked the reveal that the Leviathan Doctor is actually a major Captain America Villain...Dr. Faustus, whose "methods" were referenced in Agents of Shield last season.

The Exchange

How many episodes are in this show?

This episode was good.

Spoiler:
The death of the chief was kind of telegraphed in a smart way when all of a sudden there were emotional scenes about his family... still felt sad to see him go.
Action scenes with Dotty were awesome, especially the way she descended the stairs.

This show is starting to feel *way* darker than Agents of Shield. I like it.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The next episode is the last one (so 8 total).

I'm really enjoying it, and I'm torn about it ending next week: part of me wants it to keep going, the other is glad that it's going out on a high.


Do we know if we might get future seasons?

Sovereign Court

We probably will. At least one.

Scarab Sages

And they've done at least one flashback sequence with Peggy and the Howling Commandos in Agents of SHIELD. I'm hoping they'll do more of those.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

I'd enjoy a sequel set in the 1950, and then another in the '60s, and so on. It would let us se the history of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, through the perspective of Peggy Carter.

--

So, what do we think we're going to see in the finale?

Peggy fights Dottie: yes.

Dr. Faustus captured: very unlikely.

A conclusion with Peggy's friend Angie: brief, but possible

A conclusion with Howard Stark: necessary

A conclusion with the "Captain America Adventure Program": unlikely, but it would be nice.

Some hint as to whom Carter marries: by Word of God, yes, although I'm not sure how that's going to be squeezed in.


Has there ever been a reference to other captain Americas in the cinematic universe? It would be kind of fun but ultimately maybe confusing to see a cap replacement.

Sovereign Court

yeah there has been. In the credits of winter soldier, they put the US flag with him when Sebastian Stan is credited.


IIRC, the actor who plays Bucky/Winter Soldier has something like a 9 picture deal, so the rumor is that he will stand in for Captain America after the current version's actor is done.


Spoiler:
Chief. :( First time in a long time that a TV show hurt me like that.

I felt this show, like Agents of Shield, started slow, but once it picked up, it didn't let up. I truly hope to see more of Peggy Carter in the future.


Same here. It's a fun little show.


In the main, I like it, but sometimes I think the SSR agents all need to be slapped around until they become competent. I understand they need to be dim enough so that Carter outshines them, but I'd rather that be because she is extremely competent rather than because they are dim.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

These are the early days of American intelligence... they were probably still learning spy craft from the Canadians around that time...

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Quote:


Some hint as to whom Carter marries: by Word of God, yes, although I'm not sure how that's going to be squeezed in.

Oh, by the love of all that's blue, may that not be Jarvis.

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