Agent Carter


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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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As for Maria Hill, obviously we need to see more of her emotional side.


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I want a Robin Sparkles tribute song memorializing Coulson.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

DeathQuaker wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Damon Griffin wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
DC should be reminded that there is a smoking hawt actress (Bridget Regan) available to help revive their "cinematic universe".

Right, but as who, at this point? That ship has sailed for Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn, the Enchantress, Katana, Lois Lane, Mercy Graves, Mera....

Huntress? Zatanna?

I was thinking Pamala Isly.

That would be awesome. For heroes I'd vote Zatanna or Black Canary. And totally NOT just because I think she would look hot in fishnets.

Actually, given how amazing Ms. Regan is at fight choreography, Black Canary would be awesome.

I was also thinking that, since we know that Ben Affleck is making a Batman movie (and Joker/Harley are unavailable) that Bridget Regan as Poison Ivy (with an updated costume) would make a wonderful villain.

HWalsh wrote:

What would have been epic is kind of a rehash of the Shwarma scene.

Have all of the Avengers sitting around a table eating like, nachos, or something. Then just have Coulson end with, "And that is pretty much how I came back to life..."

Only to have Thor raise his hammer and say, "One question Son of Coul... What does this have to do with this place that you call Tahiti?"

Then Tony shakes his head, "Nuh uh, not buying it... What are you? Some kind of android? Robot? Life Model Decoy?"

Then cut to black.

That would have been 10,000 kinds of epic!

(But I still would want the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. team piloting the carrier.)

Set wrote:
Through the first season, Coulson was all-but waving a sign announcing his alive-ness to the world, even telling agents of foreign powers, so if Iron Man, who is able to track down Spider-Man in his alternate identity, and Thor, who is friends with a dude who can hear the wool grow on a sheep's back from across the gulf of space, and Captain America, whom, along with Black Widow, has peeked at all of SHIELD's classified data, don't already know that Coulson is alive, it's because they've all gone blind and / or stupid.

And Clark Gregg showing up in Age Of Ultron would have closed that plot hole. (And, HWalsh's suggested end bit still works.)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Even if some of the AOS team got appropriately namedropped (in contexts audience who didn't watch the show would not be lost) that would help.

Since this IS the Agent Carter thread, I feel this is an appropriate place to note that I feel like one of the reasons Agent Carter works better for me as an MCU sideline for me more than Agents of SHIELD (and I like Agents of SHIELD for the most part) is because it is set in the past. It immediately frees you from stuff like, "Well, why doesn't Peggy just call Cap?" Agent Carter was free to fill in historical gaps without being beholden to the current movies' timeline OR being forced to lampshade why it isn't directly connecting to something it should. By all means it can be used to set up or explore some long-term plots or concepts Darkforce, which gives it that connectedness without hamstringing the plot.

Part of Agents of SHIELD's troubles is that it exists roughly on the same level of threats to deal with AS the Avengers, and ridiculous contrivances have to be made (like apparently no one letting them know Coulson is not only alive but the current director of SHIELD) as to why there's never any intersection. Sometimes, "well so and so is not available" or "we have to keep this a secret" CAN work, but you can tell when the narrative is doing backflips to avoid addressing the obvious, and that ruins immersion--and yet further, AOS has to bend its plot sideways to accommodate the films while the films ignore AOS. I can understand the theoretical appeal of wanting to make it all connected, but it has often failed in practice with AOS (slightly less so with Jessica Jones and Daredevil, but they operate on a "street level" that makes it easier to pull them away--and reference other MCU issues on a broader note).

Frankly, I think the one thing DC has done right has let its "DCEU" operate in a multiverse (Snyderverse, Berlantiverse (aka Flarrowverse), Karaverse [also produced by Berlanti but on another Earth], and Gothamverse), so the shows and movies don't HAVE to connect (but can be connected if opportunity arises, like the Flash/Supergirl crossover).

On the upshot, IIRC one of the reasons why there's been such a disconnect is because one dude was controlling the films and another the TV... now my understanding it's all the bailiwick of Kevin Feige now, and so maybe some of these problems will be mitigated somewhat. I think AOS needs to carve out its niche more, and I think they need to be less afraid of referencing (briefly, appropriately) it in the movies---especially since AOS introduced the motherf$%~ing Inhumans and they're going to be dealt with in the movies at some point. I was disappointed there was not a brief discussion of the Inhumans in Civil War -- IIRC the tainted fish oil thing was a publicly known thing, so the Avengers and people like Ross should be aware of the Inhumans, and the question of how the Sokovia Accords affect other "enhanced humans" should have come up, however briefly.

What better management can't control is the fact that movie production and TV production operate on very, very, very different schedules. SOME of the disconnect (but not all) is very simply due to "well, they had already finished the movie script when we started writing these upcoming TV episodes." Nothing is going to change that.

Some of the creative teams are aware of what's going on with each other at least. IIRC there's an article on IGN where Markus and McFeely (the writers of Winter Soldier and Civil War) are asked about events in Agent Carter and they said THEY would be willing to try to wrap up some of AC's plot threads in ways that they could in their projects (which also means AC WAS setting up stuff that would impact the rest of the MCU). Whether that will really happen, I will try to remain reasonably skeptical.


DeathQuaker wrote:
Frankly, I think the one thing DC has done right has let its "DCEU" operate in a multiverse (Snyderverse, Berlantiverse (aka Flarrowverse), Karaverse [also produced by Berlanti but on another Earth], and Gothamverse)

Although there are rumors that they will try and shove the Arrowverse and the Karaverse together now that Supergirl is headed to the WB.

I'm am of two minds on the MCU connectivity. On one hand, I think it's pretty cool, but on the other hand, I do wish that they would put out the occasional movies / show / short film that wasn't bound by that connection.

I wish Marvel's animation department would get it's act together, that's really the one area where it SERIOUSLY looses to DC. I'd love to see faithful animated adaptations of some of the great Marvel stories.


DeathQuaker wrote:
I think they need to be less afraid of referencing (briefly, appropriately) it in the movies---especially since AOS introduced the motherf&*%ing Inhumans and they're going to be dealt with in the movies at some point. I was disappointed there was not a brief discussion of the Inhumans in Civil War -- IIRC the tainted fish oil thing was a publicly known thing, so the Avengers and people like Ross should be aware of the Inhumans, and the question of how the Sokovia Accords affect other "enhanced humans" should have come up, however briefly.

Definitely agreed. I can see most of the other stuff done on AoS not really being relevant to the movies, but the fact that the superpowered population just absolutely SKYROCKETED deserves more than an off-hand mention. Frankly, it would have made more sense as the purpose behind the Sokovia Accords than the "Avengers knocked down a couple of buildings while they were busy saving the entire Earth" thing.


Norman Osborne wrote:
Although there are rumors that they will try and shove the Arrowverse and the Karaverse together now that Supergirl is headed to the WB.

With the creation of the portals to Earth-2, and Barry's "tunnel vision" of Supergirl among others, Earth-CBS has already been established as part of a connected multiverse. At the same time, it was made pretty clear that the two characters had no idea who each other were (nor Barry of Superman) in their crossover. This despite the fact that Kara works in media, the "S" has been globally recognizable for over a decade. They can't have been on the same Earth. Barry explicitly stated as much.

Shoving the two universes together is far more likely to involve more frequent jaunts across dimensions than it is to mean the relocation of National City into Barry's universe.

That said, DC has merged Earths before, during the Crisis On Infinite Earths and more recently during Convergence. I really hope that's not what happens here, because it always creates a huge mess in continuity when it happens in the comics. This business of Earth-2 apparently being split in half (Cisco's vision in the Flash season ender) is worrisome along these lines, though.


Damon Griffin wrote:
Norman Osborne wrote:
Although there are rumors that they will try and shove the Arrowverse and the Karaverse together now that Supergirl is headed to the WB.

With the creation of the portals to Earth-2, and Barry's "tunnel vision" of Supergirl among others, Earth-CBS has already been established as part of a connected multiverse. At the same time, it was made pretty clear that the two characters had no idea who each other were (nor Barry of Superman) in their crossover. This despite the fact that Kara works in media, the "S" has been globally recognizable for over a decade. They can't have been on the same Earth. Barry explicitly stated as much.

Shoving the two universes together is far more likely to involve more frequent jaunts across dimensions than it is to mean the relocation of National City into Barry's universe.

That said, DC has merged Earths before, during the Crisis On Infinite Earths and more recently during Convergence. I really hope that's not what happens here, because it always creates a huge mess in continuity when it happens in the comics. This business of Earth-2 apparently being split in half (Cisco's vision in the Flash season ender) is worrisome along these lines, though.

There is going to be some sort of merger I feel. The CWverse regularly has folks from different shows pop into the other ones, outside the big crossover events.

Also um...with Berlanti in charge of the Booster Gold movie and Geoff Johns now co-managing the films maybe we can even hope there will be a loosening of the "NEVER REFERENCE FILM PROPERTIES ON TV" problem DC currently has.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Since this is the Agent Carter thread, while discussion of related MCU properties is at least vaguely on topic, we might wanna move serious discussion of the DCEU to another thread. I didn't meant to derail things with my offhand comparison comment (I have thoughts on the above, but not sure it's the best place). :)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

Spoiler:
If they don't use Amanda Rea, could the AIDA LMD be based on another deceased S.H.I.E.L.D. agent?:

•Victoria Hand maybe? But I'm not sure she'd fit within the current incarnation of the team

Isn't one robot Hand enough for Coulson to deal with?


Set wrote:

But yeah, *some* crossover between the TV show and the movies in the other direction (rather than having the show being subject to 'crossover of the week' syndrome from the latest movie outing) would be welcome, as long as it isn't forced.

Bobbi Morse/Mockingbird as an Avenger, for instance, could be one way to go. She's more interesting, IMO, than either Maria Hill or Sharon Carter, thus far.

1) I would love to see Mockingbird replace Black Widow. She's been in what? 5 movies? For as little as she really does, I don't understand why i'm so tired of her...

2) Jasper Sitwell has some established crossover connections. I heard he was in avengers, though I don't remember him there... but he was in two episodes of SHIELD with actual dialogue and everything... and killed off In CA: Winter Soldier. So that's SOME TV -> Movie connection.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

In fact pretty much the beginning and epilogue of Winter Soldier was Agents of Shield season 2.

For as little as she really does What! Over the course of a couple movies both Captain America, Iron Man (and possibly War Machine) would be dead were it not for the actions of Black Widow.


Mark Thomas 66 wrote:

In fact pretty much the beginning and epilogue of Winter Soldier was Agents of Shield season 2.

For as little as she really does What! Over the course of a couple movies both Captain America, Iron Man (and possibly War Machine) would be dead were it not for the actions of Black Widow.

Yeah.... she had a part, but it wasn't really anything that was UNIQUELY Black Widow required. Even More then Hawkeye I see her as the weakest link in the Avengers.

If she was replaced with Mockingbird, Agent May, Sharon Carter, or any other butt kicking female spy, the story would play out the exact same way. Avengers 2 her job was 'calm down hulk,' which used to be done by Betty or Rick Jones...

Heck, wasn't her 'previous encounter' with Winter Soldier done during a SHIELD Mission? That would have been a great chance to play up more of her Russian Spy background...

At LEAST she's started to use her Widow Bite bracelets more. I think there was only one quick zap in her first two movies.....

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

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She conned Loki into revealing his plan (feigning weakness and playing on his ego), proved her remarkable skills at being a double agent by DOING IT TO IRONMAN! (#teamcapthewholetime)

He called her out on it, and still fell for it. She is the consummate spy.

And she has a signature fighting style designed around fighting like a spider (crawling all over an opponent's body and using her own as an entanglement weapon)

I will give you that if they played up Mockingbird I'd choreograph her to mirror her opponent's fighting style (it's not like they're using Taskmaster)

She has a higher profile, immediate recognizability. People who've barely read Avengers know who Black Widow is.


Mark Thomas 66 wrote:

She conned Loki into revealing his plan (feigning weakness and playing on his ego), proved her remarkable skills at being a double agent by DOING IT TO IRONMAN! (#teamcapthewholetime)

He called her out on it, and still fell for it. She is the consummate spy.

Bah... have they shown a pretty girl yet in MCU that wouldn't have Tony... or any Stark wrapped around her finger. Fooling Vision may be something, but TONY?!? That's not high skill :P

Mark Thomas 66 wrote:


She has a higher profile, immediate recognizability. People who've barely read Avengers know who Black Widow is.

I would question that. Anytime people start talking about how 'non-comic' readers know all about certain characters... I remain very skeptical. Especially one who even in the comics is always a second stringer... She's had some high profile cases, but always as SHIELD or Avengers or even Daredevil's girlfriend... always as something else. She's never really been a solo character. not that any of the alternatives I named have either...

Scarlet Johannsen is a big name that people recognize... but that's mostly just for being her.

I'll never forget the theater when the Avengers had that epic circle shot.. Captain America/Super soldier, Iron Man, HULK, THOR! Hawkeye with explosive arrows... and... and... a gal with two guns. There was a LOT of laughter and 'what the hecks' being shouted at the screen.

Mark Thomas 66 wrote:


And she has a signature fighting style designed around fighting like a spider (crawling all over an opponent's body and using her own as an entanglement weapon)

/Blink...

/Blink...

Good heaven I wish that kind of thing was called out more!!! Whenever I saw it, it pretty much looked like those overly generic if cool looking moves that all the high flying women wrestlers do in the video games. A way to throw people around without the upper body strength to do it.

And while, I am pretty sure I've seen some other women agents use those scissor kick throws before... (Can't remember if it was May or Bobbi or even Sky..) I LOVE the idea that its a spider crawl for her.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

Watch this (ignore the comments) No seriously watch the whole thing. When watched as a progression you can see a signature including the use of ropes and chains mimicking web use of hunting spiders. Even her escape from The Hulk and the fight with Hawkeye highlight how annoying it is to try to swat a spider.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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phantom1592 wrote:


Bah... have they shown a pretty girl yet in MCU that wouldn't have Tony... or any Stark wrapped around her finger. Fooling Vision may be something, but TONY?!? That's not high skill :P

Phantom, you don't have to like Black Widow, but part of her skill set is cold-reading and manipulating people -- she tricks a f!*%ing Trickster God, which is a fact you seem to ignore upthread. No one else could do that, not even the other badass spies in the MCU.

Her infiltration and hacking skills are also repeatedly useful in Winter Soldier (including decrypting a file in a frikking Mac Store of all places). Yes, there are other spies that can do some of that too, but one of the points is she is the best, and it's important for narrative reasons she's the one that does certain things (like release the SHIELD files to the world, meaning she also chooses to release her own profile to the world -- someone else doing that and inadvertently revealing her origins would not hold the same personal repercussions).

I think a lot of what she does is awesome, and that isn't limited to combat -- and she is also just an interesting and human character with a crazy backstory. She often subtly helps keep the team together, helping the others focus on the task at hand (and yes, she fails to do that in Civil War, but that just creates an interesting arc for her--and part of that is she is one of the few people who realizes how personal things are for Cap and that he isn't going to rest until things play out). A character's contribution to a superhero team (or any team) isn't just what cool special effects they can pull out of their ass -- it's all about human (in-, "enhanced" or otherwise) relationships, and how all the team members know, interact, befriend, be-enemy each other are part of the movies' appeal, and you can't replace Widow (or Cap or Stark etc) for another person with the same skillset because they don't have the same story, relations, chemistry, etc. The way she knows and reads and works with the team is just as important as her considerable skillset -- and as much as I actually want Mockingbird as an Avenger, that is not something she could replace (nor do I see her as a replacement for Black Widow per se). Now, does BW need to be in every movie? No.

Also, this is not a remark on you particularly but just an expressed wish for this thread: that we can discuss character likes and dislikes without pissing on other people's parades by expressing such things in mean or disrespectful tones.

In other news:

Dear santa, I want an all spy lady movie with Black Widow and Mockingbird and Agent 13 and the Cavalry and Maria and Simmons and also Peggy and Dottie in flashbacks. I will watch it, and I will mind control enough people to watch it with me to make it worth the studio's while, I promise. (Yes, I know this movie is not happening. Please leave Death Quaker in her happy place for now and save the "well actuallys" for people looking for an argument. Thank you.)

Quote:
And she has a signature fighting style designed around fighting like a spider (crawling all over an opponent's body and using her own as an entanglement weapon)

Interesting fact! Bridget Regan studied Scarlett Johansson's moves to ensure Dottie's fighting style would look similar.

Oh, look who I'm talking about again! *squeeeeeee!* DOOOTTTTTTTTIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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In relation to my latest obsession, something very WRONG just happened when I started a new game of Nethack (well, unNethack, but still)...

Dottie! (also if you don't play Nethack half of this will not make sense):

Welcome Dottie! You are a Chaotic Human Rogue.
#name monster
What would you like to name the kitten? Peggy

<insert wandering through dungeon level for a bit, still on level 1>

You see here a war hammer named Mjollnir.

((Huh.))

<waits for Peggy to walk over the hammer to be sure it's not cursed. She does, so it is not cursed.>

,

d - a war hammer named Mjollnir

((Well, if I try to wield it, it'll probably blast me*, but I've gotta try....))

w d

You are wielding a war hammer named Mjollnir.

...

...

...

((HUH.))

Well, the greatest threat to the world may not be Moloch's bid for ascension after all. I think Mojo's lowered its standards. Or has it???!!?

(* It wouldn't because it's neutral aligned, which I checked on later.)

Also, I think I need to see this in artwork....

ETA: I've of course already gotten her killed because I'm terrible at unNethack (the damage monsters deal is exponentially larger than in the vanilla game and I never account enough for it). Except she was killed via a bonesfile by a Dottie in a prior game who was killed by a mummy, so was Dottie the Mummy. So first of all, her greatest enemy is obviously herself. Second of all, now if the bonesfile remains, there will be an Undead Mjollnir-wielding Dottie running around.

I will stop these silly posts now, but that was amusing as heck and I didn't know who else in the world would appreciate.

Dark Archive

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phantom1592 wrote:
Yeah.... she had a part, but it wasn't really anything that was UNIQUELY Black Widow required. Even More then Hawkeye I see her as the weakest link in the Avengers.

Whaaat? Hawkeye is exponentially the worst, both as a character (since all the glorious snark and attitude that makes comic book Hawkeye such a fun character has been surgically removed and added to RDJ's version of Tony Stark), and as an actor (since he's a gaffe machine, only opening his mouth in interviews to say something either misogynistic, or stupid, or both). Thor's a close second. Big slouching gleepy pile of muscles and hair-care product, without an ounce of what it would take to play a millennia-old quasi-Viking god of war and thunder.

The *fact* that Black Widow, who arrived *eleven years* into the Avengers comic book, was a 'founding' cinematic Avenger, as opposed to an actual super-powered founding Avenger, like the Wasp, or one of the next generation, the Scarlet Witch, annoyed me, but I love what they've done with the character in the Avengers movie, and in Winter Soldier, in particular. (Her intro in Iron Man 2 was also pretty darn cool.)

And, topic, having there be *other* Red Room 'widows' out there, like Dottie, just makes it even cooler, because that makes for a built-in adversary for a Black Widow standalone movie (or Netflix series, or whatever, although Dottie herself will be a bit long in the tooth, and perhaps be more of a 'spider in the web' 'Madelaine, from Section' mastermind sort, if she appeared at all, leaving the direct fights more to younger recruits like possible Yelena). It's also fun that the 'widow' program goes back, and can be used in period films or Agents of SHIELD flashbacks or whatever. It's kind of a wasted opportunity, in my mind, that they won't be able to use other 'winter soldiers' in a similar fashion, since the MCU could always use some more lasting villains in it's stable.


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Set wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:
Yeah.... she had a part, but it wasn't really anything that was UNIQUELY Black Widow required. Even More then Hawkeye I see her as the weakest link in the Avengers.

Whaaat? Hawkeye is exponentially the worst, both as a character (since all the glorious snark and attitude that makes comic book Hawkeye such a fun character has been surgically removed and added to RDJ's version of Tony Stark), and as an actor (since he's a gaffe machine, only opening his mouth in interviews to say something either misogynistic, or stupid, or both). Thor's a close second. Big slouching gleepy pile of muscles and hair-care product, without an ounce of what it would take to play a millennia-old quasi-Viking god of war and thunder.

Hey! Hawkeye has powers. And they're pretty sweet.


Set wrote:
since all the glorious snark and attitude that makes comic book Hawkeye such a fun character has been surgically removed and added to RDJ's version of Tony Stark

I'm worried this will happen to Spidey as well. ESPECIALLY since they've decided to shoehorn Stark into the Spider-Man movie.


Set wrote:
The *fact* that Black Widow, who arrived *eleven years* into the Avengers comic book, was a 'founding' cinematic Avenger, as opposed to an actual super-powered founding Avenger, like the Wasp, or one of the next generation, the Scarlet Witch, annoyed me, but I love what they've done with the character in the Avengers movie, and in Winter Soldier, in particular. (Her intro in Iron Man 2 was also pretty darn cool.)

She may not have officially joined until the 70s, but she was a frequent ally back in the fairly early days of Caps Kooky Quartet, thanks to her relationship with Hawkeye.

So, somewhere around '66?

Dark Archive

Norman Osborne wrote:
Set wrote:
since all the glorious snark and attitude that makes comic book Hawkeye such a fun character has been surgically removed and added to RDJ's version of Tony Stark
I'm worried this will happen to Spidey as well. ESPECIALLY since they've decided to shoehorn Stark into the Spider-Man movie.

Yeah, I'm well past 'peak RDJr' and ready to see some Marvel movies that can stand on their own two feet without him (like Guardians of the Galaxy, or even Ant-Man, which mentioned him, but didn't see the need to use him).

I'll be disappointed if the keep tapping the 'let's make fun of our older fans by reminding them how old they are for remembering the Empire Strikes Back and the AT-AT walkers' well for their 'Spidey humor.' Har de har. Whippersnapper. Get over here so I whack you with my cane.


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Norman Osborne wrote:
Set wrote:
since all the glorious snark and attitude that makes comic book Hawkeye such a fun character has been surgically removed and added to RDJ's version of Tony Stark
I'm worried this will happen to Spidey as well. ESPECIALLY since they've decided to shoehorn Stark into the Spider-Man movie.

Still, I really loved how Peter was handled in Civil War.

Stark is a snarker, but Iron Man doesn't really have the battle patter thing going and Spidey definitely did.

Sovereign Court

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I seriously loved how he grabbed Bucky's arm without any effort, something that Cap can't do, and was amazed at the tech, while Bucky was staring at him in amazement :D


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Hama wrote:
I seriously loved how he grabbed Bucky's arm without any effort, something that Cap can't do, and was amazed at the tech, while Bucky was staring at him in amazement :D

One of my favorite bits as well.

And, of course..."His friend was HUGE."


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Mark Thomas 66 wrote:
And she has a signature fighting style designed around fighting like a spider (crawling all over an opponent's body and using her own as an entanglement weapon)

Not to mention the instant distraction factor of having her legs around your neck. Brain freeze!

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

thejeff wrote:
Norman Osborne wrote:
Set wrote:
since all the glorious snark and attitude that makes comic book Hawkeye such a fun character has been surgically removed and added to RDJ's version of Tony Stark
I'm worried this will happen to Spidey as well. ESPECIALLY since they've decided to shoehorn Stark into the Spider-Man movie.

Still, I really loved how Peter was handled in Civil War.

Stark is a snarker, but Iron Man doesn't really have the battle patter thing going and Spidey definitely did.

Yeah, given how Spidey was portrayed in Civil War I'm not too concerned with Stark "replacing" his sense of humor. His personality wasn't undercut in a movie largely about Tony and Steve where he is a side character, so I don't think it would be in the movie that is about him where Tony is a side character.

And I think the issue with Hawkeye being so stiff compared to his comics counterpart (whom I love) is more to do with Jeremy Renner's performance than Stark overshadowing his sense of humor. Hawkeye does get some flippant lines but they just don't carry perhaps as far as they should, and Renner grabs onto the moodier beats of his character more notably than the humorous ones. Hawkeye also kind of got screwed by being mind-controlled in his earliest appearances so we didn't really get to know him. He's had the least interplay/banter with the rest of the team -- and Civil War didn't help him either, as the way he yelled at Stark made him come off more of a jerk than I think they intended (at least IMO--I felt sorry for Tony). (Obviously they need to fix this by having him actually sing that song in Infinity Wars.)

Silver Crusade

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Hama wrote:
I seriously loved how he grabbed Bucky's arm without any effort, something that Cap can't do, and was amazed at the tech, while Bucky was staring at him in amazement :D

It's a bit of a blink and you'll miss it, but it's not Spidey's catch that makes his eyes go wide. It's when he starts talking and Bucky realizes he's attacking a kid.


Rysky wrote:
Hama wrote:
I seriously loved how he grabbed Bucky's arm without any effort, something that Cap can't do, and was amazed at the tech, while Bucky was staring at him in amazement :D
It's a bit of a blink and you'll miss it, but it's not Spidey's catch that makes his eyes go wide. It's when he starts talking and Bucky realizes he's attacking a kid.

There are a lot of elements being taken from Ultimates too. Ultimate Hawkeye wasn't nearly as cool and fun as 616 was. One of least favorite reinventions... But he was more cold blooded SHIELD wetworks then authority challenging ex-Carnival worker.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

He's essentially a sniper with a level of skill and perception that borders on superhuman in the movies. The perception is the big one, if you pay close attention you realize that Hawkeye doesn't miss anything.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Hawkeye needs a miniseries with Kate and Pizza Dog.

For you Hayley Atwell fans, here's a trailer for Conviction.

Looks.... shaky, at best, but I'd watch Hayley Atwell read the phone book, so I'll check it out.


hhmm...seems like a pretty generic "Scandal" esq ABA drama.


Set wrote:
Norman Osborne wrote:
Set wrote:
since all the glorious snark and attitude that makes comic book Hawkeye such a fun character has been surgically removed and added to RDJ's version of Tony Stark
I'm worried this will happen to Spidey as well. ESPECIALLY since they've decided to shoehorn Stark into the Spider-Man movie.

Yeah, I'm well past 'peak RDJr' and ready to see some Marvel movies that can stand on their own two feet without him (like Guardians of the Galaxy, or even Ant-Man, which mentioned him, but didn't see the need to use him).

I'll be disappointed if the keep tapping the 'let's make fun of our older fans by reminding them how old they are for remembering the Empire Strikes Back and the AT-AT walkers' well for their 'Spidey humor.' Har de har. Whippersnapper. Get over here so I whack you with my cane.

I think the "Whippersnapper" element was them just really double downing on the fact that this version of Spiderman is a kid, to contrast it with the past versions (which were all played by much older actors, and the Toby McGuire movies basically sped past the high school years as fast as possible.


MMCJawa wrote:

the Toby McGuire movies basically sped past the high school years as fast as possible.

To be fair... so did Stan Lee! Peter Parker graduated in #28 way back in 1965. It's one of my annoyances that they always want to put him in high school... when the majority of his time he was dealing with College classes.


DeathQuaker wrote:

Hawkeye needs a miniseries with Kate and Pizza Dog.

For you Hayley Atwell fans, here's a trailer for Conviction.

Looks.... shaky, at best, but I'd watch Hayley Atwell read the phone book, so I'll check it out.

Having the ability to get free Guacamole at Chipotle is a good anchor power for any modern superhero team.


DeathQuaker wrote:

Hawkeye needs a miniseries with Kate and Pizza Dog.

This. Or a Kate and Pizza Dog series with occasional appearances by Clint, since the MCU has pretty-much ruled out the Hawkguy version of the character.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:

Hawkeye needs a miniseries with Kate and Pizza Dog.

Having the ability to get free Guacamole at Chipotle is a good anchor power for any modern superhero team.

Between Clint AND Kate, they could probably get guac AND chips.

Kalshane wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:

Hawkeye needs a miniseries with Kate and Pizza Dog.

This. Or a Kate and Pizza Dog series with occasional appearances by Clint, since the MCU has pretty-much ruled out the Hawkguy version of the character.

You may have a point. Also because if they gave Hawkeye an elongated story, they'd probably kill off his wife and kids for shock value/gratuitous manpain and that's not a thing I need to see. So maybe better if he's a side character.

In Agent Carter news, the "Bring Agent Carter to Netflix" petition has reached nearly 113,000 signatures.

(And before someone brings it up again to argue, before they knew "Agent Carter" had been cancelled, "Conviction" had already been cast and Hayley Atwell said at the time she would do both if both got picked up. She's also linked the petition on her FB so I think she's down with it happening.)


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DeathQuaker wrote:

In Agent Carter news, the "Bring Agent Carter to Netflix" petition has reached nearly 113,000 signatures.

(And before someone brings it up again to argue, before they knew "Agent Carter" had been cancelled, "Conviction" had already been cast and Hayley Atwell said at the time she would do both if both got picked up. She's also linked the petition on her FB so I think she's down with it happening.)

Oh, if only there were some Infinitely powerful Gem of Time, that Carter could be tasked to retrieve from Hydra's/[INSERT BAD GUY] research division. In the process of liberating it, it would accidentally trigger, and bump Carter forward through time (using her subconscious thoughts) to the current location (the present) of Rogers. Oh noes, Dottie grabbed Peggy at the last moment and was dragged forward too!

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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:

In Agent Carter news, the "Bring Agent Carter to Netflix" petition has reached nearly 113,000 signatures.

(And before someone brings it up again to argue, before they knew "Agent Carter" had been cancelled, "Conviction" had already been cast and Hayley Atwell said at the time she would do both if both got picked up. She's also linked the petition on her FB so I think she's down with it happening.)

Oh, if only there were some Infinitely powerful Gem of Time, that Carter could be tasked to retrieve from Hydra's/[INSERT BAD GUY] research division. In the process of liberating it, it would accidentally trigger, and bump Carter forward through time (using her subconscious thoughts) to the current location (the present) of Rogers. Oh noes, Dottie grabbed Peggy at the last moment and was dragged forward too!

My only issue with that scenario is that Steve and Peggy have finally moved on (sort of in the case of Steve) WRT each other, and it would make it hella awkward. Which, mind, might be a gold mine for drama, but I really really really really want for Steve to stop living in the past. I have a fundamental need to see people work through grief and not wallow in it (that theme is why I loved season 1 of Agent Carter, seeing her work through her grief through the season to a natural feeling moment where she decided to move on was wonderful) and s!!% keeps happening to Steve that makes it very difficult for him to move forward in his life.

Of course, I'm sure Dottie would be happy to interf- assist with the healthy management of expectations.

Steve: Peggy, I-
Dottie: MINE.
Peggy: Dottie stop-
Steve: Who is-
Dottie: You died. *Widow-wraps herself around Peggy.* MINE NOW.

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DeathQuaker wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:

In Agent Carter news, the "Bring Agent Carter to Netflix" petition has reached nearly 113,000 signatures.

(And before someone brings it up again to argue, before they knew "Agent Carter" had been cancelled, "Conviction" had already been cast and Hayley Atwell said at the time she would do both if both got picked up. She's also linked the petition on her FB so I think she's down with it happening.)

Oh, if only there were some Infinitely powerful Gem of Time, that Carter could be tasked to retrieve from Hydra's/[INSERT BAD GUY] research division. In the process of liberating it, it would accidentally trigger, and bump Carter forward through time (using her subconscious thoughts) to the current location (the present) of Rogers. Oh noes, Dottie grabbed Peggy at the last moment and was dragged forward too!

My only issue with that scenario is that Steve and Peggy have finally moved on (sort of in the case of Steve) WRT each other, and it would make it hella awkward. Which, mind, might be a gold mine for drama, but I really really really really want for Steve to stop living in the past. I have a fundamental need to see people work through grief and not wallow in it (that theme is why I loved season 1 of Agent Carter, seeing her work through her grief through the season to a natural feeling moment where she decided to move on was wonderful) and s!~$ keeps happening to Steve that makes it very difficult for him to move forward in his life.

Of course, I'm sure Dottie would be happy to interf- assist with the healthy management of expectations.

Steve: Peggy, I-
Dottie: MINE.
Peggy: Dottie stop-
Steve: Who is-
Dottie: You died. *Widow-wraps herself around Peggy.* MINE NOW.

I keep imagining out this scenario and the more I do, the more it's from the perspective of a quietly-watching, popcorn-munching Natasha.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
DeathQuaker wrote:
And I think the issue with Hawkeye being so stiff compared to his comics counterpart (whom I love) is more to do with Jeremy Renner's performance than Stark overshadowing his sense of humor. Hawkeye does get some flippant lines but they just don't carry perhaps as far as they should, and Renner grabs onto the moodier beats of his character more notably than the humorous ones. Hawkeye also kind of got screwed by being mind-controlled in his earliest appearances so we didn't really get to know him. He's had the least interplay/banter with the rest of the team -- and Civil War didn't help him either, as the way he yelled at Stark made him come off more of a jerk than I think they intended (at least IMO--I felt sorry for Tony). (Obviously they need to fix this by having him actually sing that song in Infinity Wars.)

I like the movies Hawkeye, he has a dry wit that's different than the comics but its better than the over-the-top obnoxiouness that Stark sometimes slips into. And I thought the exchange with Stark was great, although I'm I'm on Team Cap so I could be biased. ;-)

And I hope if we ever get a Hawkeye story, that they never do the My Life as a Weapon books, a seriously disappointing and boring series to read.


Callous Jack wrote:


And I hope if we ever get a Hawkeye story, that they never do the My Life as a Weapon books, a seriously disappointing and boring series to read.

I was with you for the first part, but then you slipped into crazy town. :P

More seriously, I love Matt Fraction's run on Hawkeye (I'm not a fan of the art, but the writing is excellent, IMO.)

Of course, I have an artist friend who can't believe I don't appreciate Aja's art, so obviously, different tastes and all that.

I like the movie Hawkeye, even though he's different than the 616 Hawkeye (which is understandable, since the MCU is closer to the now-defunct Ultimate universe than the classic Marvel universe). He still has plenty of wit (his dealings with Quicksilver in AoU were hilarious) and he's definitely less of a mess in his personal life than classic Hawkeye. Though the latter makes for some entertaining reading, too.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

I'm definitely down with Widow-wrap being an official term.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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CallousJack, you're right, there are especially in the earlier movies moments his wit pays off. Perhaps there's an inconsistency--and again, part of the issue is that we don't really get to know him until after he shows up a couple times. I still personally feel he was off in CW (I'm on Team Everybody For F+%#'s Sake Talk To Each Other, You Morons), but obviously YMMV, and I will give him credit for referencing Robert Downey Jr.'s album. Perhaps Hawkeye has a subtle version of Deadpool's 4th wall breaking power (along with his guacamole obtaining gifts).

I LOVED LOVED LOVED Fraction's Hawkeye (and I liked Aja's art). It was one of the few comics I read starring a dude (though of course I also liked Kate in it). ;) I really like Clint as depicted in this series. The newer Hawkeye series (with the creepy kids) I found weird and dropped.

Mark Thomas 66 wrote:
I'm definitely down with Widow-wrap being an official term.

Along with Widow-jump, Widow-fall, Widow-kick, and Widow-Snark, it is definitely an official and legit superpower.

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I also love the fact that Hawkeye is the consummate professional to the point that Nat and Fury were the only ones that knew he had a family. It also makes Nat's refusal to give up on him in the first movie that much stronger since she would probably have been envisioning having to make the Casualty notification and look them in the eye.

You also realize how much of a badass Clint is when you consider he's the person waiting on the kill order to put down Thor.

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Mark Thomas 66 wrote:

I also love the fact that Hawkeye is the consummate professional to the point that Nat and Fury were the only ones that knew he had a family. It also makes Nat's refusal to give up on him in the first movie that much stronger since she would probably have been envisioning having to make the Casualty notification and look them in the eye.

You also realize how much of a badass Clint is when you consider he's the person waiting on the kill order to put down Thor.

Good points all!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
DeathQuaker wrote:
I LOVED LOVED LOVED Fraction's Hawkeye (and I liked Aja's art). It was one of the few comics I read starring a dude (though of course I also liked Kate in it). ;) I really like Clint as depicted in this series. The newer Hawkeye series (with the creepy kids) I found weird and dropped.

It's been a while, so I don't remember the details of why I didn't like it, although I do remember thinking that Hawkeye was portrayed as a listless loser/slacker and found it annoying. Aja's art...is fine. I don't feel strongly about it one way or another.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I remember there was a part where he gets a bit broody and seems to sit around and do nothing but mope for a bit, but IIRC there was good reason for it. He works through an arc though--he doesn't just stay listless (also IIRC--it's also been awhile since I read it). I know it ended with me feeling generally much fonder for him, and if all he did was sit around and brood that would not have made me endeared to him.

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So, in today's department of DeathQuaker-is-STILL-ridiculously-obsessed-with-Agent-Carter-and-expressing -it-in-the-silliest-ways-possible:

I've decided I want to run a dessert cafe (in the dreamscape of my mind, not IRL), and all of the dishes will be named after Agent Carter "ships." E.g., "the Peggysous," the "Cartinelli," etc. I'm still coming up with what the food would actually be, but I know that the Peggysous will basically just be vanilla layered on vanilla, and the Carterwood will involve devil's food cake and have the tag line, "It'll probably kill you, but it's worth it."

Whatever the Ana/Edwin thing would be called, I'm thinking a cross between Hungarian and English trifle. Omnom.

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