I rolled a 4 for an ability, where would you put it?


Advice

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Play a goblin and put it in Dexterity?


For all the oracle advice, one I didn't see (though I could easily have missed it): make a black-blood oracle, put it in DEX, and never take any ranks in DEX-related skills (unless you choose the Wisdom Made Flesh trait and make the one skill WIS-based instead).

This thread may help with eliminating DEX.

Now, that said, there are a lot of great options that have been mentioned here, so far, too, from CON for "Hard Mode" to STR for the caste-ness of it all.

Putting it into CON definitely lends itself toward seeking undeath; if you go with a caster, this could be a great reason to seek that route. It even (to some extent) fits the theme of the AP. I'd suggest heavily investing into Unguent of Timelessness and Embalming Fluids. Then acquire your Undeath of Choice (probably Juju Zpmbie?) and apply liberally to everything. Now you have a well-preserved corpse that will look great for a really long time! Maybe even a Gentle Repose effect (there is Lore, probably in Forgotten Realms, of liches that keep themselves looking healthy by the Gentle Repose spell! but it might prevent one from becoming an Undead? I don't recall right now, which is why I first recommended to Unguent)?

Of course, if you wanted to be silly/hardcore awesome about it, play a Very Old half-Orc, get a -3 to CON (and other physical scores, with a +2 to mental scores), buck for/try to survive long enough for a reincarnation or three (remember: they cost money, so save up!) to get to a young adult body of a nice race of some sort, and get those -3 back while maintaining your +2s. Then, once you're a young, good-looking stud, go for the undead route as outlined above. This is especially potent if you're a CHA-based caster.

Heck, before raising you, use a Sculpt Corpse spell to get the physique and appearance you've always wanted!

... or go with the fighter. That could be fun, too. But have a backup character, regardless. Not with the intent to play them, but so you don't have to grind the group to a halt if you die. You can even introduce him when you introduce your other character: a strong friend who wants to go on an adventure, but isn't quite ready to, just yet. He can later be captured, or, regretful, follow the party, so he arrives shortly after his friend dies, and he wants to complete his life's goal for him (or something: come up with a story that works for you and the GM).

But regardless, have fun, first with this character! and then, if it comes to it (but don't force it!) with another character.

Also, vet everything with your GM, first.

(Also, also, you can go the undead route, even as a martial: I'd still recommend the Juju Zombie in that case. Lich would be great, of course, but they're "always evil, while Juju zombies were introduced with a - admittedly reconnect out of existence - oracle archetype that can create non-evil undead: the Juju oracle. If your character is of Mwangi and Osirisni mixed heritage, this could be a great role-playing hook for a caster or a martial: seeking to become an eternal <guardian/warrior/crusader/devotee/student/magical force> that honors his ancestral ways.)

Enjoy, regardless!


I like the freedom of being able to make the PC I want using point buy, but in many groups demanding to use point buy instead of rolled stats would just get you branded as a wimp or heretic.

Anyhow, there are a bunch of very playable options with a 4 stat, so refusing to use it or committing PC suicide in search of better rolls seems unnecessary. At least you didn't have to roll for stats in order. That's when the dice really take over and tell you what sort of PC you're going to play.


im going to resurrect this post with a very specific intention, i want to know what you chose, or if you've even chosen anything. OP if you happen to see this pop back up let us know, and if its awhile before you see it again let us know how it went!

Shadow Lodge

Fifo wrote:
It looks like we will play Mummy's Mask. I did roll 4d6 drop lowest, man. A 2 1 1 1, right off the bat. I can only think of int or cha, but both seem risky with Mummy's curses and such. I rolled my race, half orc, and I have a 15 high score, a 17 does sound nice with the +2. but should I raise up the 4 to a 6, or keep the 4 and just where would I put the thing.

sounds like a caster with a 4 str to me

If you go with shoring up the 4 into a 6 go martial, but the idea of a 4 str half Orc sounds too amusing to resist for me


Con.

Then you die fast and get to roll a new character.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

There is one variation of Rolled stats that I do like. Every player rolls a set of 6 ability numbers and posts their results. Then you can use any array rolled for your character. It allows for the "random fun" of rolled stats but allows everyone to still have some level of "equality" of a point buy system.


STR: If you don't need it, like a wizard or something.
DEX: Um... I don't know? Not really a good idea?
CON: VERY BAD unless you want to re-roll asap.
INT: Funny barbarian guy.
WIS: Addition to funny barbarian guy (this is by far the easiest and funniest dump-stat to RP).
CHA: If you read:

Charisma wrote:
[...]A character with a Charisma score of 0 is not able to exert himself in any way[...]

What I gather from this is: CHA is how good you are at expressing yourself. Low = you're not talk active and you're missunderstood when you do open your mouth. You're that weird guy who nobody really talks to.

If that's what you want, dump this.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I like the Con suggestion, but beware! DMs that like rolling for stats also often like giving level penalties to new characters!


I'd go with Strength and Synthesist Summoner.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Conversion Inquisition Inquisitor with the Infiltrator Archetype. Double tap your Wisdom for social skills.


Zathyr wrote:

In my personal experience, strength and wisdom are the most common stat drains, so I would avoid dumping either of those. What Mino suggested with the dex dump doesn't gimp initiative, but it does eat up the first-level feat on Noble Scion. It's not a bad idea. I've encountered some poisons and diseases that can hit dex over my assorted adventures, but with a decent Con it'll help those fort saves.

Alternately, put the 4 into Con and when the character dies hope you roll better. ;)

This would be my suggestion especially if youve already talked to the gm about rerolling a new stat block due to the four.


For those of you who are saying Con to die faster, no no no no no.

Put it in Str, and then play Kobold.


EsperMagic wrote:
Zathyr wrote:

In my personal experience, strength and wisdom are the most common stat drains, so I would avoid dumping either of those. What Mino suggested with the dex dump doesn't gimp initiative, but it does eat up the first-level feat on Noble Scion. It's not a bad idea. I've encountered some poisons and diseases that can hit dex over my assorted adventures, but with a decent Con it'll help those fort saves.

Alternately, put the 4 into Con and when the character dies hope you roll better. ;)

This would be my suggestion especially if youve already talked to the gm about rerolling a new stat block due to the four.

If you are a synthesist in your suit, the Str attack would hit the eidolon. It would be a very special case to be hit with it while out of your eidolon, rarer I'd say than getting hit in any of the other 5 scores. (especially after 4th level, when you can get Summon Eidolon.


I'd pick CON, then never go -8...I'm teasing but I've had several APs where that didn't happened. By the way - what did you pick?

Paizo Glitterati Robot

Removed a post. This kind of parallel to a real life health issues isn't appropriate here.

Silver Crusade

Option 1: put 4 in con, play a rogue, arrive butt-naked to battle and provoke by attempting to punch the meanest-looking foe around. Spend the rest of the 1st session rolling up decent stats. The chances or rolling a 4 again are minuscule.

Option 2: Show option 1 to the GM, and allow his good judgement to let you reroll your stats.


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Sebastian the third wrote:

Option 1: put 4 in con, play a rogue, arrive butt-naked to battle and provoke by attempting to punch the meanest-looking foe around. Spend the rest of the 1st session rolling up decent stats. The chances or rolling a 4 again are minuscule.

Option 2: Show option 1 to the GM, and allow his good judgement to let you reroll your stats.

And piss off the entire table because you knew the risks before rolling, and auto suiciding your character is not cool, period. A far better option is to actually try to make it work, with the understanding between you and the DM that natural survivability is not a sure thing. You may even surprise yourself and find that the character both survives and ends up being fun. I really don't get the people who keep suggesting suicide the character. A 4, while a challenge, is not an automatic death sentence, and doesn't automatically make that character subpar to someone who got lucky and rolled high. A good DM takes advantage of the opportunities and weaknesses presented by every stat array rolled, and encourages their players to do the same.


+1 to dumping Int on a 2+ skill class and using the favored class bonus to still have 2 skill points/level


This isn't that hard.

Intelligence.

Roll forever. Point buy never.

Well, unless it's white wolf. Then you have no choice.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I find Dex and Wis to be the easiest stats to roleplay a 4 score in. Clumsy or Impulsive can be fun (unless you go Kender on the impulsive).

4 Str/Con are the most straightforward of penalties (carry nothing or never ever get hit). Int is painful and - as a recent thread pointed out - tough to roleplay - I had trouble doing a 7 Int last weekend actually.

Good luck!


You could earnestly play a pc with con 4 but make up for the lost hp by taking the right feats and stuff.

Half-Orc (you rolled it I understand)

Class: Whatever you like
Favored class bonus: HP all the way
1st level feat: Tribal Scars (get 6hp and a second nice bonus)
3rd level feat: Toughness

If you play a caster take a toat as familiar for another 3hp at first level. But I'd suggest something with a good fort save.

Recommendation: Paladin. You got good saves and later, when the +6 bonus from Tribal Scars doesn't even out the hp penalty you got lay on hands to heal yourself up via lay on hands.
For RP purposes and to get power attack at first level you can start out with a level of fighter.


Throw it in dex and play a Zen archer. Make wisdom your highest stat.

At third you won't need coordination or dexterity to shoot people.


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Zathyr wrote:


Alternately, put the 4 into Con and when the character dies hope you roll better. ;)

Do it. Everyone will be expecting you to wimp out and put it in a stat that means little or nothing. Dump Con. Too bad you can't play a Elf, be Elric.

Play a Gunslinger modeled after Doc Holiday. "I'm your huckleberry." .

Tacticslion has some great ideas.

PS, in the one game where we still roll stats we have two alternate choices:

either roll one extra stat (roll 7 numbers) and dump one.

Or a 1 becomes a 2. I had a generous DM make ones become re-rolls.


Half-orc wizard with the 4 going into Con.


  • Take the half-orc alternate racial trait Shaman's Apprentice for the free Endurance feat (which should help for certain rare Con checks)
  • Take the half-orc alternate racial trait Sacred Tattoo for the +1 luck bonus to saving throws
  • Take the Fate's Favored faith trait to increase the luck bonus (so now you have +2 luck to all saves)
  • Take the Toad familiar (+3 hp)
  • Take the Great Fortitude feat (for +2 fort saves) or Toughness (for the +3 hp at 1st)
  • If it's an option take a second trait that gives a +1 trait bonus to Fort saves

Wizard:
HP: 6 (6 base -3 con +3 toad) {or 9 with Toughness}
Fort: +2 (+0 base -3 con +2 luck +2 feat +1 trait) {or only +0 if you went with Toughness}

You could also take a Magus instead (myrmidarch archetype so you can use your abilities at range somewhat) but certainly take Toughness since you wouldn't be able to get the toad familiar yet:
HP: 8
Fort: +2

Regardless, have enough Cha so that becoming undead becomes a decent boost (only works if you're evil).


Make a cleric, put the 4 in Dex. At level 3, take Heavy Armor Proficiency, and buy the heaviest, clankiest armor you can afford. You'll never need to bother with mithril, because you'll never have a Dex bonus, so you won't have to worry about the low max Dex armor stat.

If you can, then take the feats Lightning Reflexes and/or Improved Initiative to counteract some of the penalties.

Silver Crusade

Haladir wrote:

Make a cleric, put the 4 in Dex. At level 3, take Heavy Armor Proficiency, and buy the heaviest, clankiest armor you can afford. You'll never need to bother with mithril, because you'll never have a Dex bonus, so you won't have to worry about the low max Dex armor stat.

If you can, then take the feats Lightning Reflexes and/or Improved Initiative to counteract some of the penalties.

According to the logic in a now closed thread (where Intelligence was the offending ability score of 4), a Dex 4 character would constantly have to make DC10 Dex checks to walk without falling over, because if you don't then you're cheating by 'giving yourself a +6 to Dex' and avoiding the consequences of your dump stat, and this is completely fair because everyone has to make such checks the whole time but those with Dex 10 or more can take 10 so don't need to roll, and those of Dex 6-9 are given a circumstance bonus of whatever it takes so that they can take 10 and pass too.

Don't worry though; one thing that argument has going against it is that it's complete and utter b*%*%$~s.

[/rant]


The flippant answer is put it in con for a fighter so you can get killed quickly and make a new character. ;)

But I actually did that once with a gish and actually survived long enough to become an emancipated undead vampire. Eventually became a very powerful contender.


I would just like to point out that, as the first person in this thread to suggest putting the 4 into Con, I was joking when I said it.

I really don't mind rolling for stats, or low Con characters, although I've never played with a Con that low.

I did roll up stats once where ... I don't really recall the full array but there was at least one 4 and the total of all the modifiers would be negative. By 3.x rules that meant I could reroll, and I did, but I came up with a character story for Gimpy, the 4 Con commoner who died when a horse sat on him. My next set of rolls went to his best friend who would often mention his old friend Gimpy with fondness. For a character I never played, he wound up getting more character development than some characters I actually did play.. Great fun. :)


Put aside your unlucky roll for a moment. What class / role would you LIKE to play? Give us a few hints and maybe we can find a way to overcome this obstacle...


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Put it in intelligence! Just avoid belts, locks, buttons and other examples of technology.


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Fifo wrote:
It looks like we will play Mummy's Mask. I did roll 4d6 drop lowest, man. A 2 1 1 1, right off the bat. I can only think of int or cha, but both seem risky with Mummy's curses and such. I rolled my race, half orc, and I have a 15 high score, a 17 does sound nice with the +2. but should I raise up the 4 to a 6, or keep the 4 and just where would I put the thing.

Hmm...

Half-orc with a 4...

I'd do this:

Half-orc Sorceror Cross-blooded (Draconic (red), Orc)
Str 4 (use ant haul)
Dex >10
Con 2nd highest
Int 10+
Wis 10+
Cha 17 (with +2 racial)

All favored class bonuses into +1/2 fire damage...

Take lots of fire spells, and at some point the ability to convert them into another element. Metamagic will be your friend to make use of the higher level slots. Get pages of spell knowledge for utility spells, and otherwise buff the heck out of your evocation DCs.

The only other spells you really need are command undead and dominate person/monster. If you can't burn it, make it your slave.


In a recent game I have been rolling stats just because the GM offered it and the other players were concerned a low stat would ruin their character. I like to think of it as there is no unlucky roll, just new opportunities.

A 4 Strength rogue relying on stealth and crossbow shots.

A 4 Dexterity oracle with revelations to use other ability scores for AC (I play with a player who has a 7 Dex and a nature oracle). Your body may not listen to you, but you have always done well following the whispers the gods have left you.

A 4 Constitution wizard, witch, or sorcerer, play it as challenge really to see how long you can maintain abilities to keep yourself from being hit. With favored class and Toughness you can get enough hit points ot at least not die in one hit to most things at least. The frail spellcaster is a pretty common concept though.

A 4 Intelligence paladin. Since it isn't a skill based class you aren't losing too many skill points. It may be a bit of a cliche, but the unwavering paladin operating on instinct and intuition rather than anything else. He would probably break the paladin code at some point, but no one is perfect.

A 4 Wisdom paladin. Paladin gives you a number of will save immunities as you level up as well as a good will save and a bonus to any other saves you have to make. I picture this one as the opposite of the previous paladin, either referring to clearly codified rules for any questions he has or being very cautious is most situations just because he knows he doesn't quite get what is right or what is wrong in paladin terms.

A 4 Charisma monk. Not certain what your other rolls are but if they are decent enough, going monk will give you a better chance to resist most things that would reduce your Charisma further. Many other classes work for this low charisma as well, but this might be a reasonable choice as long as you opt to not punch mummies.


Play a small race and have a STR 2 gnome...


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Zathyr wrote:

I would just like to point out that, as the first person in this thread to suggest putting the 4 into Con, I was joking when I said it.

I really don't mind rolling for stats, or low Con characters, although I've never played with a Con that low.

It's not a bad concept if treated correctly. Several races can pull that up to a 6 and there are several ways to mitigate a 4. The key is not to make it an auto suicide if you go that route, but to actually try to make a playable character out of it. Even if they only last a session or two, it can still be a fun challenge if treated appropriately.


Fifo wrote:
It looks like we will play Mummy's Mask. I did roll 4d6 drop lowest, man. A 2 1 1 1, right off the bat. I can only think of int or cha, but both seem risky with Mummy's curses and such. I rolled my race, half orc, and I have a 15 high score, a 17 does sound nice with the +2. but should I raise up the 4 to a 6, or keep the 4 and just where would I put the thing.
DrDeth wrote:
Zathyr wrote:


Alternately, put the 4 into Con and when the character dies hope you roll better. ;)

Do it. Everyone will be expecting you to wimp out and put it in a stat that means little or nothing. Dump Con. Too bad you can't play a Elf, be Elric.

Play a Gunslinger modeled after Doc Holiday. "I'm your huckleberry." .

Tacticslion has some great ideas.

PS, in the one game where we still roll stats we have two alternate choices:

either roll one extra stat (roll 7 numbers) and dump one.

Or a 1 becomes a 2. I had a generous DM make ones become re-rolls.

Thanks, Dr!

You know, Fifo, I'm actually thinking about taking your character idea on, myself. Whether or not you do, I may just take up one of the characters I recommended previously.

(Or Doc Holiday. That's just too daggum awesome.)


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Fifo wrote:
It looks like we will play Mummy's Mask. I did roll 4d6 drop lowest, man. A 2 1 1 1, right off the bat. I can only think of int or cha, but both seem risky with Mummy's curses and such. I rolled my race, half orc, and I have a 15 high score, a 17 does sound nice with the +2. but should I raise up the 4 to a 6, or keep the 4 and just where would I put the thing.

I am surprised by how many people here just advise you to see it as a challenge or make the best of it...

For me, it just shows how broken rolling for stats is.

Because of a few seconds before the game even began, you will always be behind the rest of the party, they will have to carry you and you won't be able to contribute properly.

Does that sound like fun to you?

The grown-up response to rolling requirements is talking to the DM: "Look, this is not going to work. Can't we use the point-buy method so all players have the chance to contribute and do their part?"


Malaclypse wrote:
Fifo wrote:
It looks like we will play Mummy's Mask. I did roll 4d6 drop lowest, man. A 2 1 1 1, right off the bat. I can only think of int or cha, but both seem risky with Mummy's curses and such. I rolled my race, half orc, and I have a 15 high score, a 17 does sound nice with the +2. but should I raise up the 4 to a 6, or keep the 4 and just where would I put the thing.

I am surprised by how many people here just advise you to see it as a challenge or make the best of it...

For me, it just shows how broken rolling for stats is.

Because of a few seconds before the game even began, you will always be behind the rest of the party, they will have to carry you and you won't be able to contribute properly.

Does that sound like fun to you?

The grown-up response to rolling requirements is talking to the DM: "Look, this is not going to work. Can't we use the point-buy method so all players have the chance to contribute and do their part?"

Whether or not any character will be able to contribute properly to the party is almost entirely determined by the player (and the GM of course). Stats don't really have much effect on that.


Malaclypse wrote:
Fifo wrote:
It looks like we will play Mummy's Mask. I did roll 4d6 drop lowest, man. A 2 1 1 1, right off the bat. I can only think of int or cha, but both seem risky with Mummy's curses and such. I rolled my race, half orc, and I have a 15 high score, a 17 does sound nice with the +2. but should I raise up the 4 to a 6, or keep the 4 and just where would I put the thing.

I am surprised by how many people here just advise you to see it as a challenge or make the best of it...

For me, it just shows how broken rolling for stats is.

Because of a few seconds before the game even began, you will always be behind the rest of the party, they will have to carry you and you won't be able to contribute properly.

Does that sound like fun to you?

The grown-up response to rolling requirements is talking to the DM: "Look, this is not going to work. Can't we use the point-buy method so all players have the chance to contribute and do their part?"

HOW is it broken, rolling for stats, when MANY people dump a stat on purpose during point buy??

Is there a huge difference between a 6 or 7 and a 4?


JoeJ wrote:

Whether or not any character will be able to contribute properly to the party is almost entirely determined by the player (and the GM of course). Stats don't really have much effect on that.

According to this really cool book called Player's Handbook (or Core Rulebook), your statement seems wrong.

Because that really depends on the GM.

If both GM and players play D&D 3.x (including Pathfinder), then the stats will have a large effect, and a player with a 4 in an ability score, even in a not so important one, will be handicapped in many ways.

However, if the GM ignores the rules and focuses on storytelling (which might be a perfectly viable choice for some groups), then you might be right. But why spend money on rulebooks, then...


Malaclypse wrote:
JoeJ wrote:

Whether or not any character will be able to contribute properly to the party is almost entirely determined by the player (and the GM of course). Stats don't really have much effect on that.

According to this really cool book called Player's Handbook (or Core Rulebook), your statement seems wrong.

Because that really depends on the GM.

If both GM and players play D&D 3.x (including Pathfinder), then the stats will have a large effect, and a player with a 4 in an ability score, even in a not so important one, will be handicapped in many ways.

However, if the GM ignores the rules and focuses on storytelling (which might be a perfectly viable choice for some groups), then you might be right. But why spend money on rulebooks, then...

Let me guess.

when you play, every wizard has at least an 18 int and every melee an 18 str, or else they are "handicapped" and not worth playing?


Pendagast wrote:


Is there a huge difference between a 6 or 7 and a 4?

Yes. Feel free to look it up, it's shown in Table 1-3: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells on page 17 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, in the 'Modifier' column.


Malaclypse wrote:
JoeJ wrote:

Whether or not any character will be able to contribute properly to the party is almost entirely determined by the player (and the GM of course). Stats don't really have much effect on that.

According to this really cool book called Player's Handbook (or Core Rulebook), your statement seems wrong.

Because that really depends on the GM.

If both GM and players play D&D 3.x (including Pathfinder), then the stats will have a large effect, and a player with a 4 in an ability score, even in a not so important one, will be handicapped in many ways.

However, if the GM ignores the rules and focuses on storytelling (which might be a perfectly viable choice for some groups), then you might be right. But why spend money on rulebooks, then...

Your analysis seems to be based on pure theorycraft. In actual play, a character's ability to contribute to the game is a function of the player. Perhaps at the ultimate extreme - a player rolled nothing above a 5 for instance - it gets problematic. But just having one or two low scores does not cripple a character, much less prevent that character from contributing (which is not remotely the same thing, btw) unless the player decides that it does.


Pendagast wrote:

Let me guess.

when you play, every wizard has at least an 18 int and every melee an 18 str, or else they are "handicapped" and not worth playing?

No, when I play, every player should have the same chances to build a great character. This is a game, and we play it for fun.

In the real world, some people are born with disabilities, and will have a hard time in many situations that most people can deal with easily. I am not sure why this inherent unfairness of the real world should be simulated when I sit around the table with my friends to have fun.

Rolling the dice for stats takes a few seconds or maybe minutes, but a campaign can easily last a year or longer. Should some players be punished for bad luck during these few minutes for the duration of the campaign? I don't think so.

I am not even saying "you shouldn't roll stats'. But then please pick a method where no players are disadvantaged because of their rolls; e.g. all players roll, and in the end, and each player can choose their preferred array from all the results of all players. Or maybe, all players decide on a single array that everyone will use. And so on, there are many possibilities. And all of them are better than the situation where one player has a 4 and the other player has only 14s or better.


JoeJ wrote:
Your analysis seems to be based on pure theorycraft.

Thank you for your critique of my analysis. While flawed, I appreciate it that you took the time to inform me about your impression.

JoeJ wrote:


In actual play, a character's ability to contribute to the game is a function of the player. Perhaps at the ultimate extreme - a player rolled nothing above a 5 for instance - it gets problematic. But just having one or two low scores does not cripple a character, much less prevent that character from contributing (which is not remotely the same thing, btw) unless the player decides that it does.

It's not the bad stats, but the difference toward the other players. If everyone has a -3 somewhere, it' s fine; they all have to deal with it. But it's not ok for one player to have +2 as worst modifier and for another to have -3.


Well, we did recently have a thread where people argued (seriously) that a character with an intelligence of 4 has a good chance of being forever unable to figure out things such as how doors, keys, belts or buttons work.

Depending on the table, the difference between a 6 and a 4 could be a +1/-1 modifier, or it could dramatically impact how the GM/other players tell you to play your character.

Your mileage can and will vary.


Malaclypse wrote:
JoeJ wrote:
Your analysis seems to be based on pure theorycraft.

That's funny, since it's actually based on my experiences gained in many years of playing D&D.

JoeJ wrote:


In actual play, a character's ability to contribute to the game is a function of the player. Perhaps at the ultimate extreme - a player rolled nothing above a 5 for instance - it gets problematic. But just having one or two low scores does not cripple a character, much less prevent that character from contributing (which is not remotely the same thing, btw) unless the player decides that it does.
It's not the bad stats, but the difference toward the other players. If everyone has a -3 somewhere, it' s fine; they all have to deal with it. But it's not ok for one player to have +2 as worst modifier and for another to have -3.

What's not ok about it? You're not competing against the other players, so there's no reason to be jealous that somebody else at the table got better rolls.


JoeJ wrote:

What's not ok about it? You're not competing against the other players, so there's no reason to be jealous that somebody else at the table got better rolls.

Are you seriously advocating that inherent unfairness is a good thing? Or that not everybody should be allowed to contribute equally? Even if they don't, they should have the chance to.


It can be a fairly major downer to play a character with average (or lower) rolls in a group where everyone else have great stats. I've both experienced it and seen it happen to other players.

It's one of the reasons I favor either using point-buy, pregen stats or shared ability score rolls.

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