I rolled a 4 for an ability, where would you put it?

[CraziFuzzy]

My thoughts are anyone with a 4 in anything wouldn't end up being an adventurer, which is why its so hard to try to find a way to make it work.

I like the way the beginner box does rolled stats. It pretty much keeps the random nature, but ensures you don't end up with a character that is simply not fun to play (the game is SUPPOSED to be fun, after all).

Hero's Handbook wrote:

If your highest ability score is a 13 or lower, or if all your ability modifiers (Step 5) add up to +3 or lower, you can reroll all your ability scores

[CraziFuzzy]

The other thing I've done in the past with 'rolled' characters, is every player rolls three characters, and mostly fleshes them out. They come to the table with all three, and works together to determine which of their characters works best with the group. The remaining characters remain in the world as backups, or NPC's.

[Pendagast]

Anyone with a 4 in anything wouldn't be an adventurer?

Try this in for size.

4, 11, 17, 9, 14,13

Play a dual talent human

6, 11, 19, 9, 14,13

Arrange like this:

Str 14, Dex 11, con 13, int 6, wis 9, charisma 19

Make him middle aged

S 13 Dex 10, con 12, int 7, wis 10, charisma 20

Make him an Oracle at level 1
Why wasn't he an adventurer early in life?

Not very smart or wise, didn't realize his potential

With the previously mentioned half Orc
Make him a Middle Aged magus
S 13, D 10 , C 12, Int 18, wis 10 , ch 7

Why wasn't he and adventurer early in life
Framed for a crime (not very charismatic or social) and was in prison

My work is done here

[Lord Twig]

And some mighty fine work indeed!

Let me just add this. I rolled 5 characters randomly on the previous page. The last two stats arrays are 11, 16, 16, 15, 11, 16 and 14, 6, 12, 14, 13, 15

The first three players use their stats to make a Wizard, Cleric and a Rogue. The last two players like melee combatants so they both build one, an extra meat shield/damage dealer never hurts!

Player 4 assigns his stats:
Str = 18 (16+2)
Dex = 15
Con = 16
Int = 11
Wis = 11
Cha = 16
Player 4 picks a Paladin because he is able to put a good stat in Cha along with good physical stats. Puts his favored class bonus in Skills.

Player 5
Str = 17 (15+2)
Dex = 14
Con = 14
Int = 13
Wis = 12
Cha = 6
Player 5 has okay physical stats, but not as good as Player 4. Int and Wis are slightly higher, but Cha is way lower. Puts his favored class bonus in HPs to catch up to the paladin.

So player 4's character is just objectively better. Player 5 will certainly be able to contribute, but not to the same extent that Player 4 will. Player 5 can run up and hit stuff almost as well as the paladin, and then can sit back and be quite when it is diplomacy time.

So how is this fair again?

[Dannorn]

Lord Twig wrote:

And some mighty fine work indeed!

Let me just add this. I rolled 5 characters randomly on the previous page. The last two stats arrays are 11, 16, 16, 15, 11, 16 and 14, 6, 12, 14, 13, 15

The first three players use their stats to make a Wizard, Cleric and a Rogue. The last two players like melee combatants so they both build one, an extra meat shield/damage dealer never hurts!

Player 4 assigns his stats:
Str = 18 (16+2)
Dex = 15
Con = 16
Int = 11
Wis = 11
Cha = 16
Player 4 picks a Paladin because he is able to put a good stat in Cha along with good physical stats. Puts his favored class bonus in Skills.

Player 5
Str = 17 (15+2)
Dex = 14
Con = 14
Int = 13
Wis = 12
Cha = 6
Player 5 has okay physical stats, but not as good as Player 4. Int and Wis are slightly higher, but Cha is way lower. Puts his favored class bonus in HPs to catch up to the paladin.

So player 4's character is just objectively better. Player 5 will certainly be able to contribute, but not to the same extent that Player 4 will. Player 5 can run up and hit stuff almost as well as the paladin, and then can sit back and be quite when it is diplomacy time.

So how is this fair again?

[sarcasm]Player 1 rolls 15 on an attack roll, Player 2 rolls 10, Player 1 is able to hit but Player 2 isn't, how is this fair again?[/sarcasm]

The mechanic is fair because everyone has the same odds of rolling good or bad stats, the system doesn't favour anybody. In terms of performance in-game it's fair because both players have access to tools that can even or upset the balance. Player 2 could look at his low Cha and decide that if he can't be any use in conversation he's going to be an absolute beast in combat and goes Barbarian. Rage bumps his Str and Con over the Paladin's, he get's higher hit dice, etc.

Not having a range of stats that is as good as someone else's, or that doesn't allow you to be good in all arenas, does not make it unfair. How is the character who dumped Cha to 8 and had a -2 racial penalty any more capable of participating in diplomacy? Is point-buy unfair because it doesn't let you create a PC who's potentially good at everything?